What's your best advice for improving picking speed and accuracy?

[bluesman]

I'm not trying to be blindingly fast but I need to improve. Any tips on how to practice, pick angle, wrist movement, anything, would be appreciated.

[esptiger]

http://www.metalmethod.com/lead-guitar-lesson-speed-kills-3.htm

Learn it.

[guitarjazz]

Pick up any of the Steve Kaufman books and learn some fiddle tunes.

[sacakl]

http://www.metalmethod.com/lead-guitar-lesson-speed-kills-3.htm

Learn it.

OMG. Doug Marks....f'ing awesome! This and learning Black Sabbath is how i started playing. Back in '86. Lol!

[AndyNOLA]

I'm not trying to be blindingly fast but I need to improve. Any tips on how to practice, pick angle, wrist movement, anything, would be appreciated.

I am happy to share one thing that worked for me, imagine that the pick is a small extension of your index finger. Use your thumb passively to hold the pick in place but generate motion with the index finger only. Now instead of trying to move that index finger index back and forth across a string, try and develop what feels like an almost circular motion on some arpeggios or three note blues riffs, whatever you want....you will feel when this motion kicks in because a circle has a very powerful rhythmic, and you will feel it in your fingers when you are doing this correctly. Concentrate on that index finger....and think about drawing small circles. Good luck!

[gennation]

I'd say take a look at your hands when you play something fast to the point of you hitting your limit then play it exactly the same way slow and work accuracy into it and then speed. The main thing is to notice the difference between your slow technique and your comfort-zone fast technique.

Many people use their "slow technique" and try to make it faster as opposed to realizing they might not naturally play it that way when do try and play it fast. You fast technique is like your go-to technique when playing something fast and can be VERY different when playing it slow.

Here's a great example, notice Vernon's right hand when he's playing slow, long bendy lines, and then notice the drastic change when he speeds up and goes ball to the walls...it's plain as day. Now go out and watch vids of other great players and notice their different techniques for slow and fast playing...then notice in your own playing.

Makes you wonder if Vernon could even play with that speed using his slow technique. He has his own comfort zone technique for playing fast.

PqablKFGnM0

[geetarplayer]

"Speed Kills 3 is easy enough for an intermediate player, but challenging enough to bring an advanced guitarist to his knees." I'm sure glad I'm an intermediate player!

[xntrick]

i had great success using the Stylus Pick, it took a good 2 months until i saw improvement but it was well worth it.

http://www.styluspick.com/

[xAx1s]

I have just started trying to improve my picking and i have noticed a couple of things that may help you.

1. Tension will slow you down and may even cause long term injury. Guthrie mentions in a video that you should believe what you are doing isn't difficult, tell yourself that, to try and relax as you play. Look for tension and try to ease up/slow down when you spot it.

2. Minimize motion. The pick should move the bare minimum to play the notes. Large motions will make it tougher to get up in speed.

3. Look for areas in your technique that are hindering you. For instance, i have always anchored my pinky to the body/pickguard. I noticed that this is causing tension in my wrist and bending it unnaturally as i play. I have just begun playing more ala Paul Gilberts hand positioning and my hand moves much easier/looser. I don't FEEL as if i have as much control yet, but i have more speed and accuracy (if that makes sense)

4. The goal (in my opinion) is that whatever you play should feel and be completely natural to you. It shouldn't feel like hard work or that you have to fight the instrument. The only way to do that is repetition. Slowly over time it just gets easier and easier but you have to put in the time/effort.


Two books i recommend -

http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Discipline-CD-John-Petrucci/dp/1576234746/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330321164&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Mechanics-Lead-Guitar-Stetina/dp/0793509629/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330321209&sr=1-1

Some good videos below on picking, good luck!!


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RVu8YnVAKZI

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[buddastrat]

I'd say take a look at your hands when you play something fast to the point of you hitting your limit then play it exactly the same way slow and work accuracy into it and then speed. The main thing is to notice the difference between your slow technique and your comfort-zone fast technique.

Many people use their "slow technique" and try to make it faster as opposed to realizing they might not naturally play it that way when do try and play it fast. You fast technique is like your go-to technique when playing something fast and can be VERY different when playing it slow.

Here's a great example, notice Vernon's right hand when he's playing slow, long bendy lines, and then notice the drastic change when he speeds up and goes ball to the walls...it's plain as day. Now go out and watch vids of other great players and notice their different techniques for slow and fast playing...then notice in your own playing.

Makes you wonder if Vernon could even play with that speed using his slow technique. He has his own comfort zone technique for playing fast.

PqablKFGnM0

ecchhh...I don't recommend doing that at all. Because players that do that usually just trem pick when they change their technique. So they play slow or fast, but what about all that middle tempo. It should be a more natural position for all speeds and a lot of technique. So if you're saying to work backwards, and look at your fast playing and then learn to play slow, I'd agree with you. Yes some people do make it work. EVH, Santana. But their fast picking is only on one string usually because they don't want slop. Vernon OTOH....

If you listen to his fast playing, he's in his "trem picking position" and his two hands are just not in synch. and he doesn't mute anything!!!!!!! Drives me nuts. It's the same way he played back in Living Color. he'll sound clean if he stays on one string, but he can't pick fast and do string changes. It reminds me of when we first tried and play fast and just go for it. The notes come out and the non guitar players think your fast, but nothing was clean.

For the OP, I'd find the type of player you enjoy listening to and see how they do it. Every hand pick position offers up pros and cons. I like a lot of styles hybrid, chicken pick, circle pick, as well as typical alternate and sweep things, so I kinda thought it through and looked at players who were able to do all that stuff and use a similar position and movements. It really works too. The pick hand position is sooo critical for good exectution and muting.

[Tito83]

I'm a bag of bad habits, never had any discpline. I do ok playing some shreddy stuff, but I'm not by a long stretch a precise player. I recently joined a Mr. Big tribute band and was forced to take a closer look to my picking and I had a break through.

To get the "Gilbert effect", that neat staccato sounding thing, I tended to play pretty hard, because that's how it sounded to me. What I realized was that precision and accuracy is WAY more important then strengh. I started to pretty much just scratch the strings with the pick and after a couple of days my picking improved a great deal, and the "Gilbert effect" was coming together. For me what worked also was to get a lighter touch with my fretting hand using the same idea, that precision is the key, not strengh.

So, that's it... Precison, NOT strengh. Your hand has to be stiff enough only to be precise, but you do not have to dig in every note to make they come out cleanly.

[gennation]

if you're saying to work backwards, and look at your fast playing and then learn to play slow, I'd agree with you.

For the OP, I'd find the type of player you enjoy listening to and see how they do it. Every hand pick position offers up pros and cons. I like a lot of styles hybrid, chicken pick, circle pick, as well as typical alternate and sweep things, so I kinda thought it through and looked at players who were able to do all that stuff and use a similar position and movements. It really works too. The pick hand position is sooo critical for good exectution and muting.

All of this is exactly what I'm saying. I'm definitely not saying to pick like Vernon picks (that's his comfort zone) but for the OP to find his own fast technique and then develop his own comfort zone from square one biulding accuracy into it with building speed on top of it.

And yes, I also mentioned going out to look at what ever favorite guitarist he might have and see what the difference between their slow and fast technique is.

[GovernorSilver]

My picking accuracy started to improve after I practiced the Steve Morse picking exercise for a few weeks:

http://www.stevemorse.info/tab/personal.jpg

It's a nice sounding piece of music, so that motivated me to practice it - motivation is such a key to any successful practice. There is a lot of string skipping, so the desire to hear this nice bit of music forced me to pick more accurately.

In my experience, with greater picking accuracy came increased speed. So you should focus on the accuracy first, and playing with as little tension as possible.

After working with the Morse exercise, I was motivated to try even better sounding pieces to learn and play. Bach's solo violin Sonatas and Partitas were the next place to look.

[gennation]

I have a 5 part tutorial specifically for accuracy and playing clean:

http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/play-this-to-a-metronome-series-picking-accuracy-t45.html

Picking Accuracy Part 1: Even Attack, Warming Up, Due Diligence, Training Fido
Picking Accuracy Part 2: Crosspicking, managing exercises
Picking Accuracy Part 3: String Skipping, and waking up the picking hand
Picking Accuracy Part 4: Pick Control and Skating on the Fretboard
Picking Accuracy Part 5: Al Di Meola's Golden Suite Dawn, palm muting

They will make your picking cleaner for sure. These are each mini lessons I use with students to get their hands to be able to follow the creative side of their playing. It is also a great tool for having them working diligently with a metronome. Which means...

these exercise are to be played with a metronome!!!

They increasingly get harder, so make sure you can nail the one lesson in your sleep before moving to the next.

Enjoy and good luck!

[buddastrat]

All of this is exactly what I'm saying. I'm definitely not saying to pick like Vernon picks (that's his comfort zone) but for the OP to find his own fast technique and then develop his own comfort zone from square one biulding accuracy into it with building speed on top of it.

And yes, I also mentioned going out to look at what ever favorite guitarist he might have and see what the difference between their slow and fast technique is.

Well that I agree with, it just wasn't clear.

I have noticed too, that all these speedy players have their pet, go-to licks when they want to show off. So they've practiced them A LOT and it's become muscle memory more than anything. When Yngwie says he's improvising, he's really stringing together practiced licks, in different order.

[buddastrat]

I think something of importance to mention that hasn't yet, is tone. Listen to the tone, because your pick hand originates that and is a big factor on how you sound. Some of these guys play fast, but really have a bad sound because of some weird picking style. That's real important, probably more than speed. Like Michael Angelo, he alternate picks fast, but sticks his hand up in the air and consequently, can't mute the bass strings not played, or stacatto palm muted stuff. But his style lets him get a high speed for picking, just sacrificing other more important (imo) things.

[dhdfoster]

Agreed. Simply tightening up your elbow or arm and trem picking as fast as you can without regard to your hands being in synch is not actually “fast” playing IMO. I started on piano and to me it’s not different than walking up to a piano and just poking the keys with both hands as fast as you can. It you can actually play fast, you can play a melody like Mary Had a Little Lamb clearly and cleanly at 180 bpm. That’s different than hitting every note in that melody 3 or 4 sloppy times. I’d rather play slow than do that cheater fast playing, as it sounds terrible to me.

[gennation]

Well that I agree with, it just wasn't clear.

I have noticed too, that all these speedy players have their pet, go-to licks when they want to show off. So they've practiced them A LOT and it's become muscle memory more than anything. When Yngwie says he's improvising, he's really stringing together practiced licks, in different order.

Sorry about that. This topic has always been hard for me to explain in test for some reason. That's why I used the extreme example of Vernon. But I think we are on track now.

[matte]

you never hesitate to denigrate established players.


When Yngwie says he's improvising, he's really stringing together practiced licks, in different order.


i've known vernon for nearly 30 years and my personal experience directly contradicts this reductionist assessment.



ecchhh...I don't recommend doing that at all. Because players that do that usually just trem pick when they change their technique. So they play slow or fast, but what about all that middle tempo. It should be a more natural position for all speeds and a lot of technique. So if you're saying to work backwards, and look at your fast playing and then learn to play slow, I'd agree with you. Yes some people do make it work. EVH, Santana. But their fast picking is only on one string usually because they don't want slop. Vernon OTOH....

If you listen to his fast playing, he's in his "trem picking position" and his two hands are just not in synch. and he doesn't mute anything!!!!!!! Drives me nuts. It's the same way he played back in Living Color. he'll sound clean if he stays on one string, but he can't pick fast and do string changes. It reminds me of when we first tried and play fast and just go for it. The notes come out and the non guitar players think your fast, but nothing was clean.

[matte]

to answer the op's ?
offer yourself up to constant musical challenges.
transcribe.
learn music that wasn't written for guitar.
avoid an idiomatic (lays well under the fingers) approach to the instrument.
study with someone who doesn't play guitar. maybe a pianist.

if you want more info, pm me.

[comealongway]

ecchhh...I don't recommend doing that at all. Because players that do that usually just trem pick when they change their technique. So they play slow or fast, but what about all that middle tempo. It should be a more natural position for all speeds and a lot of technique. So if you're saying to work backwards, and look at your fast playing and then learn to play slow, I'd agree with you. Yes some people do make it work. EVH, Santana. But their fast picking is only on one string usually because they don't want slop. Vernon OTOH....

If you listen to his fast playing, he's in his "trem picking position" and his two hands are just not in synch. and he doesn't mute anything!!!!!!! Drives me nuts. It's the same way he played back in Living Color. he'll sound clean if he stays on one string, but he can't pick fast and do string changes. It reminds me of when we first tried and play fast and just go for it. The notes come out and the non guitar players think your fast, but nothing was clean.

For the OP, I'd find the type of player you enjoy listening to and see how they do it. Every hand pick position offers up pros and cons. I like a lot of styles hybrid, chicken pick, circle pick, as well as typical alternate and sweep things, so I kinda thought it through and looked at players who were able to do all that stuff and use a similar position and movements. It really works too. The pick hand position is sooo critical for good exectution and muting.

Yes. Exactly right. Reid is the last player to go to for technique. He is horribly sloppy and he has a terrible sound - everybody knows that, its well-known. I cannot understand how somebody would recommend him as an example of good techniqur in this thread. ???????

[matte]

big star?
easy target.
where can i hear/see the fruits of your labour?
vernon has the techniqur to express himself musically.

Yes. Exactly right. Reid is the last player to go to for technique. He is horribly sloppy and he has a terrible sound - everybody knows that, its well-known. I cannot understand how somebody would recommend him as an example of good techniqur in this thread. ???????

[comealongway]

big star?
easy target.
where can i hear/see the fruits of your labour?
vernon has the techniqur to express himself musically.



No he doesn't. He is expressing something- anybody can express anything, nothing earthshaking about that - but it certainly isnt very musical.

[matte]

please define musical.
No he doesn't. He is expressing something- anybody can express anything, nothing earthshaking about that - but it certainly isnt very musical.

[jazzandmetal?]

Page 2 and nobody has mentioned to get a metronome?

Hey Matte....how's that album coming along?:wave

[comealongway]

please define musical.

If you have to ask, you clearly don't know, and me explaining it to you won't help anyway.
Peace, and out.

[matte]

hey j&m,

coming out in spring 2012 on trey gunn's label.

me and marco minnemann with drive bys by tony levin, doctor know, david torn, trey gunn, pat mastelotto, mary pastorius, etc. mixed @ applehead with the production team who did the big (as well as the new) coheed cambria joints. mastered by sonic don chris athens.

genre?

muttcore.

also, metronome.

good call.
Page 2 and nobody has mentioned to get a metronome?

Hey Matte....how's that album coming along?:wave

[matte]

i was asking what it means to you and not what you think it means to me (or anyone else for that matter).
:)If you have to ask, you clearly don't know, and me explaining it to you won't help anyway.
Peace, and out.

[dhdfoster]

big star?
easy target.
where can i hear/see the fruits of your labour?
vernon has the techniqur to express himself musically.



I think the point was if you are looking for ways to improve your technique(see thread title) VR is not the best example. His fast picking "technique" is something that a lot of teen shredders stumble upon early on and then usually cast aside.

[esptiger]

For something to be played fast. It must be played slow, perfectly. Train your muscle memory using a metronome. Don't waste time transcribing it only helps your ear (which isn't a bad thing) but if your looking to build straight up chops get the muscle memory going!!!!!

[GovernorSilver]

Don't waste time transcribing

This must be in response to matte's advice to transcribe, amongst other things.

Sorry man, but I've heard matte play - if he advises something, it probably works.

[matte]

transcribing any of this would be brilliant.

nicky skopelitis told me that steve vai transcribed l shankar's "who's to know" in it's entirety and committed it to memory on guitar.
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This must be in response to matte's advice to transcribe, amongst other things.

Sorry man, but I've heard matte play - if he advises something, it probably works.

[ivers]

Considering that most run into a speed bump when crossing from one string to an adjacent one, something which an entire new technique basically was meant to adress, ie sweep picking, the logical thing in order to improve at alternate picking would be to do more work on this exact motion.

I banned myself totally from sweeping for several years in order to improve this, and almost everything I practiced for alternate picking was designed to work on crossing between string, so there was very little chromatic 1234-1234-etc, or three notes per string patterns.

Now, I also think the fretting hand plays an important part in alternate picking, but that's perhaps a discussion in itself. The short version is that I had to change from a technique where I had several fingers on the board at one time, to a technique with one finger one the board, pretty much always when doing single note runs. This change was in order to get the articulation I was searching for.

[wrathfuldeity]

Perhaps...out on a limb...but: Do a bit of everything...kind of a chaos or kitchen sink approach.

Ime, recently have been doing this and quite suprised and pleased at the results. I've spent along time (years) doing alternate picking of scale forms while listening to music. However recently been doing them in all manner of fingerings, skipping strings and positions, doing only up strokes, only down strokes, doing them slow with different attack, lightly as possible, fast as possible, inside picking, outside picking, throwing in hammers and pull offs, bends, tremolo, trills and etc. I have not been using a metronome but try to play in time and key to all sorts of different kinds of music...blues, bluegrass, sax jazz, classical, indian, latin, and etc.

To my way of thinking,...is by noting, experiencing and being mindfully attentive to differences, you can fine tune your hand coordination, technique and agility in a more real time/situation/on the fly. To which my over all goal is to beable to hear/listen and improvise. Also an unintended insight is that I am now beginning to get the feel for the link between breathing and phrasing; and singing the melody in my head and have it kind of be on my finger tips. Anyway my speed, accuracy and tone/articulation has definitely improved.

But take this all with a big grain of salt...cause I'm a self taught hack.

[FatJeff]

For something to be played fast. It must be played slow, perfectly. Train your muscle memory using a metronome. Don't waste time transcribing it only helps your ear (which isn't a bad thing) but if your looking to build straight up chops get the muscle memory going!!!!!

I agree with this except for the part about not transcribing.

[FatJeff]

Perhaps...out on a limb...but: Do a bit of everything...kind of a chaos or kitchen sink approach.

Funny, I was just reading an article yesterday on something very similar: http://jazzadvice.com/the-myth-of-the-linear-path/

[buddastrat]

you never hesitate to denigrate established players.





i've known vernon for nearly 30 years and my personal experience directly contradicts this reductionist assessment.


Ha, Yngwie's about my biggest influence as far as style and technique. Still he does what I say. No biggie. Everyone pretty much does to an extent.

As for Vernon, my ears tell me different and it's just how I hear it, and expressing an opinion on it. He may be musical to some, but he's the last person I'd expect to be listed in an "help me improve accuracy" thread. C'mon!

And last, it's just guitar. Don't be so touchy.

[matte]

Ha, Yngwie's about my biggest influence as far as style and technique. Still he does what I say. No biggie.

how long have you been controlling("he does what I say") yngwie? also, how did this become "about you"(Yngwie's about my biggest influence as far as style and technique)?

As for Vernon, my ears tell me different and it's just how I hear it, and expressing an opinion on it. He may be musical to some, but he's the last person I'd expect to be listed in an "help me improve accuracy" thread. C'mon!

your ears? let's hear what you do with these ears. post some music. you are so quick to judge established players and yet i can't find a note of your playing anywhere on the net.

And last, it's just guitar. Don't be so touchy.

please don't feel compelled to assign an emotional component to my "letters on a screen". i simply would like to hear you play. can you make that happen?

here's the context (http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Uber_MattH2.mp3) for my suggestions regarding picking accuracy. no reverb, no delay. bone dry.

let's hear yours.

[KRosser]

Yes. Exactly right. Reid is the last player to go to for technique. He is horribly sloppy and he has a terrible sound - everybody knows that, its well-known. I cannot understand how somebody would recommend him as an example of good techniqur in this thread. ???????

I would rather listen to Vernon Reid all day than listen to Guthrie Govan for ten minutes.

No personal disrespect intended toward either by that statement.

[matte]

but what about techniqur? aren't we talking about developing techniqur?
I would rather listen to Vernon Reid all day than listen to Guthrie Govan for ten minutes.

No personal disrespect intended toward either by that statement.

[russ6100]

I would rather listen to Vernon Reid all day than listen to Guthrie Govan for ten minutes.

No personal disrespect intended toward either by that statement.

I'd rather listen to any guy named 'Marc' with a French last name all day than either one of 'em. :rimshot

[matte]

http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/images/artists/marc-ducret.jpg
?
!
I'd rather listen to any guy named 'Marc' with a French last name all day than either one of 'em. :rimshot

[KRosser]

but what about techniqur? aren't we talking about developing techniqur?

If you develop techniqur there's a topical ointment that can treat it

[trap]

Pros and cons. I studied with a pianist and I always felt as if I had to go back and learn the guitar-istic stuff from other players, and now youtube!!! Thank God for youtube! perhaps a good guitar teacher could have saved me a lot of trouble with the basic technique info. But the different perspective of the piano helped in other ways.
As for the picking, It's much different picking 64th notes at a slower tempo than 1/8 notes at a fairly up tempo. I tend to pick less with the latter.

to answer the op's ?
offer yourself up to constant musical challenges.
transcribe.
learn music that wasn't written for guitar.
avoid an idiomatic (lays well under the fingers) approach to the instrument.
study with someone who doesn't play guitar. maybe a pianist.

if you want more info, pm me.

[KRosser]

I'd rather listen to any guy named 'Marc' with a French last name all day than either one of 'em. :rimshot

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/krosser414/images.jpg

[Mondoslug]

Man, I've never hung much in this part of the Forum before.
This is a pretty rough neighborhood.

[ivers]

Another thing to consider is that you don't necessarily have to move the pick in a fixed tempo, when playing the same bpm and subdivisions.

A common way of picking is to start the motion above the string, then move though the string, then continue below, turning, and connecting with the string for the next note in the phrase. This is all a continuous motion, like the pendulum of a metronome. This is all well and good, nothing wrong with it.

However, to give a few more options, try to hit the note quickly, dead stop, then hit the note quickly the other way, then dead stop again. This gives another type of attack, very quick and aggressive.

For longer, smoother notes, I play with a slower attack. The left hand also is used to control note length.

I play with alternating rest strokes, btw, which perhaps is a bit unusual. Anyway, the idea is to touch the string to dampen it, then apply pressure until string yields and sounds. This can be compared to flamenco technique, apoyando.

This way of picking has arised as a necessity out of my needs regarding sound and attack, and other people have entirely different needs, so it wouldn't suit them at all.

[buddastrat]

how long have you been controlling("he does what I say") yngwie? also, how did this become "about you"(Yngwie's about my biggest influence as far as style and technique)?



your ears? let's hear what you do with these ears. post some music. you are so quick to judge established players and yet i can't find a note of your playing anywhere on the net.



please don't feel compelled to assign an emotional component to my "letters on a screen". i simply would like to hear you play. can you make that happen?

here's the context (http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Uber_MattH2.mp3) for my suggestions regarding picking accuracy. no reverb, no delay. bone dry.

let's hear yours.


"he does what I said" is in reference to stringing practiced licks together. Keep up, man!

Sorry don't have to cater to your requirements. I have clips of Xmas tunes, a little classical style song written for my daughter, and have video from old bands on VHS. I don't really practice that sort've thing anymore, as it's so over done, and definitely don't sit around making clips trying to show off. I actually hate the idea of that. I just don't care about it. Even if someone doesn't play at all, they can still have an opinion on all of it anyhow. This is all subjective, my opinion rubs you wrong, but I stand by what I said, about VR not really being a great example for this topic.

[matte]

my suggestion presumes a certain level of competence on the instrument. i studied with the late lionel nowak while i was working on my mfa. he put me with (among other pieces):

paganini-the caprices
bach- solo violin partitas
cramer-piano etudes
wagner-english horn solo/tristan and isolde
chopin-etudes
debussy-doctor gradus ad parnassum
stravinsky-clarinet solos
berg-cadenza from violin concerto

anything that demands musical attention.



Pros and cons. I studied with a pianist and I always felt as if I had to go back and learn the guitar-istic stuff from other players, and now youtube!!! Thank God for youtube! perhaps a good guitar teacher could have saved me a lot of trouble with the basic technique info. But the different perspective of the piano helped in other ways.
As for the picking, It's much different picking 64th notes at a slower tempo than 1/8 notes at a fairly up tempo. I tend to pick less with the latter.

[Tone Loco]

Man, I've never hung much in this part of the Forum before.
This is a pretty rough neighborhood.
Takes a lot of grit to improve your picking technique. No sissies allowed around here!

[matte]

trying to show off? how about simply part of a body of work that address certain musical issues?

trane could play a lot of notes, he also played ballads. rais khan has tremendous facility for speed. he also can play beautiful slow nuanced lines.

both/and.

this thread is about developing accuracy and speed, hence the suggestions.

and definitely don't sit around making clips trying to show off.

[GovernorSilver]

Man, I've never hung much in this part of the Forum before.
This is a pretty rough neighborhood.

Not as rough as Sound Hound Lounge, where folks are prone to reacting to any criticism of video, sound file, etc. as if you insulted his mother.

[ivers]

bach- solo violin partitas


Those are great, Bach really encourages to improve the technique and sound. If you play in a lazy, unarticulated way, where every note doesn't shine like a gem, it just sounds so un-Bach that it hurts.

[matte]

bach was the master of compound melody and modulation. the fugue movement from sonata no. 1 in g minor, bmv 1001 is a thing of great beauty and a bear to play on guitar. i played it @ my mfa recital. 5MnlnQ3PZ8AFY7jTdLxk8Q Those are great, Bach really encourages to improve the technique and sound. If you play in a lazy, unarticulated way, where every note doesn't shine like a gem, it just sounds so un-Bach that it hurts.

[Mondoslug]

the fugue movement from sonata no. 1 in g minor, bmv 1001 is a thing of great beauty and a bear to play on guitar. i played it @ my mfa recital.

Nice! On nylon strings or steel?

[matte]

steel. i ran by some right hand questions with a local classical guitarist named edward flower. (http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/artist/Edward+Flower/a/albums.htm)Nice! On nylon strings or steel?

[dsimon665]

some cool picking stuff I can think of is the tremolo picking exercise from Jody Fisher's 30-day book and also the chopbuilder DVD from Gambale. Even though Frank is known for sweeps that DVD has a ton of alt. picking in it.

this is the tremolo exercise (2min per string):
http://books.google.com/books?id=opSjSnGuPVMC&lpg=PA13&ots=Itj-coEJ3v&dq=jody%20fisher%20tremolo&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false

My picking accuracy started to improve after I practiced the Steve Morse picking exercise for a few weeks:

http://www.stevemorse.info/tab/personal.jpg


I haven't tried that but Steve Morse is definitely a great picker. So good at alt. picking.


like was said earlier it partly comes down to checking out players that you admire.

[dsimon665]

bach was the master of compound melody and modulation. the fugue movement from sonata no. 1 in g minor, bmv 1001 is a thing of great beauty and a bear to play on guitar.

I love Bach's WTC ... I can imagine any of his fugues would be hard to play on guitar!

[GovernorSilver]

I haven't tried that but Steve Morse is definitely a great picker. So good at alt. picking.


Yeah, his picking exercise was my gateway drug to tackling even better sounding classical pieces. That Jody Fisher tremolo picking exercise you posted is very close to how I warm up for pick-style playing, except I don't go for 2 min. per string.

It was Matte who turned me on to Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonatas_and_partitas_for_solo_violin_(Bach)

What Matte posted were performances of BWV 1001 (Sonata #1 in G Minor), which are not easy to play on guitar, but are even more of a pain on violin.

The piece I've been working on is BWV 1006 (Partita #3 in E Major), which is the 6th piece in that collection. I was playing the first 20 measures a certain way but just switched up my fingering and am happier with the result. Chris Thile's performance (which was posted here by someone else) inspired me to take it on:

hSZ40V0teGM

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that one shouldn't forget about tone. I do find if I'm working on a nice piece of music like this, I'm motivated to make it sound good, not just get the notes right, so the tone issue takes care of itself.

[buddastrat]

hSZ40V0teGM

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that one shouldn't forget about tone. I do find if I'm working on a nice piece of music like this, I'm motivated to make it sound good, not just get the notes right, so the tone issue takes care of itself.

I remember this one, you posted awhile back. It is amazing how he plays it,. his style. I worked on part of that for awhile doing an arrangement of it. But I just don't have time and patience to keep it going, I end up getting a good way through, and then kinda improvise around some of the ideas. It's so long, I can never finish it. Then you post it up again and I want to work on it again, and the cycle starts over, lol. It's such an awesome tune. I recently picked up a mandolin, it's crazy to play. That dude is a monster.

[GovernorSilver]

I remember this one, you posted awhile back. It is amazing how he plays it,. his style. I worked on part of that for awhile doing an arrangement of it. But I just don't have time and patience to keep it going, I end up getting a good way through, and then kinda improvise around some of the ideas. It's so long, I can never finish it. Then you post it up again and I want to work on it again, and the cycle starts over, lol. It's such an awesome tune. I recently picked up a mandolin, it's crazy to play. That dude is a monster.

I just keep chipping away at BWV 1006, little by little. I've taken long breaks from playing it, admittedly, because I had to prep for a viola gig, was obsessed with some fingerstyle piece, or was messing around with synth programming. I guess I could try that idea FatJeff posted in the "How do you guys learn a classical piece?" thread, of starting on the final measure of the prelude to this piece instead of the first, and working backwards, or perhaps some of the other ideas posted in that classical guitar page that he linked.

The Chris Thile vid was originally posted by someone else in response to a question about Eric Johnson's bounce technique. In another, related video, Thile says that his epiphany was learning that a lot of bluegrass players learn and practice Bach pieces. There are more recently uploaded Youtube vids of Thile playing the Presto movement from BWV 1001 and the Gigue movement from BWV 1004.

[TommiK]

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that one shouldn't forget about tone. I do find if I'm working on a nice piece of music like this, I'm motivated to make it sound good, not just get the notes right, so the tone issue takes care of itself.

One of the great things about working on pieces like the E major Partita is that there's so many ways to finger it, especially when you're sightreading it, that besides learning a beautiful piece of music, you really end up knowing the neck a lot better too.

I too, have been working on the Bach Partitas on-off for some time now, and I think I've changed fingerings on every single one I've practised several times. Some of them definitely sound a lot better than others, it's been a valuable lesson.

[Jon]

I'm not trying to be blindingly fast but I need to improve. Any tips on how to practice, pick angle, wrist movement, anything, would be appreciated.

There's a ton of info already been given - IMO part of the issue is translating technical exercises into actual music (some have already mentioned this) One thing which I find useful is, instead of practicing exercises to a metronome, work with an actual backing track in something like Band In A Box where you can tailor the chords and tempo to your liking. Try to isolate the specific technical issue e.g. crossing strings, and then create your own lick which addresses that problem - try to make it sound like a musical lick that you can get into and out of in the flow of your improvisation. If you keep doing this you will find it easier to actually use the speed and technique you are developing to make actual music rather than it standing out as a technical element which doesn't really fit within the rest of the music.

[AndyNOLA]

6 hours a day x 6 months will do it. :)

[GovernorSilver]

One of the great things about working on pieces like the E major Partita is that there's so many ways to finger it, especially when you're sightreading it, that besides learning a beautiful piece of music, you really end up knowing the neck a lot better too.

I too, have been working on the Bach Partitas on-off for some time now, and I think I've changed fingerings on every single one I've practised several times. Some of them definitely sound a lot better than others, it's been a valuable lesson.

This is why I swore off using tab to learn classical pieces. I'm not above using tab to learn someone's fingerstyle arrangement or some type of exercise, but I draw the line with classical music.

[Jon]

There's a ton of info already been given - IMO part of the issue is translating technical exercises into actual music (some have already mentioned this) One thing which I find useful is, instead of practicing exercises to a metronome, work with an actual backing track in something like Band In A Box where you can tailor the chords and tempo to your liking. Try to isolate the specific technical issue e.g. crossing strings, and then create your own lick which addresses that problem - try to make it sound like a musical lick that you can get into and out of in the flow of your improvisation. If you keep doing this you will find it easier to actually use the speed and technique you are developing to make actual music rather than it standing out as a technical element which doesn't really fit within the rest of the music.

You also need to examine exactly what goes wrong in your playing when you try to play too fast and make mistakes - what are those mistakes? Finger placement on the fretboard not accurate? Lack of co-ordination between left & right hand? etc.

You should spend a good proportion of your time trying to play perfectly - so slow down your playing until you can play perfectly, but keep in mind what goes wrong when you try to play too fast and focus on making that perfect at your slow speed.

[bluesman]

I wonder if there will come a day when a thread can be more than a page long without people sniping at each other. Relax people.

There's a lot of great advice here. Thanks for the tips, everyone.

[Tomo]

I'm not trying to be blindingly fast but I need to improve. Any tips on how to practice, pick angle, wrist movement, anything, would be appreciated.

Many things are important to CONTROL this (both hand's timing). Please use an amp, turn up a bit louder. More treble than bass, no reverb. Please record your playing/performances often as you can. Practice things slower than you would like to do. Free your left hand thumb as much as you can. Work on your picking control (not just play notes...) try to get less picking noises. Watch out both hands timing. Slow as you can, then challenge a bit faster than you can...then record yourself...think about your tone, touch, timing, feel etc. Then practice really really insane slower that you ever played before. Try to be patient. Don't expect too fast. Read this and write them out with your own words and try to understand these by sound etc. If you make a lot of efforts, you may reach your goals.

Tomo

[Dave Orban]

Tomo rocks!

[bluesman]

Many things are important to CONTROL this (both hand's timing). Please use an amp, turn up a bit louder. More treble than bass, no reverb. Please record your playing/performances often as you can. Practice things slower than you would like to do. Free your left hand thumb as much as you can. Work on your picking control (not just play notes...) try to get less picking noises. Watch out both hands timing. Slow as you can, then challenge a bit faster than you can...then record yourself...think about your tone, touch, timing, feel etc. Then practice really really insane slower that you ever played before. Try to be patient. Don't expect too fast. Read this and write them out with your own words and try to understand these by sound etc. If you make a lot of efforts, you may reach your goals.

Tomo

Thanks for the tips, Tomo. I'm curious, why more treble than bass and no reverb?

[Dave Orban]

So you can hear distinctly what's going on.

[guitarjazz]

I love Bach's WTC ... I can imagine any of his fugues would be hard to play on guitar!

There is a book of solo guitar versions of the TwoPart Inventions that will put hair on your chest but might not make you play faster.

[Tomo]

Thanks for the tips, Tomo. I'm curious, why more treble than bass and no reverb?

You're welcome. This is one of ideas. This way you can hear all noises etc first and all details so that you can really focus on control then you can enjoy your performance more. Similar to other things. I really suggest no reverb for practice in general, listen old records from 50s, early 60s, they didn't have reverb on amps so they can hear nuances, rhythm better? this is just suggestion so whatever you choose is fine. Sometime you can use reverb so you can hear your dynamics touch etc. Is that help?

Tomo

[bluesman]

You're welcome. This is one of ideas. This way you can hear all noises etc first and all details so that you can really focus on control then you can enjoy your performance more. Similar to other things. I really suggest no reverb for practice in general, listen old records from 50s, early 60s, they didn't have reverb on amps so they can hear nuances, rhythm better? this is just suggestion so whatever you choose is fine. Sometime you can use reverb so you can hear your dynamics touch etc. Is that help?

Tomo

That's very helpful. Thanks again.

[p.j.]

i had great success using the Stylus Pick, it took a good 2 months until i saw improvement but it was well worth it.

http://www.styluspick.com/

Do you use it all the time or just when practicing?

PJ

[p.j.]

I would rather listen to Vernon Reid all day than listen to Guthrie Govan for ten minutes.

No personal disrespect intended toward either by that statement.

Not really up on my Guthrie but I've liked Vernon since he was in Ronald Shannon's Decoding Society when I was in college. I love his duet cd w/ Bill Frisell also. He is very musical to my ears.

PJ

[Tomo]

Tomo rocks!

Thanks Dave.

Tomo

[dazco]

Another thing you might try that i have found can sometimes be surprising is close your eyes when you play. Somehow it seems like watching your fingers can be confusing and when you only go by feel it seems to allow your mind to get used to the feel of what your are doing which is what you are after in the first place right? When you watch it seems to confuse things by adding the visual. Works for me anyways.

[mojazzmo]

I have just started trying to improve my picking and i have noticed a couple of things that may help you.

1. Tension will slow you down and may even cause long term injury. Guthrie mentions in a video that you should believe what you are doing isn't difficult, tell yourself that, to try and relax as you play. Look for tension and try to ease up/slow down when you spot it.

2. Minimize motion. The pick should move the bare minimum to play the notes. Large motions will make it tougher to get up in speed.

3. Look for areas in your technique that are hindering you. For instance, i have always anchored my pinky to the body/pickguard. I noticed that this is causing tension in my wrist and bending it unnaturally as i play. I have just begun playing more ala Paul Gilberts hand positioning and my hand moves much easier/looser. I don't FEEL as if i have as much control yet, but i have more speed and accuracy (if that makes sense)

4. The goal (in my opinion) is that whatever you play should feel and be completely natural to you. It shouldn't feel like hard work or that you have to fight the instrument. The only way to do that is repetition. Slowly over time it just gets easier and easier but you have to put in the time/effort.


Two books i recommend -

http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Discipline-CD-John-Petrucci/dp/1576234746/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330321164&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Mechanics-Lead-Guitar-Stetina/dp/0793509629/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330321209&sr=1-1

Some good videos below on picking, good luck!!


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Hmmmmmm.........Interesting schools of thought. I watched the second Guthrie video and here are a few of my thoughts.


I use a small 2mm dunlop jazz pick with the pointy end but modify them to take the point off and round the tip to get the same effect Metheny and Robben Ford use by using the wrong end of a standard pick. I just like the feel and the tone way more. For me, which is totally personal, I can control the dynamics alot easier as well.
My college jazz gtr teacher had great chops with alternate picking and legato playing and he pretty much exclusively used circular motion picking.
Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer. :)

I'm not trying to trash Guthrie as his playing, chops and musicianship speak for themselves but I found his right and wrong analogies a little heavy handed. In the end, ask yourself....how much "technique" do you need to make music? I think once you have a basic grasp of moderate technique, just learn melodies and your technique and musical repatoire will increase.

[buddastrat]

Hmmmmmm.........Interesting schools of thought. I watched the second Guthrie video and here are a few of my thoughts.


I use a small 2mm dunlop jazz pick with the pointy end but modify them to take the point off and round the tip to get the same effect Metheny and Robben Ford use by using the wrong end of a standard pick. I just like the feel and the tone way more. For me, which is totally personal, I can control the dynamics alot easier as well.
My college jazz gtr teacher had great chops with alternate picking and legato playing and he pretty much exclusively used circular motion picking.
Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer. :)

I'm not trying to trash Guthrie as his playing, chops and musicianship speak for themselves but I found his right and wrong analogies a little heavy handed. In the end, ask yourself....how much "technique" do you need to make music? I think once you have a basic grasp of moderate technique, just learn melodies and your technique and musical repatoire will increase.

Those are very good points mojazzmo. Eric Johnson was a big influence for me. Because he can do so many techniques so well, and with such amazing tone which is even more important. The pick hand is such a big part of a guitarist's sound. The way EJ uses so many strokes, brush, circle, alternate, sweep... they all yield different sounds. Much more to it, than just alternate picking 3nps scales.

[NG7]

Doesn't Eric J advocate picking at an angle, the exact opposite to what Guthrie says is wrong and will produce poor tone? His tone doesn't seem to suffer. :)


I'm not sure how you missed it, but Guthrie actually said both ways were valid immediately after demonstrating the differences.

[DakotaRed]

My tip? Videotape yourself playing. You might be surprised what you see. I did that the other night with my iPad and I had WAY more finger motion going on than I thought! Looking down on my hand, it looks like I'm playing with all wrist motion, but from viewed from the front it's a whole different story.

[djdrdave]

Great thread. Can't wait to read all the posts and watch the videos.

[vhollund]

I'm not sure how you missed it, but Guthrie actually said both ways were valid immediately after demonstrating the differences.

This is a very interesting topic because it affect the attack and the tone
When playing/raking a chord the angled pick tend to work better closer to the neck where the attack of each string becomes less noticeable
Where as at the bridge the tension is higher and a more direct forcefully rake works well

I wish I could control all the different tones and subtleties

Please post further observations to this much too neglected topic

[Ryguy]

I think picking speed and accuracy, or technique on the whole is an extremely personal thing, as evidences by the numerous different approaches by various guitarists across the style spectrum. It really has every to do with the nuances of your sound, and the unique nature of your persona l phrasing, fast or slow. Kenny Burrell for example, has really strange technique, and it is integral to his sound (like it or not). Pat Martino refers to his right hand as a "drop-out" in that he was never able to dictate to it what type of technique to apply; it just formed organically, and resisted any attempt to change it.

After years of dabbling in Jazz, I finally am starting to work up some sustained speed and accuracy for the more uptempo stuff, and all of the different nuances I leaned playing blues, rock and other styles certainly have their place, but I do find that I have to adapt my technique according to tempo. What I have come to realize however is that that adaptation (in my case) has to be organic, I simply struggle to much with a strict picking regimen to increase technique. Which obviously is not to say that such an approach doesn't work, and couldn't for me or anyone else, just not something I enjoy pursuing. I simply prefer the results of working on actual melodies and lines, and letting the technique improvement happen, than focusing on the technique alone. The end result seems exponentially more musical to me.

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

[Ribar]

Rather then opening a new topic, i thought ill post my question here. I have been working on my alternate picking for a while, i have seen improvement etc. however i have come to a show stopper and perhaps some of you shredders were in the same boat and might have a way around it.

Basically what i have noticed is at higher speeds the bottom E and A strings tend to vibrate wider and that is effecting my picking attack. So as i am picking through the bottom strings at fast speed the vibration of lower E and A strings hits my pick which causes me to not have accurate picking.

What i have found that works a little bit is if i a slightly palm mute the bottom strings this prevents the to much string vibration and helps with cleaner picking. Is this how you guys do it? Any other ways around this?

Thanks,
Ribar

[FatJeff]

I think picking speed and accuracy, or technique on the whole is an extremely personal thing, as evidences by the numerous different approaches by various guitarists across the style spectrum. It really has every to do with the nuances of your sound, and the unique nature of your persona l phrasing, fast or slow. Kenny Burrell for example, has really strange technique, and it is integral to his sound (like it or not). Pat Martino refers to his right hand as a "drop-out" in that he was never able to dictate to it what type of technique to apply; it just formed organically, and resisted any attempt to change it.

After years of dabbling in Jazz, I finally am starting to work up some sustained speed and accuracy for the more uptempo stuff, and all of the different nuances I leaned playing blues, rock and other styles certainly have their place, but I do find that I have to adapt my technique according to tempo. What I have come to realize however is that that adaptation (in my case) has to be organic, I simply struggle to much with a strict picking regimen to increase technique. Which obviously is not to say that such an approach doesn't work, and couldn't for me or anyone else, just not something I enjoy pursuing. I simply prefer the results of working on actual melodies and lines, and letting the technique improvement happen, than focusing on the technique alone. The end result seems exponentially more musical to me.

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

Excellent points, and I think I'm coming to the same conclusions myself. I tried to incorporate the whole George Benson picking thing, and it just ain't happening for me. Maybe I'm not persistent enough, but I had some fundamental problems with completely repositioning everything about my RH, and so now I find myself back to where I've always been, holding the pick fairly loosely in between thumb and forefinger, with my middle finger adding stability when needed for quicker runs. I've been drilling the Frank Gambale Chopbuilder thing for a while now, and I can see where my technique breaks down (pick gets squirrely at higher tempos). Yet I cannot get other techniques to work for me, so for now at least, I'm just focusing on playing melodically and hoping that the speed will come later.

One thing that isn't taken into account by all these "speed picking" regimens that I've seen is incorporating a swing feel into playing lines. Strict alternation may be good for building technique, but it goes out the window when you try to play a fast Clifford Brown line with any type of "horn-like" articulation. In that case, I rely more on slurs to get the correct sound, which advantageously also just about halves the speed you need in your right hand.

I was thinking about all this while on a walk today, and it occurred to me that working technical RH picking exercises for speed is good, but in reality, for my kind of music (jazz), I rarely need the kind of sustained speed required for more shred-oriented playing. I mean, sure, I'd love to be able to play as fast as Paul Gilbert, but that's not really my bag style-wise, so probably the best thing for me is to let the music I'm playing dictate my technique. I guess I would liken it to martial arts training, where you drill technique far more rigorously than you're likely to need it in the real world. Then, if and when the time comes to use it, it's there.

[bluesman]

So, to answer the OP question, MY best advice is to let the context of what you are trying to learn determine the technique, whenever possible. I found that once I started having longer more melodic lines that I didn't have to think about, and which I could string together easily, speed came along really quickly, as did an understanding of phrasing and its relation to tempo and the beat. So start with a solo you really enjoy, that is challenging for you in terms of tempo, precision, strings jumps, etc., and simply try learning it with your technique, and pushing yourself to play it faster and faster, without sacrificing the integrity of the lines. Basically instead of trying to "learn to play fast" try to learn a line, solo, or melody, that is played really fast. Your hands will catch up. It's similar to the way a child learns language, which is in a very organic, trial and error based fashion. MY two cents. Great topic as always!

I think you're right and I've started to feel this way more and more as I've studied the responses in this thread. There are so many ways to learn and improve and I'm feeling like this is the kind of approach that's going to work best for me.

[ivers]

What i have found that works a little bit is if i a slightly palm mute the bottom strings this prevents the to much string vibration and helps with cleaner picking. Is this how you guys do it? Any other ways around this?


Sure. that works, but I really like to damp the strings with the pick before I pick the new note. That sorta arised organically from trying a specific sound and attack*, and I don't really have a method for learning it, but it's at least an alternative idea to think about..

*I was inspired by piano players with a percussive, strong attack, but didn't want to achieves percussiveness the Al Di Meola Way, for most applications at least, because that strangles the sound of the string.

[Ribar]

Sure. that works, but I really like to damp the strings with the pick before I pick the new note. That sorta arised organically from trying a specific sound and attack*, and I don't really have a method for learning it, but it's at least an alternative idea to think about..

*I was inspired by piano players with a percussive, strong attack, but didn't want to achieves percussiveness the Al Di Meola Way, for most applications at least, because that strangles the sound of the string.

That interesting approach. I don't think i have tried it. So i would imagine your picking movement across the string is very small, that you are not allowing the strings to vibrate to much with the pick back and forth?

[JasonElGato]

A big x2 on RECORDING YOURSELF! And reviewing it, analyzing, critiqueing your own playing as if you were critiqueing someone else. I find it's easy to do, listening to a recording of myself, I always think it sounds a world apart from what I was hearing while playing it. Even better, record with video. Those little flip-style video recorders are a dime-a-dozen these days. Watch yourself play and learn where your weaknesses lie. Then go back and apply all the lessons the good folks offered here previously.

[Ribar]

A big x2 on RECORDING YOURSELF! And reviewing it, analyzing, critiqueing your own playing as if you were critiqueing someone else. I find it's easy to do, listening to a recording of myself, I always think it sounds a world apart from what I was hearing while playing it. Even better, record with video. Those little flip-style video recorders are a dime-a-dozen these days. Watch yourself play and learn where your weaknesses lie. Then go back and apply all the lessons the good folks offered here previously.

Agreed, i dont do it as much as i should when i practice. But occasionally i would record myself and i can hear the improvement and where i need to focus on.

In the market now to buy one of those portable recorders so i can record my practice session easier.