Help with timing

[esptiger]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.

[CowTipton]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.

Backing tracks can help I think.
They'll also give you different beats and basslines to work with.

I agree the metronome gets annoying pretty quickly.

[vhollund]

A trick to make a metronome less boring
Set the metronome to half time and let it play 2 and 4
(works with monotone metronome)

[Seraphine]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.

Play to recorded tunes you like of various tempo and style. Live shows might be even more fun then studio works. short of being in a band with a good drummer or two and setting the tempo yourself at times... This works.

If you have any keyboards you can use the drums etc in many of them.... as with a drum machine... There's so many ways to work timing without a tick tok clock meter maid. Though one might consider a drum machine a very well dressed meter maid? hmmmmm

[Seraphine]

A trick to make a metronome less boring
Set the metronome to half time and let it play 2 and 4
(works with monotone metronome)

This is brilliant advice. One of the best uses I've found for a clock.

[flavaham]

This is brilliant advice. One of the best uses I've found for a clock.

:agree

[anderson110]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.

Well, the metronome isn't supposed to be providing anything of real interest, it's only supposed to be supplying a time reference. If you're doing it right, you won't really notice it's there so much.

So if you're bored, I think that's more about what you're playing, than it is about the metronome. I suggest looking at what you're playing rather than at whether or not you're using a metronome.

[StanG]

So what if you think a metronome is boring. Using a metronome will improve your time, and if you don't like the state of your time and are not willing to put in the work to improve it, it won't improve.

[GtrWiz]

So what if you think a metronome is boring. Using a metronome will improve your time, and if you don't like the state of your time and are not willing to put in the work to improve it, it won't improve.


does anyone really think hardass answers like this are a help to anyone? :rolleyes:


Anyway, I took a lesson with Wayne Krantz and he suggested recording myself playing with a metronome for one minute and then listen back. Repeat this with a bunch of different tempos and keys. He also advised against setting it on 2 & 4 as there's too much space between the clicks to accurately reference against when listening back.

[dewey decibel]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.


Depends what your actual issues are. Are you loosing the time as you play? Having trouble executing lines? Speeding up, slowing down, etc?

does anyone really think hardass answers like this are a help to anyone? :rolleyes:

I actually do. He said a metronome is boring, it's not supposed to be exciting, it's a box that makes a click. Practice is boring, how do I get better? Yeah, that kind of deserves a little :bonk . IMHO...

[Christoph R.]

Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.


check this! esp. the stuff from 5:00

9X1fhVLVF_4

[guitarjazz]

The click track I've heard in the studio for the last 35 years isn't boring. I hear k'ching with every tic!

[guitarjazz]

does anyone really think hardass answers like this are a help to anyone? :rolleyes:


Anyway, I took a lesson with Wayne Krantz and he suggested recording myself playing with a metronome for one minute and then listen back. Repeat this with a bunch of different tempos and keys. He also advised against setting it on 2 & 4 as there's too much space between the clicks to accurately reference against when listening back.
I don't think that was a hardass answer so much as the truth. Getting it together in music takes a huge amount of patience. In this age of instant gratification I'm sure patience is hard to find.
I used to have a device called the RussianDragon that let you see with your eyes if you are rushing or dragging to the metronome. You can do the same thing now with Pro Tools. Record a click, then record yourself playing with it and you'll see if you are locked in or not.
I am fine playing tight to a metronome, especially in the studio but I don't think time always has to be so straight up and down. Maybe it has to start there but there can be some elasticity if the feel is good.

[RLD]

I used to have a device called the RussianDragon that let you see with your eyes if you are rushing or dragging to the metronome. You can do the same thing now with Pro Tools. Record a click, then record yourself playing with it and you'll see if you are locked in or not.

Can't you just use your ears? :roll

[guitarjazz]

Can't you just use your ears? :roll
God no, ears are overrated. But seriously, I used to think my time was pretty good till I started to do a lot of sessions. There's nothing like wearing the dunce cap in the studio when the producer or drummer says 'You're ahead' or 'You're behind'. I don't claim to be as OCD as Krantz (listen to his lesson tape) about being in the pocket, but there was a period where I tried to listen, and look to see if I could find the difference between where the beat really was and where I thought it was. This was time well spent, no pun intended.
I also worked with the Uwe Kropinski 'Getting in Time' book, which you can use with any material you are working on, for several years.
http://www.kropinski.com/englisch/musik_klick.php

[Seraphine]

Can't you just use your ears? :roll

Ears are good....

It's fun seeing it as well... but all this brings to mind using a delay for similar purpose... set the delay for a half or second delay and play the next notes between the delays... evenly... This is another fun trick and the ears are used for focus.

[dewey decibel]

...but there was a period where I tried to listen, and look to see if I could find the difference between where the beat really was and where I thought it was.



Oh yeah, been there! Only way to get into that is to listen to recordings of yourself.

[Elektrik_SIxx]

Well, the metronome isn't supposed to be providing anything of real interest, it's only supposed to be supplying a time reference. If you're doing it right, you won't really notice it's there so much.

So if you're bored, I think that's more about what you're playing, than it is about the metronome. I suggest looking at what you're playing rather than at whether or not you're using a metronome.
This, and
So what if you think a metronome is boring. Using a metronome will improve your time, and if you don't like the state of your time and are not willing to put in the work to improve it, it won't improve.
..this!
If you really want to improve in your weak areas you don't mind putting in the work, 'boring'or not. By the way , I don't see anything boring in practicing with a metronome. It definitely helped improve my time and there was nothing boring in the process. It's probably more your attitude toward putting in the work that makes it boring.

[Poppa Stoppa]

What can help my timing improve. Obviously a metronome but that gets boring and uninteresting really quickly.Well there's at least two parts to it:
1. playing to an external beat like a metronome or a drum pattern and hearing when you're ahead, behind or on top of the beat
2. working on your motor skills until your picking sounds like a groove machine.

[buddastrat]

So what if you think a metronome is boring. Using a metronome will improve your time, and if you don't like the state of your time and are not willing to put in the work to improve it, it won't improve.

I agree. Have to put in some work. we all have to work on things and tend to gravitate towards the stuff that comes easy to us, and that's "fun" because it doesn't involve work. The good players know to work on the things that are harder for them.

It's the old, if your practicing sounds good all the time, you aren't practicing the right stuff.

[Sensible Musician]

there are a lot of issues at hand, and you are wise to prioritize this whole area. all the musician jokes regarding guitar players that aren't about being too loud or arrogant are about timing. here are some of the issues


steady beat
rhythmic acuity: how much detail do you hear
specificity: how precise is your rhythm and how much detail
vocabulary


best case scenario is you work through a whole program designed by a qualified expert. next best is you apprentice with better players - NOT GUITAR PLAYERS. after that learning from recordings, then stored beats (loops, midi loops), then programmed patterns (ableton, drum machines if they still make them), then metronome...

it will actually hurt your time and rhythm to play with a poor drummer. you are better off doing whatever you need to do to get with a good rhythm section

BTW most guitar players think drummers are responsible for rhythm and time, but in most styles and locales i've worked in, bass is the timekeeper. ask any good bass player about pocket drummers and they will get misty telling all their favorite people to play with - and that list won't necessarily have any crossover with flashy, "amazing" drummers

see if you can find any info online or in books on rhythmic solfege. you kinda need this in order to build a rhythmic vocabulary. counting doesn't have any intrinsic relationship with rhythm; counting just explains notation, which doesn't matter until you have a huge vocabulary, anyway

after you get some momentum going in your study, watch dave liebman's understanding jazz rhythm. even if you're not interested in jazz, this vid will give you the categories for listening to mature players and picking up on what they are doing

[JSeth]

First thing I thought of was along the lines of the "So what if the metronome is boring?" reply...

Working with a metronome CAN be fun, but that's really not the point, is it? The POINT is to improve your sense of time and meter... and THAT is one thing that a metronome will do, in spades!

The cool thing about the metronome is (or one cool thing) that once you've ingrained steady time inside your little brain, IT STAYS THERE! Seriously, I worked extensively with a metronome for a period of several years, back in the late 70's; since then, it takes very little work with a metronome to "re-calibrate" my inner sense of time, to get everything dialed back in to focus... something about having a "real-time" experience of what a 16th note pattern "feels" like, against a steady beat, and one can replicate that feeling. All that work with a metronome expanded my musical vocabulary immensely... now, I "hear" lines that seem appropriate and "right', against various rhythms, that just didn't occur to me before...

One thing that worked for me was to play scales against a VERY SLOW tempo; doing all the subdivisions of meter; whole notes, half notes, 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes (straight and swing), triplets, 16ths,... then, later, 16th note triplets and 32nd notes... PLAYING AS PERFECTLY AS I COULD, ESPECIALLY with the slower time.

I would imagine pebbles dropping into a clear pool, and the perfect symmetry of the ripples, spreading outward... made my practise into some sort of Zen-like routine...

Doing it slowly is KEY! Once you get used to playing slowly, perfectly, playing to faster tempos is just not a problem... matter of fact, it's easier to play more quickly than REALLY SLOW... and our bodies/minds just transpose the speed thing without any trouble, at all.

It may be a pain in the ass, but it works really well. Using backing tracks may be fun, but you need to hear JUST YOURSELF and that pesky beat! At least you don't have to deal with the old-school "wind up" type of metronome; when I used those, there was always this question of "Is it me? Or is this thing WAY off?!!!" - which, in fact, they were! Get a decent quartz lock metronome for $15-25 and get to work!

Good luck... it is REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!

play on............................................>

[esptiger]

First thing I thought of was along the lines of the "So what if the metronome is boring?" reply...

Working with a metronome CAN be fun, but that's really not the point, is it? The POINT is to improve your sense of time and meter... and THAT is one thing that a metronome will do, in spades!

The cool thing about the metronome is (or one cool thing) that once you've ingrained steady time inside your little brain, IT STAYS THERE! Seriously, I worked extensively with a metronome for a period of several years, back in the late 70's; since then, it takes very little work with a metronome to "re-calibrate" my inner sense of time, to get everything dialed back in to focus... something about having a "real-time" experience of what a 16th note pattern "feels" like, against a steady beat, and one can replicate that feeling. All that work with a metronome expanded my musical vocabulary immensely... now, I "hear" lines that seem appropriate and "right', against various rhythms, that just didn't occur to me before...

One thing that worked for me was to play scales against a VERY SLOW tempo; doing all the subdivisions of meter; whole notes, half notes, 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes (straight and swing), triplets, 16ths,... then, later, 16th note triplets and 32nd notes... PLAYING AS PERFECTLY AS I COULD, ESPECIALLY with the slower time.

I would imagine pebbles dropping into a clear pool, and the perfect symmetry of the ripples, spreading outward... made my practise into some sort of Zen-like routine...

Doing it slowly is KEY! Once you get used to playing slowly, perfectly, playing to faster tempos is just not a problem... matter of fact, it's easier to play more quickly than REALLY SLOW... and our bodies/minds just transpose the speed thing without any trouble, at all.

It may be a pain in the ass, but it works really well. Using backing tracks may be fun, but you need to hear JUST YOURSELF and that pesky beat! At least you don't have to deal with the old-school "wind up" type of metronome; when I used those, there was always this question of "Is it me? Or is this thing WAY off?!!!" - which, in fact, they were! Get a decent quartz lock metronome for $15-25 and get to work!

Good luck... it is REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!

play on............................................>

I think this is the best advice on here. I guess I looked at the metronome in a kind of bad way I guess. I don't think I need a book to teach me how to stay on time. I am very aware of different rhythmic patterns I just can't seem to play along with them for a good period of time. Thanks though!

[dsimon665]

I used to have a device called the RussianDragon that let you see with your eyes if you are rushing or dragging to the metronome.

That sounds like a cool device...I have an electronic drum pad that lets you see where you are in relation to the beat. But alas, its for drumming not geetar playin! I agree its great to have another way (besides ears) to analyze this stuff. Especially if you cant tell w/ your ears. The visual thing leaves no room for interpretation.

[Rad Skronker]

check out how Frank makes working with a rhythm track fun.

you can do these exercises with just a metronome.

Here is one from the internet.
http://http://www.metronomeonline.com/ (http://http//www.metronomeonline.com/)

GUCC-bPvGeM

[anderson110]

check out how Frank makes working with a rhythm track fun.


That seemed like torture to me. Or did you mean the girls?

[Rad Skronker]

That seemed like torture to me. Or did you mean the girls?


doesn't work for you? Ok.

it's just one of many possibilities.

thanks for your opinion.

[dsimon665]

check out how Frank makes working with a rhythm track fun.



I love that chopbuilder video...Its about 1 hour long of non-stop playing. I could never play it at 100% - I ripped it into my slower downer software and worked it up to about 70%. I learned all of it except the ending "cool down" part (I think after the sweeps).

I always wanted to get to where I could play the whole hour in one shot but never got there. Great potential for RSI! :roll (repetitive stress injury)

[guitarjazz]

I think this is the best advice on here. I guess I looked at the metronome in a kind of bad way I guess. I don't think I need a book to teach me how to stay on time. I am very aware of different rhythmic patterns I just can't seem to play along with them for a good period of time. Thanks though!
What you need is a drummer buddy to give you the evil eye when you stray!

[Clifford-D]

I "d lo ve toh elp you withy our ti min g

b ut as yo ucan see, my counting sucks

just kidding

try running a 1/4 note through a measure of 1/8 notes

l 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 - l

l 1 & 2 & 3 & - & l

l 1 & 2 & 3 - 4 & l

l 1 & 2 & - & 4 & l

l 1 & 2 - 3 & 4 & l

l 1 & - & 3 & 4 & l

l 1 - 2 & 3 & 4 & l

[fjblair]

So what if you think a metronome is boring. Using a metronome will improve your time, and if you don't like the state of your time and are not willing to put in the work to improve it, it won't improve.


That is so not true. Playing with drum machine or rhythm/backing tracks will accomplish the same goal quicker if it's more fun. Worked for me. Life is too short to practice with a friggin metronome.

[Julia343]

1. The first goal is to develop a good internal clock. If you can do this you're one step ahead of the game. Practice rhythm playing. It really does help. Drum tracks work, even foot stomping works. What do you think they did down home in the delta? Life is to short for a friggin metronome.

2. What are your issues? Are certain technical problems preventing you from keeping a steady tempo? If that's the case you need to isolate that passage until you learn it well slowly, then speed it up. Break it down into its phrases. This is not rocket science. Then put the phrases together. Then speed those phrases up. If it falls apart slow it down again.

I haven't practiced with a metronome since I was 10. I can play to a click track and be dead bang. Why? Because I'll take the time to learn what I need to do.

I don't practice technique. I learn songs. That's the goal right? Practice the songs you want to learn. The techniques are in the songs. If the song contains a lot of sweeps, you'll learn the technique for doing the sweeps by learning that song. It's just muscle memory. You'll have a lot more fun doing it, plus you'll learn something worth playing for someone.

Sorry if this goes counter to a lot of the teacher advice. This is the way I learned on the piano. I studied with concert artists. They told me to throw away the metronome because I was too hard on myself and was losing focus on the music.

When I went to a guitar teacher who had me do metronome work, I was like if I don't know the value of a dotted quarter by this point, I might was well return the instrument and you might as well return my lesson money because I'll never learn it. I'd been playing longer than he'd been alive.

[russ6100]

That is so not true. Playing with drum machine or rhythm/backing tracks will accomplish the same goal quicker if it's more fun. Worked for me. Life is too short to practice with a friggin metronome.

I'm an advocate of both methods but consider this:

When playing with backing tracks, the time is being fed to you. Imagine a funk track, with the drummer playing 16th notes on the hi-hat - the smaller the subdivision of the beat, the easier it is to keep / feel the beat.

But when playing with a metronome set on beats 2 and 4, a lot of time goes by where the time is all on you, thus making you more part of the total equation. And it quickly becomes apparent if you're sucking.

[fjblair]

I'm an advocate of both methods but consider this:

When playing with backing tracks, the time is being fed to you. Imagine a funk track, with the drummer playing 16th notes on the hi-hat - the smaller the subdivision of the beat, the easier it is to keep / feel the beat.

But when playing with a metronome set on beats 2 and 4, a lot of time goes by where the time is all on you, thus making you more part of the total equation. And it quickly becomes apparent if you're sucking.


True enough but I'm just saying if the monotonous boredom of a metronome is going to keep you from practicing then rhythm tracks are great alternative.

[Julia343]

I'm an advocate of both methods but consider this:

When playing with backing tracks, the time is being fed to you. Imagine a funk track, with the drummer playing 16th notes on the hi-hat - the smaller the subdivision of the beat, the easier it is to keep / feel the beat.

But when playing with a metronome set on beats 2 and 4, a lot of time goes by where the time is all on you, thus making you more part of the total equation. And it quickly becomes apparent if you're sucking.

2 and 4..... I set up a track with a high hat on two and four once. Every four bars a short fill so I wouldn't get lost. My teacher got lost on it. I didn't. It's a great exercise.

[russ6100]

2 and 4..... I set up a track with a high hat on two and four once. Every four bars a short fill so I wouldn't get lost. My teacher got lost on it. I didn't. It's a great exercise.

If your teacher couldn't hang with a metronome on 2 & 4 it's time for a new teacher - seriously.

[GtrWiz]

2 & 4 is great once you get to a certain point but you have to make sure your subdivisions are even way, way before you get to a point where setting the metronome to 2 & 4 is helpful.

[willhutch]

I resolve to do more metronome work. It is harder than playing with a rhythm section or backing tracks because you aren't getting all the subdivisions. And its a truth telling device that tells you if you lose the beat. I consider myself to have decent time. But I find that playing steady with the nome on 2 and 4 is hard.

Here's something if you feel bored: turn on the nome....and NOODLE.....but noodle in time. This is an edifying exercise for those who play for fun and aren't interested in "taking medicine" during practice. You can still wet your noodle, but have some kind of reference that forces a little discipline on you.

Another idea: make the metronome feel like music. Start the click and play a rhythmic figure. Imagine tne click to be a percussion instrument. Sync up. Now make it sound groovy. With some imagination, you can find a sweet spot where the click becomes an instrument and playing with it feels like dancing.

[willhutch]

steady beat
rhythmic acuity: how much detail do you hear
specificity: how precise is your rhythm and how much detail
vocabulary



"Rhythmic acuity". YES! I've never had the word...so the concept never took form for me until I saw it written in your post.

I play with a drummer in an Afro-American church doing gospel. I've always been blown away by the rhythmic detail he hears and reproduces. He gets every nuance to every song.

And his specificity! I'm especially impressed when he plays slow or spacious songs. He'll play many measures of high hat on 2 and 4 then suddenly put in some complex line that falls just perfectly. He doesn't need to be playing all the subdivisions to help keep his place. He's the only drummer that causes me to imagine things when he plays: canyon, skyscrapers, mountains. I feel the time in the spaces he leaves.

Thanks for the words. I'm playing a lot of neo-soul and gospel these days. Much of the interest in this music lies in the little rhythmic twists. I now realize I've been glossing over many of these subtleties. Maybe my rhythmic acuity needs some attention.

Its amazing how having a word for something can crystallize a concept that wasn't there before. The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis in action!

[Jon]

Found this article on the web years ago - seems like interesting and useful stuff to me - hope the author doesn't mind me re-posting it here:

"As a professional drummer who has done hundreds of studio sessions I have to say that playing to a metronome is a difficult task to learn and I for one, really enjoy it live. There are tricks to learning how to be able to be ‘expressive’ and ‘human’ while doing so. The fact is that most drummers don’t know how to do it in a more expressive way.
Here is a set of exercises designed to help you learn how to play to a metronome with feeling and ease: try this(even if you’ve never attempted to play to metronomes before):

Set a metronome to a very comfortable speed where the click is set to 16th notes (NOT ¼ notes).
Now play a 16th note hi hat pattern (kick on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4) on hi hat (or touches if you are a percussionist or double picked palm mutes if you are a guitarist or bassist or, or , or)
As you play, see if you can audio-hallucinate that the metronome is almost imperceptively slowing down. Keep trying and try to project onto your listening that the machine is losing energy and slowing down.
FEEL IT SLOW DOWN and then allow yourself to slow down with it. The more you do this exercise, the more you will be able to project this concept on your hearing....of course it is not actually happening, but you can convince yourself that it is.
Keep letting it slow until it is going as slow as you can imagine it.
NOW, try to ‘drag’ it down even further by playing slower. Never let yourself get away from it, but play as slowly as you can possibly play with out getting off of it.
At some point you will play so slowly that it will start to sound ‘wrong’.
This is a crucial place. Now begin to experiment with finding the exact spot in your playing where it starts to feel wrong.
Purposefully let yourself lose the metronome and then try to very slowly speed up until you are back with it again.
The important thing here (and with all metronomic playing) is to not try and correct immediately, but rather, to let yourself drift back to accuracy.
As weird as it may feel, when you remove the metronome and go back and listen to the recording of yourself, YOU WON”T EVEN HEAR THE MISTAKE.
Okay, bear with me now.
Now go back and do the same exercise, except audio hallucinate that the metronome is now slowing starting to speed up. follow the same instructions as above.
Once you can do either of these exercises with impunity, try going to the slowest point you can (without ever letting the metronome get away from you) and then take 2 minutes to slowly speed up to get ‘perfectly’ in sync with the metronome. Then take 2 minutes to slowly speed up until you are playing as fast as you can without getting away from the metronome. Now reverse this entire process and slow down to the slowest again. Take four minutes to do so. this is difficult, btw, but you can do it and the concentration that you will need will start to give you a brand new understanding of just how deep ‘time’ is, even when you are playing to a constant metronomic speed.

Repeat this process:

· 1 minute from Slowest to normal

· 1 minute from normal to Fastest

· 30 seconds from Slowest to normal
· 30 seconds from normal to Fastest
· then 15 seconds for the same proceedure
· and finally, How quickly can you go between playing as slow as you can to how fast you can.
ALL RIGHT, NOW IS THE AMAZING THING:

Now play to the metronome and don’t think about it. You will now play perfectly in sync without ever having attempted it before.
What we have just learned how to do is to play ‘behind the beat’ (or fatback drumming as it is called by R&B drummers in the south) and play ‘ahead of the beat’(really prevalent in rock and roll, big band music---but not always).
Some of the ways that I cultivate this is by thinking of emotional states that can go with playing behind the beat or playing ahead of the beat.
Behind the Beat states: tired, languorous, depressed, sad, drunk (or other depressants), sleepy, a feeling of physical ‘heaviness’(this one really works for me---‘how heavy can I feel and still play accurately-----almost invariably, I will play behind the beat feeling this way)
Ahead of the Beat states: nervous, edgy, excited, angry, aggressive, to much coffee (or other stimulants)
I find if I emotionally hallucinate these states, that I will play commensurately behind or ahead of the beat.
Of course, the metronome never strays, it is just your perception and reaction to it that strays.
This is such a powerful skill. With it can allow you to completely change the feel of a piece of music form languorously playing ‘way back’ on the beat to a very edgy, nervous, excited playing ‘way up on the beat’.
You can also use this technique to reel in an errant bass player or rhythm guitarist who has either.........drunk too much coffee or drunk too much beer or who is really angry (tends to rush) or really bummed out (tends to drag).
A great technique that I have used for years to accomplish this is to play perfectly metronomically (to the best of your ability) and the play the snare drum as a flam that either flams late (behind the beat) or flams early (ahead of the beat). It is amazing how you can get another musician to unconsciously respond to your movement here. Great drummers all have an intrinsic grasp of this process (although most of them haven’t done this particular exercise to learn it).
I have used this method on beginning beginner students who have never ever played to a metronome (and you know how dicey that can be) and they are able to play perfectly with the metronome in the first hour of play. Amazing.
good luck, let me know if you have any success with this technique.
yours, Rick Walker (loop.pool)"

[buddyboy69]

what i have always done when my timing is lagging, is to grab a pair of drum sticks, a practice pad, metronome and a snare drum rudiment book and start smackin'. these days i have a drum kit that i go to so its a bit more fun, but stepping away from the guitar and working on the internal clock work wonders for me. when i go back to the guitar my timing is right there and the struggle is gone. i periodically do this to keep it strong.

[Julia343]

If your teacher couldn't hang with a metronome on 2 & 4 it's time for a new teacher - seriously.

I did. I audition the teacher.

[Seraphine]

I did. I audition the teacher.

Why did you want a "teacher"? Because you liked the way they played?

[Julia343]

No. Because I wanted to learn technique on the guitar. I know theory, timing, etc., on the piano. I was just starting on the guitar. I knew my chords, but I wanted to break out of the classical thought patterns. Just show me the nuts and bolts, and some songs that work on those. Anyway, after that experience I'm self taught. When I say I audition the teacher, I find out if they can teach pretty quickly, or if they're full of sh**.

I got referrals for piano coaching too. Note coaching, not lessons. Sometimes you need someone to listen.

[Seraphine]

No. Because I wanted to learn technique on the guitar. I know theory, timing, etc., on the piano. I was just starting on the guitar. I knew my chords, but I wanted to break out of the classical thought patterns. Just show me the nuts and bolts, and some songs that work on those. Anyway, after that experience I'm self taught. When I say I audition the teacher, I find out if they can teach pretty quickly, or if they're full of sh**.

I got referrals for piano coaching too. Note coaching, not lessons. Sometimes you need someone to listen.

What are you interested in at the moment ( on gtr )... what are you working on? technique, style.. tunes etc...

[JonR]

That is so not true. Playing with drum machine or rhythm/backing tracks will accomplish the same goal quicker if it's more fun. Worked for me. Life is too short to practice with a friggin metronome.But a drum machine gives you too much info. That's why it's more fun - you don't have to work so hard. The metronome makes you work, that's why it's better.
Of course, you can use a drum machine like a metronome, eg by setting just a hi-hat on the beat (nothing else), so at least you get a less annoying sound than the damn metronome.
Or you can just have a snare sound on 2 and 4, to make you work harder (and still be more fun than a metronome).

If facing that kind of "hard work" means you won't do it at all, then yes, a drum machine (full pattern) is better than nothing. But it won't train your internal clock as well.
But if you regard improving your music skills as "hard work", you're probably never going to get very good anyway.

Personally I agree metronomes are irritating. I avoided practising with them for years, including years playing in bands. But I've always had problems with pushing the tempo, and metronome practice made me realise why. I thought I was OK (just sometimes got ahead of the beat a little). Playing with a metronome exposed how bad my sense of time actually was. I would be OK playing rhythm, managed to hold back and lock in with the click, but when I started soloing I was convinced the metronome was slowing down. It really didn't feel like I was speeding up at all. IOW, my whole time consciousness was faulty. Soloing, I realised, meant my brain switched to another gear: I was thinking faster, and the metronome was slow in comparison; but of course it was correct.

Like I say, I'd played in bands for years (decades) before this point. I didn't know how bad I was; I'd just got away with it. (They were always semi-pro bands, and often the other guys would be as bad as me, if not worse.) It was a real wake-up call.