Axe 2 going back-Kemper staying

[sheguitarplayer]

I recently received both an axefx2 and a Kemper KPA.
After spending a few days with them Ive decided the Kemper is staying and the axe2 is going back.
The axe2 is a great unit. Ive owned both a standard and an ultra in the past for about 3 years total so Im well versed in the operation of them.
I do think the axe 2 is a step uo from the previous versions but for my use the KPA is much more useful.
I hated spending hours with the axefx (and any other modellers) tweaking to get what I consider to be a 'realistic' amp sound. Some users much more capable than I have had more success in this regard, but I find the process of tweaking for hours to get a realistic amp sound and feel very frustrating.
Profiling my own amps with the Kemper has been very easy and any (very slight) difference in the profiled amp is so negligible to be of no consequence.
What I have found is that 'disabling' the speaker part of the profile and routing the KPA to a fratomic amp then onto my amps cab sounds almost just like the original, and more importantly. it feels and plays just like it.
The KPA features some very powerful controls to effectively change your profiled amps and cabs and the 'definition; control which makes the amp sound more vintage or modern is unbelievable.
Many of the profiles included with the KPA are very good indeed but profiling your own/friends amps is IMHO the way to go if you are a traditional type guy used to getting your sound from a tube amp.
The effects on the axefx2 are stellar and the routing capabilities are unsurpassed.
The effects on the KPA while being nowhere near as comprehensive are very good indeed and way more than I realistically need. I am mainly a live player, not that interested in recording.
Lastly the user interface, on the axefx this hasn't changed much other than the extra 'Quick Control' knobs. Not pretty in a live/rehearsal context where rapid changes may be necessary. Many may think this is not too much of a problem after many hours tweaking, but that takes us back to an earlier point.
The KPA may not appeal to many in the appearance stakes, but all those extra knobs/soft switches make it a breeze to use after just a few minutes operation
So my final decision wasn't really that hard to be honest.
The axefx2 is a great unit and a step up from the original units.
The KPA is for my use a much better fit and almost half the price, so its goodbye axe, hello Kemper.

[Jahn]

Since you have both, is it possible for you to dial up every Axe 2 combo you can think of...then profile them with the Kemper before returning it? Just wondering if the Kemper works like that too.

[Ben R]

Thanks for sharing. Good luck with it.

Different people have different needs and wants. If one works better for you, then that's what you should stick with. It sounds like you're a "set it and forget it" type of person who plays live shows with minimal effects and has no interest in recording. Maybe the Kemper is enough for you.

For me, I never found tweaking the Fractal units to be a big deal, or any big chore. And, personally, I find with FRFR units that once you get your sounds to work well direct, there isn't / shouldn't be any reason to have to tweak on the fly at a live show. Your experience may vary. But, I've never had to adjust any of my Axe FX Ultra patches while at any live show. Once my tones and volume levels for each patch were good in relation to each other, they work well everywhere I play.

Having said all of that, have fun with your Kemper.

.

[zentman]

Burn the witch with fire!!! Just kidding. :)

[mwc2112]

The KPA is for my use a much better fit and almost half the price, so its goodbye axe, hello Kemper.

Half the price? Are you located overseas? I know for the U.S. the Kemper price is creeping closer to AxeII (w/ coupon) price.

Anyway, congrats... the 'much better fit' is really what's important and it was great you got a chance to hash them both out before deciding. :p

[Johnny Vox]

Since you have both, is it possible for you to dial up every Axe 2 combo you can think of...then profile them with the Kemper before returning it? Just wondering if the Kemper works like that too.

I have no interest in buying the Kemper but I am curious if it can do this as well.

[sheguitarplayer]

Half the price? Are you located overseas? I know for the U.S. the Kemper price is creeping closer to AxeII (w/ coupon) price.

Anyway, congrats... the 'much better fit' is really what's important and it was great you got a chance to hash them both out before deciding. :p

Yeah, Im in the UK.
Kemper £1168.00 (from Thomann UK)
axefx 2 £1931.93 (from G66eu)

[zentman]

Yeah, Im in the UK.
Kemper £1168.00 (from Thomann UK)
axefx 2 £1931.93 (from G66eu)

How much is that in real people money? ....again with the kidding. :)

[desdinova]

"Overseas" is such a relative term now, isn't it. :sarcasm

[Justin Thyme]

Pretty sure the Kemper can profile the very best tones from the Axe II. I think I remember Dan doing this in one of his threads. People are finally catching on!!! As amazing as the AXE is (and it is) - the Kemper can profile your favorite tones from the Axe!!!! - along with any other tube amp that is out there (assuming somebody effectively profiles it).

[NickCormier]

Pretty sure the Kemper can profile the very best tones from the Axe II. I think I remember Dan doing this in one of his threads. People are finally catching on!!! As amazing as the AXE is (and it is) - the Kemper can profile your favorite tones from the Axe!!!! - along with any other tube amp that is out there (assuming somebody effectively profiles it).

Haha thats hillarious; buy an Axe-FX II and a Kemper.. make 15 patches of the Axe and profile them on your Kemper, then sell the AFX II for $3000 on ebay.. You profit from the AFX II waiting list, yet still get the axe-fx sounds in your Kemper.

win-win!

[desdinova]

It just can't do my favorite churchy tones though and that's my dilemma. Viola, huge space double delays etc.

Zent I've heard your tones and you are right; Kemper (by itself and at THIS point) cannot touch the Axe effects-wise.

In the marketplace though, there is always a "lowest common denominator" or "the average user" if you wish. From what I gather, perhaps 80% of potential customers can live without the Axe magnificent effects but most of them are more preoccupied with getting a "realistic amp tone".

That, and the company profile of Kemper lead me to assume that the KPA shall outsell the Axe-II in Europe (you know, "overseas") by a margin of at least 20 to 1. In the US (again "overseas") it will be probably closer to 2:1 or 3:1. This will completely change the rules of the game.

For instance, can you imagine TheGearPage with 20 times as many Kemper fanbois as Fractal ones? :p

Nah, just kidding. I can't see the time to test both, side by side (which will be soon, as I'm told).

[stratzrus]

I recently received both an axefx2 and a Kemper KPA. After spending a few days with them Ive decided the Kemper is staying and the axe2 is going back.Your reasons seemed to make sense given your particulars and your post was exemplary in the balanced way in which you described each unit from personal experience.

Best of luck with your KPA and we'll look forward to hearing what you are able to accomplish with it if you chose to post some clips. :aok

[Earl Mobile]

i had the same situation. axe II and kpa. it took only a few minutes to decide that i keep the kpa. IMHO the sound is at another level. i liked the fact that it has less options to tweak the sound, but the few knobs do so much to the sound its unbelievable. i can turn a clean fender profile in to a brutal metal amp with a few twists and turns.

[Hoth]

I think the Kemper release is imminent as the hardcore hype posts are coming fast and furious :). Just kidding! Thanks very much for your good breakdowns of the two for your purposes. I am sure once it's released there will be a lot of of Kemper fanbois on here. Honestly, I hope that's the case. Competition is always good.

[stratzrus]

...can you imagine TheGearPage with 20 times as many Kemper fanbois as Fractal ones? :pOh, the humanity!!!!


http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldc9k4erFL1qza49co1_500.png

[jabelardo]

I think the Kemper release is imminent as the hardcore hype posts are coming fast and furious :). Just kidding! Thanks very much for your good breakdowns of the two for your purposes. I am sure once it's released there will be a lot of of Kemper fanbois on here. Honestly, I hope that's the case. Competition is always good.

it's already been released you know?

[donbarzini]

men with the Kemper will be playing more with many good tones rather than tweaking more to try and get one good tone

[timowens316]

I recently received both an axefx2 and a Kemper KPA...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, I really appreciate reading about your experience with both units.

[RayRay]

it's already been released you know?

Well, I guess technically, yes. Though it wasn't with the full worldwide availability that was touted... though I think I read that Sweetwater recently received a whole six units. So, yeah, I guess it's *technically* "released"

men with the Kemper will be playing more with many good tones rather than tweaking more to try and get one good tone

Flame bait much? WTF?

[donbarzini]

Flame bait much? WTF?

many men will understand once they play the HD500

[ejecta]

Flame bait much? WTF?

Don doesn't need to bait to be able to attract a flame. He's very handsome.

I see you are attracted to him.

[toasterdude]

Well, I guess technically, yes. Though it wasn't with the full worldwide availability that was touted... though I think I read that Sweetwater recently received a whole six units. So, yeah, I guess it's *technically* "released"



Flame bait much? WTF?

How long did it take for the Axe II to be available in countries besides US?

Since KPA is based in Europe it was available there first. Makes sense.

KPA also appears to be working with an actual reseller channel as there have been reports of a few resellers getting them in. If sweetwater received 6, a hundred other resellers may have received a few each. . . .

Fractal sells direct, and through a complicated gauntlet of wait lists, coupons, etc etc etc. When did you consider the Axe II "technically" shipping?

[RayRay]

many men are confused about what is going on. this one included. :D

many men would be much better guitarists if they didn't tweak words to post on forums. this one included. :D

[guitarnet70]

Thomann ship it in 2-5 days (and they had a backlog of 50) and Musicstore have it in store....I would say it is shipping...at least here.

[RayRay]

How long did it take for the Axe II to be available in countries besides US?

Since KPA is based in Europe it was available there first. Makes sense.

KPA also appears to be working with an actual reseller channel as there have been reports of a few resellers getting them in. If sweetwater received 6, a hundred other resellers may have received a few each. . . .

Fractal sells direct, and through a complicated gauntlet of wait lists, coupons, etc etc etc. When did you consider the Axe II "technically" shipping?

Hey... he just said it was released. And I agreed that technically it was released, just not with the immediate worldwide availability like was touted.

And FWIW, there isn't a complicated gauntlet of wait lists or coupons... it's really easy. If you want to save a few hundred dollars, get on a wait list for a coupon and get contacted when your number comes up. Neither complicated nor a gauntlet. Maybe that is just hard for some people to understand...

[Black Squirrel]

I dont care what anybody says, There is a BOUNTY of amazing tones in the Axe Fx II. The KPA is not going to make anyone's Axe Fx Sound different.

[axelicker]

Haha thats hillarious; buy an Axe-FX II and a Kemper.. make 15 patches of the Axe and profile them on your Kemper, then sell the AFX II for $3000 on ebay.. You profit from the AFX II waiting list, yet still get the axe-fx sounds in your Kemper.

win-win!

Only problem is you'll need weeks/months to dial in those patches.

[guitarnet70]

Only problem is you'll need weeks/months to dial in those patches.

:rotflmao

[Dr Git]

I'm getting a laugh a minute here....you guys rock....lol

[donbarzini]

I'm getting a laugh a minute here....you guys rock....lol

many men are filled with laughter in the rain

[Scott Peterson]

Only problem is you'll need weeks/months to dial in those patches.

I can dial that patch in 5 minutes... or less. ;) :D

[SteveO]

I can dial that patch in 5 minutes... or less. ;) :D

Scott... Dial that patch!!!!


Geez, the fact that I even caught that one makes me feel OLD....

[Justin Thyme]

I strongly encourage the Axe FX II guys to work on their very best patches and tones!!!! Honestly - please do it (for all of us). Take your time. I don't care how long it takes to dial them in. I hope they sound nothing short of spectacular!!!!! I have heard many that do. Axe Fx is an amazing tool.

.....I look forward to having the Kemper profile them when you are finished.

[mmcm4]

I strongly encourage the Axe FX II guys to work on their very best patches and tones!!!! Honestly - please do it (for all of us). Take your time. I don't care how long it takes to dial them in. I hope they sound nothing short of spectacular!!!!! I have heard many that do. Axe Fx is an amazing tool.

.....I look forward to having the Kemper profile them when you are finished.

The Kemper can't magically capture any AxeFX-II patch. It can capture things like the Amp/Cab, but not things like Delays and Reverbs. It's these things that make a lot of the AxeFX patches so great.

[Amitar]

How many preloaded profiles came with your Kemper and what amps are they?

[Justin Thyme]

No question, the Axe has superior fx (which you can't profile) - and I think most people can definitely live with that in my opinion. The Edge may disagree. In my experience, guitar players want a great core tone (typically through a pushed tube amp), followed by minimal effects (slight reverb, if that....a splash of chorus from time to time....and some delay in the loop). So in these cases, I think the Kemper is a great solution. If you can live without the Axe "FX", you will probably be happy with the Kemper.

[cobbler]

I really don't get all the talk about all the tweaking needed on the Axe. Sure you can spend a lot of time in the advanced params but many like myself rarely find a need to even touch them. I am a relative newbie to the guitar world and only have played on an original 65 Deluxe Reverb before trying the Axe and I can dial in a patch on any of the amps in less than 10 mins. Weeks? Months? Seems excessive to me.

As for the OP... Sounds like you made the correct choice for your needs. Congrats and I hope you find nothing but success with it.

[mmcm4]

...If you can live without the Axe "FX", you will probably be happy with the Kemper.

This is absolutely true.

For me personally, I couldn't live without the delays and reverbs (especially the multitap). They are killer and help me as a P&W player to fill out the space a little bit more when I'm the only guitarist.

[jzgtrguy]

Can Kemper users share profiles? Say for instance that you have a profile of an amp I like. Is there a data base or exchange where users can swap profiles?

[m~Dan]

No question, the Axe has superior fx

I wouldn't agree with that. The Axe is more flexible and can do much more for sure... but the effectsquality is very good on the Kemper too. I like the drive pedals more then the ones in the Axe2. On the other hand... some Axe-FX effects are better the the KPA ones :)

[DADA]

I recently received both an axefx2 and a Kemper KPA.

Thanks for your opinion and informing us on your decision keeping the KPA.

i had the same situation. axe II and kpa. it took only a few minutes to decide that i keep the kpa. IMHO the sound is at another level. i liked the fact that it has less options to tweak the sound, but the few knobs do so much to the sound its unbelievable. i can turn a clean fender profile in to a brutal metal amp with a few twists and turns.

If this is the case the sounds or not on par. Is the difference that big that the Kemper blows the AFX out of the water?

For me it is the profiling ability that is the game changer. For the first time we guitarplayers can decide which amps we want to play with. And altough I can dial in patches in a few minutes on my Ultra (after 1year of intensive reading trying and testing) I do not have to anymore. And do not forget better tones for almost the half the price!

And then the effects. Yes they are very good on the AFX but I only use some reverb, delays, chorus, phases, wah. And these can also be found on the KPA.

So with the KPA the AFX has now become a boutique effects unit.

[monsta]

The king is dead, long live the king....

[guitarnet70]

Can Kemper users share profiles? Say for instance that you have a profile of an amp I like. Is there a data base or exchange where users can swap profiles?

Kemper is busy setting up a user forum, at the moment the first users are just exchanging files directly (very easy, the files are small)

[stratzrus]

I really don't get all the talk about all the tweaking needed on the Axe. Sure you can spend a lot of time in the advanced params but many like myself rarely find a need to even touch them. I am a relative newbie to the guitar world and only have played on an original 65 Deluxe Reverb before trying the Axe and I can dial in a patch on any of the amps in less than 10 mins. Weeks? Months? Seems excessive to me.That was the old paradigm. With firmware 11 on Gen 1 units and with the Axe II great tone can be dialed in quickly. Those without access to the latest versions often speak from memory or past experience.

The king is dead, long live the king....That's a bit of a stretch, the Axe II is still doing very well and offers things that the KPA does not. Each unit will appeal to different people for different reasons. It's a good thing that players now have the option of two top tier modelers.

As Mark Twain said, "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

[Ben R]

My gosh. the more things change here, the more they stay the same.

I have never seen one group of users of any product get bashed and hammered as consistently as the Axe FX users. Every group of people on this set of forums who use other products has taken their fair share of shots. Why the hatred amongst users of other gear? I never understood it. First, it was tube amp snobs. Then, it was the Elevn Rack guys. Then, it was the Pod HD users. Now, it's the Kemper guys. (I wonder if these have been the same people as they jump through trying all of that gear?) The crazy thing is that the Axe FX users have always been civil and pretty much never take unprovoked shots at other gear (or its users). It's 100% the opposite, though, coming from the other direction. Everyone tees off on the Fractal guys. I suppose that it's like following sports teams. Everyone hates the guy who's always finishing in first place. The difference here, though, is that people can have one of their own. If the perception is that the Axe FX has consistently been the best (or among the best) product, why don't these people just go and buy one? They don't. They choose to rip it down.

.

[guitarnet70]

The king is dead, long live the king....

...they both look to be quite healthy...a transition to democracy, maybe? :sarcasm

[Black Squirrel]

My gosh. the more things change here, the more they stay the same.

I have never seen one group of users of any product get bashed and hammered as consistently as the Axe FX users. Every group of people on this set of forums who use other products has taken their fair share of shots. Why the hatred amongst users of other gear? I never understood it. First, it was tube amp snobs. Then, it was the Elevn Rack guys. Then, it was the Pod HD users. Now, it's the Kemper guys. The crazy thing is that the Axe FX users have always been civil and pretty much never take unprovoked shots at other gear. It's 100% the opposite, though. Everyone tees off on the Fractal guys. I suppose that it's like following sports teams. Everyone hates the guy who's always finishing in first place. The difference here, though, is that people can have one. If the perception is that the Axe FX has consistently been the best (or among the best) product, why don't these people just go and buy one? They don't. They choose to rip it down.

.

i don't read much bashing here. it seems alot of people who are stating their opinions are former fractal users. The axe 2 is a mind blowing piece of gear but it is not for everyone. now there is another team on the field.

its good for everyone.

[sheguitarplayer]

My gosh. the more things change here, the more they stay the same.

I have never seen one group of users of any product get bashed and hammered as consistently as the Axe FX users. Every group of people on this set of forums who use other products has taken their fair share of shots. Why the hatred amongst users of other gear? I never understood it. First, it was tube amp snobs. Then, it was the Elevn Rack guys. Then, it was the Pod HD users. Now, it's the Kemper guys. (I wonder if these have been the same people as they jump through trying all of that gear?) The crazy thing is that the Axe FX users have always been civil and pretty much never take unprovoked shots at other gear (or its users). It's 100% the opposite, though, coming from the other direction. Everyone tees off on the Fractal guys. I suppose that it's like following sports teams. Everyone hates the guy who's always finishing in first place. The difference here, though, is that people can have one of their own. If the perception is that the Axe FX has consistently been the best (or among the best) product, why don't these people just go and buy one? They don't. They choose to rip it down.

.
I certainly wasn't bashing the axefx. Ive owned both a standard and an ultra for several years. I simply preferred the Kemper over the axefx 2 for my use for the reasons I stated. I tried to be balanced in my OP, and only made the post in the first place as I had been asked to make a comparison by other members who knew I would have access to both units.
Sorry if Ive offended anyone, that was not my intention.

[Ben R]

sheguitarplayer,

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the jabs taken by others at how long they suggest it takes to get a patch to sound good on an Axe FX II. ...and, then the snickering replies with smilies rolling around on the floor in laughter, etc.

It's typical here.

There's no "offending" going on, really. That type of stuff is just irritating after a while.

.

[burningyen]

My gosh. the more things change here, the more they stay the same.

I have never seen one group of users of any product get bashed and hammered as consistently as the Axe FX users. Every group of people on this set of forums who use other products has taken their fair share of shots. Why the hatred amongst users of other gear? I never understood it. First, it was tube amp snobs. Then, it was the Elevn Rack guys. Then, it was the Pod HD users. Now, it's the Kemper guys. (I wonder if these have been the same people as they jump through trying all of that gear?) The crazy thing is that the Axe FX users have always been civil and pretty much never take unprovoked shots at other gear (or its users). It's 100% the opposite, though, coming from the other direction. Everyone tees off on the Fractal guys. I suppose that it's like following sports teams. Everyone hates the guy who's always finishing in first place. The difference here, though, is that people can have one of their own. If the perception is that the Axe FX has consistently been the best (or among the best) product, why don't these people just go and buy one? They don't. They choose to rip it down.
I had to re-read the thread to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Where in this thread are you seeing "hammering" and "bashing" of AxeFX users or "hatred"? All I see are a few criticisms of the amount of work some people seem to need to get the tones they want. You seem to take these threads very personally, I don't get it.

[guitarnet70]

sheguitarplayer,

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the jabs taken by others at how long they suggest it takes to get a patch to sound good on an Axe FX II. ...and, then the snickering replies with smilies rolling around on the floor in laughter, etc.

It's typical here.

There's no "offending" going on, really. That type of stuff is just irritating after a while.

.

The smilie was my one and I've posted it because I've find the previous post funny, no bashing intended. FWIW I'm on the G66 waiting list for the Axe II since May and just got an e-mail from Jacques Isler stating that my one will be on the next shipment. Really looking forward to put them both trough my setup and get the goodness.... Let's see

[Ben R]

burningyen,

There is a common thread in most of the topics here, where people take subtle or overt shots at the Axf FX (I/Ultra/II) and its users. It's been going on for years. Anyone who's been reading topics here for the last 4 or 5 years consistently will understand what I'm talking about.

Look - I can go out and buy a Kemper if I want to. I can go out and buy an Axe FX II if I want to. Whichever device will work best for me is what I'll buy. I'm merely pointing out that stuff like this goes on. There may have only been a reply or 2 in this thread that relates to what I'm talking about. And, if you didn't see it everywhere else and hadn't seen it so many times over the years, you'd probably think, "What is he talking about? What is the big deal?" It's a big picture thing that's always there if you know what you're looking for. I realize that my words are a tree falling in the woods right now. And, that's fine.

As you were.

.

[Blanket Jackson]

I once played an amp from this guy Howard something-or-other, and it took me like FOREVER to dial in a good tone. Met the guy in his house and everything. Not knocking him, but I expect an amp to speak to me immediately. I'm going back to my Behringer rig. Now THEY know a thing or two about giving the user what they want.

:sarcasm

[ejecta]

I had to re-read the thread to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Where in this thread are you seeing "hammering" and "bashing" of AxeFX users or "hatred"? All I see are a few criticisms of the amount of work some people seem to need to get the tones they want. You seem to take these threads very personally, I don't get it.

Some make mountains out of molehills.

[guittarzzan]

To the OP: I do mainly just recording and from the clips I've heard, while listening through good studio monitors, it SEEMS to my ears that I can hear a bit more detail of the strings hitting the frets and the personality of the guitar on the Kemper clips.
I too am way more interested in real, fat 3D sounding raw guitar tone than big chains of effects. As an AxefxII owner, I am still amazed with it and how powerful it is as well as Cliff's constant envelope pushing, but for this 30 second period at least, it sounds to me that the Kemper has a slight edge in the "real" department. I'll find out in a month or so when I have one in my grubby little hands. :)

If I were in a band, I wouldn't think twice about the Axefx2. It's a no brainer. Great sound, awesome flexibility and every effect I'd ever need live...oh and it's rack mountable. Would have loved to see a Kemper racked version before the Kemper space ship control console version. :)

[Pick909]

"the Axe FX users have always been civil and pretty much never take unprovoked shots at other gear (or its users)."
.

Sorry but this one made me smile a little bit... ;)

I share your opinion about the total stupidity of fanboys battles but I think that AFX users are no better in this department than any others.

Pierre

[ejecta]

I share your opinion about the total stupidity of fanboys battles but I think that AFX users are no better in this department than any others.


:agree

[DADA]

And another derailment is taking place. What did they say??? Oh yeah..
- It is just gear
- And profiling is inferiour to modeling
So friendly, civil, well educated... Cut the Crap!

[Scott Peterson]

Dada lecturing about thread derailment... :spit

[mtmartin71]

I'll mostly be interested in the reports from live users of this product. I don't care much about the recorded clips. How does the KPA perform live, through FRFR, vs. a dialed in AxeFX II. That's what I'm using now. The AxeFX II in a live environment. Well, actually I know the answer. I'd be splitting hairs. I already know that I could use a dialed in POD HD500 and my bar/club audience wouldn't care. I can't imagine that a KPA is magnitudes better than the Axe II especially when you consider the HD 500 vs. Axe II thread earlier and what people believe. So, the question is why would you unload your Axe II investment to get a KPA for live use. That would be the question I'd have to "axe" myself. For the OP or someone getting them both to compare without the initial investment, that's a different story and I get the thought process in that. If I were coming at it new, frankly, the KPA is more intriguing to me because I'm not an effects guy per se and I'd like the thought of selecting the amps that interested me vs. a bunch of hardcore metal influenced amps I won't ever use. Make no mistake though...the Axe FX II is a quality piece of gear with a committed support structure and it currently gives me all that I need.

[DADA]

Dada lecturing about thread derailment... :spit

Correct, I have some experiences and see it very quickly. BTW where did the post of OIO or IOI or OIIO go?

I am back on topic

[mattball826]

I'll mostly be interested in the reports from live users of this product. I don't care much about the recorded clips. How does the KPA perform live, through FRFR, vs. a dialed in AxeFX II. That's what I'm using now. The AxeFX II in a live environment. Well, actually I know the answer. I'd be splitting hairs. I already know that I could use a dialed in POD HD500 and my bar/club audience wouldn't care. I can't imagine that a KPA is magnitudes better than the Axe II especially when you consider the HD 500 vs. Axe II thread earlier and what people believe. So, the question is why would you unload your Axe II investment to get a KPA for live use. That would be the question I'd have to "axe" myself. For the OP or someone getting them both to compare without the initial investment, that's a different story and I get the thought process in that. If I were coming at it new, frankly, the KPA is more intriguing to me because I'm not an effects guy per se and I'd like the thought of selecting the amps that interested me vs. a bunch of hardcore metal influenced amps I won't ever use. Make no mistake though...the Axe FX II is a quality piece of gear with a committed support structure and it currently gives me all that I need.

likewise. i rather see some video of this live in band with one guitar having kpa and other a real amp. any amp modeler can work with single guitar player. i use the gsp in my other band. nobody cares. in my main band of 9-15 musicians, they do care.

[Scott Peterson]

Correct, I have some experiences and see it very quickly. BTW where did the post of OIO or IOI or OIIO go?

I am back on topic

/moderator hat on

OIO has been deleting his own posts by his own choice.

/moderator hat off

[stratzrus]

...why would you unload your Axe II investment to get a KPA for live use?The common points made by KPA owners is that they like being able to easily replicate the tone of amps that they like, and live players have mentioned liking having knobs available for easy adjustment on the fly.

The KPA's form factor and lack of proprietary footswitch would give me pause but is apparently not a concern for some others.

The very few reports I have read about the KPA's performance in a live context were positive but I have heard clips where others raved about the tone that left me feeling lukewarm so I'd really want to hear it for myself rather than take someone's word for it being stellar on stage.

[fremen]

On a French forum I've read reports of the Kemper rebooting itself (and the boot time = 50 seconds) while trying to switch presets with a MIDI pedal, and also a small cut in sound between presets. Anyone here noticed that ?

[forum_crawler]

The KPA's form factor and lack of proprietary footswitch would give me pause but is apparently not a concern for some others.


I honestly fail to see how this is an issue. There are many excellent solutions for midi controlled rigs out there. The GCP comes to mind, quite the mature platform if you ask me. Sure, perhaps not as fancy as other options out there, but I am sure it's track record speaks volumes.

Form factor issues: I completely agree. I am not a fan at all of the lunchbox/camry dash look of the Kemper.

Foot switch: Not an issue at all.

[stratzrus]

I honestly fail to see how this is an issue. There are many excellent solutions for midi controlled rigs out there. The GCP comes to mind, quite the mature platform if you ask me. Sure, perhaps not as fancy as other options out there, but I am sure it's track record speaks volumes.

Form factor issues: I completely agree. I am not a fan at all of the lunchbox/camry dash look of the Kemper.

Foot switch: Not an issue at all.Not an issue for you and that's fine but I'm sure you're not saying that it's not an issue for me or others.

Before the MFC-101 came out I was using the Rocktron All Access, a great MIDI pedal that's more than up to the task, but the ease of setup, use, integration, and compatibility with the Axe FX is significantly less than the MFC-101, so much so that people were clamoring for it.

As an owner of both, I can assure you that to be dismissive of this as being "not an issue at all" is probably a stretch. Ask Axe FX owners how they'd feel about giving up their MFC-101s and going back to the All Access. I think most would say, "Well, I could live with it, but it certainly wouldn't be my preference".

Add the proprietary footswitch to the rack mount format and the inclusion of enough virtual pedals and time based effects with flexible routing that allows you to create virtually any signal path that you can imagine and you have the potential for a powerful stage rig.

What I've been saying for some time is that for me, and likely many others, this becomes a factor in deciding which rig has more appeal for live use. Focusing solely on slight tonal differences that are much more apparent for home players or recording artists is taking a narrow approach that only takes into account part of the picture that the gigging musician has to consider.

There are many players for whom none of this is an issue. All they want is a tone that is as close as possible to the original tube amp that was modeled and can be obtained with as little effort as possible, often choosing to have effects and stomps relegated to a traditional pedalboard and post production...that's fine too and completely understandable.

We're lucky to have the great choices that are available to us today...choices that people would have loved to have had back in the days when the Super Reverb and Plexi first hit the market.

[forum_crawler]

Not an issue for you and that's fine but I'm sure you're not saying that it's not an issue for me or others.

Before the MFC-101 came out I was using the Rocktron All Access, a great MIDI pedal that's more than up to the task, but the ease of setup, use, integration, and compatibility with the Axe FX is significantly less than the MFC-101, so much so that people were clamoring for it.

As an owner of both, I can assure you that to be dismissive of this as being "not an issue at all" is probably a stretch. Ask Axe FX owners how they'd feel about giving up their MFC-101s and going back to the All Access. I think most would say, "Well, I could live with it, but it certainly wouldn't be my preference".

Add the proprietary footswitch to the rack mount format and the inclusion of enough virtual pedals and time based effects with flexible routing that allows you to create virtually any signal path that you can imagine and you have the potential for a powerful stage rig.

What I've been saying for some time is that for me, and likely many others, this becomes a factor in deciding which rig has more appeal for live use. Focusing solely on slight tonal differences that are much more apparent for home players or recording artists is taking a narrow approach that only takes into account part of the picture that the gigging musician has to consider.

There are many players for whom none of this is an issue. All they want is a tone that is as close as possible to the original tube amp that was modeled and can be obtained with as little effort as possible, often choosing to have effects and stomps relegated to a traditional pedalboard and post production...that's fine too and completely understandable.

We're lucky to have the great choices that are available to us today...choices that people would have loved to have had back in the days when the Super Reverb and Plexi first hit the market.

I do realize that having a "matching foot controller" would be best, but clearly you did have an option before getting the MFC-101.

Now imagine if you do have another rig that you want to use, completely different than the axe, is the MFC-101 the "best option"? It is not a bad option, it is a perfectly good midi controller, but you still have to program it, thus cancelling whatever benefit you may get from it in the context of the new device.

At close to half the cost of the MFC-101, my GCP controls everything I need in my GSP1101 rig, my Mesa rig (GMajor2, Nova Drive, Control Switcher, GCX with pedals), and my "pedals" rig (DC Timeline, DC Glass Nexus), heck throw my boss GT-6 there for additional fun as well. Best part, I can control everything at the same time ;)

Not arguing with you, but perhaps the reason there is no dedicated foot controller as of yet is because Kemper believes there are other options out there that will do the job just fine. How long did it take fractal to release the MFC-101? Did you wait to get the axe until that foot controller came out? :p

[mmcm4]

I love my MFC-101 and it makes everything so much simpler because Fractal has taken the time to integrate it completely with the AxeFX-II. I've used it with other MIDI devices, but it's truly special with the AxeFX-II because I don't have to program everything in there.

I think most people here are saying that it would be REALLY NICE for Kemper to release some sort of floorboard controller. The Line6 stuff has one, the Digitech GSP has one, and the Fractal devices have one. If Avid and Kemper released floor controllers for their products, this may sway people towards their products.

[Gasp100]

I do realize that having a "matching foot controller" would be best, but clearly you did have an option before getting the MFC-101.

Now imagine if you do have another rig that you want to use, completely different than the axe, is the MFC-101 the "best option"? It is not a bad option, it is a perfectly good midi controller, but you still have to program it, thus cancelling whatever benefit you may get from it in the context of the new device.

At close to half the cost of the MFC-101, my GCP controls everything I need in my GSP1101 rig, my Mesa rig (GMajor2, Nova Drive, Control Switcher, GCX with pedals), and my "pedals" rig (DC Timeline, DC Glass Nexus), heck throw my boss GT-6 there for additional fun as well. Best part, I can control everything at the same time ;)

Not arguing with you, but perhaps the reason there is no dedicated foot controller as of yet is because Kemper believes there are other options out there that will do the job just fine. How long did it take fractal to release the MFC-101? Did you wait to get the axe until that foot controller came out? :p

I believe there will eventually be a purpose built foot controller. There is already an RJ45 connection on the back of the unit.
Are you arguing that the desire for an integrated solution is not a good argument for making a decision between the two units (II vs. KPA)?
That is just plain silly.
Hell, if I used a GSP1101 I would wonder why you would using anything BUT the control 2 with it -- that is the whole reason I would buy into that rig.
People had to wait a long time for the MFC101, my guess is people will be waiting for the KPA-MFC-101 as well.

[Hoth]

Drop a line to Xavier who makes the Little Giant 2. He has done wonders integrating his pedal with many of the popular modelers. For example, it is dead simple to use the LG2 with the AxeFx. He might be able to work something up for the KPA. Also, since he is located in Europe and I think that's his biggest market, it may be easier for him to get hold of KPA and there might be demand for the integration of his pedals with the KPA. He provides absolutely stellar customer service so this may be a real possibility.

[DADA]

This footcontroller discussion brings back memmories. The years AFX owners had to wait for the MFC. So many footcontrollers were used in those years so many possibilties and creativity was on forums so long was the waiting. Good times...
I bet KPA will not need years for the development of theirs so undust the old footcontrollers guys!

[stratzrus]

How long did it take fractal to release the MFC-101? Did you wait to get the axe until that foot controller came out? :p1. Forever
2. No

The foot controller isn't the only issue or even a deciding factor in and of it self, but rather a part of a number of factors I listed above why I feel that the Axe FX, as it stands in it's current state of development, has a lot to offer the gigging musician. Things that, when taken as a whole, could be a deciding factor for some.

I love my MFC-101 and it makes everything so much simpler because Fractal has taken the time to integrate it completely with the AxeFX-II. I've used it with other MIDI devices, but it's truly special with the AxeFX-II because I don't have to program everything in there. I agree and in my previous post I was trying to say that a good number of people feel the same way.

Again, it's not the only thing to consider, but is one of many reasons why the Axe FX now, after much development and field testing, has a lot to offer players who plan to use it in a live setting.

One thing the OP mentioned is worth noting: The knobs on the Axe II, at least as of the current firmware, cannot be set to be universal Bass, Middle, Treble and Presence knobs that work on all presets while performing live. While not a deal breaker for me, it would be nice if at all possible. Performance Mode for live work perhaps?

[jrockbridge]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/jrockbridge/people/borg-3.gif

[3dognate]

Kemper Says...
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr249/renegade900/Stuff/AyToneabtu.gif

[NuSkoolTone]

men with the Kemper will be playing more with many good tones rather than tweaking more to try and get one good tone

If the Kemper really lives up to its promises (And the videos look very promising) then this really is true. In the past modelers have always seem to appeal to the inner GEEK that loves to noodle on end with parameters and blind taste tests trying to pin the tail on the donkey.

(*Gulp of Kool aid*) This is about something that JUST WORKS. There's something PRICELESS about getting the tone you want with hardly any time investment. Many of us would rather just PLAY! Hey I have degrees in computers, can program etc...(Even *gasp*...play KEYBOARDS!) and can geek out with the BEST of them. Does that mean I WANT to? Hell no! There are way....WAY better things I'd rather do with my TIME. Even though I CAN be, sometimes I'd rather just be a GUITAR PLAYER than an audio/computer engineer, dial in a sound that ROCKS and MOVE ON!

Maybe this upsets some of you because all of the hard work you've put in to get your great tones which you STILL QUESTION every once in awhile because they STILL don't sound like the real thing. It's a "good" thing, maybe even a "great" thing, but not the same. So you go dive in again for more HOURS OF PROGRAMMING chasing your tail, and AGAIN everytime there's a software update. After awhile it all starts to sound the same and your head is spinning wondering if you've really made any progress....or not! It's at this point IMO people lose their way for what the original GOAL of modeling was (Again IMO): Keep the tone, lose the weight, lose the maintenance, reduce the gear, and reduce the cost. The Kemper seems to do all this with something new: Ease of use and IMMEDIATE results! No modeler thus far can TOUCH that AFAIK.

[zentman]

If the Kemper really lives up to its promises (And the videos look very promising) then this really is true. In the past modelers have always seem to appeal to the inner GEEK that loves to noodle on end with parameters and blind taste tests trying to pin the tail on the donkey.

(*Gulp of Kool aid*) This is about something that JUST WORKS. There's something PRICELESS about getting the tone you want with hardly any time investment. Many of us would rather just PLAY! Hey I have degrees in computers, can program etc...(Even *gasp*...play KEYBOARDS!) and can geek out with the BEST of them. Does that mean I WANT to? Hell no! There are way....WAY better things I'd rather do with my TIME. Even though I CAN be, sometimes I'd rather just be a GUITAR PLAYER than an audio/computer engineer, dial in a sound that ROCKS and MOVE ON!

Maybe this upsets some of you because all of the hard work you've put in to get your great tones which you STILL QUESTION every once in awhile because they STILL don't sound like the real thing. It's a "good" thing, maybe even a "great" thing, but not the same. So you go dive in again for more HOURS OF PROGRAMMING chasing your tail, and AGAIN everytime there's a software update. After awhile it all starts to sound the same and your head is spinning wondering if you've really made any progress....or not! It's at this point IMO people lose their way for what the original GOAL of modeling was (Again IMO): Keep the tone, lose the weight, lose the maintenance, reduce the gear, and reduce the cost. The Kemper seems to do all this with something new: Ease of use and IMMEDIATE results! No modeler thus far can TOUCH that AFAIK.
I agree somewhat but I did have 20 patches for gigging in my Ultra I never changed. Used them for about a year. I did some tweaking on new stuff when I would hear stuff on the internet that I liked.

[stratzrus]

I have degrees in computers, can program etc...(Even *gasp*...play KEYBOARDS!) and can geek out with the BEST of them. Does that mean I WANT to? Hell no! There are way....WAY better things I'd rather do with my TIME. Even though I CAN be, sometimes I'd rather just be a GUITAR PLAYER than an audio/computer engineer, dial in a sound that ROCKS and MOVE ON!

Maybe this upsets some of you because all of the hard work you've put in to get your great tones which you STILL QUESTION every once in awhile because they STILL don't sound like the real thing. On the contrary, what is not "upsetting" but is admittedly somewhat annoying at this point is people beating the dead horse about tweaking when it has no longer been an issue for some time now.

I took my Axe FX II out of the box, plugged it into my Randall RT2/50 and VHT 2x12, turned off the cab sims, dialed up a basic preset (any one of the first 40) adjusted the bass, middle, and treble and had tone that could not be distinguished in a blindfold test from a tube amp with no "tweaking" at all.

The hours of tweaking things is no longer necessary but is certainly available if you choose to do it.

Tweaking is necessary with any Axe FX if you want to exactly match the tone of a specific amp that you have in the room with you, and that's the KPA's forte, but if you want a variety of great tones with no hassle, those days are already here. Hours of tweaking in order to get realistic tone are part of a bygone era for Axe FX owners of both generations.

I'm also all about killer core amp tones -- I can get some great stuff out of the II, quickly with little effort.

A much more succinct way of saying what I was trying to say.

[Gasp100]

If the Kemper really lives up to its promises (And the videos look very promising) then this really is true. In the past modelers have always seem to appeal to the inner GEEK that loves to noodle on end with parameters and blind taste tests trying to pin the tail on the donkey.

(*Gulp of Kool aid*) This is about something that JUST WORKS. There's something PRICELESS about getting the tone you want with hardly any time investment. Many of us would rather just PLAY! Hey I have degrees in computers, can program etc...(Even *gasp*...play KEYBOARDS!) and can geek out with the BEST of them. Does that mean I WANT to? Hell no! There are way....WAY better things I'd rather do with my TIME. Even though I CAN be, sometimes I'd rather just be a GUITAR PLAYER than an audio/computer engineer, dial in a sound that ROCKS and MOVE ON!

Maybe this upsets some of you because all of the hard work you've put in to get your great tones which you STILL QUESTION every once in awhile because they STILL don't sound like the real thing. It's a "good" thing, maybe even a "great" thing, but not the same. So you go dive in again for more HOURS OF PROGRAMMING chasing your tail, and AGAIN everytime there's a software update. After awhile it all starts to sound the same and your head is spinning wondering if you've really made any progress....or not! It's at this point IMO people lose their way for what the original GOAL of modeling was (Again IMO): Keep the tone, lose the weight, lose the maintenance, reduce the gear, and reduce the cost. The Kemper seems to do all this with something new: Ease of use and IMMEDIATE results! No modeler thus far can TOUCH that AFAIK.

I'll preface my statements by saying a few things:
1. FOR MY CASE, I agree with you for the most part (ie. the goals)
2. So many people have EXTREMELY LOFTY aspirations of how good the KPA is, without hearing it or using it first hand.

I think the "real thing" is subjective and I still question if it REALLY provides "the real thing". More than one user has explained it's close, but no cigar -- really, really, really close, but in the end, the amp they already own feels and sounds better.
Many people want complete and utter control of their tones. They don't want a clone of something that they have been trying to escape or tweak without promise or upgrade with physical changes (components) over time. Many people appreciate the "starting point" of a reference amp similar to what the AxeFX II offers, but they want to build and enhance off of those starting points. For them, some SIMPLE and the option of INTENSE tweaking is a huge bonus.
The con in this instance for the KPA is that the stock profiles were created with someone elses amps, mics and most importantly EARS. It has been said that the profiles themselves can be tweaked including cab changes. I still don't have any great evidence (recorded) that shows how big BIG eq changes are handled by a profile. In fact, the few examples I have heard of heavily tweaked profiles actually sound pretty bad (to me), unnatural and pretty grating to my oh so sensitive ears :)
There is virtually NO (useable) INFORMATION as to how the cab can be magically removed from the equation and another substituted. The only video I have seen of this in action was cool, but to be honest the end results didn't sound that good...
We still don't have a lot of rock solid information on stability (physical AND software/firmware -- actually, at least one person has reported midi functionality bugs on the new Kemper forum already). I don't think we even have one example of a person how has programmed their 3rd party midi controller to work with the KPA yet... at least I haven't heard someone has actually done it and how it is working. Cleary no YouTube vids on helpful hints going on yet.
"There's something PRICELESS about getting the tone you want with hardly any time investment." -- the thing you have to remember is that in many cases the profiles are actually the tone the CREATOR of the profile wanted... they may (or may not) sync up with what you want as well too; How do you know how those profiles will sound through YOUR gear (FRFR, recording gear, amp + cab)?
"It's a "good" thing, maybe even a "great" thing, but not the same." -- I hear what you are saying, but to be honest this comes off a little condescending. If I build a patch and I love it and it does exactly what I want, who gives a flying f*** if it doesn't sound "the same" as, well, as what??? We have examples of people doing absolutely incredible stuff with the AxeFX (and other modelers) that you could not possibly dream of doing with "the real deal".
Look, I'm getting a KPA. I need to use this thing first hand and see what it's about. I'm not super concerned about tactile response (my AxeFX II feels about as good as any tube amp I've ever played and my guitar volume works BETTER than when using a real tube amp). I'm also all about killer core amp tones -- I can get some great stuff out of the II, quickly with little effort. I think the KPA MIGHT shine in this regard, but it remains to be seen. I'm also not heavy into FX and to be totally honest with myself, there is a LOT in the II that I will never, ever use and quite frankly some of it is overkill for what I want / need.
I actually dig the KPA look, but I LOVE the II form factor. I'm trying to rationalize the KPA form factor (I don't think I would be a huge "must have knobs to tweak on the fly" guy... I never did when I played through real gear -- spent a LOT of time dialing in my stuff pre-gig).
So, to me there is a lot of promise with the KPA. I don't believe it is for everyone and I don't think happy AxeFX users will be jumping ship just to get the latest/greatest. At this point in time I don't believe there is a "best".
No matter what you have, a big part of the "struggle" will be how you monitor this stuff. That is one thing that has not changed and that is a huge hurdle for a lot of people who venture into modeling. I like nearfield monitors for the super crisp and detailed stuff that you just cannot get through a traditional backline approach. But at louder volumes, things have fallen apart for me... Likewise I do really like the power amp / cab approach at most volume levels (usually louder is better) but then you lose so much of what these new modeling devices offer.
I think there is room for ALL.

[DigitalTube]

I'm now having second thoughts about getting the KPA right away(have one ordered) one of my friends in Europe got one and is returning it, it keeps rebooting for no reason, and firmware doesn't seem quite finished..but he did like the sound, I think I'll probably wait a few months more, till the firmware gets a little more mature, you'd think that after all these delays they'd have it perfected by now..how is it working out for those of you who already have one, any problems? midi buggy?

[stratzrus]

I'm now having second thoughts about getting the KPA right away(have one ordered) one of my friends in Europe got one and is returning it, it keeps rebooting for no reason, and firmware doesn't seem quite finished..but he did like the sound, I think I'll probably wait a few months more, till the firmware gets a a little more mature, you'd think that after all these delays they'd have it perfected by now..how is it woking out for those of you who already have one, any problems? midi buggy?I swore after a few experiences that I'd never buy any of the first shipment of a new model whether it be amps, computers, digital cameras or even cars.

There are almost always bugs that need to be worked out no matter what the product is.

[Black Squirrel]

My Kemper is sitting here in My office. I cant wait to fire this Bad Boy Up.

[stratzrus]

My Kemper is sitting here in My office. I cant wait to fire this Bad Boy Up.I know the feeling. I called a cab and left work the minute my Axe FX II arrived. If memory serves I took a long weekend.

Congrats and enjoy! :aok

[DigitalTube]

One reason for me never to sell the Axe II (till Axe FX3 :) ) is that no matter what new profiling/modeling comes out, if it's something that Cliff thinks will get better results he seems to understand how they do it, and it will be just a matter of time before he'll probably come out with something even better, in many years of buying musical gear never seen anyone so dedicated and always working so hard to always improve his product, and for Free!!!
Yes i'm buying the KPA, and hope it's really great, and will buy any new modeler of the week, but my Axe II is here to stay.. :)
I expect Kemper to be good with support too, and have bought some of their synths ( ya I know not really Kemper..) and support was good, but don't think C.Kemper will work as hard as Fractal with constant improvements, but let's hope i'm wrong on this. :)

[Pick909]

One reason for me never to sell the Axe II (till Axe FX3 :) ) is that no matter what new profiling/modeling comes out, if it's something that Cliff thinks will get better results he seems to understand how they do it, and it will be just a matter of time before he'll probably come out with something even better, in many years of buying musical gear never seen anyone so dedicated and always working so hard to always improve his product, and for Free!!!
Yes i'm buying the KPA, and hope it's really great, and will buy any new modeler of the week, but my Axe II is here to stay.. :)
I expect Kemper to be good with support too, and have bought some of their synths ( ya I know not really Kemper..) and support was good, but don't think C.Kemper will work as hard as Fractal with constant improvements, but let's hope i'm wrong on this. :)

Competition at the top is very good for us guitarists!!! I agree that Cliff give an amazing support to its products but I would be surprise if Kemper would not keep up with FAS in this department. Keep in mind that both companies target the same more expensive digital guitar gears market so they will want (need) to stay on top. But if you can afford to have both units in the same time you are sure to always have the best one! :cool:

Pierre

PS: However I'm not sure if the actual AFXII hardware can support the profiling technology but Cliff will probably find something else, then Kemper too, then Cliff again, then kemper etc... :D

[drock2k1]

I would gladly get an afx2 if they weren't going for 900 over retail and were obtainable. I like the ability to communicate with the creator of the product though as it seems Cliff is readily available.

[MaxTwang]

This footcontroller discussion brings back memmories. The years AFX owners had to wait for the MFC. So many footcontrollers were used in those years so many possibilties and creativity was on forums so long was the waiting. Good times...
I bet KPA will not need years for the development of theirs so undust the old footcontrollers guys!

I bet Kemper will release a foot controller, but instead of doing something usefull when you stomp a button it will say 'not available yet'.

[Dr Git]

I'm happy with My Axe Fx II .... Thank you ....lol

[paulmapp8306]

Ill jump in here if I may - with some coments and some questions.

Ive been happy with my AFX standard for 4 years. Ive thought about the Ultra on many occasions for the extra FX, but just didnt really need it. the new power, plus the extra FX, plus the G2 modelling, plus the hardware changes made me put my name on teh AFX2 list though.

Then enteres the KPA. I followed with interest the inital profile vids, and thoughs of the Beta testers. For me Im a live player - Ive never got on with FRFR, and prefer - even at home - to go into a power amp and real cab with my AFX.

I weighed up pro's/cons for both unit - and Price was a BIG one as well, but decided to opt for the AFX2 (which I get later this week or early next). The desicion was based on "not having answers" about the KPA, rather than anything sonic - but I will list the factors, along with my thoughts about them. Id appreciate anyone with real world knowledge of the KPA now its out there as to how my thoughts actually stack up.

1. FX. I want an all in one box, and the AFX is certainly better spec'd in quality and routing options. Having said that reverb and delay is probably 90% of my FX useage, so the KPA MAY be good enough - however I was concerned with comments that "once the cab part of the profile is removed, sop are the FX slots". That would kill the KPA for me.

2. Tones. I have fought and fought with real amps to get sounds I like. Often I can get on from an amp - but not more. The KPA reson-detre is profiling, BUT I dont have any real amps, nor access to most. This means Im reliant on supplied profiles and user profiles. I was concerned that I could trawl through countless profiles to find one I REALLY liked - and wasnt sure how much the KPAs controls could "tweek" a profile. With the AFX on the other hand I can design a tone from scratch, which appeals much more to me getting the "tone inmy head".

3. Form. No contest - until the KPA comes with a built in amp module I cant live without it being racked. As a point of fact how can they call the unit a profiling AMPLIFIER, when in fact it doesnt amplify anything? not a critisism - more an observation.

4. Technology. Fractals history of firmware updates is great. With the KPA ??? its unknown at present. Also the AFX is "prooven" and while the 2 does deviate a little - its a fair bet it will be stable. Again with the KPA? Im sure it is BUT we wont really know until a year or more down the line. Also - crossing over with tone - I cant help but wonder how good the "removing of the cab" part of the KPA is. How can it remove a cab when it has no idea if it was a 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12 - which speakers were used or which mics? Its got to be guesswork at best. If it actually produces a good sonic result then thats fine - but at the time of decision making there were NO clips, vids or reports on this aspect of the KPA.

5. Oporation. I guess the KPA has it here - so many real access buttons. However, I have no idea of the MIDI capabilities of the KPA. Real time switching of presets, and FX within a patch are a must really.

so - The upshot was I elected to stay with a system I was familier with, and I knew would deliver what I wanted. Id still love to get hold of a KPA - because it the core tones ARE indeed better, the cab removal works well enough, There are enough core FX for me once the cab is removed, and there are enough Profiles included, that are tweekable enough to get me where I want to be - well then it could well take the AFX2s plaec, and at 60% of the cost.

Ultimatel;y I may still get one. I paid for my 2 without having to sell my standard. If I can here or dont feel theres a big improvement for me I can sent the 2 back (or sell it) , keep the standard for FX and get a KPA. Also, If I DO keep the 2 - I have the standard to sell which will fatch most of what a KPA would cost. I ahve other plans for that money medium to long term BUT if theres a trial period (is there? ) with the KPA, I could get one with the money Knowing either the KPA or AFX2 would go back/be sold and the money I needed would be back with my.

Anyway - enough rambling. Id love some feedback on my "descision logic" both on my assumptions v actuality of the KPA, and also whether given my useage and requirements (particularly MIDI control and use with an amp/cab NOT FRFR) the KPA would indeed "do it".

[guitarnet70]

1- Absolutely not true, who said that?
2- Don't know what kind of tone you're after, but I can say that most of the profiles sounds very good out of the box and the controls on the KPA allow you to change the sound way more then any amp I've ever seen and by far more then any modeler I had (kind of everything out of Axe and 11r)
3- Fair enough, matter of taste
4- Virus/Access has a long tradition of free updates and Christoph Kemper stated that it will not be any different with the KPA. The cab stuff? Don't ask me why but apparently it does work, somebody profiled an amp (I believe a Mesa), switched the cab of and played it back through the loop of the amp and the result was really impressive, and consider the he was practically doubling the power stage.

If you get a chance give it a try, after the first rush it will be available at shops...

[paulmapp8306]

1. it was on a thread here - apparently it came from Kemper direct. Some FX blocks are pre amp - some post and the issue was that when disabling the Cab part, the post FX blocks were lost. This was a while ago and may well have been rectified via firmware during the time between then and actual release. Its a reason I wanted it confirmed one way or the other now they are with us.

4. i dont doubt that - but while I knew of the Virus synth I have no knowledge of the company. Its good to hear there is such great planned support.

[Berlin Chris]

1- Absolutely not true, who said that?


Mr. Kemper himself told me that and I quoted him. Wanna put me in jail?

Seriously, that was back in august or september at a product demo. At that time the cut-off of delay/reverb was a matter of fact, but they have changed the signal flow since then I guess.

[guitarnet70]

1. I did missed that one. I can confirm that it has been fixed.
4. You can give a look in Wikipedia, there is some more info available

[guitarnet70]

Mr. Kemper himself told me that and I quoted him. Wanna put me in jail?

Seriously, that was back in august or september at a product demo. At that time the cut-off of delay/reverb was a matter of fact, but they have changed the signal flow since then I guess.


:mmm:rotflmao

Not this time, Chris :p
I did missed that piece of info when you posted it (or did forget about it), now it works fine.

[CrossHair]

1. I did missed that one. I can confirm that it has been fixed.
4. You can give a look in Wikipedia, there is some more info available

Could you post the link... Its search didn't come up with anything.

[guitarnet70]

[/B]
Could you post the link... Its search didn't come up with anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Virus