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Wagster
12-26-2011, 09:37 PM
Discuss......

pavlov
12-26-2011, 09:41 PM
Rodgers.

Honorable mention to Peyton Manning. And Brees passing record doesn't mean much with THESE rules. If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.

MCSS1970
12-26-2011, 09:45 PM
Breeze? Call me the breeze? Great song.

DetSlicker
12-26-2011, 09:52 PM
Someone just got word.
qa9LNPwZIGA

rmj254
12-26-2011, 09:57 PM
Cool to see Brees get the record. He seems to be a good guy and is always in the top two or three QBs in the NFL. They showed a comparison to Marino's numbers and he is passing for more yards above the average NFL QB than Marino did in 1984. I was surprised to see that average yards per game weren't a whole lot higher than in 1984, either.

Staticbuster
12-26-2011, 10:01 PM
Cool to see Brees get the record. He seems to be a good guy and is always in the top two or three QBs in the NFL. They showed a comparison to Marino's numbers and he is passing for more yards above the average NFL QB than Marino did in 1984. I was surprised to see that average yards per game weren't a whole lot higher than in 1984, either.

This. Brees' accomplishment is both meaningful and astounding. Good for him and the Saints.

Stratobuc
12-26-2011, 10:03 PM
Glad to see DB get the record. He certainly deserves it, and I hope they win the Super Bowl. Go Saints!

Matt Jones
12-26-2011, 10:08 PM
It's because he played for the Chargers.

Both a blessing and curse...

7StringJazz
12-26-2011, 10:09 PM
I'm in. Great work from Brees. Too short, screwed his shoulder up and has become one of the top 3 in the game. Consistently. Congrats to Brees and Payton. They are surpassed only by Belichick and Brady as the most gifted coach/quarterback pairings IMO.

karmadave
12-26-2011, 10:15 PM
Congratulations to Drew Brees. He's one of the top QB's in the game and a class act to boot.

Lone Bear
12-26-2011, 10:15 PM
WHO DAT?
Congrats to DB and good luck Saints.

MCSS1970
12-26-2011, 10:18 PM
I have no problem with either Brees or Rodgers winning the MVP. They have both had amazing seasons.

goneracin
12-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Rodgers.

Honorable mention to Peyton Manning. And Brees passing record doesn't mean much with THESE rules. If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.

yup, its so meaningless everyone has done it.......
oh wait....

:sarcasm

gimme a break. Marino didnt have to face the defensive speed etc that players have now. the complicated defensive schemes, etc, etc, etc.
A person can make any justification for then vs. now but the fact remains no one else for the last 27 years has broken such an (according to your post) easily attainable record

Congrats to someone who is by all accounts a great guy, who conducts himself with class, and who helps others less fortunate.

:beer

MrTAteMyBalls
12-26-2011, 10:24 PM
As much as I'd love Drew to win MVP, Rogers had that locked up by week 8. Nothing can change that. That said, I've seen them both play and had a look at the stats.....Brees wins in my book by just a little bit. Rogers has had a great season, too, but which of these men will be remembered for their 2011 season? Brees will break the passing yardage record and the completion percentage record(which he already set) while throwing over 40 TD passes....all in the same season? Unreal. Saints fans and football fans will remember Drew Brees' 2011 season for many years.

Guitar55
12-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Rodgers.

Honorable mention to Peyton Manning. And Brees passing record doesn't mean much with THESE rules. If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.

Peyton Manning??????? :huh

Sidney Vicious
12-26-2011, 11:14 PM
I am a Saints fan and think Brees is great and hope he wins Super Bowl MVP but I think winning record and tds to interceptions make Rodgers the league MVP this year -

TNJ
12-26-2011, 11:15 PM
Congrats to Brees.
Future HOF'er for sure.
He got it done tonite in many ways.
I don't think he's MVP material at this time.
Look at Aaron Rodgers... He still has more TD passes than Brees this season and far fewer interceptions (both mentioned by our honorable Saints fan above) if that means anything. I give the edge to NO on Defense, which makes what Rodgers is doing this season even more incredible.
Kinda like Brady in that regard.

No mistake, at this point it's Rodgers/Brees/Brady.

S.
j

VoodooBlues
12-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Rodgers. Every other MVP caliber quarterback, including Brees, has cost their teams a couple games with multiple interception games this year. Rodgers hasn't done that yet. His passer rating blows away anyone else's. His TD to interception ratio is better than anyone else's. He has to work behind an average, oft injured offensive line. He also has to cover up for one of the leagues worst defenses, in terms of yardage allowed. And his team also beat Brees' team in the season opener.

jpftribe
12-27-2011, 04:50 AM
If the Browns can pick up RGIII in next year's draft, I'll happily nominate Colt McCoy....

smcgov
12-27-2011, 04:54 AM
seems like Rodgers and Brees are headed for NFC Champ showdown.......

TheGuildedAge
12-27-2011, 05:08 AM
I think it is Rogers too, but Brews is a great player and seems to carry himself with a lot of class. I am really glad he broke the record.

That being said it will all be for naught, as the Giants are now poised to rise like a Phoenix and win it all.;)

partytrain
12-27-2011, 05:27 AM
Great game/season for Brees, but don't get let the emotions of the last 2 weeks fool you. Rodgers won MVP a long time ago. Yards are great, but points are what win games. Rodgers has more TD's, better redzone percentage, and more wins. That seals it. And while Brees breaks the yardage record, Rodgers will be setting a new Qb-Rating record for a single season.

And the numbers will be skewed even more next week when Brees has to play the entire game hoping they can squeeze into the 2 seed while Rodgers will be watching the game from the sideline in the 4th quarter (as he's done in a couple of games now). What would his numbers be like if he was kept on the field for blowouts? (exactly like what happened last night)

pavlov
12-27-2011, 06:32 AM
yup, its so meaningless everyone has done it.......
oh wait....

:sarcasm

gimme a break. Marino didnt have to face the defensive speed etc that players have now. the complicated defensive schemes, etc, etc, etc.
A person can make any justification for then vs. now but the fact remains no one else for the last 27 years has broken such an (according to your post) easily attainable record

Congrats to someone who is by all accounts a great guy, who conducts himself with class, and who helps others less fortunate.

:beer

Give ME a break. The defenders can't touch the receivers after 5 yards, they can't touch the QB's. ALL the rules now are set to give the offense the advantage. It was a lot harder to throw the ball 20 years ago. The defensive schemes were just as complicated. And you want speed, go back and watch some clips of guys like Lawrence Taylor or Ronnie Lot. And I'm sure the 85 Bears defense was slow and simple to figure out.:rotflmao

Here you go.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread-defensivebacks/even-best-being-nfl-defensive-back-struggle

pavlov
12-27-2011, 06:35 AM
Peyton Manning??????? :huh

Do you really need an explanation?

partytrain
12-27-2011, 07:16 AM
Give ME a break. The defenders can't touch the receivers after 5 yards, they can't touch the QB's. ALL the rules now are set to give the offense the advantage. It was a lot harder to throw the ball 20 years ago. The defensive schemes were just as complicated. And you want speed, go back and watch some clips of guys like Lawrence Taylor or Ronnie Lot. And I'm sure the 85 Bears defense was slow and simple to figure out.:rotflmao



The 5 yard rule was put into effect in 74....so you really can't bring that into the discussion.

Guitar55
12-27-2011, 07:35 AM
Do you really need an explanation?

Only because he didn't play this year. That would be some accomplishment!

fisticuffs
12-27-2011, 08:01 AM
Great year for Drew. Huge record that fell last night. But it's A-Rodge. 45-6 That's all you need to know. And Aaron got a record of his own this year breaking Peyton's for passer rating (well there's next week but I expect a healthy dose of Matt Flynn's beard). Hoping someone knocks the Saints out of the playoffs before they reach Lambeau.

VoodooBlues
12-27-2011, 08:03 AM
I'm not sure the part about not touching receivers after five yards has as much to do with all the yards being put up. I think not allowing defenders to take a receivers head off, after he's caught the ball over the middle has a lot more to do with it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the league emphasized the helmet to helmet hit rules, halfway through last year, and now a lot more yards are being put up.

THebert
12-27-2011, 08:06 AM
Rodgers.

If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.

I would have thought the same but ESPN put up the average for each and the league average at their respective times and Brees was ahead. I was suprised at that.

VoodooBlues
12-27-2011, 08:15 AM
By the way, Brady is going to pass Marino's record too. He might even pass Brees if the Pats decide to run up the score in the final week. Rodgers would have an outside shot at passing Marino but it doesn't look like he'll even play the final week.

rmj254
12-27-2011, 08:15 AM
I would have thought the same but ESPN put up the average for each and the league average at their respective times and Brees was ahead. I was suprised at that.

Also, the league averages weren't a ton above what they were in Marino's time either. It was less than twenty yards per game difference.

atquinn
12-27-2011, 08:23 AM
Discuss......

Nothing to discuss really. Love Brees and he's a future HOF'er, but it's Rodgers no-contest this year.
-
Austin

mtmartin71
12-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Nothing to discuss really. Love Brees and he's a future HOF'er, but it's Rodgers no-contest this year.
-
Austin

I don't buy that. No contest? I agree that Rodgers edges him out but don't agree on no contest. Brees is definitely in the conversation.

weshunter
12-27-2011, 08:30 AM
should be Brees, definitely will be Rogers

fisticuffs
12-27-2011, 08:41 AM
should be Brees, definitely will be Rogers In another year maybe. But Brees threw 13 picks, Rodgers threw 6. The Saints also ran up the score last night, Rodgers was spelled by Matt Flynn more than once this season. Chase Daniel hasn't seen the field since last season's finale? At least from what I can tell form his stat sheet.
Edit. Looks like he got one pass in last week and one in week 12.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9678/gamelog;_ylt=ArsmVhq2tzOeVd2asAFhoU3.uLYF
Here's Matt Flynn
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8986/gamelog

original07
12-27-2011, 08:46 AM
Drew Brees MVP. Yes.

Boris Bubbanov
12-27-2011, 08:51 AM
All this concentration on the wrong matters, and an upset is what you get.

The only thing that matters is making it to the matchup and hopefully winning the ring.

Ask Dan Marino.

VoodooBlues
12-27-2011, 08:51 AM
In another year maybe. But Brees threw 13 picks, Rodgers threw 6. The Saints also ran up the score last night, Rodgers was spelled by Matt Flynn more than once this season. Chase Daniel hasn't seen the field since last season's finale? At least from what I can tell form his stat sheet.
Edit. Looks like he got one pass in last week and one in week 12.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9678/gamelog;_ylt=ArsmVhq2tzOeVd2asAFhoU3.uLYF
Here's Matt Flynn
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8986/gamelog

Yeah, that's my problem with taking any Packer players on a fantasy football team. McCarthy has a tendency to take the foot off the pedal and not run up the scores like the Saints and Patriots do.

Sidney Vicious
12-27-2011, 09:22 AM
Yeah, that's my problem with taking any Packer players on a fantasy football team. McCarthy has a tendency to take the foot off the pedal and not run up the scores like the Saints and Patriots do.

He's decent that way.

:sarcasm

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 09:22 AM
Rodgers.

Honorable mention to Peyton Manning. And Brees passing record doesn't mean much with THESE rules. If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.


Honorable mention to Peyton Manning? Doesn't he play in a dome also?


I don't remember anyone giving an * when Peyton broke the TD mark.

VoodooBlues
12-27-2011, 09:27 AM
He's decent that way.

:sarcasm

Not to my fantasy team he isn't!

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 09:33 AM
2009:

Drew vs Peyton: Drew had better completion % [NFL record], higher QB rating by 10 points, more TDs, less Ints, was within 150 yards.....

Yet Peyton won MVP.

M'kay. :huh



I prefer Drew's Super Bowl MVP, and hopefully he'll have another one this year. :aok

MightyGuru
12-27-2011, 09:33 AM
I think it's "Brees"...not Breeze, lol.

fisticuffs
12-27-2011, 09:39 AM
I prefer Drew's Super Bowl MVP, and hopefully he'll have another one this year.

And I prefer a clean sweep by Rodgers of both.

The Golden Boy
12-27-2011, 10:25 AM
And I prefer a clean sweep by Rodgers of both.

A Discount Double Check.

Lone Bear
12-27-2011, 11:21 AM
If the Browns can pick up RGIII in next year's draft, I'll happily nominate Colt McCoy....
As an ex-Clevelander and, unfortunately, lifelong Browns fan I'll second that nomination!

sfarnell
12-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Rogers gets my vote for MVP. But, Brees is the most accurate passer that I've ever seen. He places his passes exactly where he wants it to go and usually where only the receiver can catch it, even if it's a 40-50 yard pass. It's unbelievable.

I am afraid the 49ers are going to have to face Brees before GB and if it's in NO, the niners are going to have a very tough time of it. LUckily the niners play the rams this weekend and if they win they're the number 2 seed with a week off and homefield advantage.

projam619
12-27-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm not sure the part about not touching receivers after five yards has as much to do with all the yards being put up. I think not allowing defenders to take a receivers head off, after he's caught the ball over the middle has a lot more to do with it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the league emphasized the helmet to helmet hit rules, halfway through last year, and now a lot more yards are being put up.

The NFL changed to the "no-chucking" rule cuz they wanted more passing in the game. They realized the casual fan was more into offensive teams than defensive ones.

As great as Rodgers is this season, to me breaking Marino's record is more deserving of the MVP award. This record stood for too long, and seemed safely secure in the record books every season, until yesterday. When someone finally breaks Emmit Smith's record, I'd like to think that RB will get the MVP award.

TNJ
12-27-2011, 01:31 PM
seems like Rodgers and Brees are headed for NFC Champ showdown.......

Yep,
And the winner of that match will probably
play Brady.
Sounds like destiny matches our expectations for a change.
(unless those unpredictable Niners have their way)

*Im not bringing Peyton into this...
'til next season. :dude

S.
j

fisticuffs
12-27-2011, 01:35 PM
This record stood for too long, and seemed safely secure in the record books every season, until yesterday.

Brady could break it next week, if he plays. There are going to be 10 QB's with over 4,000 yards this year. There were 3 in 1984.

coldfingaz
12-27-2011, 01:44 PM
Rodgers.

Honorable mention to Peyton Manning. And Brees passing record doesn't mean much with THESE rules. If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.


I'd like to see an argument for why Rodgers deserves it more. It's getting harder & harder to see one over the other with each passing week.

Dismissing the record because of the rules is pretty lame, though. Brees is going to be the new record holder in spite of playing in an era alongside of Manning, Brady & Rodgers.

There's absolutely no reason to take anything away from Brees... and almost sad to see somebody try. He may not win it, but he surely belongs in the middle of the discussion.

tapeworm
12-27-2011, 01:53 PM
I'd like to see an argument for why Rodgers deserves it more. It's getting harder & harder to see one over the other with each passing week..


A Rodg has more TDs, less INTs, a better rating, a better avg per pass in 120 less passing attempts and being sacked 12 more times. His team has the better record. He should be the leader for MVP with Brees a close second, but second still.

That being said, I think Brees will win the MVP. The NFLPA representatives who do the voting love Brees and the Saints and they are the "feel good" story of the NFL. After breaking this record, I think Brees will win it.

VoodooBlues
12-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Brady could break it next week, if he plays. There are going to be 10 QB's with over 4,000 yards this year. There were 3 in 1984.

:agree

Brees picked the wrong year to break the record. He got robbed of the MVP in '09 though.

coldfingaz
12-27-2011, 02:00 PM
A Rodg has more TDs, less INTs, a better rating, a better avg per pass in 120 less passing attempts and being sacked 12 more times. His team has the better record. He should be the leader for MVP with Brees a close second, but second still.

That being said, I think Brees will win the MVP. The NFLPA representatives who do the voting love Brees and the Saints and they are the "feel good" story of the NFL. After breaking this record, I think Brees will win it.


I don't care either way because they're both worthy & having ridiculous seasons, but Brees does probably get some special consideration because of the record. He'll have more yards passing & a better completion %, but they are pretty pretty close in everything except yards & INT's.

Teleplayer
12-27-2011, 02:07 PM
Rodgers - better personal stats; team has more wins. Also didn't/doesn't play ten games in domed stadium environments this year.

Yeah, Brees played at Purdue; so I am sure that what happened a dozen years ago would allow him to be the same player in a hostile environment like GB. I get that....:huh

He's a heck of a QB, no doubt. I wonder how he would do playing in GB during November and December. Maybe that doesn't matter?

I think Rodgers is the undeniable MVP. Time will tell.

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 02:14 PM
Also didn't/doesn't play ten games in domed stadium environments this year.



I've never heard ANYONE question Peyton Manning's greatness because he plays he a dome. Ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

projam619
12-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Brady could break it next week, if he plays. There are going to be 10 QB's with over 4,000 yards this year. There were 3 in 1984.

True, but you gotta admit that a record that endures for 27 years means that its a supremely difficult one to break. IMHO, this translates to MVP award without hesitation, despite Rodgers great year.

rmj254
12-27-2011, 02:17 PM
A Rodg has more TDs, less INTs, a better rating, a better avg per pass in 120 less passing attempts and being sacked 12 more times. His team has the better record. He should be the leader for MVP with Brees a close second, but second still.


All of these are excellent reasons why Rodgers should be the MVP over Brees. Drew Brees has been an excellent quarterback for years now, and may have deserved it before, but he doesn't this year. Either way, it is my contention that Drew Brees is going to the Hall of Fame, so it won't make a whole lot of difference whether he ever wins an MVP.

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 02:20 PM
I wonder if there's any chance of a "co-MVP"??

I remember Favre and Barry Sanders split one year.

shredtrash
12-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Rodgers in a split decision. Both are AMAZING players and either one could easily win though.

atomicmassunit
12-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Unfortunately Brees will never win it, because there will always be someone close to his level who is more of a media darling. Not saying Rodgers doesn't deserve it, he does, but it wouldn't matter what Brees does this year, Rodgers is getting it. See Manning in 2009. The stats didn't matter.

rmj254
12-27-2011, 02:21 PM
I wonder if there's any chance of a "co-MVP"??

I remember Favre and Barry Sanders split one year.

I'd be totally in favor of that. Brees has been robbed of an MVP at least once, and he's having a great year this year.

fisticuffs
12-27-2011, 02:23 PM
True, but you gotta admit that a record that endures for 27 years means that its a supremely difficult one to break. IMHO, this translates to MVP award without hesitation, despite Rodgers great year.

All it translates into is a great year for passing yardage. The greatest in fact. You have to consider Rodgers year. You can't take it away from him without discussion because of the record.

A Rodg has more TDs, less INTs, a better rating, a better avg per pass in 120 less passing attempts and being sacked 12 more times. His team has the better record. He should be the leader for MVP with Brees a close second, but second still.

Roders is the MVP. Has been since week 1 when he beat Brees. He hasn't done anything since to knock him off that pedestal even if Brees broke this long standing record. A Rodge MVP, Brees second. While Co-MVP's sounds fair I'd still think it's nonsense. You'd have to bring Brady into the convo to even consider that.

osq_122
12-27-2011, 02:23 PM
I think the biggest argument both for Rodgers and against Brees is the number of pass attempts, yards per attempt, and interceptions.

Marino 564 attempts, 9 yards an attempt, 64% completion, 17 ints, 48 tds
Brees 622 attempt, 8.2 yards an attempt, 70.7% completion, 13 ints, 41 tds
Rodgers 502 attempts, 9.25 yards an attempt, 68.3% completion, 6 ints, 45 tds

To me, both Rodgers and Brees are having historic seasons but Brees has a few more "negatives". Brees has 120 more attempts and yet is only 400 yards better than Rodgers, while throwing more interceptions and fewer TDs. Further, and I know it's an argument that some strongly disagree with, but Rodgers has the better record this year. I'm not saying Drew lost those games for the Saints (haven't seen enough to really know) and neither am I saying Aaron won all those games (the defense made some key late game stops in a few) but the fact is that the Packers are 14-1 and the Saints 12-3. Quarterbacking is the key to a truly great team, and so, to a certain extent, the blame and praise falls on the QB [whether right or wrong]. Finally, I think the lack of a running game for the Packers ends up increasing the value of Aaron Rodgers.

Whatever happens, it's gonna be interesting. Both teams are absolutely stacked on offense (GB has better WRs, NO better TE and RBs) and have great coaches. I'm hoping for another face-off and I think Rodgers will prove why he is the best player in football right now.

brookshubbert
12-27-2011, 02:26 PM
If A monkey had your face he would if-if-if-if you. GEAUX LSU -- WHO DAT http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/smilies/mobat9.gif

brookshubbert
12-27-2011, 02:30 PM
Please you YANKEES -- DO NOT RETIRE IN THE SOUTH

saltydogg
12-27-2011, 02:45 PM
If Marino played now, and in a dome, he'd pass for 7,000 yards.

Dan ran a highly unbalanced offense for 18 years. He never had any kind of run support (some may remember one Miami's great backs during Marino's career: Bernie Parmalee, ex-UPS driver). For 18 seasons, Dan played against defenses that were specifically designed to stop him- not a running game.

And, I think the whole "the players are faster and stronger now" is nonsense. The defenses these days ARE faster and stronger but, so are the offenses. No different than when Dan played or Jim Brown or Frank Gifford....

I remember when the Dolphins signed Irving Fryar just before his 56th birthday. And, when Miami signed stud running back Ricky Williams shortly after Marino retired. Nice job Miami! EPIC FAIL.

All that said, Drew for MVP!

Sidney Vicious
12-27-2011, 02:57 PM
Brady could break it next week, if he plays. There are going to be 10 QB's with over 4,000 yards this year. There were 3 in 1984.

Only one guy has ever twice topped 5,000 - Drew Brees

A Rodg has more TDs, less INTs, a better rating, a better avg per pass in 120 less passing attempts and being sacked 12 more times. His team has the better record. He should be the leader for MVP with Brees a close second, but second still.

That being said, I think Brees will win the MVP. The NFLPA representatives who do the voting love Brees and the Saints and they are the "feel good" story of the NFL. After breaking this record, I think Brees will win it.

Being sacked more times is not a vote in favor of getting the MVP - :huh

Rodgers - better personal stats; team has more wins. Also didn't/doesn't play ten games in domed stadium environments this year.

Yeah, Brees played at Purdue; so I am sure that what happened a dozen years ago would allow him to be the same player in a hostile environment like GB. I get that....:huh

He's a heck of a QB, no doubt. I wonder how he would do playing in GB during November and December. Maybe that doesn't matter?

I think Rodgers is the undeniable MVP. Time will tell.

I get that Rodgers is a tough guy and doesn't have a dome to play in but its not like he sleeps in an igloo or anything - from what I hear most players say indoor/outdoor matters more to the fans than the players. :rotflmao

All that said - Peyton Manning has proven himself the most valuable player to his teams success - Rodgers will win the award IMHO and as things are going should win it as I think his performance - over all - tops Brees.

tapeworm
12-27-2011, 03:04 PM
Being sacked more times is not a vote in favor of getting the MVP - :huh


You chose only ONE of the stats I mentioned and it was coupled with the fact he has thrown 120 less passes. The others are what solidify the case for A Rodg as MVP, IMO of course.

hell, technically A Rodg can go over 5000 yards this season as well if he plays the entire game next week and has a good day.

I still think Brees wins still.

Sidney Vicious
12-27-2011, 03:08 PM
You chose only ONE of the stats I mentioned and it was coupled with the fact he has thrown 120 less passes. The others are what solidify the case for A Rodg as MVP, IMO of course.

hell, technically A Rodg can go over 5000 yards this season as well if he plays the entire game next week and has a good day.

I still think Brees wins still.

Hey - didn't mean no harm - I agree that Rodgers has a winning case for MVP - I just disagree that being sacked is a sign of QBing excellence -

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Interesting quotes from NFL players today:

Heath Evans on NFLN just said "people always ask me, having played with both, Brady or Brees for a game winning TD drive? I always say Brees." That shocked me.

Darren Sharper was on ESPN and said Drew's the best QB he's played with. Someone said "over Favre?!" "Yep".

EricPeterson
12-27-2011, 03:47 PM
Interesting quotes from NFL players today:

Heath Evans on NFLN just said "people always ask me, having played with both, Brady or Brees for a game winning TD drive? I always say Brees." That shocked me.

Darren Sharper was on ESPN and said Drew's the best QB he's played with. Someone said "over Favre?!" "Yep".

The Brady quote is surprising, the Farve one is not.

Teleplayer
12-27-2011, 04:30 PM
I've never heard ANYONE question Peyton Manning's greatness because he plays he a dome. Ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Craig - good point. I am jaundiced, being a Bears fan for decades. Our last good quarterback was Sid Luckman.

Craig Walker
12-27-2011, 04:31 PM
Sexy Rexy?

Teleplayer
12-27-2011, 04:34 PM
Sexy Rexy?

Don't remind me..... During the time the Packers have had Favre and Rodgers, the Bears have played 647 quarterbacks.....well, 648 if you consider Hanie a quarterback.

Guitar55
12-28-2011, 11:47 AM
....
*Im not bringing Peyton into this...
'til next season. :dude

S.
j

When he's coaching Andrew Luck?

calpa94
12-28-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm a pats fan and I know brady won the mvp last year but for them to be 12-3 with one win away from clinching the #1 seed with a defense that much of the time resembles a high school D is incredible. That's impossible without the season tom has had. Even still I think rodgers has earned the award.

Liquid_Mojo
12-28-2011, 01:41 PM
3 great QB's. But I think Brady should win the MVP. Their defense is horrible and he keeps winning games for the Pats. Brady will pass Marino's record as well, but Brees will be on top. Brady also plays in the elements, and in a tougher conference.

Aaron Rodgers is a hell of a QB, but his team has the most balance.

fisticuffs
12-28-2011, 01:52 PM
3 great QB's. But I think Brady should win the MVP. Their defense is horrible and he keeps winning games for the Pats. Brady will pass Marino's record as well, but Brees will be on top. Brady also plays in the elements, and in a tougher conference.

Aaron Rodgers is a hell of a QB, but his team has the most balance, especially on defense. Nothing soft about them. ??????
How many snow games have there been at Foxboro this year? None. Tougher conference? Not hardly. GB has a balanced Defense? Last time I checked they were 31st, NE was 32nd. Brady doesn't belong in this conversation this year. He wins the "Best Hair" award.

Liquid_Mojo
12-28-2011, 02:13 PM
??????
How many snow games have there been at Foxboro this year? None. Tougher conference? Not hardly. GB has a balanced Defense? Last time I checked they were 31st, NE was 32nd. Brady doesn't belong in this conversation this year. He wins the "Best Hair" award.

Probably should have been more clear. When I said 'tougher conference,' I meant tougher then the NFC South, not the NFC North. The NFC North is definitely tougher then the AFC East. And the weather is probably worse in GB then in NE.

And Brady is in this conversation. I think Rodgers will win it once the season is over, but I would take Brady.

Boris Bubbanov
12-28-2011, 02:25 PM
3 great QB's. But I think Brady should win the MVP. Their defense is horrible and he keeps winning games for the Pats. Brady will pass Marino's record as well, but Brees will be on top. Brady also plays in the elements, and in a tougher conference.

Aaron Rodgers is a hell of a QB, but his team has the most balance, especially on defense. Nothing soft about them.

This post is just empty. You don't respect the Falcons because you don't have to play them. I know the Bills, and except when it is inconvenient I know what a punching bag NE fans have made of them recently. And Miami has been sick for a long time as well.

You're best stroke is, New England is a way bigger, better, wealthier market than shaky New Orleans (Goodbye, Chris Paul) or a small town in Wisconsin. That's all you got this year. Foxboro weather comparable to Wisconsin? That's just not so.

rob2001
12-28-2011, 02:46 PM
I'd like to see an argument for why Rodgers deserves it more. It's getting harder & harder to see one over the other with each passing week.


For me, I see his mobility as a big factor here. He made a lot of things happen in spite of an average at best offensive line, on the run, and not much of a running game.

And I know Drew is a cool customer but Aaron has done what he's done with a ton of pressure, being on a defending SB team.

fisticuffs
12-28-2011, 02:47 PM
I'd like to see an argument for why Rodgers deserves it more. It's getting harder & harder to see one over the other with each passing week.

45-6

TNJ
12-28-2011, 06:06 PM
When he's coaching Andrew Luck?

Ha ha...

Yeah...by example.

S.
j

Clumsy Fingers
12-28-2011, 06:36 PM
Please you YANKEES -- DO NOT RETIRE IN THE SOUTH

If the South is populated by your kind, you needn't worry

DWB1960
12-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Interesting quotes from NFL players today:

Heath Evans on NFLN just said "people always ask me, having played with both, Brady or Brees for a game winning TD drive? I always say Brees."

Brady has 31 game winning drives. How many does Brees have?

Makes sense Evans would say this. He finished his career and won a super bowl with Drew.

DWB1960
12-28-2011, 07:50 PM
45-6

To elaborate:

Rating - TDs - Ints - Average yards per throw - record

Brees - 108.4 - 41 - 13 - 8.2 - 12-3

Rodgers - 122.5 - 45 - 6 - 9.2 - 14-1

Rodgers has also out rushed Brees 239 yards to 81 yards.

Craig Walker
12-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Brady has 31 game winning drives. How many does Brees have?



I said I was shocked he said it. [Drew has 29]

DWB1960
12-28-2011, 08:43 PM
I said I was shocked he said it.

Craig, no offense intended. Was an honest question. You and me both are on the same side brother. Members of the MHTHASAQB club.


My Home Team Has a Studly Amazing QuarterBack

fisticuffs
12-28-2011, 08:51 PM
My Home Team Has a Studly Amazing QuarterBack

I hear ya. Must suck to be a Bears or Dolphins fan listening to us go on and on about which superstar QB is the most fantastic... Almost makes me feel bad. Almost.

mnjordan
12-28-2011, 10:16 PM
Craig, no offense intended. Was an honest question. You and me both are on the same side brother. Members of the MHTHASAQB club.


My Home Team Has a Studly Amazing QuarterBack

:agree

These cats are heavy. Some excellent, excellent football being played these last 4-5 years.

Craig Walker
12-29-2011, 06:50 AM
Craig, no offense intended. Was an honest question. You and me both are on the same side brother. Members of the MHTHASAQB club.


My Home Team Has a Studly Amazing QuarterBack


:D :D

DWB1960
12-29-2011, 07:35 AM
Interesting note from ESPN:

One player in NFL history has needed only 15 games to amass at least 4,800 yards and 35 TDs, all while averaging at least 8.5 yards per attempt. Brady is that player. Opening the window to 16 games draws Marino (1984) and Kurt Warner (2001) into this select circle. The point, basically, is that Brady is enjoying what would be an MVP-caliber season in just about any other year. Perhaps we take for granted his production.

This further highlights the incredible seasons that Rodgers and Brees are having.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 01:33 PM
Drew threw for 5 TDs 1 Int, and 389 yards in 3 qtrs. 5400+ for year.

If he doesn't split the MVP with Aaron it's robbery.

His numbers are insane.

rmj254
01-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Drew threw for 5 TDs 1 Int, and 389 yards in 3 qtrs. 5400+ for year.

If he doesn't split the MVP with Aaron it's robbery.

His numbers are insane.

Absolutely insane. It's going to be much more difficult to just give Rodgers the MVP now.

partytrain
01-01-2012, 01:59 PM
The saints were running the score up in the 4th to get Drew some more numbers while Rodgers was enjoying the show from the sideline. It took drew 16 games to get the td #'s that Rodgers got in 15 (not including the multiple 4th quarters he sat out). Rodgers just ended the season with a new NFL passer rating record, leading his team to the NFL's best record. The MVP race was finished before Bree's made his late season stats push.

partytrain
01-01-2012, 02:00 PM
Drew threw for 5 TDs 1 Int, and 389 yards in 3 qtrs. 5400+ for year.

If he doesn't split the MVP with Aaron it's robbery.

His numbers are insane.

His last td to sproles was in the 4th btw.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Yeah....smashing a 27 yr old record means nothing....

mnjordan
01-01-2012, 02:17 PM
Brees also broke his own completion percentage record as well.

mge80
01-01-2012, 02:19 PM
Yeah....smashing a 27 yr old record means nothing....


It's more about putting up gaudy numbers. If you weren't seeing through those "homer" glasses, you'd realize this.:rotflmao

Re-read this...as many times as it takes for it to sink in:

The saints were running the score up in the 4th to get Drew some more numbers while Rodgers was enjoying the show from the sideline. It took drew 16 games to get the td #'s that Rodgers got in 15 (not including the multiple 4th quarters he sat out). Rodgers just ended the season with a new NFL passer rating record, leading his team to the NFL's best record. The MVP race was finished before Bree's made his late season stats push.

partytrain
01-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah....smashing a 27 yr old record means nothing....

Yards doesn't mean a whole lot unless it ends in td's and W's.

Packers D has given up more yards than 30 other teams this year. Yards don't tell the whole story.

qb rating on the other hand does take into effect all of a qb's numbers and Rodgers now has that record.

So the records are a wash, each has set a new one this season.

Rodgers was the best player on the best team, that equals MVP. Brees is the best player on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best team, depending how you look at it. He'd be a lock if Rodgers wasn't playing at such a unheard of level. It's just too bad for Brees. Any other season, there wouldn't have even been a conversation.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 02:26 PM
I only pray the "2nd, 3rd, or 4th best team" reaches Lambeau.

mnjordan
01-01-2012, 02:27 PM
Matt Flynn has over 400 yards passing today.

partytrain
01-01-2012, 02:30 PM
I only pray the "2nd, 3rd, or 4th best team" reaches Lambeau.

They were already there, Sean Peyton thought it was smarter to put the ball in the hands of a rookie playing his first NFL game then putting it in the hands of his "MVP"....not a real vote of confidence from the Head Coach.

bigwebb
01-01-2012, 02:33 PM
peyton has proved with his absence this year that he is the real mvp. As far as who's going to get it, I think that will be determined in the playoffs. But my money is on rodgers or brees

AnthonyL
01-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Matt Flynn has over 400 yards passing today.

He just set the franchise record for TD's. Good system they got there...

TNJ
01-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Well,
at least we lost the right game today.

Let's get Lucky, and get Peyton healthy, and see who has the best offense next season.

As far as this season is concerned...I'd be ok with a 3 way split for MVP honors:

RODGERS/BREES/BRADY

Wow...Flynn? Flynn?????? No fair!!!

Gotta go with GB for all the chips.

In this day and age...QB's WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

S.
j

DWB1960
01-01-2012, 02:41 PM
One thing that hurts Brees is the fact that Brady also smashed the record.

Marino: 5084

Brees: 5476
Brady: 5235

Brees only has 1 more TD than Rodgers who played 1 fewer game.

So I agree, it comes down to QB rating this year.

That being said, 2011 goes down as the year of the QB!!!

fisticuffs
01-01-2012, 02:42 PM
MAtt Flynn should split MVP with Aaron Rodgers. 400+ yards and 6TD's. Brees' record would mean more this year if Matt Stafford didn't have almost 5000 yards. Its been an odd year.

DWB1960
01-01-2012, 02:42 PM
peyton has proved with his absence this year that he is the real mvp. As far as who's going to get it, I think that will be determined in the playoffs. But my money is on rodgers or brees

MVP voting is based solely on the regular season. Playoffs don't factor into it.

Guitarfool
01-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Amazing year for the QB and all three are on a path to Canton, (Bradys allready there, Brees is just about there and Rogers has a foot in the door) but i have always maintaned that todays game is much different than the game of yesterday and Brees play in a dome with perfect conditions for throwing the ball in todays pass friendly NFL


Again MVP candidate for sure but just looking at the other side of the coin

mge80
01-01-2012, 02:46 PM
MVP voting is based solely on the regular season. Playoffs don't factor into it.

This is correct. In fact, it typically is announced during the first week of the playoffs.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Flynn struggled in that offense :roll

Raise your hand if you think Chase Daniels throws for 500 yards and 6 TDs.

TNJ
01-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Flynn struggled in that offense :roll

Yeah, just like Brees struggled against that Carolina D!

:D

S.
j

HRM
01-01-2012, 03:22 PM
MVP should be Peyton Manning. I'm dead serious.

Otherwise, Brady. Can't stand the guy - he OOZES arrogance - but no-one consistently HAS to do more to win every week than that guy.

coldfingaz
01-01-2012, 03:26 PM
MVP should be Peyton Manning. I'm dead serious.


Please stop with this nonsense. Seriously. You guys are just making Indy fans look like a bunch of crackpots with ludicrous claims like this.

I understand Peyton Manning's value to the Colts. Everyone does. He's an all-time great QB & an obvious shoe-in Hall of Famer.

BUT, if you haven't noticed, three other guys are having seasons in 2011 that rival or surpass anything Peyton Manning has ever done in a single season.

So, let's get off Cloud 9 & recognize at least one of the greatest NFL QB performances in the history of the sport that occurred on the field of play in 2011... instead of a guy that's been out all season with possibly a career-ending injury.

HRM
01-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Please stop with this nonsense. Seriously. You guys are just making Indy fans look like a bunch of crackpots with ludicrous claims like this.

I understand Peyton Manning's value to the Colts. Everyone does. He's an all-time great QB & an obvious shoe-in Hall of Famer.

BUT, if you haven't noticed, three other guys are having seasons in 2011 that rival or surpass anything Peyton Manning has ever done. So, let's get off Cloud 9 & recognize at least one of the greatest NFL QB performances in the history of the sport... instead of a guy that's been out all season with possibly a career-ending injury.

I'm no Colts fan.

*shrug* I just wish the MVP would go back to Most Valuable Player and not just the guy who puts up the craziest video-game numbers. They aren't always the same.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 03:30 PM
Raise your hand if you think Chase Daniels throws for 500 yards and 6 TDs.


Anyone?? :huh


Speaks volumes to me.

coldfingaz
01-01-2012, 03:30 PM
I'm no Colts fan.

*shrug* I just wish the MVP would go back to Most Valuable Player and not just the guy who puts up the craziest video-game numbers. They aren't always the same.


:bonk

Sidney Vicious
01-01-2012, 03:35 PM
Note to all comers - only one man has TWICE thrown for more than 5000 - Drew Brees.
That said I think all things considered Rodgers has had a better year - but other than today when has he sat out an entire 4th quarter?

rob2001
01-01-2012, 03:39 PM
He just set the franchise record for TD's. Good system they got there...

Well ya, but Matt is better than a lot of starters in the league.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 03:41 PM
That said I think all things considered Rodgers has had a better year - but other than today when has he sat out an entire 4th quarter?


Drew sat out Colts 4th qtr too.

Craig Walker
01-01-2012, 04:17 PM
Passing yards, season: Drew Brees, 5,467 (beats Marino)
300-yard passing games, season: Brees, 13.
350-yard passing games, season: Brees, 8.
Games with 30 completions, season: Brees, 9.
Consecutive games, 20 or more completions: Brees, 36.
Games with 20 completions, season: Brees, 16. (ties his own record)
Highest completion percentage, season: Brees, (468/657) 71.23% (beats his old record)
Completions, season: Brees, 468. (beats Manning)
Consecutive games, 300 or more yards passing: Brees, 7. (beats Young,Warner,Gannon)

projam619
01-01-2012, 04:29 PM
Passing yards, season: Drew Brees, 5,467 (beats Marino)
300-yard passing games, season: Brees, 13.
350-yard passing games, season: Brees, 8.
Games with 30 completions, season: Brees, 9.
Consecutive games, 20 or more completions: Brees, 36.
Games with 20 completions, season: Brees, 16. (ties his own record)
Highest completion percentage, season: Brees, (468/657) 71.23% (beats his old record)
Completions, season: Brees, 468. (beats Manning)
Consecutive games, 300 or more yards passing: Brees, 7. (beats Young,Warner,Gannon)

Amazing numbers! So...what counts more, QB rating, or these numbers?

coldfingaz
01-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Brees' completion % is absolutely ridiculous.

People that act like he's got some huge advantage because he plays in a dome obviously haven't seen his road stats for 2011, including 419 yards at Green Bay in week 1.

Brees, Rodgers & Brady are all worthy of the MVP so I really don't care who gets it... all I know is, as a fan of the NFL, I'd love to watch two of them face each other in the Super Bowl.

rob2001
01-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Passing yards, season: Drew Brees, 5,467 (beats Marino)
300-yard passing games, season: Brees, 13.
350-yard passing games, season: Brees, 8.
Games with 30 completions, season: Brees, 9.
Consecutive games, 20 or more completions: Brees, 36.
Games with 20 completions, season: Brees, 16. (ties his own record)
Highest completion percentage, season: Brees, (468/657) 71.23% (beats his old record)
Completions, season: Brees, 468. (beats Manning)
Consecutive games, 300 or more yards passing: Brees, 7. (beats Young,Warner,Gannon)


Great numbers for sure. Still...........

partytrain
01-01-2012, 04:51 PM
Rodgers 15-1


When all is said and done, do any other numbers really matter?

TheGuildedAge
01-01-2012, 04:53 PM
One thing I think we all can agree on is it has been a great year for quarterbacks, so many had great years.

VoodooBlues
01-01-2012, 05:19 PM
Rodgers 15-1


When all is said and done, do any other numbers really matter?

Nope. Especially not when Brees threw multiple picks to lose to the Bucs and Rams, two of the worst teams in the league. Rodgers never threw picks to lose games for his team this year. He only threw 6 all season. Rodgers also set a new NFL season quarterback rating record at 122.5. Threw one less TD than Brees with well over a hundred less throws.

flea
01-01-2012, 05:20 PM
I'm no Colts fan.

*shrug* I just wish the MVP would go back to Most Valuable Player and not just the guy who puts up the craziest video-game numbers. They aren't always the same.

I'm a big fan of Manning, but considering he hasn't played this year I find that incredibly hilarious. I understand your argument that when he plays he is 99% of their offense, but if you're not on the field you're not worth a dime as a player until you get back out there. If he comes back next year and puts up crazy numbers and they have a winning season again, he would definitely be the MVP though.

That said, I have to represent my state, and go with Brees for this year!

coldfingaz
01-01-2012, 05:24 PM
Rodgers 15-1


When all is said and done, do any other numbers really matter?


Maybe not, but technically he was 14- 1.

Realistically, this MVP race may be too close to call. It's also never been awarded exclusively to the guy that's team has the most W's.

And, really... the award means little at this point either way. All 3 of these guys are deserving so nobody should feel robbed.

rob2001
01-01-2012, 08:16 PM
I wonder if they'll ever award a co-MVP again ala Favre/Sanders?

I think Aaron will get it, but I won't be upset if Drew gets the award. He's an awesome QB and seems to be a genuinely good dude.

Guitar Josh
01-01-2012, 08:39 PM
Rodgers 15-1


When all is said and done, do any other numbers really matter?

Uh, yes.

pavlov
01-01-2012, 09:32 PM
The 5 yard rule was put into effect in 74....so you really can't bring that into the discussion.

Yes you can , if you watched Football long enough you knew they didn't enforce that rule. There was a playoff game in 93 or 94 when the Packers finally beat the 49ers. The reason is because they were mugging their receivers all the way down the field.

wilblee
01-02-2012, 01:14 AM
I'm a huge Drew Brees fan and have been since he was at Westlake High School, but I gotta go with Rodgers for MVP. As much as I have enjoyed watching Drew this year (and pretty much every year of his NFL career), and have marveled at his accomplishments and at his humility, there hasn't been any player, at any position, who has been as totally lights out as Aaron Rodgers has been this season. Just phenomenal.

Stratobuc
01-02-2012, 01:20 AM
After watching what their (Packers) backup did today against a playoff bound team - I'd give the edge to Brees.

VoodooBlues
01-02-2012, 06:17 AM
After watching what their (Packers) backup did today against a playoff bound team - I'd give the edge to Brees.

Yeah, but when Brees faced the Lions, he didn't throw 6 touchdowns so, by your logic, Flynn is also a better QB than Brees.

The Packers are as good as any team in the league at coaching and developing QB's nobody else wanted. Rodgers was a late first rounder, that multiple teams passed on. Flynn was a 7th rounder and former backup to Jamarcus Russell at LSU. The future backup Graham Harrell, was undrafted. The Packers have a history of developing backups and sending them on to starting jobs elsewhere: Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks. Heck, even Kurt Warner had a cup of coffee with the Packers back in the day.

But let's not kid ourselves, the Lions just aren't in the same class as the elite NFC teams. They only beat one other playoff team all year (the Broncos). They give games away with penalties and their secondary is injured and awful right now. Flynn turned the ball over twice in that game (1 pick and 1 fumble) and almost threw a game ending pick. It went right through the defenders hands. The Packers wouldn't want him going up against a legitimately good team. Rodgers rarely hurts his team with game changing turnovers, while still being extremely productive.

pavlov
01-02-2012, 08:47 AM
4 guys this year in the top 10 all time for throwing yards. Eli Manning with 4,933 yards, which is more than his brother ever threw for. If you guys don't think the rules are having a major impact on the records being broken then pass me whatever you're smoking.

DWB1960
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
Putting aside total yards and YPG stats, here's how they break down:

Player / Rating / ATT-COMP / % / YPA / TD-INT

Brees / 110.6 / 468-657 / 71.2% / 8.3 / 46-14

Rodgers / 122.5 / 343-502 / 68.3 / 9.2 / 45-6

Rodgers has a higher rating, is a more efficient passer based on YPA, and his TD to INT ratio is only 13.3% compared to Brees' 30.4%.

Rodgers TD to COMP ratio is better too at 13.11% compared to Brees' 9.8%.

Bottom line: Brees slung the ball a lot, completed a lot of passes, and racked up a lot of yards in the process. But Rodgers was the more efficient passer who didn't turn the ball over.

And again, if Brees alone had broken Marino's record it might have mattered more. The fact that two players shattered it and another came close waters it down a little bit.

MVP = Rodgers

IMO.

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
Lots of talk this am by talking heads on this subject.....I have heard a bunch of "split the vote" and some giving knod to Drew.

ACfixer
01-02-2012, 08:54 AM
Lots of talk this am by talking heads on this subject.....I have heard a bunch of "split the vote" and some giving knod to Drew.

What's a knod?

Drew's accuracy is absurd, he gets my vote by a hair.

DWB1960
01-02-2012, 08:56 AM
One other thing, Rodgers only loss was against a 7-9 team. Two of Brees' losses were against 4-12 and 2-14 teams. If voters are looking for tie breakers you know that this will matter.

Sidney Vicious
01-02-2012, 09:02 AM
Putting aside total yards and YPG stats, here's how they break down:

Player / Rating / ATT-COMP / % / YPA / TD-INT

Brees / 110.6 / 468-657 / 71.2% / 8.3 / 46-14

Rodgers / 122.5 / 343-502 / 68.3 / 9.2 / 45-6

Rodgers has a higher rating, is a more efficient passer based on YPA, and his TD to INT ratio is only 13.3% compared to Brees' 30.4%.

Rodgers TD to COMP ratio is better too at 13.11% compared to Brees' 9.8%.

Bottom line: Brees slung the ball a lot, completed a lot of passes, and racked up a lot of yards in the process. But Rodgers was the more efficient passer who didn't turn the ball over.

And again, if Brees alone had broken Marino's record it might have mattered more. The fact that two players shattered it and another came close waters it down a little bit.

MVP = Rodgers

IMO.

While I give the edge to Rodgers, I think it is very close - and think in the mix you have to include the facts that:

Rodgers was sacked 36 times in 15
Brees was sacked 24 in 16

Advantage Brees.

On fumbles Brees lost one - Rodgers lost none.

Advantage Rodgers.

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 09:09 AM
What's a knod

Nod, my bad.

ACfixer
01-02-2012, 09:12 AM
Nod, my bad.

;) I was just razzing you Mr. Walker.

The Golden Boy
01-02-2012, 09:16 AM
MVP should be Peyton Manning. I'm dead serious.



I'm no Colts fan.

*shrug* I just wish the MVP would go back to Most Valuable Player and not just the guy who puts up the craziest video-game numbers. They aren't always the same.

"Player."

How many downs did Peyton Manning "play" this season?

DWB1960
01-02-2012, 09:17 AM
Four reasons why SI's Peter King voted for Rodgers:

1. I thought Rodgers was better for the full season. Rodgers was 14-1, Brees 13-3. So much can go into wins and losses, and each man did more than any on his team to lead to those wins. But in the two midseason losses that ultimately cost the Saints the second seed in the playoffs, Brees was less than perfect, and it hurt his team. In a six-point loss to Tampa Bay in Week 6, Brees threw one interception late in the first half that Josh Freeman turned into a touchdown three plays later. Late in the fourth quarter, down six, Brees threw an interception in the end zone. Two weeks later, New Orleans went to St. Louis and lost by 10 to A.J. Feeley and the Rams. Brees threw one interception that was returned for a touchdown, and the other was turned into a touchdown pass by Feeley. In Rodgers' first 12 weeks of the season, he ground up every opponent with remarkable efficiency, throwing 37 touchdowns with just five interceptions ... almost the same way Brees played at the end of the season. In the last eight games, Brees was as brilliant as Rodgers was for the first 12. The Saints were 8-0, and he threw 27 touchdowns with four interceptions, and was a paragon of accuracy. But those two losses to, as it turned out, 4-12 and 2-14 teams, with Brees mistakes a factor, weighed on my decision. In the end, it was like watching two almost perfect skaters, and one lands the quad and one has a perfect program except for double-footing the landing on one jump.

2. Brees had five multiple-interception games, Rodgers none. Not decisive, but a factor. I also thought the TD-to-interception differential (plus-39 for Rodgers, plus-32 for Brees) and the yards per attempt (9.25 to 8.33, in Rodgers' favor) was a factor.

3. I wanted to respect statistics but not be overwhelmed by them. I have tremendous respect for Brees the team player, and I couldn't care less that he was throwing the ball up 22 with three minutes to play against Atlanta. All he's doing is executing the plays that are called. But I don't want numbers, some of which are exacerbated in blowouts like the 62-7 rout of the Colts (Brees) and 45-7 rout of the Vikings (Rodgers), to affect the vote unduly, particularly since Brees threw 155 more passes than Rodgers.

4. Rodgers won the head-to-head matchup. Again, not overwhelming. But a brick in the wall.

ACfixer
01-02-2012, 09:20 AM
Hard to argue with Peter King's logic. There's a reason why he writes for Sports Illustrated and I'm about ready to go spend a day in an attic.

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 09:20 AM
;) I was just razzing you Mr. Walker.

I'll never be mistaken as a gud spellar.

rob2001
01-02-2012, 09:29 AM
Rodgers was sacked 36 times in 15
Brees was sacked 24 in 16

Advantage Brees.



Or advantage Aaron. It's evidence that his O-line was not the best and he had no running game.

DWB1960
01-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Or advantage Aaron. It's evidence that his O-line was not the best and he had no running game.

Team Rushing Rank.

Saints - 6th
Packers - 27th

rob2001
01-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Team Rushing Rank.

Saints - 6th
Packers - 27th

And didn't Sproles have the most all purpose yards ever?

ACfixer
01-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Sproles certainly opens up more possibilities than anything the Packers can muster. Man that guy is fast. Best free agent signing by a long shot.

Guitarfool
01-02-2012, 09:56 AM
Hows is it playing in that 72 degree climate controlled smooth surface/carpet indoors? Hmmmm it must be nice!


:stir

Sidney Vicious
01-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Or advantage Aaron. It's evidence that his O-line was not the best and he had no running game.

I think a sack in not a feather in a QB's cap - the better QB "feels" it, avoids it, doesn't eat the ball.

More sacks is not a plus.

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 10:36 AM
Team Rushing Rank.

Saints - 6th
Packers - 27th

Why the Saints could win in GB.

partytrain
01-02-2012, 10:38 AM
I think a sack in not a feather in a QB's cap - the better QB "feels" it, avoids it, doesn't eat the ball.

More sacks is not a plus.

In regards to "feeling" pressure:

Rodgers -257 yards rushing, 3 tds

Brees-86 yards rushing, 1 td.


Just another area where Rodgers was a greater impact for his team.

Sidney Vicious
01-02-2012, 11:02 AM
In regards to "feeling" pressure:

Rodgers -257 yards rushing, 3 tds

Brees-86 yards rushing, 1 td.


Just another area where Rodgers was a greater impact for his team.

Rodgers - sacks - 36 - yards lost 219
Brees - sacks - 24 - yards lost 158

Just another area where Rodgers was a greater impact for his team. :p



Hard to compare stats in a vacuum - many variables come into play - was the sack or the interception at a critical point? in the red zone? was the interception a tipped ball?

That said - more sacks is not more better - IMHO.

TNJ
01-02-2012, 11:16 AM
He is what his record says he is.

I'm talking Season W-L record, the final statistic that really should end discussion.
Drew is a badass HOF'er in the making, no doubt.
But in 2011, it will be Aaron's trophy, IMO.
I really would take him over Drew, if only because of his ability outside the pocket.
In all other categories, though, they are shoulder to shoulder.


S>
j

rob2001
01-02-2012, 01:57 PM
I think a sack in not a feather in a QB's cap

More sacks is not a plus.

No, and I wasn't suggesting it was. I was suggesting Drew had a better O-line and a running game. Those things tend to help passing stats.

TheGuildedAge
01-02-2012, 02:29 PM
Peter King sort of swayed me today, comparing Rogers and Brees over the last half of the season, Brees comes out on top.

I still give the nod to Rogers, but almost hope they split.

projam619
01-02-2012, 02:40 PM
2011-12 was the season of great offenses, not-so-spectacular defenses (overall). I wonder how Brees and Rodgers would fare if this season was stacked with great defensive teams - would there be so much record shattering?

Can't wait to see GB against some of the stronger defenses in the AFC, like the Steelers.

Sidney Vicious
01-02-2012, 02:51 PM
Or advantage Aaron. It's evidence that his O-line was not the best and he had no running game.

No, and I wasn't suggesting it was. I was suggesting Drew had a better O-line and a running game. Those things tend to help passing stats.

You Rodgers fans can't take a compliment - :p

I think he gets the MVP in a close race with Brees -

but the fact is Rodgers was sacked 12 times more than Brees in one fewer games - (and purportedly he sat out several fourth quarters?)- his sacks cost his team a couple of hundred yards - that is not a good thing - he might be the greatest QB in the history of the world having the best season ever - but looking at sacks alone, more sacks is not more better
that is not "advantage Aaron" :horse :rotflmao

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 03:02 PM
Can't wait to see GB against some of the stronger defenses in the AFC, like the Steelers.


They sell last year's SB on DVD/BluRay.

Craig Walker
01-02-2012, 03:04 PM
ESPN Sportsnation Poll:

19,000 votes.

Drew 59% [winning 46 states]

Aaron 41%

coldfingaz
01-02-2012, 03:06 PM
Can't wait to see GB against some of the stronger defenses in the AFC, like the Steelers.

Might not happen. I don't know if the Steelers or Ravens can beat New England on a good day.

And, New England's defense is shakier than Green Bay's.

Not that Green Bay necessarily has a cakewalk out of the NFC either. I'd love to see them match up against San Fran &/or New Orleans.

partytrain
01-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Can't wait to see GB against some of the stronger defenses in the AFC, like the Steelers.

you saw it last February, and Rodgers absolutely owned them. That was with out his #1 TE, and one of the receivers.

projam619
01-02-2012, 03:29 PM
you saw it last February, and Rodgers absolutely owned them. That was with out his #1 TE, and one of the receivers.

True. Maybe SF's defense might be more of a challenge.

HRM
01-02-2012, 03:45 PM
True. Maybe SF's defense might be more of a challenge.

I don't think they'll get by New Orleans.

partytrain
01-02-2012, 05:49 PM
I don't think they'll get by New Orleans.

this

rob2001
01-03-2012, 05:23 AM
You Rodgers fans can't take a compliment - :p

I think he gets the MVP in a close race with Brees -

but the fact is Rodgers was sacked 12 times more than Brees in one fewer games - (and purportedly he sat out several fourth quarters?)- his sacks cost his team a couple of hundred yards - that is not a good thing - he might be the greatest QB in the history of the world having the best season ever - but looking at sacks alone, more sacks is not more better
that is not "advantage Aaron" :horse :rotflmao


I thought I clarified what I meant with my second post but I guess not.

partytrain
01-03-2012, 05:52 AM
You Rodgers fans can't take a compliment - :p

I think he gets the MVP in a close race with Brees -

but the fact is Rodgers was sacked 12 times more than Brees in one fewer games - (and purportedly he sat out several fourth quarters?)- his sacks cost his team a couple of hundred yards - that is not a good thing - he might be the greatest QB in the history of the world having the best season ever - but looking at sacks alone, more sacks is not more better
that is not "advantage Aaron" :horse :rotflmao

So which is better, taking a sack and losing the yards like Rodgers does, or rushing/forcing throws and getting picked off as Brees did a few times this year? There is something to be said about living to play another play...I'd rather lose 7 yards on 2nd down then lose the possession all together.

coldfingaz
01-03-2012, 06:00 AM
So which is better, taking a sack and losing the yards like Rodgers does, or rushing/forcing throws and getting picked off as Brees did a few times this year? There is something to be said about living to play another play...I'd rather lose 7 yards on 2nd down then lose the possession all together.

I don't think either is "better" nor are those 2 stats even really comparable because they have nothing to do with each other.

But, while you're tossing stats like this around consider that Brees also threw 25% (or over 150) more passes than Rodgers did. Brees had a higher completion % and more of everything else, including yards, TD's & of course INT's.

There's a good argument for either one of these guys as MVP. Rodgers overall has the edge, but shattering a 27 year old record may help Brees' vote total more than some of you guys think.

partytrain
01-06-2012, 04:57 AM
Clean sweep from the Sports Illustrated writers:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/01/04/season.awards/index.html?sct=nfl_bf3_a3

Craig Walker
01-06-2012, 07:45 AM
Clean sweep from the Sports Illustrated writers:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/01/04/season.awards/index.html?sct=nfl_bf3_a3


So is "Offensive Player of the Year" = consolation prize? :dunno :huh


Stupid.

If Rodgers is "MVP", then he has to also be OPotY.

DWB1960
01-06-2012, 07:50 AM
So is "Offensive Player of the Year" = consolation prize? :dunno :huh


Stupid.

If Rodgers is "MVP", then he has to also be OPotY.

Gotta disagree with ya on this one Craig. The NHL has awards for scoring leader and MVP. Very often there's two different winners in the same season.

I think this is kind of like that.

How about when Lawrence Taylor won MVP????

Craig Walker
01-06-2012, 07:55 AM
How about when Lawrence Taylor won MVP????


Then he should have been [and was] named Def Player of Year too.

DWB1960
01-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Then he should have been [and was] named Def Player of Year too.

Look at SI's picks for OPOTY. Gronk wasn't MVP but he shattered both of the Tight End records. Dude had more touchdowns than any wide receiver this year. Brady is obviously the Pats MVP but it's a good argument that Gronk was their OPOTY.

Rusty G.
01-06-2012, 08:02 AM
What is the criteria for picking the Most Valuable Player?

I haven't seen a definition from any authoritative source. Is it just the current media darling or is it something else?

Here's my argument. . .Drew broken a record that has stood for 27 years.

What record has Aaron broken?

DWB1960
01-06-2012, 08:06 AM
What is the criteria for picking the Most Valuable Player?

I haven't seen a definition from any authoritative source. Is it just the current media darling or is it something else?

Here's my argument. . .Drew broken a record that has stood for 27 years.

What record has Aaron broken?

The National Football League Most Valuable Player Award (NFL MVP) is given by various entities, most notably the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) (AP), to the player who is considered most valuable in the league.

Brady broke the record too. Should he share the MVP simply because of that?

If you break down all of the stats, Rodgers had one of the best QB years ever. It's not all about yards.

Rusty G.
01-06-2012, 08:56 AM
The National Football League Most Valuable Player Award (NFL MVP) is given by various entities, most notably the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) (AP), to the player who is considered most valuable in the league.

Brady broke the record too. Should he share the MVP simply because of that?

If you break down all of the stats, Rodgers had one of the best QB years ever. It's not all about yards.


Good point, but it still hasn't answered the question. . .what does it mean to be most valuable player in the league? The player most people want to watch? The player who earns the most in annual salary? The player who has the most endorsements? The player who breaks the most records? The player who plays on the team with the current best record? The current media darling?

You've stated that Rodgers has had "one of the best QB years ever." O.K. By definition, that isn't the best. At least Drew can say he's posted the highest total yard production in the history of the league this year. My question is, what record can Aaron hang his hat on?

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 08:59 AM
The National Football League Most Valuable Player Award (NFL MVP) is given by various entities, most notably the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) (AP), to the player who is considered most valuable in the league.

Brady broke the record too. Should he share the MVP simply because of that?

If you break down all of the stats, Rodgers had one of the best QB years ever. It's not all about yards.


True - one of the best - but not THE best -

Brees and Brady threw more yards;
I think Brees had a better completion percentage;

and I think the case can be made that Matt Flynn's lights out performance against Detroit undemines Rodgers claim for MVP - Flynn showed that Rodgers wasn't the only straw that could stir that drink - so in that scheme maybe not the MOST valuable player -

I am rethinking my earlier belief that Rodgers had it wrapped up.:p

coldfingaz
01-06-2012, 09:05 AM
True - one of the best - but not THE best -

Brees and Brady threw more yards;
I think Brees had a better completion percentage;

and I think the case can be made that Matt Flynn's lights out performance against Detroit undemines Rodgers claim for MVP - Flynn showed that Rodgers wasn't the only straw that could stir that drink - so in that scheme maybe not the MOST valuable player -

I am rethinking my earlier belief that Rodgers had it wrapped up.:p



Brees' completion % is an insane statistic.

The guy threw like 5 million passes & still completed over 70% of them. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 09:07 AM
Brees' completion % is an insane statistic.

The guy threw like 5 million passes & still completed over 70% of them. It's absolutely ridiculous.

All true but I'm in a giving mood -

I'm thinking let Rodgers have the darn MVP deal -

just give Brees a shot at a second Super Bowl MVP!

fisticuffs
01-06-2012, 09:08 AM
my question is, what record can aaron hang his hat on? 122.5, 15-1, 45-6

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Good point, but it still hasn't answered the question. . .what does it mean to be most valuable player in the league? The player most people want to watch? The player who earns the most in annual salary? The player who has the most endorsements? The player who breaks the most records? The player who plays on the team with the current best record? The current media darling?

You've stated that Rodgers has had "one of the best QB years ever." O.K. By definition, that isn't the best. At least Drew can say he's posted the highest total yard production in the history of the league this year. My question is, what record can Aaron hang his hat on?

New NFL passer rating record: 122.5. Broke Peyton Manning's previous mark set in MVP season of 2004.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 09:18 AM
True - one of the best - but not THE best -

Brees and Brady threw more yards;
I think Brees had a better completion percentage;

and I think the case can be made that Matt Flynn's lights out performance against Detroit undemines Rodgers claim for MVP - Flynn showed that Rodgers wasn't the only straw that could stir that drink - so in that scheme maybe not the MOST valuable player -

I am rethinking my earlier belief that Rodgers had it wrapped up.:p

True, but they could have allowed Rodgers to throw the ball more often late in games. They pulled him very early in blowouts and sat him out more than the other two guys. McCarthy has an old fashioned tendency to take his foot off the pedal in comparison to the other high octane offensive teams.

Fair point about Flynn but that was a pretty banged up Lions secondary he lit up. They haven't been the same since several of their guys went down injured in that Thanksgiving game. Other QB backups like Minnesota's Joe Webb have also lit them up. Plus, it helped Flynn to have Aaron Rodgers act as offensive coordinator and call the first half plays for him. Both McCarthy and Rodgers are proud of their pupil that they helped to groom. Rodgers called a very pass happy game in the first half. The team wanted to do Flynn a favor and let him have a big day so he could get a big Matt Cassel/Kevin Kolb type free agent deal in the offseason.

I think if Brees had beaten Rodgers in the first game of the season and hadn't lost to the Bucs and the Rams (and had gotten the best record/1st seed in the playoffs), he would be the easy fave to win MVP.

DWB1960
01-06-2012, 09:25 AM
122.5, 15-1, 45-6

This. Plus more yards per attempt. And more rushing yards by a wide margin. And how do you choose a guy who had 14 interceptions over a guy that only threw 6?

And here's another way to look at it. Did Rodgers have any bad games that cost his team a win? (and I'm only talking about the guys in contention for MVP here)

Brees had two games where his interceptions had a direct result in the final outcome and the Saints lost both game - to 2-14 St. Louis and 4-12 Tampa Bay. If you are trying to narrow it down between Rodgers and Brees this fact alone is a HUGE black mark on Brees for 2011.

fisticuffs
01-06-2012, 09:36 AM
The Packers take their foot off the gas pedal in pretty much every game they can. Sean Payton runs up the score. It's not an easy thing to measure but its an easy thing to see. As old as the yardage record is it's still just one of many statistics.

coldfingaz
01-06-2012, 09:37 AM
All true but I'm in a giving mood -

I'm thinking let Rodgers have the darn MVP deal -

just give Brees a shot at a second Super Bowl MVP!


LOL!

I'd be saying the same thing if I was in New Orleans!

This debate has gotten a bit nonsensical... they both had amazingly historical seasons & neither one will be getting screwed if they don't get the MVP award.

But, if either wins the Super Bowl that's a far bigger accomplishment anyways... Super Bowl MVP or not!

rmj254
01-06-2012, 09:39 AM
This. Plus more yards per attempt. And more rushing yards by a wide margin. And how do you choose a guy who had 14 interceptions over a guy that only threw 6?

And here's another way to look at it. Did Rodgers have any bad games that cost his team a win? (and I'm only talking about the guys in contention for MVP here)

Brees had two games where his interceptions had a direct result in the final outcome and the Saints lost both game - to 2-14 St. Louis and 4-12 Tampa Bay. If you are trying to narrow it down between Rodgers and Brees this fact alone is a HUGE black mark on Brees for 2011.

Yeah, all of these reasons are why just his yards for the season can't determine who gets the MVP. Both of these guys had a great year, but Rodgers was better.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 10:19 AM
LOL!

I'd be saying the same thing if I was in New Orleans!

This debate has gotten a bit nonsensical... they both had amazingly historical seasons & neither one will be getting screwed if they don't get the MVP award.

But, if either wins the Super Bowl that's a far bigger accomplishment anyways... Super Bowl MVP or not!

Great point. It's tough to remember who won the MVP decades back but it's a lot easier to remember the Super Bowl winners. Sure, Tom Brady had an unbelievable year and won the MVP in 2007 but that loss in the Super Bowl, to the Giants, is what everybody remembers. I think either guy would (albeit reluctantly) trade this years MVP for another ring.

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 10:45 AM
In what games - if any - other than the last - did the Packers sit Rodgers for the fourth quarter?

If I read Flynn's stats right he threw a grand total of 5 passes all year prior to the win over Detroit. Where is the evidence of all this Packers/Rodgers restraint?

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 10:49 AM
Great point. It's tough to remember who won the MVP decades back but it's a lot easier to remember the Super Bowl winners. Sure, Tom Brady had an unbelievable year and won the MVP in 2007 but that loss in the Super Bowl, to the Giants, is what everybody remembers. I think either guy would (albeit HAPPILY) trade this years MVP for another ring.

Fixed it for you -:rotflmao

Who ever gets the MVP - we are lucky to have teams in conversation.

Kitten Cannon
01-06-2012, 10:53 AM
In what games - if any - other than the last - did the Packers sit Rodgers for the fourth quarter?

If I read Flynn's stats right he threw a grand total of 5 passes all year prior to the win over Detroit. Where is the evidence of all this Packers/Rodgers restraint?

Foot off the gas = running the ball more instead of chasing passing yardage records. They put Flynn in for the 4th quarter of the last 2 games Rodgers played, I believe (could be wrong, though). And then of course we all know Flynn carved up the Lionesses by himself.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 10:56 AM
In what games - if any - other than the last - did the Packers sit Rodgers for the fourth quarter?

If I read Flynn's stats right he threw a grand total of 5 passes all year prior to the win over Detroit. Where is the evidence of all this Packers/Rodgers restraint?

Rodgers got pulled early in the Denver, Minnesota, Oakland and Chicago home games. He sat out the entire Lions home game. That's a lot of missed game time. Flynn didn't pass much in those games because he was handing the ball off to kill clock.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 10:58 AM
Fixed it for you -:rotflmao

Who ever gets the MVP - we are lucky to have teams in conversation.

Yeah.

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 11:03 AM
Rodgers got pulled early in the Denver, Minnesota, Oakland and Chicago home games. He sat out the entire Lions home game. That's a lot of missed game time.

I spotted the Lions game - my post was in regard to the repeated claim that he sat out fourth quarters - that the Packers showed restraint - not saying you are the source of the claim - just posts I keep seeing -

Rodgers being pulled early in four games but only long enough for Flynn to throw 5 passes? - isn't all that significant IMHO.

Brees's backup - Chase Daniels - threw exactly 5 passes himself in 2011. The same number thrown by the Flynn prior to the Lions game.

mwc2112
01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
The number of passes a backup QB throws isn't necessarily indicative of the amount of time spent on a field because, barring injury to the starter, they're usually there to kill the clock when the team is way ahead... no real need to pass, just hand it off and let the game tick down.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
I spotted the Lions game - my post was in regard to the repeated claim that he sat out fourth quarters - that the Packers showed restraint - not saying you are the source of the claim - just posts I keep seeing -

Rodgers being pulled early in four games but only long enough for Flynn to throw 5 passes? - isn't all that significant IMHO.

Brees's backup - Chase Daniels - threw exactly 5 passes himself in 2011. The same number thrown by the Flynn prior to the Lions game.

Actually, Rodgers got pulled in the third quarters of a couple of those games. Like I said, Flynn handed off to the backs to kill clock the rest of the way out in those games. Rodgers gets pulled early, Brees stays a little later. One coach keeps throwing, the other takes the air out of the ball. Just a difference in coaching styles. Both get the desired results in terms of wins and losses.

fisticuffs
01-06-2012, 11:08 AM
I spotted the Lions game - my post was in regard to the repeated claim that he sat out fourth quarters - that the Packers showed restraint - not saying you are the source of the claim - just posts I keep seeing

The Packers weren't throwing the ball down field late in games unless they had to. Period. it's a coaches decision and McCarthy has a solid record of it. Even if Flynn wasn't in the game the gameplan changed and became more conservative. Sometimes that allowed other teams back in the game. Sometimes it just shortened the game. Sean Payton doesn't play that way and it's a major factor in the difference in yardage between the two. 25% more passing attempts. That's why.

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 11:11 AM
The Packers weren't throwing the ball down field late in games unless they had to. Period. it's a coaches decision and McCarthy has a solid record of it. Even if Flynn wasn't in the game the gameplan changed and became more conservative. Sometimes that allowed other teams back in the game. Sometimes it just shortened the game. Sean Payton doesn't play that way and it's a major factor in the difference in yardage between the two. 25% more passing attempts. That's why.

Yeah, if anything McCarthy becomes conservative to a fault, during blowouts. Sometimes the other teams actually got back into the game because the Packers went into a shell and took it easy on them. Ugh. The San Diego game comes to mind. The Chicago home game ended up closer than expected after they pulled Rodgers, even though he threw 5 TD's in that game. Plus, the Green Bay defense wound up being the worst in the league, which didn't help at all. That will be the one thing that could keep Green Bay from winning another title this year.

Sidney Vicious
01-06-2012, 11:14 AM
:horse

Lets get the games on -

You guys know the Packers better than I - just trying to make sense of it all - and if I can yank some chains in the process? SWEET!

fisticuffs
01-06-2012, 11:18 AM
But are you saying in these third and fourth quarters the Packers were three and out?

Sometimes.

Or their running game is better than we have been lead to believe?

Nope. See above.

Or their defense is better than we have been lead to believe?

Doesn't have anything do with it.

The Packers run more, albeit not very successfully, when they get ahead. They throw shorter passes when they get ahead. The Saints don't seem to stop with the long ball regardless of the game situation. McCarthy as said above to a fault plays to shorten the game when they have a decent lead. I'm not sure what statistic would point this out definitively but as a lifelong Packer fan who never misses a game I've seen it with my eyes more than enough times to know it's true. Is there a way to look up a stat for yardage in the 4th quarter between the two?

VoodooBlues
01-06-2012, 11:19 AM
You guys know the Packers better than I - just trying to make sense of it all - and if I can yank some chains the process? SWEET!

But are you saying in these third and fourth quarters the Packers were three and out?

Or their running game is better than we have been lead to believe?

Or their defense is better than we have been lead to believe?

A lot of time they went three and out and gave the ball back. Very old fashioned. I think Flynn actually got a rushing touchdown in the home game against the Vikings though. The GB running game is nothing to write home about. They only try to rush the ball in volume, when they're up by a lot of points but it doesn't usually work very well. They wound up ranked 27th in the league, compared to the Saints who finished 6th in rushing. And then the defense ALWAYS subsequently gave up points at the end of games. It seemed like a lot of games went that way this year. Don't even get me started on the defense. You know it's bad when they wound up being dead last, behind even the Patriots. It's why IMO Green Bay is vulnerable to an upset in any playoff game this year.

Kitten Cannon
01-06-2012, 11:25 AM
:horse

Lets get the games on -

You guys know the Packers better than I - just trying to make sense of it all - and if I can yank some chains in the process? SWEET!

Or their running game is better than we have been lead to believe?

Or their defense is better than we have been lead to believe?


I do think their running game and their defense are better than anyone's been lead to believe. They haven't used the running game much since it hasn't really been all that necessary, but if you look at the running backs, James Starks over the 2011 season averaged 4.3 yards per carry, and Ryan Grant has averaged 4.2. That's pretty solid, even though it hasn't amounted a ton of overall yardage (due to fewer attempts). I find these averages pretty impressive given that most of the running occurs late in the game when the opposing defenses know exactly what to expect. But make no mistake about it, GB has weapons in the backfield.

Given Rodgers' avg yards per pass, they're basically averaging a 1st down (and a lot of change) every two downs they either run the ball or complete a pass over the course of the season.

As for the defense, I've been saying this for a while now, but it's a fairly high risk/high reward scheme they're running, and they do it because they CAN. They've kicked ass at ending drives with interceptions. They've had a few games where the defense really showed up, and a few where it hasn't been so great, but all in all, I don't see it as the achilles heel that everyone else keeps talking about, although I could certainly see the potential for that as the playoffs go forward. Provided, of course, they play smart and stay healthy.

Like everyone else, I can't wait to see what happens. I think these playoffs are going to be really fun to watch.

partytrain
01-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Rodgers got 47.5 out of 50 votes for all-pro team by ap (same people picking MVP)...Brees got 2.5

fisticuffs
01-06-2012, 01:16 PM
Rodgers got 47.5 out of 50 votes for all-pro team by ap (same people picking MVP)...Brees got 2.5

Yep. Any other year it would be Brees in a landslide. Or Brady who also broke the record. All 3 for MVP or Rodgers alone. Those seem to be the two best options.

Rusty G.
01-06-2012, 02:32 PM
I think if Brees had beaten Rodgers in the first game of the season and hadn't lost to the Bucs and the Rams (and had gotten the best record/1st seed in the playoffs), he would be the easy fave to win MVP.


Really. . .Well, according to the box scores, Drew threw for 396 yards and Aaron threw for 296. The fact that the New Orleans Offensive Coordinator called for a run with a rookie back on the last play of the game from the 1/2 yard line instead of putting the ball in the hands of Drew Brees shouldn't cost Drew the MVP.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=310908009

Check out the box score from ESPN.

Kitten Cannon
01-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Really. . .Well, according to the box scores, Drew threw for 396 yards and Aaron threw for 296. The fact that the New Orleans Offensive Coordinator called for a run with a rookie back on the last play of the game from the 1/2 yard line instead of putting the ball in the hands of Drew Brees shouldn't cost Drew the MVP.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=310908009

Check out the box score from ESPN.

I don't understand how that matters. If you ONLY look at the single last play, sure, maybe the picture looks different, but he still didn't get them into the end zone before that point, and the end result was that GB won the game, which trumps pretty much every other stat collected that day.

partytrain
02-04-2012, 06:57 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/04/rodgers-wins-mvp-in-a-landslide/

48/50 votes.

this debate is officially in the books

jbird
02-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Well, he got AP's offensive player of the year! That's OK, next year will be something more to be remembered...When the Saints are the 1st team in history to win a Superbowl in their house!

Craig Walker
02-05-2012, 01:39 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/04/rodgers-wins-mvp-in-a-landslide/

48/50 votes.

this debate is officially in the books




Just like Drew, he's watching. I'd rather be in Eli's or Brady's shoes.


And the Offensive MVP is stupid. How can you be the best offensive player, yet not the MVP? They should award The MVP, and then whatever side of the ball that wasn't MVP. i.e., if a defensive player wins, THEN you have an offensive MVP.

cratz2
02-05-2012, 02:05 PM
I don't know, I think you can have separate offensive and defensive players of the year AND a separate MVP. Rodgers had an outstanding year... one of the 10 best any QB has ever had and possibly in the top 2 or 3, but I do think that Flynn's game showed that Rodgers isn't the league MVP.

I mean, the two front-runners of the league MVP were both stopped largely by unknown to semi-unknown players in the playoffs.

This year, I honestly don't know to whom I would have awarded the MVP award. SOO many great performances this year but honestly, I would have gone against the grain and voted for Peyton Manning. I know it would never happen and a player that doesn't play isn't likely to get many votes, but I absolutely feel that this season has shown that Peyton Manning is the MVP in the league.

Which other team has one player so indispensable? Clearly not Rodgers and probably not Brady. Both teams won in impressive fashion over the last few years when the QBs were injured or taking the game off. The Giants run game and pass defense are major contributors to that team's success this year and even Suggs... as impressive as he is, I don't know how you can single him out on a team with Lewis and Reed. But Peyton... with him, we were an annual playoff caliber team and without him we were the worst in the league and I don't think we lost many game on purpose.

That's my take anyway.

cratz2
02-05-2012, 02:08 PM
And the Offensive MVP is stupid. How can you be the best offensive player, yet not the MVP? They should award The MVP, and then whatever side of the ball that wasn't MVP. i.e., if a defensive player wins, THEN you have an offensive MVP.

And not to split hairs, but Rodgers won MVP, not offensive or defensive but 'Most Valuable Player. Suggs and Brees won their respective 'Players of the Year, not 'Most Valuable Player. I'd have voted for Brees Offensive Player of the Year without hesitation. League MVP... probably not.

Kitten Cannon
02-05-2012, 02:12 PM
Flynn's game proved nothing more than the fact that Flynn is also a hell of a quarterback and clearly GB's coaching is doing something right in that category.

stvnscott
02-05-2012, 02:14 PM
I don't know, I think you can have separate offensive and defensive players of the year AND a separate MVP. Rodgers had an outstanding year... one of the 10 best any QB has ever had and possibly in the top 2 or 3, but I do think that Flynn's game showed that Rodgers isn't the league MVP.

Flynn showed that Rodgers did not have a stellar year by playing well in a single game?

:huh

mge80
02-05-2012, 03:31 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/04/rodgers-wins-mvp-in-a-landslide/

48/50 votes.

this debate is officially in the books

This was a foregone conclusion when Rodgers was voted the QB on the "All Pro" team by a similar margin.

And not to split hairs, but Rodgers won MVP, not offensive or defensive but 'Most Valuable Player. Suggs and Brees won their respective 'Players of the Year, not 'Most Valuable Player. I'd have voted for Brees Offensive Player of the Year without hesitation. League MVP... probably not.

This is exactly correct. And it really isn't splitting hairs. "Most Valuable Player" and "Player of the Year" are distinctly different, and Craig did misname it above by saying Drew Brees won the "Offensive MVP", which is incorrect.

Craig Walker
02-05-2012, 09:00 PM
I'd have voted for Brees Offensive Player of the Year without hesitation. League MVP... probably not.


What did Rodgers do to earn MVP that didn't have something to do with offense?


He should have won offensive MVP too.

Craig Walker
02-05-2012, 09:03 PM
Mis-typed on Off MVP, I know it's Offensive POY.

I still see no difference. If you're the MVP and you play offense, you should be the Off POY.

cratz2
02-05-2012, 09:40 PM
Flynn showed that Rodgers did not have a stellar year by playing well in a single game?

:huh

Well... work with me here. I'm not saying anything against Rodgers. He is the QB I'd take if I were putting together a team, slightly over Brees or Brady but yeah... I think in that one game that Rodgers is NOT the MVP. If the backup can essentially show that the team can win against a very capable Detriot team... yeah, I'd say that game help make the argument that, amazing though he clearly is, Rodgers is not the MVP and he was replaceable.

And honestly, I don't even think I'm going out on a limb here... I think it's a solid argument. Clearly though the experts agree with you, thus the award.

The Golden Boy
02-06-2012, 09:17 AM
Well... work with me here. I'm not saying anything against Rodgers. He is the QB I'd take if I were putting together a team, slightly over Brees or Brady but yeah... I think in that one game that Rodgers is NOT the MVP. If the backup can essentially show that the team can win against a very capable Detriot team... yeah, I'd say that game help make the argument that, amazing though he clearly is, Rodgers is not the MVP and he was replaceable.


Keep in mind that "very capable Detroit team" lost to every team with a winning record.

Kind of like Andy Kaufman's undefeated streak at wrestling women.