WAH EXPERTS: help me please, I'm tired

[ruger9]

I had an MC404 CAE wah that I LOVED... the RED fasel side only. I wouldn't have needed to even bother search for another wah. BUT... it's not fuzz friendly (please don't post that it has a buffer & is fuzz friendly, it doesn't, and it's not... it has a BOOSTER, not the same thing as an impedance buffer. But I digress).

I haven't bought a wah since, because I don't want to go thru wahs like I have drive pedals. I have already found the wah tone I love, I just need it in a fuzz-friendly package. For over a year I have been reading all the wah threads, but can't find a definitive answer to my particular problem.

SO... I need a wah that has the thick, chewy, (not vocal) tone of the red fasel, but either is already fuzz friendly or is one I can install a foxrox buffer in. NOTE: it doesn't have to actually have the red fasel, just SOUND thick & chewy like the red fasel. I also don't need true bypass.

Someone on here has suggested to me the Crybaby Classic, because it has the red fasel, sounds as close as I'm going to get to the CAE red fasel, and will accept the foxrox buffer. Is this the answer/the consensus?

[lv]

Might want to email Geoffrey Teese and see if he's played the CAE and if so which of his wahs might come closest. I too think the red fasel setting is one of the best wah tones.

[Godspeed64]

'Chewy' is possibly on of the worst adjectives to describe tone in guitar history.

That said, have you looked at Area 51 wahs? They go under the radar due to the pricing.

[ruger9]

Looking for specific suggestions here. I've read all about Area51 & Teese... calling Teese wouldn't be a bad idea. But I'm looking for guys who have owned the 404 & can compare the tone to the CB Classic or other wah?

The 2 goals, in the end, are:

-CAE 404 Red Fasel tone
-fuzz friendly or able to be modded with the foxrox (they currently list 3 of the teeses, the CB classic, the V847, and the Budda)

[drolling]

Dave's buffer works exactly as advertised, and I've installed it into a '90s VOX-847 & a Dunlop '80s Crybaby (CBG-95) with excellent results

I also picked up both red & yellow Fasel RIs when they became available; The yellow's in the V-847, and the red one was in the CBG-95 till I replaced the entire PCB with an Area51 kit

Both these wahs sound great, IMO. Classic 'Jimi' & 'Eric' tones. Similar, but not identical to the Teese 'Pic' (RMC-4) I've had for a few years. FWIW, the Pic wah came factory-loaded with the FoxRox buffer

[ruger9]

If foxrox had a kit for the CAE, or even the 535Q, I'd just go that route. But they only have a kit for the classic. I see the RMC1 is listed as the "darkest" teese wah, probably the one I'd go for... and foxrox does have a kit for that one, BUT I did think all the teese's come with the buffer, like drolling mentioned above? Can anybody verify?

[Mr. Kite]

How about putting a buffered pedal in a Kelley loop right after your wah and before your fuzz? Then engage the loop/buffer when you want fuzz and wah and disengage when you want true bypass.

[ruger9]

How about putting a buffered pedal in a Kelley loop right after your wah and before your fuzz? Then engage the loop/buffer when you want fuzz and wah and disengage when you want true bypass.

I guess that would work, but I'd prefer simplicity, especially since there IS a way to make a wah fuzz friendly, I just have to find the right wah, or at least one I can "settle" for. FWIW, I use the fuzz & wah independently of one another, as well as together.

[ruger9]

Wait a minute....

As I do even more reading today, am I correct in saying that the whole "fuzz friendly wah" thing only applies to the situation of wah BEFORE fuzz??? What if you prefer fuzz before wah? If I remember correctly, my issue was, I prefer fuzz before wah, and that gave me a sqealing wah (Fuzz Head & CAE404)... will the wah buffer even help with this issue? Because if not, I'm apparently barking up the wrong tree...?

[JLee]

Foxrox buffer or "fuzz friendly" wah is not what you're looking for then. The buffers cure the wah into fuzz impedance issues. Odd that you're getting squealing with the wah following the fuzz.

[RockStarNick]

Ruger9 - I've had a CAE wah, and a classic. They sound NOTHING alike.

If anything, the Classic is more similar to the yellow side of the CAE.

Where are you in NJ? I'm in Hawthorne off Route 208/287. I have a 535Q, you're more than welcome to come by and try it out.

nick

[S. S. Bender]

'Chewy' is possibly on of the worst adjectives to describe tone in guitar history.

+1. "Chewy" is right up there with "Haunting Mids" in my book.

To the original poster; The newer versions of the Fulltone Clyde Deluxe have a selectable and adjustable buffer for compatibility with fuzz units. However, even though the Clyde has three selectable wah style/tone modes, it might still be considered more "vocal" sounding than what you're looking for.

[ruger9]

Ruger9 - I've had a CAE wah, and a classic. They sound NOTHING alike.

If anything, the Classic is more similar to the yellow side of the CAE.

Where are you in NJ? I'm in Hawthorne off Route 208/287. I have a 535Q, you're more than welcome to come by and try it out.

nick

Thanks for that. That crosses that one off the list.

Hackettstown, BTW... a bit of a drive from Hawthorne for a try-out; but thatnks for the offer, and especially for the info on the Classic.

[ruger9]

Foxrox buffer or "fuzz friendly" wah is not what you're looking for then. The buffers cure the wah into fuzz impedance issues. Odd that you're getting squealing with the wah following the fuzz.

I just went back to find an old post of mine, and it verifies that was the issue I was having...

"Results: CAE & Keeley Fuzz Head

Weird... when I ran this test before, I was getting that high-pitched squeal just like on those installation videos for the Foxrox. Now, I don't. I'm still on the verge or screechy feedback, and it's noisy as hell (fuzz & wah both on), but I suspect this is normal... especially going into a cooking amp.

I can't use the boost circuit AT ALL. It immediately gets too hot & I go into feedback. So these resulats are with the boost OFF (perhaps that was the problem before: I had accidentally kicked the boost on & didn't realize it.)

Fuzz into wah: the best setup. Still very noisy (gain pedal into wah into cooking/overdriving amp), but I still have full sweep of the wah & no tonal changes (other than what the fuzz & wah are intended to provide.)

Wah into fuzz: same results as above BUT more noisy... a loud hiss, white noise, is added to the mess above. Still have full sweep.

My preference: fuzz into wah.

Can anybody speak to the "on the verge of feedback" using a fuzz + wah, into an already overdriving amp? Does that sound right? (I'm new to both fuzz & wah; I got them both at the same time, just recently.) As long as this "verge of feedback" thing sounds normal, I guess I don't need the Foxrox retrofit after all, from what I can tell.


HOLD THE PHONE.... may have spoke too soon. I was using my tele. Switched to my strat and the setup squeals like a pig, in any configuraton. Guitar volume up, but not playing, squeals like a pig. Looks like I'm right back where I started."

[AXXA]

Wait a minute....

As I do even more reading today, am I correct in saying that the whole "fuzz friendly wah" thing only applies to the situation of wah BEFORE fuzz??? What if you prefer fuzz before wah? If I remember correctly, my issue was, I prefer fuzz before wah, and that gave me a sqealing wah (Fuzz Head & CAE404)... will the wah buffer even help with this issue? Because if not, I'm apparently barking up the wrong tree...?

You can put ANY fuzz before a wah. If you're getting squealing, then its probably feedback.

Fuzz Friendly buffers mainly just help wah into fuzz face, which will cause oscillation without the buffer. Oscillation is a squealing that changes pitch as you sweep the wah. You can also turn the fuzz knob down a bit, or your guitar's volume knob down some, sometimes that will help. Fuzz friendly buffers won't work will all fuzzes though.

[michael stuart 57]

I had an Anolog man fuzzy kinda thing infront of a really nice wah and it was great

But for me its guitar cord amp

[sixstringslut]

Squealing is entirely different problem, space may be your ticket. This is why it is very hard to mount a wah on a board, it can be done but with kid-gloves. My Rmc3 didn't like my V-Twin at all, had to move them a few feet apart. Also, power supplys can be a cause to a lot of problems and need to be launched a few feet from the board and keep them loose so you can move them around to eliminate noise. Wahs in general don't like anything close to them. IMO

[S. S. Bender]

I just went back to find an old post of mine, and it verifies that was the issue I was having...

"Results: CAE & Keeley Fuzz Head

Weird... when I ran this test before, I was getting that high-pitched squeal just like on those installation videos for the Foxrox. Now, I don't. I'm still on the verge or screechy feedback, and it's noisy as hell (fuzz & wah both on), but I suspect this is normal... especially going into a cooking amp.

I can't use the boost circuit AT ALL. It immediately gets too hot & I go into feedback. So these resulats are with the boost OFF (perhaps that was the problem before: I had accidentally kicked the boost on & didn't realize it.)

Fuzz into wah: the best setup. Still very noisy (gain pedal into wah into cooking/overdriving amp), but I still have full sweep of the wah & no tonal changes (other than what the fuzz & wah are intended to provide.)

Wah into fuzz: same results as above BUT more noisy... a loud hiss, white noise, is added to the mess above. Still have full sweep.

My preference: fuzz into wah.

Can anybody speak to the "on the verge of feedback" using a fuzz + wah, into an already overdriving amp? Does that sound right? (I'm new to both fuzz & wah; I got them both at the same time, just recently.) As long as this "verge of feedback" thing sounds normal, I guess I don't need the Foxrox retrofit after all, from what I can tell.


HOLD THE PHONE.... may have spoke too soon. I was using my tele. Switched to my strat and the setup squeals like a pig, in any configuraton. Guitar volume up, but not playing, squeals like a pig. Looks like I'm right back where I started."

It sounds like one or more of your Strat pickups are borderline microphonic. I had this happen to me with high gain pedals, and replacing the microphonic guitar pickup cured the squeal problem.

[ruger9]

ok ok... thanks for the replies. So, I *should* be able to do any fuzz before any wah. So maybe I'll give this another shot with the CAE and see what happens... altho, I've just watched some demos/read some reviews of the Wylde wah, and it also seems to be voiced thick with sweetened high end, (no waka-waka) which is what I'm after... and it's cheaper than the CAE by alot. Also, the 535Q has piqued my interested, being that it's tone is adjustable...

If anyone can compare the CAE red fasel to the Wylde or the 535Q...

[drolling]

Yep, the FoxRox buffer's a cure for those of us who don't like the sound of wah AFTER fuzz. You should theoretically be able to place ANY wah after ANY fuzz without problems

When running a wah IN FRONT of, say, a vintage-style silicon FuzzFace, the FoxRox buffer eliminates the howling feedback you'd normally hear. This was a problem for me, as I really can't stand the over-the-top, cartoonish sound of wah after fuzz - I need a little more subtlety, for lack of a better term. The other problem I was having besides the oscillating squeal, was that some other fuzzes (Octavia clones, for example) just seem to obliterate the wah effect completely, so that the 'sweep' effect becomes almost inaudible.. And that's just a bit too subtle

If you're never going to be running your wah in front of your fuzz pedals, you'll have no need for Dave's buffer. Congratulations! You've just saved yourself a bit of work.. Compared to swapping out a pickup, I found it to be a bit of a challenge

You may want to put your time & energy into trying those Fasel reissues instead. IMO, they make quite a dramatic difference to the sound of most wah circuits. I've tested both in a number of different pedals, with great results!

[ruger9]

I've struck Gold!!!


I don't know why it took me so long to discover the stinkfoot wah mod site, but with the info on this site, I'll be able to take a crybaby and make it sound however I want, as well as add an LED. Perfect.

I just picked up a Zakk Wylde wah in the emporium, it has the deep throaty tone & red fasel already, I'll add an LED (making it TB as well), and adjust a cap if neccesary, adjust the treadle, should be able to get what I'm looking for no problem.

http://stinkfoot.se/archives/tag/crybaby

Thanks to Soul Man for the Wylde wah, and thanks to XmasTree for the mod idea/help.


As far as my squealing issue, (keep in mind I'm running the wah LAST, after the fuzz, so it shouldn't be squealing), we'll see what happens... I've got a dedicated buffer at the BEGINNING of the board, have already moved the fuzzes to before the buffer, may have to do the same with the wah...putting the buffer last in line on the board. Some experimentation with buffer placement will be necessary.

[standingzero]

Yeah,
Moving the buffer around is key. I just added a germanium buzzaround and so now I have my Wilson wah (w/ built in fuzz buffer), buzzaround, then buffer and rest of my effects. Took some time to rearrange, but it's all working good now.

Best of luck!


I've struck Gold!!!


I don't know why it took me so long to discover the stinkfoot wah mod site, but with the info on this site, I'll be able to take a crybaby and make it sound however I want, as well as add an LED. Perfect.

I just picked up a Zakk Wylde wah in the emporium, it has the deep throaty tone & red fasel already, I'll add an LED (making it TB as well), and adjust a cap if neccesary, adjust the treadle, should be able to get what I'm looking for no problem.

http://stinkfoot.se/archives/tag/crybaby

Thanks to Soul Man for the Wylde wah, and thanks to XmasTree for the mod idea/help.


As far as my squealing issue, (keep in mind I'm running the wah LAST, after the fuzz, so it shouldn't be squealing), we'll see what happens... I've got a dedicated buffer at the BEGINNING of the board, have already moved the fuzzes to before the buffer, may have to do the same with the wah...putting the buffer last in line on the board. Some experimentation with buffer placement will be necessary.