Listened to a 1978 David Gilmour interview . . . interesting stuff.

[justonwo]

The interview was ostensibly about his first solo album, though inevitably most of the questions defaulted to questions about Pink Floyd. A couple of things that surprised me and/or made me laugh.

The interviewer asked David if he had problems translating his studio work into a manageable live performance. And immediately after he said he wished Led Zeppelin would carry around a few extra instruments to help fill out their live sound.

David replies very matter of fact, "I wish they would carry around a few fewer instruments . . . less singers."

Ouch. It's always interesting to hear what bands that you like think of each other.

He was also asked about Alan Parsons' role in Dark Side of the Moon, and this was a point he was quite peeved about. He said there was nothing special about Alan Parsons and that, in fact, it could have been any capable engineer during the DSOTM recordings. He said Parsons had nothing to do with the resulting sound and that the album would have sounded the same had any other engineer been on the job.

I read in later interviews, where he expanded on this a bit, that the band as a whole was peeved at the credit Parsons had been taking for engineering DSOTM. He said that Parsons was capable but had basically gone from tea-runner to assistant engineer to engineer. And he just happened to be the engineer assigned to that album.

[fumbler]

Hard to argue with DG's track record but perhaps Roger Waters ego wasn't the only reason the band fell apart.

Spoken as a lifelong Floyd and DG fan.

[jimshine]

David Gilmour was equally responsible. And is largely responsible for no reunion.

Barrett was the original leader. Roger took that place when he left. Mason and Wright are followers, it was easy for them, but Gilmour hated it. The more success they saw, the more it wore on his nerves. Since Gilmour has assumed control, he has been no better than Waters in running that band. The difference is there is no longer resistance.

Wright said at the Live 8 rehearsals, Waters came in with some song choice ideas and Gilmour said "Pink Floyd is playing XXX, if you want to come up and join, then those are the songs we will be playing." Those 2 could never reunite without going back to the DSOTM ways where each had input and say. It wont happen because Gilmour will never budge from his role as "leader", and Waters will never submit long term to Wright and Mason type roles.

[Teh RedWizard]

W0W.....:stir

[Soul Man]

David Gilmour was equally responsible. And is largely responsible for no reunion.

Barrett was the original leader. Roger took that place when he left. Mason and Wright are followers, it was easy for them, but Gilmour hated it. The more success they saw, the more it wore on his nerves. Since Gilmour has assumed control, he has been no better than Waters in running that band. The difference is there is no longer resistance.

Wright said at the Live 8 rehearsals, Waters came in with some song choice ideas and Gilmour said "Pink Floyd is playing XXX, if you want to come up and join, then those are the songs we will be playing." Those 2 could never reunite without going back to the DSOTM ways where each had input and say. It wont happen because Gilmour will never budge from his role as "leader", and Waters will never submit long term to Wright and Mason type roles.

I think it was ironic that Roger was so quick to try and kill the band completely when he left and then wanted to get his foot back in the door much later.

Be careful what you wish for Roger!

[Soul Man]

The interview was ostensibly about his first solo album, though inevitably most of the questions defaulted to questions about Pink Floyd. A couple of things that surprised me and/or made me laugh.

The interviewer asked David if he had problems translating his studio work into a manageable live performance. And immediately after he said he wished Led Zeppelin would carry around a few extra instruments to help fill out their live sound.

David replies very matter of fact, "I wish they would carry around a few fewer instruments . . . less singers."

Ouch. It's always interesting to hear what bands that you like think of each other.

He was also asked about Alan Parsons' role in Dark Side of the Moon, and this was a point he was quite peeved about. He said there was nothing special about Alan Parsons and that, in fact, it could have been any capable engineer during the DSOTM recordings. He said Parsons had nothing to do with the resulting sound and that the album would have sounded the same had any other engineer been on the job.

I read in later interviews, where he expanded on this a bit, that the band as a whole was peeved at the credit Parsons had been taking for engineering DSOTM. He said that Parsons was capable but had basically gone from tea-runner to assistant engineer to engineer. And he just happened to be the engineer assigned to that album.

Is the interview online? Do you have a link?

[Teh RedWizard]

I think it was ironic that Roger was so quick to try and kill the band completely when he left and then wanted to get his foot back in the door much later.

Be careful what you wish for Roger!Yeah,but time and age changes things.From what I understand,Roger has 'grown up' and mellowed quite a bit as he's gotten older,and David almost continues to want to 'punish' him for his past transgressions.Oh well,with Wright now dead,I highly doubt it could ever happen.

[James M]

I think they both still hold animosity towards each other; Waters spoke pretty candidly on Howard Stern a few weeks ago, and he still seems pretty bent out of shape. He did say though that he hasn't heard from Gilmour since they played at the London The Wall show a few months back, which seems to be as much on Gilmour as it is on Roger.

I'm also kinda shocked about the Alan Parsons comment...I'm not studio savvy, but there is SO much going on on all of those tracks...that can't possibly be all Roger and David's doing, can it?

[jimshine]

I listened to that interview. I didn't hear animosity, and Stern was trying hard to get him to say something negative. He simply said that the reunion likely wont happened because there is no reason to make it happen. They don't need the money, both are able to sell concert tickets as solo artists, there is no personal reason to make it happen.

[James M]

I listened to that interview. I didn't hear animosity, and Stern was trying hard to get him to say something negative.

Maybe animosity is the wrong word...but I feel he made it clear in that interview and in the Dark Side retrospective a few months back in Rolling Stone that David was not a close friend of his, nor did he really respect a lot of his contributions. He had a very clear recollection of exactly what he thought he (vs. David) contributed, and it was like 95% to 5%.

[Soul Man]

Maybe animosity is the wrong word...but I feel he made it clear in that interview and in the Dark Side retrospective a few months back in Rolling Stone that David was not a close friend of his, nor did he really respect a lot of his contributions. He had a very clear recollection of exactly what he thought he (vs. David) contributed, and it was like 95% to 5%.

And that I believe is what led to the end of the classic PF lineup. He (Waters) demanded Wright be fired from the band during the recording of The Wall and he only toured with the band as a hired / salary musician.

Waters also became more and more obsessive with what he was writing that he shut out anything that wasn't his. The album "The Final Cut" was listed as a PF album but ask anyone associated with the band and it's a Roger Waters solo record. He and Roger argues so much about it that Gilmour had his name taken off most of the credits although he was still paid accordingly.

Take into account all the Waters did after he left to try and end the band (even though he quit!) and I see why Gilmour was, is and could be pissed until the day he dies.

Maybe DG is a prick in the eyes of Waters but Roger's ego was growing, growing, growing and it became very difficult to breathe in a small recording studio.

Roger tried to copyright the pig for HIMSELF so that Gilmour / Mason / Wright couldn't use it after he left.

[justonwo]

Well, the interview made DG seem pretty unlikeable. Not that I feel the need to like the personalities of the musicians I listen to, but it's always nice to hear a bit of modesty and reserve. Brian May, for example.

The interview is on Wolfgang's Vault.

[Soul Man]

Well, the interview made DG seem pretty unlikeable. Not that I feel the need to like the personalities of the musicians I listen to, but it's always nice to hear a bit of modesty and reserve. Brian May, for example.

The interview is on Wolfgang's Vault.

Well said and thanks for the heads up to the location!

[lp_bruce]

Yeah,but time and age changes things.From what I understand,Roger has 'grown up' and mellowed quite a bit as he's gotten older,and David almost continues to want to 'punish' him for his past transgressions.Oh well,with Wright now dead,I highly doubt it could ever happen.

Hmmm... There were a few good articles about PF in the guitar mags a few years ago (30th anniversary of the Wall?), and the thing that struck me was Waters' utter lack of graciousness. He was still unwilling to give anyone else (band, producer, anyone) an ounce of credit. I thought it was pretty sad, really, that he couldn't look back with some perspective and acknowledge the contribution of others.

I think Gilmour is stubborn too.

Peace,

[Teh RedWizard]

Well, the interview made DG seem pretty unlikeable. Not that I feel the need to like the personalities of the musicians I listen to, but it's always nice to hear a bit of modesty and reserve. Brian May, for example.

The interview is on Wolfgang's Vault.I could concur.Let's hope David has perhaps changed a tad too in almost 35 years.

[Rumblur]

I never thought much of Robert Plant's singing... as far as a 'front man' he looked the part, but he couldnt carry a tune in a bucket.

[cratz2]

As an unapologetic David Gilmour fanboy, I honestly don't see how anyone can side with the Roger Waters 'side' of how things ended. It seems to me that Waters wanted to take the band in a third direction of having politics play a radically bigger role in both the sound, attitude and lyrical content. This was completely against what the other three members wanted and he seemed to revel in degrading the players, most notably Rick Wright.

He says he's done with The Floyd, walks away and is shocked that the other guys want to keep doing what they enjoy doing.

The political parallels are staggering.

Having said that, I don't know that Gilmour was easy to get along with but once the 'sides' are taken... well.... it's hard to recover. There are egos all over the music industry. Some are never overtly displayed, some are in a lighted, spinning display case and some are usually kept in check and you only see glimpses from time to time.

And that's all I have to say about that. :p

[Ben S.]

He had a very clear recollection of exactly what he thought he (vs. David) contributed, and it was like 95% to 5%.

And yet both have admitted that David played almost ALL of the bass tracks on Pink Floyd albums since DSOTM because he simply was/is a better musician.

Roger's head is bigger than any stadium can hold, though I love him dearly. David doesn't need to deal with his shit in my lame little opinion. How anyone could run Rick Wright out of a band is beyond me. He was one of the most polite, gentle and nice people in rock history -- only Roger.

If anyone wants to know how much musical contribution David had on the band, listen to everything he has done solo and with Pink Floyd and tell me how much better the MUSIC sounds compared to the dry crap Roger put out (I will concede lyrics. Roger is simply a better lyricist; without a doubt in my mind at all).
But the music was always best lead by Syd or David.

[Ben S.]

Oh, and I'm not surprised by his Led Zep comments. Remember, guys his age grew up loving Elvis, Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin, American Blues and the like.
None of those 60's rockers seem to care much about each other's music from what I can tell. They just reveled in all the competition, and then went home and spun their 50's records and Blues records.

[halcyon85]

If anyone wants to know how much musical contribution David had on the band, listen to everything he has done solo and with Pink Floyd and tell me how much better the MUSIC sounds compared to the dry crap Roger put out (I will concede lyrics. Roger is simply a better lyricist; without a doubt in my mind at all).

Therein lies the problem. I agree 100% Roger wrote the best lyrics, Gilmour wrote the best music (actually Gilmour AND Wright, imo). They made their best music working together as a team, and then the egos destroyed it. No member of Pink Floyd, solo, or even as the post-waters unit, was ever greater than the sum of its parts when things were going well.

[Ben S.]

Therein lies the problem. I agree 100% Roger wrote the best lyrics, Gilmour wrote the best music (actually Gilmour AND Wright, imo). They made their best music working together as a team, and then the egos destroyed it. No member of Pink Floyd, solo, or even as the post-waters unit, was ever greater than the sum of its parts when things were going well.

Aye. It was a good run. A bloody good band they were.

[Soul Man]

Aye. It was a good run. A bloody good band they were.

:agree

[cratz2]

+17

[moosewayne]

If anyone wants to know how much musical contribution David had on the band, listen to everything he has done solo and with Pink Floyd and tell me how much better the MUSIC sounds compared to the dry crap Roger put out (I will concede lyrics. Roger is simply a better lyricist; without a doubt in my mind at all).
But the music was always best lead by Syd or David.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I have to politely disagree.
I think Gilmour led Floyd is the biggest bunch of new age inspired, void of substance CRAP!
And I'm a huge Gilmour fan.

Pink Floyd is about more than a spacey guitar solo.

[Ben C.]

Well, the interview made DG seem pretty unlikeable.
Are you talking about the 1978 Jim Ladd 'Inner-View' interview? It's been a while since I listened to that, but I don't consider it particularly scathing. David comes across as a bit blunt, and perhaps glib re: some probably over-asked questions, probably because he was there to promote his first solo album. And you have to figure the implosion going on with the Floyd at the time - the 1978 Wall sessions - he was probably quite sick of the band, and even the mention of it. But as he honestly said right in the interview, he wants to sell records, and needs the publicity.

[Ben C.]

BTW - here's a record rip of the program in question so folks who haven't heard can take a listen (includes the 1980 Waters 'Inner-View' as well).

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfinnerview.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfinnerview.zip)


Which is interesting when compared to the recent (last year's) interviews w/ David and Nick on Johnnie Walker's Sounds of the 70's (also my recording off radio & artwork):

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfjw70s.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfjw70s.zip)

Oh and why not... I also recorded the 'Record Producers: Pink Floyd' (extended) off the radio stream last year and cut it up for myself w/ some basic art as well for any Floyd fans:

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfrpextended.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfrpextended.zip)

.

[jcmark611]

Something fishy is going on here....

I've been a huge fan of Floyd and Glimour for years, and never heard any ill-words toward David; but in the last few weeks I've seen some talk of people calling him an a-hole and it's all from here.

That's a bit strange, is it not?

[SW33THAND5]

roger drove the wedge...

david has moved on and doesn't care to revisit old history.

[bjjp2]

I listened to that Howard Stern interview with Roger and came away thinking Roger is a pretty good guy who has mellowed quite a bit. He admitted that he was unreasonable and should have let the rest of the band use the name for example.

[MikeE]

Some thoughts:

Waters was responsible for most of the music, lyrics and themes. His contribution to the band was immense, regardless of how much of a douche he is/was. Without his ideas and songwriting the band would not have lasted post Syd. Post Waters Floyd songs were written with lots of help from outside writers.

Gilmour and Wright were great contributors to the PF sound and took Roger's music and turned it into Pink Floyd music. They should get much of the credit for that. Post Waters Floyd still sounded like Floyd whereas Waters stuff sounded like The Final Cut.

Wright being fired could have been handled better but even Gilmour has stated that Rick was difficult during that time and no one was happy with him.

No question Gilmour has an ego, you have to in order to front a band. But when Roger split, who followed him? That says a lot.

[PerFusionist]

I think Gilmour led Floyd is the biggest bunch of new age inspired, void of substance CRAP!
And I'm a huge Gilmour fan.

Pink Floyd is about more than a spacey guitar solo.

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES!

Gilmour and co. had a few great songs post-Waters, but that darkness that Waters brought to the sound was gone. Great guitar tone and a nice voice got DG a long way, but the artistry in the songs was just not there without Waters.

MHO of course.

[critter74]

It's funny to see people espouse on here like they know anything about these people, their relationship dynamics and their working dynamics. It would be like having your marriage fail and then have people who simply know you from work, 20 years later, arguing over what really happened.

Um, nobody knows why it failed. Not even the people who were there, anymore. Anybody who has even read a drop of anything slightly related to psychology knows that memory and perspective are greatly intertwined and we remember what we want and when we hear "sides" as third party listeners, we take away what we want. Objectivity is a lofty goal and idea. Not a reality.

My point? Nobody here knows why the band failed. Nobody in the band probably knows why it failed (with the line of Gilmour/Waters). Even the people involved are doing nothing more than presuming and using conjecture to piece together a part of their shared history.

In short: there are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and what really happened.

I think PF failing is nothing more than 2 assholes who met, used that energy to create great music until that energy combusted o n them. It’s not rocket science. It’s not even really that interesting. The world, and industry, is filled with former band mates who can’t stand each other. In fact bands not getting along is more the norm than not. Money and ego do screwed up things to people and relationships. Especially when thrown at you from a young age when you don’t know how to handle it. Or be an adult yet.

2 assholes don't like each other. They both happened to be talented musicians. Who cares that they don’t like each other?

[jcmark611]

It's funny to see people espouse on here like they know anything about these people

I think PF failing is nothing more than 2 assholes who met, used that energy to create great music until that energy combusted o n them.

:huh

So you know these people are assholes?

[critter74]

:huh

So you know these people are assholes?

As much as anybody else on here does. Many seem to think Waters is. And others Gilmour. That was kind of the point of my initial post.

So, not sure what your point is....

[mslugano]

Aye. It was a good run. A bloody good band they were.

Oh, I hope you are a Brit living in NY rather than a pirate wanna-be.

What sayest ye, kind sir? :barf

[jcmark611]

As much as anybody else on here does. Many seem to think Waters is. And others Gilmour. That was kind of the point of my initial post.

So, not sure what your point is....

Calling people you don't know assholes is a bit harsh.

[coldinWI]

Some thoughts on Pink Floyd:

Neither Roger Waters or David Gilmour would have been in a great band without each other (saving that one incredible album, Piper at the gates of Dawn).

My understanding is that Roger was largely responsible for the lyrics, over-arcing concepts of albums, and possibly some of the electronica as well. Roger had a steady girth in his Bass playing, which was appropriate for the music. I would not be surprised if he was the creative person with the stage display too. Nice screaming and Gong work as well!

Gilmour has that tremendous voice, unparalleled guitar work, and also was a player in arranging the songs. The focal point of the band live was Gilmour. He came into a very difficult situation with Syd Barrett, and handled it with class. This was even to the point of helping Syd with Madcap Laughs and Barrett, which was the flame out of an illustrious short music career.

Richard Wright (I believe) was a guy who gave everyone a springboard to do their thing. In other words, his playing was an unselfish foundation which allowed the band to be experimental, and not have to contribute mundanely to create density. I also presume that he was the guy who pushed the rest of the band to do color chord voicings (like Great gig in the Sky, or Us and Them).

Nick Mason is a drummer of renown. I love his bassy type of sound. He understood dynamics and architecture of music. His work on Saucer full of secrets, and intro to "Time" are fabulous. Prototypical rock mustache as well.

Pink Floyd as a band, put our 5 albums which are tremendous listening from stem to stern (Piper, Echoes, DSOM, Wish you were Here, Animals). There are several others which are a close call to that. If I had to pick a #1 band, and a #1 guitarist, both would be in this posting.

:hiP

[Caribou]

I love PF with Roger-- of course-- but I also like the post-Roger albums. Even if those albums aren't on par with what they did in the 70's (what could be?), I wouldn't think to describe them as "new age" or "crap." I would say the same of Roger's solo material.

[jimshine]

I agree with the statements the two made their best work when working together. MLOR and The Divsion Bell are Gilmour solo albums. They do not "feel" like Pink Floyd albums. Just like Waters solo stuff doesn't.

FWIW, Gilmour was on Waters side in letting Wright go. Understand, the band was on the verge of losing everything. The Wall HAD to get done, and make a ton of money to bail their asses out. Wright was slacking. Gilmour admitted he told him on the phone that he was given, and blew several chances to get things in order.

I wont take a side because as I see it, BOTH of those guys are responsible. They made their best work together, and that will most likely never happen again for reasons on both sides. And to those who think Gilmour isn't capable of being a prick (that this interview wasn't enough), watch the studio footage on Pompeii. Waters is doing his job in producing good sounding tracks. Gilmour is giving him sh1t the whole time. This is in the seconds we are allowed into that world. Imagine what it was like dealing with that all the time?

[Ben C.]

FWIW, Gilmour was on Waters side in letting Wright go. Understand, the band was on the verge of losing everything. The Wall HAD to get done, and make a ton of money to bail their asses out. Wright was slacking. Gilmour admitted he told him on the phone that he was given, and blew several chances to get things in order.
Wright AND Gilmour both admitted they were coming up with nothing, and Roger basically came into the studio with The Wall fully written, and Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking fully written and told them to choose one or the other. Because Rog felt ownership of the material, he treated the other members accordingly - as his backup band. Which Rog has admitted, and clearly created an... unbalanced working environment. I can see a lot of resentment flying about. And rumor was that Nick was next on the chopping block.

I wont take a side because as I see it, BOTH of those guys are responsible. They made their best work together, and that will most likely never happen again for reasons on both sides. And to those who think Gilmour isn't capable of being a prick (that this interview wasn't enough), watch the studio footage on Pompeii. Waters is doing his job in producing good sounding tracks. Gilmour is giving him sh1t the whole time. This is in the seconds we are allowed into that world. Imagine what it was like dealing with that all the time?
Well, Roger left Pink Floyd, and that's ultimately where the ongoing bad-blood seems to have come from. Because the other three guys wanted to remain Pink Floyd (as they had every right to, as much as Roger), and Roger felt that he was Pink Floyd. So Roger sued them for use of the name. For years Roger battled them for use of the name Pink Floyd with lawyers and lawsuits. That does not usually endear parties to one another. Even putting aside Nick and Rick as founding members, David was in Pink Floyd from 1968 - 1983; and now one member... who left voluntarily... sues everyone for years over use of the name? If David is bitter over that, I honestly don't blame him. And I wouldn't want to work with someone again who tried to destroy my livelihood and a band that I put 15 years into building up.

As far as Pompeii - I assume you're referring to the 'toppy' debate section, yes? During one of the DSoTM recording session segments, right? I don't see that as Roger being a 'great producer' and Gilmour 'goofing off' at all. I kind of see it actually as Roger trying to make something out of nothing because the camera is on him. Alan Parsons has even said that having Roger in the studio was somewhat obnoxious at times, although he respected his vision.

neXFDS7hZU8

And FWIW, I did spend $200 a ticket to see Roger on the Wall tour when he came by in 2010 :) . I have no issue with him, and love his solo work (save for Pros and Cons)... but as far as blame for the band breakup and bad blood, it's pretty clear to me that Roger bore the larger amount of responsibility. This is only based on the documentaries, videos, and interviews I think we've all seen and heard, and the two books I'd read - 'Comfortably Numb' by Mark Blake, and Nick Masons 'Inside Out'.

[justonwo]

When you say Waters came in the The Wall fully written, what does that mean? The melodies and basic structure? Or the details? Because David's sound is so unique, I've always assumed him to be a big contributor to the writing.

[al.cxam]

When you say Waters came in the The Wall fully written, what does that mean? The melodies and basic structure? Or the details? Because David's sound is so unique, I've always assumed him to be a big contributor to the writing.

I think that many of the melodies were there - if you listen to Pros and Cons, it has many similarities to The Wall. I only recently found out that Pros and Cons was the album that re-introduced (Eric) Clapton to the biz after he'd burned out... I prefered Gilmore's interpretation of the music.

[Ben C.]

When you say Waters came in the The Wall fully written, what does that mean? The melodies and basic structure? Or the details? Because David's sound is so unique, I've always assumed him to be a big contributor to the writing.
I was using some shorthand - it wasn't totally 'fleshed out' so to speak (pun intended), but it was pretty much complete save for solos and rewriting some lyrics. He, I believe, rewrote it once after the original writeup. You've heard Roger's demo that he brought in for "Money", yes? Like that - the melody, lyrics, etc. in place.

DdS9F0ofBvs

This isn't a totally good example, but here's Comfortably Numb from the wall demos 'The Wall Under Construction'... Roger recorded his bits, and had Gilmour and Nick play over his demo:

8FIAgn3L5lE

[vivamusica]

How anyone could run Rick Wright out of a band is beyond me. He was one of the most polite, gentle and nice people in rock history -- only Roger.
Wright had a trouble with cocaine addiction at that time but happened a smoke curtain about it. He was fired by "incompetence". Also Gilmour was angry with him and I remember his acid words about Rick on musical press.

[RichieD]

This isn't a totally good example, but here's Comfortably Numb from the wall demos 'The Wall Under Construction'... Roger recorded his bits, and had Gilmour and Nick play over his demo:

8FIAgn3L5lE

Except that David Gilmour wrote the music and the melody for Comfortably Numb toward the end of recording his first solo album, but too late to be included on it. Whatever music Roger had originally "fleshed out" for this song (originally to be titled "The Doctor") was obviously dropped for what has become probably Pink Floyd's most famous song.

UxGOfCvHj8s

[Ben C.]

Except that David Gilmour wrote the music and the melody for Comfortably Numb toward the end of recording his first solo album, but too late to be included on it. Whatever music Roger had originally "fleshed out" for this song (originally to be titled "The Doctor") was obviously dropped for what has become probably Pink Floyd's most famous song.
Absolutely - Wikipedia is absolutely correct that Gilmour penned the music that would eventually be transformed, arranged, and lyricized into Comfortably Numb. I think I got carried away by the stark imagery that has been presented over time about that band meeting where Roger brought in the demos for The Wall album and Pros and Cons. With Rick and David especially commenting on how they were basically complete and they didn't know what they were really expected to add because they were so complete.

[hazel-rah]

Waters was responsible for Pink Floyd's greatness. Their records were about the concepts and the songwriting---I like gilmour's voice and his guitar playing, but very little of what we would consider to be "important" Pink Floyd had much to do w/ DG. The records made after his (roger's) departure shouldn't bear the Floyd name---they are well beneath the rest of the catalog, as it pertains to the songwriting.

[sixty2strat]

Waters was responsible for Pink Floyd's greatness. Their records were about the concepts and the songwriting---I like gilmour's voice and his guitar playing, but very little of what we would consider to be "important" Pink Floyd had much to do w/ DG. The records made after his (roger's) departure shouldn't bear the Floyd name---they are well beneath the rest of the catalog, as it pertains to the songwriting.
Far from true take Dogs Echos and Shine on. That is alot of recorded music out of their career total. very little of it is songwriting as we would get from jagger richards. The majoity of these tracks are instrumental passages wrtten by the Gilmour , Wright and Mason. Sure that argument may be true for Wywh, but I could live the rest of my life and never hear that song again. The best stuff that set them apart were their epics.

[Brendan]

Far from true take Dogs Echos and Shine on. That is alot of recorded music out of their career total. very little of it is songwriting as we would get from jagger richards. The majoity of these tracks are instrumental passages wrtten by the Gilmour , Wright and Mason. Sure that argument may be true for Wywh, but I could live the rest of my life and never hear that song again. The best stuff that set them apart were their epics.

Exactly. Their best material came from working together.

[halcyon85]

8FIAgn3L5lE

It was my understanding that Roger wrote the verses for Comfortably Numb, Gilmour wrote the chorus, and the two couldn't agree on the production, with Waters wanting a minimalist and dark sort of approach while Gilmour wanted something more bright and airy. They compromised (?) and used Roger's ideas for his parts and Gilmour's ideas for his own parts, and the original, final recording was the end product.

I don't remember where I read all that, but if anything, this demo seems to illustrate that stark contrast between Gilmour and Waters even further, and not just within the context of this one song. They were, musically, at different ends of the earth at this point.

I'm not the world's biggest Waters fan, but I do understand how important and essential his work in the band was. It was just a lot different from Gilmour's work. It all comes down to a matter of personal preference, but again, the best thing was when you (evenly) put the two together.

Actually, even as someone who leans toward Gilmour, I couldn't help but be slightly saddened to watch his performance with Roger in London in 2011 for Comfortably Numb, when he made a guest appearance. I somehow deluded myself into thinking he intentionally messed up the solo. I know no one is perfect and everyone, even David Gilmour, has a bad day, but that was the first bad day I'd ever heard from him on that song.

And thanks for posting that, by the way! I'd never heard it before. That was really awesome. Roger definitely improved the lyrics. :D

Edit: Nevermind. Just read the wikipedia page. It actually says Gilmour preferred a "grungy" style for the verses. Interesting. :huh

[Ben C.]

Actually, even as someone who leans toward Gilmour, I couldn't help but be slightly saddened to watch his performance with Roger in London in 2011 for Comfortably Numb, when he made a guest appearance. I somehow deluded myself into thinking he intentionally messed up the solo. I know no one is perfect and everyone, even David Gilmour, has a bad day, but that was the first bad day I'd ever heard from him on that song.
Edit: Nevermind. Just read the wikipedia page. It actually says Gilmour preferred a "grungy" style for the verses. Interesting. :huh
What I had heard is that Gilmour actually wanted distorted guitar for the verses. The way you hear post-Waters Floyd play Comfortably Numb (off Delicate Sound in particular) is more along the lines of what David wanted. So it's said.

And I know what you mean about the 2011 guest appearance on Water's tour. Especially after I was blown away by Kilminster early in the tour. I've actually come to grips with it... it's like the Live 8 show; he's at the point where he actually needs to practice a bit, warm up and rehearse for a couple weeks, if he's going to really perform well. He can't just 'wing it' anymore. And I think that's what happened on Rog's The Wall performance... David thought, 'I've played this 1,000 times, no problem', but when you watch carefully, it's really amateur type stuff that he's stumbling on... not intentional, but just rusty, as if he hasn't picked up the guitar in a month or so.

Ok, let's post it :)

hUYzQaCCt2o

[McStrats]

Nick Mason was only in it for the money (which he admitted) and Rick Wright was so messed up on coke he could barely play so they fired him. (most of us would have too). When Rick came back in the 80's it was only after DG and Jon Carin had completed all the keyboard parts on MLOR. He was payed very well to tour in support of the album, but Jon Carin actually played a larger role in the live sound. He was only included to give the Pink Floyd tour some legitimacy. Truth be told Gilmour or Waters had no time for Mason or Wright as musicians, or contributors to anything creative during that era.

When Roger Waters left Floyd were done as a creative force. MLOR and TDB were very very pale imitations of the 70's PF albums. The missing ingredient on Waters studio albums was Gilmours voice and skill in the studio. The song writing was there, the execution wasn't. As in a lot of cases they were much better together than apart...all that said its all old news now and time to move on....Floyd were done 30 years ago.

[Ben C.]

Truth be told Gilmour or Waters had no time for Mason or Wright as musicians, or contributors to anything creative during that era.

When Roger Waters left Floyd were done as a creative force. MLOR and TDB were very very pale imitations of the 70's PF albums. The missing ingredient on Waters studio albums was Gilmours voice and skill in the studio. The song writing was there, the execution wasn't. As in a lot of cases they were much better together than apart...all that said its all old news now and time to move on....Floyd were done 30 years ago.

I think though that David always hoped that the magic would come back; he and Wright, IMO, created what was later called 'The Floyd Sound' - soulful, melodic, slightly jazzy passages that I think defined the height of their success. When you listen to something like TDB, you can totally hear Wright's solo albums in there, and Gilmour's solo work... a very Floydian sound. What it lacks is the stacatto aggression and heavy-handed drama that Waters was able to inflect. But I don't think they were trying to recreate their 70's work as some have accused - I think what you have is members of Pink Floyd writing Pink Floyd songs sans Roger, so obviously the songs are going to somewhat sound like Pink Floyd.

When it comes down to it, I've always thought that The Wall and Final Cut were Roger solo albums, and somewhat obviously that AMLOR and TDB were Gilmour solo albums (with TDB being very much a collaborative sound though). So Floyd proper ended for me in 1978 :) .

[JRC4558Dude]

"Waters thought that"
"Gilmour felt that..."

It's remarkable how people who have never met Rogers Waters nor David Gilmour seem to know what's going on in their heads...

[Ben C.]

"Waters thought that"
"Gilmour felt that..."

It's remarkable how people who have never met Rogers Waters nor David Gilmour seem to know what's going on in their heads...
Like I said, it's based on what they've said in interviews, and what has been written in researched books, including one by Nick Mason. Shit, half the time David and Roger make statements that are contradictory to those they made only a few years earlier! So yes, it can be pretty speculative. But it's a fun discussion to have anyway, and there is a lot that they have said on the subject. I take it you've watched the 1/2 dozen documentaries, listened to the dozen radio show interviews; there's plenty that Rog and David have specifically said about what they thought and how they felt. Yes, whether they were being truthful or not is another debate for sure. But even with the bits and pieces out there, I don't see anything wrong with having a discussion about possibilities... is that a problem?

[JRC4558Dude]

Like I said, it's based on what they've said in interviews, and what has been written in researched books, including one by Nick Mason. Shit, half the time David and Roger make statements that are contradictory to those they made only a few years earlier! So yes, it can be pretty speculative. But it's a fun discussion to have anyway, and there is a lot that they have said on the subject. I take it you've watched the 1/2 dozen documentaries, listened to the dozen radio show interviews; there's plenty that Rog and David have specifically said about what they thought and how they felt. Yes, whether they were being truthful or not is another debate for sure. But even with the bits and pieces out there, I don't see anything wrong with having a discussion about possibilities... is that a problem?

No, it's not a problem at all. I just find that sometimes people over-simplify and are a little too quick to draw conclusions based a throwaway comments from an interview. Having said that, I actually found this interview with Tim Renwick to be very revealing. To hear Renwick tell it, it seems like Waters showed up at the Live8 rehearsals all ready to take over again as "leader":

http://www.gilmourish.com/?p=202

[Soul Man]

Waters was responsible for Pink Floyd's greatness. Their records were about the concepts and the songwriting---I like gilmour's voice and his guitar playing, but very little of what we would consider to be "important" Pink Floyd had much to do w/ DG. The records made after his (roger's) departure shouldn't bear the Floyd name---they are well beneath the rest of the catalog, as it pertains to the songwriting.

If Pink Floyd was 100% Roger I never would have listened. I wouldn't have been able too.

His solo work is unlistenable to me and he has done nothing memorable without David or Richard or Nick.

Waters "greatness" was made by the other three.

[paulscape]

BTW - here's a record rip of the program in question so folks who haven't heard can take a listen (includes the 1980 Waters 'Inner-View' as well).

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfinnerview.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfinnerview.zip)


Which is interesting when compared to the recent (last year's) interviews w/ David and Nick on Johnnie Walker's Sounds of the 70's (also my recording off radio & artwork):

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfjw70s.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfjw70s.zip)

Oh and why not... I also recorded the 'Record Producers: Pink Floyd' (extended) off the radio stream last year and cut it up for myself w/ some basic art as well for any Floyd fans:

home.comcast.net/~bcoutu/pfrpextended.zip (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebcoutu/pfrpextended.zip)

.
Thanks heaps man

[McStrats]

I think though that David always hoped that the magic would come back; he and Wright, IMO, created what was later called 'The Floyd Sound' - soulful, melodic, slightly jazzy passages that I think defined the height of their success. When you listen to something like TDB, you can totally hear Wright's solo albums in there, and Gilmour's solo work... a very Floydian sound. What it lacks is the stacatto aggression and heavy-handed drama that Waters was able to inflect. But I don't think they were trying to recreate their 70's work as some have accused - I think what you have is members of Pink Floyd writing Pink Floyd songs sans Roger, so obviously the songs are going to somewhat sound like Pink Floyd.

When it comes down to it, I've always thought that The Wall and Final Cut were Roger solo albums, and somewhat obviously that AMLOR and TDB were Gilmour solo albums (with TDB being very much a collaborative sound though). So Floyd proper ended for me in 1978 :) .

There is no question that Gilmour and Wright were key to 'The Floyd Sound' the Miles Davis inspired chords in Breath are a perfect example of Wright's contribution. And Gilmour was a genius in the studio, and his voice was the perfect foil for Waters coarser vocal style. All that being said...the songs that are credited to Roger were pretty much fully written by the time he introduced them to the band, and it's the lions share of their great songs. He apparently still has the original demo cassettes that he used to pitch the ideas to the band.

From my perspective Roger was the main creative force behind Floyd...and that's not taking anything away from the others because their contributions were immense...but you take away Rogers songs and ideas and there is no Floyd. I firmly believe that Gilmour could have been much more easily replaced, and that a Gilmourless Floyd would have been stronger than the Watersless one. When I see Roger Waters band doing Have a Cigar on youtube the first thing I notice is how stronger the overall delivery is compared to the 80's Floyd.

[BlackNight]

The interviewer asked David if he had problems translating his studio work into a manageable live performance. And immediately after he said he wished Led Zeppelin would carry around a few extra instruments to help fill out their live sound.

David replies very matter of fact, "I wish they would carry around a few fewer instruments . . . less singers."

Ouch. It's always interesting to hear what bands that you like think of each other.
I kind of agree. All the sexual moaning and "baby baby baby darlin unnnh momma blahba" stuff kills it (in a bad way) for me.

[Soul Man]

From Tim Renwick:

You were once again playing with the band at Live 8. It must have been a treat to participate in both such an event and the reunion of Pink Floyd!
- I was very surprised to be asked to take part in the Hyde Park concert because I had met David a few weeks earlier and he told me that he had been asked to perform but had categorically turned it down! Two weeks before the event, it seems, he had a change of heart, and called me up to play, saying that it would be a laugh to play once more with Roger in the band. It didn’t turn out to be much of a laugh! Roger appeared to want to be “group leader” from the start of rehearsals and it made for an uncomfortable atmosphere all round. He did not seem to credit the fact that most of the musicians and crew had worked together on and off for 17 years without him being there! It was, however, a great honour to have been involved – especially as I had been playing in Eric Clapton’s band on the original Live Aid concert from Philadelphia twenty years before!

[Ben C.]

No, it's not a problem at all. I just find that sometimes people over-simplify and are a little too quick to draw conclusions based a throwaway comments from an interview. Having said that, I actually found this interview with Tim Renwick to be very revealing. To hear Renwick tell it, it seems like Waters showed up at the Live8 rehearsals all ready to take over again as "leader":

http://www.gilmourish.com/?p=202

Of course, you're right - but it is interesting to discuss. I don't think anyone is an authority on these issues but David and Roger themselves! And thanks for the link- will have to listen to that when I get home today.

Thanks heaps man
No problem - enjoy! The Record Producers show is especially a ton of fun to listen to. Lost tapes, isolated tracks, song construction, etc. Good stuff.

From my perspective Roger was the main creative force behind Floyd...and that's not taking anything away from the others because their contributions were immense...but you take away Rogers songs and ideas and there is no Floyd.
I agree with that, for sure. While Gilmour and Wright may have been the soul, I do feel that Roger was the heart. Gilmour and Wright lent their talents to help shape and form Roger's vision in many cases and elevate something from good to great, but I agree that Roger was the inspiration and drive in the majority of cases.

From Tim Renwick:

You were once again playing with the band at Live 8. It must have been a treat to participate in both such an event and the reunion of Pink Floyd!
- I was very surprised to be asked to take part in the Hyde Park concert because I had met David a few weeks earlier and he told me that he had been asked to perform but had categorically turned it down! Two weeks before the event, it seems, he had a change of heart, and called me up to play, saying that it would be a laugh to play once more with Roger in the band. It didn’t turn out to be much of a laugh! Roger appeared to want to be “group leader” from the start of rehearsals and it made for an uncomfortable atmosphere all round. He did not seem to credit the fact that most of the musicians and crew had worked together on and off for 17 years without him being there! It was, however, a great honour to have been involved – especially as I had been playing in Eric Clapton’s band on the original Live Aid concert from Philadelphia twenty years before!
I remember some of that Live8 discussion... I think from Nick that it was surprising how the old dynamics came back so quickly. BUT that David basically put his foot down and when presented with a set list from Roger, said to him something like, "Well, no. Pink Floyd has been asked to play, we [David, Rick and Nick] are Pink Floyd, so these are the songs we're doing. We'd love it if you would play them with us". One of the more recent documentaries (I think it was "Which One Is Pink?") covers the Live8 events, and points out the body language when they were going out for a bow at the end... how the other three members still seemed a bit stand-offish from Roger.

In interviews, David has made it really clear that he's moved on. I think he genuinely enjoys what he's doing, and it's not even about Roger or PF anymore... he records what he wants, when he wants to, tours whenever he wants to, and enjoys that freedom. At his age, I don't blame him for not wanting to get stuck in with a band and have to operate that way anymore.

[JRC4558Dude]

Well....not surprisingly, Gilmour has a different take on the argument over the setlist for Live 8.

Waters supposedly wanted to do "Another Brick..Pt 2", which makes perfect sense, as it's one of their best-known tunes.

But Gilmour didn't think people in the developing world really needed to hear a chorus that says "We don't need no education...."

I'll side with Gilmour on that one! ;)

[Bozak]

Gilmour was always a very candid guy, I think it’s kind of refreshing but, I sided with Waters back then and still do today, he was always the genius behind PF, Gilmour is a great guitar player but really could have been replaced with anyone IMO, it's the songwriting that made PF what they are and Waters wrote almost all of the big 4 albums- Dark Side, Animals, Wall and Wish.

Also I think if Waters remained with PF they would have released more great music, instead of crap like On The Turning Away.

[McStrats]

Also I think if Waters remained with PF they would have released more great music, instead of crap like On The Turning Away.

:agree

[Soul Man]

Gilmour was always a very candid guy, I think it’s kind of refreshing but, I sided with Waters back then and still do today, he was always the genius behind PF, Gilmour is a great guitar player but really could have been replaced with anyone IMO, it's the songwriting that made PF what they are and Waters wrote almost all of the big 4 albums- Dark Side, Animals, Wall and Wish.

Also I think if Waters remained with PF they would have released more great music, instead of crap like On The Turning Away.

Or crap like Pros and Cons, Radio K.A.O.S., etc.

It's interesting that Roger makes a living now playing PF music as opposed to his solo stuff. It's interesting to him but few others.

All things considered though, I will agree that there is a common agreement we all can have whether we are David or Roger supporters:

Pink Floyd was better when both were in the group. :console

[JRC4558Dude]

All things considered though, I will agree that there is a common agreement we all can have whether we are David or Roger supporters:

Pink Floyd was better when both were in the group. :console

But what about the folks who say "Without Syd, it's NOT Pink Floyd!"???:p

[DTuned]

...Gilmour is a great guitar player but really could have been replaced with anyone IMO...

Strongly, strongly disagree. Gilmour created and played many beautiful, stirring guitar parts. His singing voice and guitar voice were the signature Pink Floyd sounds. Another guitarist would not have made Pink Floyd the amazing band we are all still raving about.

I'm not diminishing Waters' role in the band, but without David Gilmour (and the others) Waters would not have been part of creating the same beloved body of work.

[Soul Man]

But what about the folks who say "Without Syd, it's NOT Pink Floyd!"???:p

LOL exactly! :rotflmao

[Ben S.]

Oh, I hope you are a Brit living in NY rather than a pirate wanna-be.

What sayest ye, kind sir? :barf

We can't all be as cool as you. I'll survive somehow. I hope.