New DT25 today. I have a couple questions

[BigGee]

I scooted out of work early waiting for the truck to arrive....set up my guitar in my living room and waited. The carton was shipped ABF truck. I've never received a better looking package, even the carton was clean.

Anyway. I fired it up & used some to the settings on the card on top. Thought it sounded pretty good. The first two settings I tried were the P75 & the Fender. The Park was quite loud for the 25w amp & I was very happy, as I should easily be able to gig this, then switched back to the Fender at a higher volume on the master, & it doesn't stay clean enough for me. I backed the gain down from three or four to two, it cleaned up some, but still had a small amount of grit. The biggest problem was the difference in volume on the clean setting. To keep it clean, it's no where loud enough. When it's used with the HD500, does the mixer adjust volume like when I run FRFR?

Also wonder what happens to the HD500 cab & mic modeling on the DT25 DI output.

Thanks

[clintmartin]

If your using line6link (a dmx cable will be better than xlr) I would use preamp only on the hd500. On the line out there is speaker simulation...and it sounds great. I have a DT50 so I can't answer your other questions but, If you will try a clean amp such as the tweed, Park 75 or Marshall jtm, they will be topology II class A/B . I have always been a Twin guy but my clean patch uses the Park75.

[Axe-Man]

I found that on about 4 (gain) and volume at half and master at half (roughly), the clean was pretty loud and still pretty clean when using say the out of phase setting on a strat with low output single coils.

It wasn't quiet by any means but it wasn't as loud (or full) as my 40w Bogner. Not bad though for two EL84's (which only put out 15 watts though they 'can' push out 25 watts with the cap during transients but not continuously - so it's 15 watts IMHO).

I myself moved to the EL34 powered DT50 (which really does put out 50watts) for that reason alone...to get more headroom...an it does deliver louder cleans.

Using the HD you can tweak the mixer but it's essentially just like driving the ch volume harder and has the same result I found.

If you for example push the master to full, you can only run the ch volume on the DT to say 1/3 before it distorts.

[Gasp100]

So is it easy to setup the HD to force the DT to use different topologies, even in this case to keep the character of the amp (Fender) cleaner, louder? Or are you forced to actually start with a different type of amp (Park75) to build your cleans to make sure they stay cleaner longer?
I guess I'm confused about using "preamp only" setups on the HD into the DT, I figured it would be doing that automatically?

[Axe-Man]

So is it easy to setup the HD to force the DT to use different topologies, even in this case to keep the character of the amp (Fender) cleaner, louder? Or are you forced to actually start with a different type of amp (Park75) to build your cleans to make sure they stay cleaner longer?
I guess I'm confused about using "preamp only" setups on the HD into the DT, I figured it would be doing that automatically?

Hey Greg. You can adjust the 4 topologies on the DT when your not using L6link though you are then locked in with what the amp uses for these sounds.

i.e. Vox AC30 is Top III but whilst it will select Class A and Pentode, you can adjust these two settings...just not the negative feedback.

If you have a HD plugged in and use the Park sim for example (Class A/B, Pentode, Top II) you can set via the HD the Top to say IV (you are just changing the negative feedback and not actually moving to the Mesa sim) and then when you save the patch, it'll always load Top IV.

You have to select the type of sim on the POD (preamp only for example) but you can naturally then adjust topologies and class to get a more clean sound but the limitations of the wattage will always raise it's head if you need louder cleans.

I didn't personally find the Park cleans louder than the Fenders...it was just the power section that limited the clean volume IMHO.

[Titi1506]

The HD doesn't switch automatically to preamp model, even with L6 Link. You have to choose the preamp model by yourself on the HD.

About the Cab and Mic simulations. Even with the preamp model, there's a Cab and Mic simulation. Line6 calls it "Live Cab Simulation". There's no documentation about this. My tests revealed that the DT seems to use the stock simulation (Cab + Mic) that comes with the amp model on the HD. If you make and A/B comparison with the DT25 only and the HD + DT equivalent configuration you'll get the perfect match if you keep the Cab + Mic simulation active on the HD. If you switch it off on the HD, you'll clearly hear a difference.

The Direct Out seems to use its own speaker simulation, independent from the HD settings.

[Gasp100]

I'm so confused... I guess I don't understand the idea of "topology". So it's not the entire thing, it's one portion of the things that change.
You have amp simulations or types 1-2-3-4
Then you have the topology (basically how the NFL is setup?)
Then you have Triode/Pentode?
Is that correct?
I guess what I'm asking here is if EVERYTHING can be controlled via the HD, saved on the HD, and switched on the HD without having to touch the DT25 controls at all, ever? And if so I assume HD300 and above can do all of this?
One thing I have noticed in verbiage about firmware 2.0 for the HD is that they same to be VERY careful to mention new firmware for the Variax AND HD500... NO mention of the other HD units. Is this because the main announcement was made kind of tying the Variax and HD500 together (because the HD500 is the only to natively support Variax?)
I want to know if HD300 will also get firmware 2.0.

[BRUNO]

I'm so confused... I guess I don't understand the idea of "topology". So it's not the entire thing, it's one portion of the things that change.
You have amp simulations or types 1-2-3-4
Then you have the topology (basically how the NFL is setup?)
Then you have Triode/Pentode?
Is that correct?
I guess what I'm asking here is if EVERYTHING can be controlled via the HD, saved on the HD, and switched on the HD without having to touch the DT25 controls at all, ever? And if so I assume HD300 and above can do all of this?
One thing I have noticed in verbiage about firmware 2.0 for the HD is that they same to be VERY careful to mention new firmware for the Variax AND HD500... NO mention of the other HD units. Is this because the main announcement was made kind of tying the Variax and HD500 together (because the HD500 is the only to natively support Variax?)
I want to know if HD300 will also get firmware 2.0.

Everything can be saved and recalled...but you need to first manually select your topology,Class,pentode/triode on the DT 25, then save on the POD ..you will then be able to recall everything from the POD ..there is no way to change those things from the POD itself
all amps controls like G,B,M,T,P can be adjusted either from POD or the DT25 BTW..saving is done on the POD again

[Gasp100]

Everything can be saved and recalled...but you need to first manually select your topology,Class,pentode/triode on the DT 25, then save on the POD ..you will then be able to recall everything from the POD ..there is no way to change those things from the POD itself
all amps controls like G,B,M,T,P can be adjusted either from POD or the DT25 BTW..saving is done on the POD again

I see. So initial setup is going to be done on the DT (or both).
I will have the DT first so I should be able to take the time to learn it in depth before trying to add an HD to the mix.
Is setting the amps to "preamp" on the HD a recommendation or is that just how it is done?
I'm asking because I guess this would mean if I want to record (sans DT) and just use the HD I would have 2 sets of patches: Set one is preamp only, my full configuration and possibly additional manual tweaks done to the DT topology and then saved with my rig in HD. The second set would be completely different, full amp configuration. Although, the weak point in the HD is the cabs/mics from what I remember.
Anyone do indepth testing of HD preamps tied with Red Wirez or similar in a DAW?

[hanales]

Everything can be saved and recalled...but you need to first manually select your topology,Class,pentode/triode on the DT 25, then save on the POD ..you will then be able to recall everything from the POD ..there is no way to change those things from the POD itself
all amps controls like G,B,M,T,P can be adjusted either from POD or the DT25 BTW..saving is done on the POD again

Now I thought you could set the topology/class and pentode/triode in HDEdit, because there is a setting for it, correct? Meaning you could configure it all ahead of time, dump it into the pod and then control the DT without touching it (except the master).

[csseemat]

You can set those values within HDEdit, but I don't believe you can if you just had the POD.

[meambobbo]

if you have just the DT-XX, topology 1,2,3,4 trigger the pre-amp model used, as well as control the negative feedback in the amp. i'm not 100% sure, but 1 is the Fender twin reverb, 2 is a Vox AC-30, 3 is a Park 75, and 4 is the Mesa Dual Rectifier.

you can set class (a/ab) and pentode/triode to whatever you want, which will change the power amp tone, but not change the pre-amp model being used.

if you additionally have the pod hooked up via L6 link, you can set the pre-amp model being used, class, topology, and pentode/triode per patch in the pod. These will override the switch settings on the DT-XX. So topology, which controls negative feedback, isn't confined to any particular amp models.

the pod has something called live-voiced cabs, which are used when you select a cab model in the pod whenever it is not in "studio/direct" output mode. The mic selection has no impact on the tone. live-voiced cabs mildly EQ the tone to make whatever real cab you are using sound more like the cab model you selected. Consider it tonal coloration, not true cab simulation. In studio/direct mode, it uses true cab/mic simulation, which has a much stronger effect on the tone.

as mentioned above, the dt-XX when used without the pod hd seems to use live-voiced cabs, selecting the one that matches the pre-amp model selected (via the topology switch). when using the pod hd, to get the same tone, you'd have to select the default cab in the pod hd. however, you have the option to select other cabs, including "no cab".

the direct output is a speaker/cabinet simulator. it has one setting built in to its design. it is placed in the chain after the power section. so the live-voiced cab feature is already in the tone by the time this is used. it should sound very similar to the tone from the DT-XX's actual speaker(s).

to go one step further, the DT-XX has a low volume mode. This uses power amp modeling to model a pushed power section. As you turn up the volume and actually push the tubes, it reduces the amount of modeling simulated. It's designed to always sound like you're pushing the power section no matter what volume you are actually playing at.

so if you want to think about the entire signal chain its:
1) pre-amp modeling (selected on Pod or via topology switch w/o Pod)
2) live-voiced cab (selected on Pod or via topology switch w/o Pod)
3) power-amp modeling (if in low volume mode)
4) actual power amp (using the class, topology, pentode/triode settings chosen in Pod, if no Pod then using the DT-XX manual switches)
5a) speaker simulation and lower power direct output
5b) high power speaker output

Here's another interesting feature. The Pod implements additional power amp simulation parameters for the "full" amp models (Sag, Hum, Bias, Bias X), which you can't edit in the DT-XX. You could use these when you are playing at really low volumes instead of choosing low-volume mode on the DT-XX. This would give you additional control over the power amp tone.

[Gasp100]

if you have just the DT-XX, topology 1,2,3,4 trigger the pre-amp model used, as well as control the negative feedback in the amp. i'm not 100% sure, but 1 is the Fender twin reverb, 2 is a Vox AC-30, 3 is a Park 75, and 4 is the Mesa Dual Rectifier.

you can set class (a/ab) and pentode/triode to whatever you want, which will change the power amp tone, but not change the pre-amp model being used.

if you additionally have the pod hooked up via L6 link, you can set the pre-amp model being used, class, topology, and pentode/triode per patch in the pod. These will override the switch settings on the DT-XX. So topology, which controls negative feedback, isn't confined to any particular amp models.

the pod has something called live-voiced cabs, which are used when you select a cab model in the pod whenever it is not in "studio/direct" output mode. The mic selection has no impact on the tone. live-voiced cabs mildly EQ the tone to make whatever real cab you are using sound more like the cab model you selected. Consider it tonal coloration, not true cab simulation. In studio/direct mode, it uses true cab/mic simulation, which has a much stronger effect on the tone.

as mentioned above, the dt-XX when used without the pod hd seems to use live-voiced cabs, selecting the one that matches the pre-amp model selected (via the topology switch). when using the pod hd, to get the same tone, you'd have to select the default cab in the pod hd. however, you have the option to select other cabs, including "no cab".

the direct output is a speaker/cabinet simulator. it has one setting built in to its design. it is placed in the chain after the power section. so the live-voiced cab feature is already in the tone by the time this is used. it should sound very similar to the tone from the DT-XX's actual speaker(s).

to go one step further, the DT-XX has a low volume mode. This uses power amp modeling to model a pushed power section. As you turn up the volume and actually push the tubes, it reduces the amount of modeling simulated. It's designed to always sound like you're pushing the power section no matter what volume you are actually playing at.

so if you want to think about the entire signal chain its:
1) pre-amp modeling (selected on Pod or via topology switch w/o Pod)
2) live-voiced cab (selected on Pod or via topology switch w/o Pod)
3) power-amp modeling (if in low volume mode)
4) actual power amp (using the class, topology, pentode/triode settings chosen in Pod, if no Pod then using the DT-XX manual switches)
5a) speaker simulation and lower power direct output
5b) high power speaker output

Here's another interesting feature. The Pod implements additional power amp simulation parameters for the "full" amp models (Sag, Hum, Bias, Bias X), which you can't edit in the DT-XX. You could use these when you are playing at really low volumes instead of choosing low-volume mode on the DT-XX. This would give you additional control over the power amp tone.

Wow, I wish you were my amp salesperson. Anyone I've talked to at Guitar Center about these amps knows much less than I do...
:facepalm
I recall once a newer version of POD HD firmware came out (1.5?) people mentioned the newer advanced params you listed: bias, hum, sag, etc...) really made the HD sound better and come alive and also fixed issues when using high output or humbucker guitars immediately overdriving the inputs on the HD and making cleans sound bad.
Are these controls technically available in the HD in PREAMP mode? I ask because they are pretty much POWER AMP controls, but you and others have already mentioned that you would normally set your HD to PREAMP only and get power amp/cab/speaker from the DT when they are combined?
I have heard varying results of low power mode. For me, it's extremely important that this thing sounds really good at all power levels. One guy on the L6 forum recommends an external attenuator combined with the DT series as opposed to lower power mode... that seems backwards to me. I mean hell, I'll just get a full blown amp if I have to also buy an attenuator.
From what you are saying it sounds like I could stay away from LPM and instead use regular mode (turned very low) but increase params on the HD for bias, sag, etc... to make up for super low volume and still make it sound better than low power mode?
Also, if I want to record direct with no signal sent to the speaker I believe the DT25 will let me leave the amp in standby. Do I need to be in standby AND be in LPM to do this? Or could I be in standby in regular power mode?
Another big thing I need to test is recording direct and I want to get the best, realistic tones to disk as possible. I know it's easier to just use the HD direct (which of course I will try) but if I can tap off of the back of the DT used in conjunction with the HD and not have to move, recable anything when I switch between "live" playing, low volume playing AND silent direct to disk that would be huge.
Of course I'm going to give low power mode it's fair shake to start.

[clintmartin]

Wow, I wish you were my amp salesperson. Anyone I've talked to at Guitar Center about these amps knows much less than I do...
:facepalm
I recall once a newer version of POD HD firmware came out (1.5?) people mentioned the newer advanced params you listed: bias, hum, sag, etc...) really made the HD sound better and come alive and also fixed issues when using high output or humbucker guitars immediately overdriving the inputs on the HD and making cleans sound bad.
Are these controls technically available in the HD in PREAMP mode? I ask because they are pretty much POWER AMP controls, but you and others have already mentioned that you would normally set your HD to PREAMP only and get power amp/cab/speaker from the DT when they are combined?
I have heard varying results of low power mode. For me, it's extremely important that this thing sounds really good at all power levels. One guy on the L6 forum recommends an external attenuator combined with the DT series as opposed to lower power mode... that seems backwards to me. I mean hell, I'll just get a full blown amp if I have to also buy an attenuator.
From what you are saying it sounds like I could stay away from LPM and instead use regular mode (turned very low) but increase params on the HD for bias, sag, etc... to make up for super low volume and still make it sound better than low power mode?
Also, if I want to record direct with no signal sent to the speaker I believe the DT25 will let me leave the amp in standby. Do I need to be in standby AND be in LPM to do this? Or could I be in standby in regular power mode?
Another big thing I need to test is recording direct and I want to get the best, realistic tones to disk as possible. I know it's easier to just use the HD direct (which of course I will try) but if I can tap off of the back of the DT used in conjunction with the HD and not have to move, recable anything when I switch between "live" playing, low volume playing AND silent direct to disk that would be huge.
Of course I'm going to give low power mode it's fair shake to start.

LPM sounds great to me. I use it all the time. You will not have those controls in preamp mode but, You don't need them with the DT amps. I'm only using the full models for my direct patches, which I use for recording. I would have to check to be sure but, I think I'm using the Divided by 13 cab because, it's the closest thing to the speaker in the DT50. 12" Celestion.

[BRUNO]

Now I thought you could set the topology/class and pentode/triode in HDEdit, because there is a setting for it, correct? Meaning you could configure it all ahead of time, dump it into the pod and then control the DT without touching it (except the master).

Yeah with the HD edit no problem ..but the OP said controlling everything from the POD ..there you can't ;-)

[BRUNO]

On the DT50 the Blackface Lux is topology 1 and the Park 75 is topology 2. Class A is the Lux, class A/B is the Park 75. That's why I suggested trying the tweed or park 75 because they are class A/B and should be louder than the Fender, which is topology 1 class A.

I sent back the DT25 last week..I'm not sure cause it was linked to the HD500 all the time but I think the Fender was class A/B as stock patch ,so it's different on the DT50 ?
Of course this is not set in stone and you can use any of the 4 with your choice of class ..As far as I'm concerned the Fender's were used with classA/B

[Gasp100]

LPM sounds great to me. I use it all the time. You will not have those controls in preamp mode but, You don't need them with the DT amps. I'm only using the full models for my direct patches, which I use for recording. I would have to check to be sure but, I think I'm using the Divided by 13 cab because, it's the closest thing to the speaker in the DT50. 12" Celestion.

Thanks! I will use this and other threads as my reference.

[meambobbo]

I recall once a newer version of POD HD firmware came out (1.5?) people mentioned the newer advanced params you listed: bias, hum, sag, etc...) really made the HD sound better and come alive and also fixed issues when using high output or humbucker guitars immediately overdriving the inputs on the HD and making cleans sound bad.
Are these controls technically available in the HD in PREAMP mode? I ask because they are pretty much POWER AMP controls, but you and others have already mentioned that you would normally set your HD to PREAMP only and get power amp/cab/speaker from the DT when they are combined?
I have heard varying results of low power mode. For me, it's extremely important that this thing sounds really good at all power levels. One guy on the L6 forum recommends an external attenuator combined with the DT series as opposed to lower power mode... that seems backwards to me. I mean hell, I'll just get a full blown amp if I have to also buy an attenuator.
From what you are saying it sounds like I could stay away from LPM and instead use regular mode (turned very low) but increase params on the HD for bias, sag, etc... to make up for super low volume and still make it sound better than low power mode?
Also, if I want to record direct with no signal sent to the speaker I believe the DT25 will let me leave the amp in standby. Do I need to be in standby AND be in LPM to do this? Or could I be in standby in regular power mode?
Another big thing I need to test is recording direct and I want to get the best, realistic tones to disk as possible. I know it's easier to just use the HD direct (which of course I will try) but if I can tap off of the back of the DT used in conjunction with the HD and not have to move, recable anything when I switch between "live" playing, low volume playing AND silent direct to disk that would be huge.
Of course I'm going to give low power mode it's fair shake to start.

I don't understand the overdriving input thing. I WAS able to do so, but only by playing as loud as possible, directly over my bridge pickup, with the pickup height raised rather close to the pickup. That's with a Dimarzio Steve's Special - no slouch on output. I also hooked straight up to my DAW and did the same test and was clipping my audio interface. Both my audio interface and the Pod stopped clipping at the same levels, as I reduced pickup height. The A/D converter is also used in the Avid 11R. I could never get it to clip with Seymour Duncan Blackouts, as they seem to have a buffer that limits their output. If you really have an issue with input clipping, just reduce the pickup height a bit. Or get a cheap pedal to attenuate the signal a touch before hitting the Pod.

Note: If you are clipping the input A/D converter, no controls inside the Pod can dial that out. Where the Master, Hum, Sag, Bias, Bias X controls help is to improve the power section headroom in the modelling of some of the cleaner amps. If you are using the "Pre" versions of the models, you don't get these controls, but you don't have to worry about running out of headroom either - there's no virtual power section to clip.

If you got clipping, it would be because you're clipping the DT's actual power section, at least in normal mode. In low power mode, I believe you could get the same virtual clipping with a low master setting, and then you may fare better using normal mode and using a "full" model in the pod, with the power amp parameters tweaked. My solution for the Blackface Dbl model was to turn the Master Volume parameter from 100% to 20% and Bias X from 50% to 100%. This seemed to have little impact on tone, while dialing out a lot of the modeled crossover distortion. But such settings won't prevent the DT's actual power section from breaking up at higher volumes. There is no way to prevent that, unless you can use different class, topology, and pentode/triode settings to increase the headroom...but then you're changing the tone too.

I don't have a DT (yet), but what it sounds like to me is that when you have the low power mode activated, the power amp modeling uses a Master Volume setting inverse to the actual master setting you have on the amp. So if you put the knob at 0, it's setting the emulation volume at 100% (maybe less), and as you turn the master knob all the way up, it rolls back the virtual setting to 0%. So if you're going to be recording in standby mode, I'm not sure if you could use the master knob to change the setting, or if it will simply default to max power amp simulation.

In standby mode, I don't think you're even hitting the real power section, so I would imagine you would get a similar tone from the Pod HD full models vs. pre's using low power mode in the DT - either way it's modelling and I imagine the exact same modelling. the difference is that the Pod let's you tweak it a lot more. I'd use the full models for this application.

The only advantage (AFAIK) to using the low power mode is that it automatically adjusts the amount of power amp simulation as you turn up and down the master knob. theoretically, you could get the same tone if you tweaked the Master Volume DEP on the Pod at the same time as you changed the master on the DT using a "full" model. Just move them inversely as described above. Doing this could also help you dial in different amounts of power amp stress, without being tied to output volume.

Then you could additionally tweak the other parameters to get tones you couldn't get using the pre + DT low power mode. I haven't found them to be radically helpful in general, other than changing the Master Volume DEP to get the right amount of power amp feel, compression, breakup, grit, etc., although I do make slight tweaks to them on lots of my Pod patches. The one place I feel they real come in handy is to lower the Bias on the Marshall models. That makes them sound more Marshally IMO, especially when going after the EVH tone where it sounds like the amp is being absolutely destroyed.

Also keep in mind, the lower you set the Master Volume DEP, the less effect all the other power amp parameters will have on the tone.

I'm not sure if you have to be in low power mode to use the direct out in standby mode, but I would imagine it works in LPM or normal mode. After hearing recordings of the direct out in another thread, I would certainly use that over the Pod cab/mic simulation. To get the Pod direct tone both as thick and as crisp as the DT direct out sounds, I end up running dual amp patches with the same amp model but different cab/mic selections and I EQ the amps a bit differently so they basically each have unique frequency ranges and don't interfere with each other. It's a real pain in the ass. It also means I'm severely DSP limited. Once I get the DT, I'm sure it'll be direct out, all the way...unless Line 6 adds the ability to load IR's onto the Pod.

[BigGee]

Thanks for the replies...just wanted to let you know I was checking in. I'm pretty busy today & won't get to read post & play around until tomorrow.

[NickZ]

GASP,
I'm curious - seeing as you have had the Axe 2 and the Kemper - what is the purpose of going down this route? Do you really expect to get something better out of this setup - or is it just to try soothing new and tinker.
I have gone the Axe ultra route - and while that didn't exactly do it for me and I sold it - someone offered me a DT 50 combo - and while it was tempting because it was a ridiculous deal (and to be honest I have yet to hear one in person) - i don't see what I could get from it that I couldn't have had in spades from my axe.
I am genuinely curious as I am between things right now and was considering a few options and like yourself play mainly @ home - so just wondering what the thought process is here ....

[BRUNO]

I don't understand the overdriving input thing. I WAS able to do so, but only by playing as loud as possible, directly over my bridge pickup, with the pickup height raised rather close to the pickup. That's with a Dimarzio Steve's Special - no slouch on output. I also hooked straight up to my DAW and did the same test and was clipping my audio interface. Both my audio interface and the Pod stopped clipping at the same levels, as I reduced pickup height. The A/D converter is also used in the Avid 11R. I could never get it to clip with Seymour Duncan Blackouts, as they seem to have a buffer that limits their output. If you really have an issue with input clipping, just reduce the pickup height a bit. Or get a cheap pedal to attenuate the signal a touch before hitting the Pod.

Note: If you are clipping the input A/D converter, no controls inside the Pod can dial that out. Where the Master, Hum, Sag, Bias, Bias X controls help is to improve the power section headroom in the modelling of some of the cleaner amps. If you are using the "Pre" versions of the models, you don't get these controls, but you don't have to worry about running out of headroom either - there's no virtual power section to clip.

If you got clipping, it would be because you're clipping the DT's actual power section, at least in normal mode. In low power mode, I believe you could get the same virtual clipping with a low master setting, and then you may fare better using normal mode and using a "full" model in the pod, with the power amp parameters tweaked. My solution for the Blackface Dbl model was to turn the Master Volume parameter from 100% to 20% and Bias X from 50% to 100%. This seemed to have little impact on tone, while dialing out a lot of the modeled crossover distortion. But such settings won't prevent the DT's actual power section from breaking up at higher volumes. There is no way to prevent that, unless you can use different class, topology, and pentode/triode settings to increase the headroom...but then you're changing the tone too.

I don't have a DT (yet), but what it sounds like to me is that when you have the low power mode activated, the power amp modeling uses a Master Volume setting inverse to the actual master setting you have on the amp. So if you put the knob at 0, it's setting the emulation volume at 100% (maybe less), and as you turn the master knob all the way up, it rolls back the virtual setting to 0%. So if you're going to be recording in standby mode, I'm not sure if you could use the master knob to change the setting, or if it will simply default to max power amp simulation.

In standby mode, I don't think you're even hitting the real power section, so I would imagine you would get a similar tone from the Pod HD full models vs. pre's using low power mode in the DT - either way it's modelling and I imagine the exact same modelling. the difference is that the Pod let's you tweak it a lot more. I'd use the full models for this application.

The only advantage (AFAIK) to using the low power mode is that it automatically adjusts the amount of power amp simulation as you turn up and down the master knob. theoretically, you could get the same tone if you tweaked the Master Volume DEP on the Pod at the same time as you changed the master on the DT using a "full" model. Just move them inversely as described above. Doing this could also help you dial in different amounts of power amp stress, without being tied to output volume.

Then you could additionally tweak the other parameters to get tones you couldn't get using the pre + DT low power mode. I haven't found them to be radically helpful in general, other than changing the Master Volume DEP to get the right amount of power amp feel, compression, breakup, grit, etc., although I do make slight tweaks to them on lots of my Pod patches. The one place I feel they real come in handy is to lower the Bias on the Marshall models. That makes them sound more Marshally IMO, especially when going after the EVH tone where it sounds like the amp is being absolutely destroyed.

Also keep in mind, the lower you set the Master Volume DEP, the less effect all the other power amp parameters will have on the tone.

I'm not sure if you have to be in low power mode to use the direct out in standby mode, but I would imagine it works in LPM or normal mode. After hearing recordings of the direct out in another thread, I would certainly use that over the Pod cab/mic simulation. To get the Pod direct tone both as thick and as crisp as the DT direct out sounds, I end up running dual amp patches with the same amp model but different cab/mic selections and I EQ the amps a bit differently so they basically each have unique frequency ranges and don't interfere with each other. It's a real pain in the ass. It also means I'm severely DSP limited. Once I get the DT, I'm sure it'll be direct out, all the way...unless Line 6 adds the ability to load IR's onto the Pod.

Yes you need to be in LPM to use the direct out with stdby on with the DT25... it doesn't really sound the same as the full power mode...there's always the possibility to use a load resistor..That's what I did to test my DT25 in the PA..I didn't like the direct out much more than the POD direct to PA.. so I shipped the head back..into a guitar cab this is another story..the amp isn't bad at all. but for direct only getting the amp isn't a huge bonus ..IMHO

[Gasp100]

All good stuff guys, thanks! LPM will be nice to try, I do like the idea that you can be in LPM and then start to push the volume a bit and grab at least a little of the real power section.
TBH the entire reason I'm even trying this approach is that I have come to the conclusion than an all digital / solid state rig is NOT for me AT the price ranges I feel comfortable spending. I have spent A LOT of money and time on the absolute best modeler's money can buy. They all sound excellent through nearfield monitors, pretty good through headphones and normally very good recording direct to disk for no volume. It's when I try to amplify them loud -- from moderate volumes hanging with my 6 year old banging on his small kit -- and beyond that things are falling apart.
I feel like the two sides to get that final "my modeler does everything for me" bit is:
1. Spend $1K plus on the "right" FRFR = sorry, don't have the scratch
2. Use a tube power amp + traditional cab = sorry, can't justify spending ~$500-1K on a tube power amp that is going to add even more crap to carry than a traditional head/cab
3. The DT series in conjunction with the HD stuff.
I just posted some clips on another subject, I'm interested to hear what people think on those. They helped me make a big decision on what I'm going to use for direct to disk and nearfield monitor playing for now.

[Gasp100]

GASP,
I'm curious - seeing as you have had the Axe 2 and the Kemper - what is the purpose of going down this route? Do you really expect to get something better out of this setup - or is it just to try soothing new and tinker.
I have gone the Axe ultra route - and while that didn't exactly do it for me and I sold it - someone offered me a DT 50 combo - and while it was tempting because it was a ridiculous deal (and to be honest I have yet to hear one in person) - i don't see what I could get from it that I couldn't have had in spades from my axe.
I am genuinely curious as I am between things right now and was considering a few options and like yourself play mainly @ home - so just wondering what the thought process is here ....

Hi Nick, I just posted my reasoning to give this a shot. It has to do with money, versatility and having one rig that can work in all situations that is satisfying to my ears, my back (and my wallet).

[NickZ]

Gasp,
I hear you - was just curious - sometimes it helps to hear others think out loud.
I am tempted to go and try the dt 50 - but to be honest I am really looking for the 25 - no one has it for sale used locally.
Good luck and post some clips - I always check out your clips in your other thread sand enjoy them.
Take care.

[clintmartin]

I sent back the DT25 last week..I'm not sure cause it was linked to the HD500 all the time but I think the Fender was class A/B as stock patch ,so it's different on the DT50 ?
Of course this is not set in stone and you can use any of the 4 with your choice of class ..As far as I'm concerned the Fender's were used with classA/B

Your right. I was wrong. The DT50 and 25 are different though. The 50 has the lux preamp for topology I and the 25 has the twin on topology I.

I have edited my earlier post to fix incorrect information.

[BRUNO]

Your right. I was wrong. The DT50 and 25 are different though. The 50 has the lux preamp for topology I and the 25 has the twin on topology I.

Yeah I think it's the twin vibrato channel not the normal one ..
BTW for anyone looking for no breakup on cleans with good dynamics I was surprised to hear that the deluxe gave me better results than the twin on the HD500..I was expecting the opposite..bias , sag etc..can make a big difference to your tone...
Note that I'm using a JTV69 with variax tones only ( no magnetics )..another guitar might yields totally different results

[clintmartin]

Yeah I've played through a Twin reverb II for over 30 years and I can't get the Twin to sound right to me. The Lux is great! I switched to the Park because of the pop noise you'll get when switching from a topology 1 patch to a topology II patch. It's seamless now.

[BRUNO]

Yeah I've played through a Twin reverb II for over 30 years and I can't get the Twin to sound right to me. The Lux is great! I switched to the Park because of the pop noise you'll get when switching from a topology 1 patch to a topology II patch. It's seamless now.

Try the twin vib channel not the normal one ..I can send a patch to you if you want..may be it'll be worse than what you already have anyway ;-)

[Gasp100]

Yeah I've played through a Twin reverb II for over 30 years and I can't get the Twin to sound right to me. The Lux is great! I switched to the Park because of the pop noise you'll get when switching from a topology 1 patch to a topology II patch. It's seamless now.

I was going to ask about this... so I should expect some popping when switching between topology I and II or III and IV? But between I-III and II-IV is okay?
I've heard that with the DT25 the pops and switching lags are not as bad, is this true?
Also, they is still a physical switchover when using the HD500 to control all of this crap, right?

[clintmartin]

Yep, there is a physical change, but I think thats pretty cool myself. I made a clean and dirty patch using the same topology and class to eliminate pop and lag. I also have a bank with just blackface lux patches...just because it's a great model.

[Axe-Man]

i don't see what I could get from it that I couldn't have had in spades from my axe.

Hey Nick, I'd imagine you're right and that the Axe is a pretty killer unit though to play at home and to also play out, there comes alot of extra gear which adds serious coin to an already high end unit.

Axe (Std/Ultra/II), midi controller of varying cost, rack, poweramp, guitar cab for a more 'standard' guitar rig setup or all the above but FRFR cabs.

I would imagine that all this would sound really good but it's extremely pricey, very heavy (if there is a poweramp) and it's annoying to setup and move (IMHO).

I know this for fact as I had an 11R poweramp rig exactly like that mentioned above. It wasn't the Axe but it's a close enough relative tonally and all the extras were the same.

The DT sounds easily as good as my 11R rig (I like it way better actually) and it's simple to setup.

It's basically connecting a guitar cable to a HD floorboard, a L6link cable to the DT, add power and that's it; you're making noise. My whole rig was surprisingly cost effective for what it does.

To have a rig that sounds like an amp and to also have the flexibility of a modeller and rack fx setup that is actually pretty darn cost effective for all this AND it's easy to move/setup...I personally think that's a pretty impressive achievment.

I also haven't done any tweaking that isn't just like a normal guitar rig to be completely honest. Amp EQ, pedal EQ adjustments and that is it...well apart from some tinkering with the class/NFL/triode options which many amps do have (they don't usally have NFL changes though).

I was always tweaking my 11R where I just find I don't need to with this...haven't even considered using pre and post EQs!

I was going to ask about this... so I should expect some popping when switching between topology I and II or III and IV? But between I-III and II-IV is okay?
I've heard that with the DT25 the pops and switching lags are not as bad, is this true?
Also, they is still a physical switchover when using the HD500 to control all of this crap, right?

The DT50 is noisier than the DT25 (which is very quiet) but the 50 is still very easy on the ears. I think the pops are from the relays disengaging the NFL etc Sometime they are more noticable than other times. The worst is a quick scroll through the POD's presets (alots happens when you do that!)...I just use the footswitches to select another patch so it's only a single set of clicks.

If you want silent switching use the same topology and class etc and it's silent.

The HD controls ALL of the changes once you've saved a patch. One click and everything updates...it takes prob one single second to completely reconfigure the power section and preamp (say from Class A, Triode, zero NF to Class A/B, Pentode, NFL I for example).

[Tarkus]

If you're playing by yourself at a lower volume, you'll notice the clicks as the amp changes what it's doing. If you're playing live with a drummer you'll NEVER hear it. I can't beleive anyone's honestly complaining about this.

[Gasp100]

Yep, there is a physical change, but I think thats pretty cool myself. I made a clean and dirty patch using the same topology and class to eliminate pop and lag. I also have a bank with just blackface lux patches...just because it's a great model.

I have a clean clip of mine of the HD's lux model back on the original firmware (1.03?) recorded direct to disk which still holds up today along all of the other much more expensive modelers I have used. I think the Lux will definitely one of my main if not my main patch.

[ToneCaptain]

how are you setting up the pod to work with the dt-xx?( i am referring to configuration of the pod ) which settings sound best to your ears?

[Gtrman100]

The DT50/25 automatically sets up the output of the Pod HD via the L6link. If you have the DT50/25 head it's stack power amp, if it's the DT50/25 combo, it's combo power amp.

[BigGee]

Can you still do dual tones with the DT? I have a couple patches that I use for clean arpeggio work that I layer with a lower volume distortion. I'm trying to give the effect of more than one guitar...dual tones.

[Johnny Vox]

Can you still do dual tones with the DT? I have a couple patches that I use for clean arpeggio work that I layer with a lower volume distortion. I'm trying to give the effect of more than one guitar...dual tones.

You can use dual tones but they sound more like one unique amp (in a good way) out of the DT. Unless you want to use two DTs, in which case they can be set up independently.

[Rod]

I really think Line 6 should have designed the DT 25 with 4 el84's not 2 of them. You need the headroom.. And call it a DT 35 . The DT25 should really be relabeled DT15 or 18.