Running Instruments Through Monitors

[sacakl]

How many here run all instruments -- guitars, bass, drums -- through the monitors? I understand mains/FOH but does anyone here also do it through the monitors?

A newer bandmate, who plays drums, is strongly advocating for it. I think the quote was to have our amps on "1" and let the PA do the work, that it's easier to adjust levels from the board. This would definitely alter our sound. I've always used my amp as a monitor in a sense so I'm not sure if it's worth the sacrifice :confused:

[hitchface]

Totally depends. We do that for everything but drums, since they aren't mic'd. All I've ever really known for the last while is my sound through a monitor, but then that's the joy of modelling. If you've got the gear and you are willing to do some tweaking, there shouldn't be a problem.

[loudboy]

Unless you're playing big places, the only thing that should be in your monitors are vocals and any unamplified instruments.

Your amps should be positioned/set up so that everyone onstage can hear each other well.

You'll never have a bad FOH mix, or a pissy soundman if you do this.

[hitchface]

^^Only if those on stage know how to control volumes.

[sacakl]

We're definitely not playing big places and this would be our set-up for rehearsals even. We all have tube amps, though, and I play through a 12 watt princeton so we're not blowing doors. I like our sound as it is and don't want it generic or like the local band du jour.

[Rex Anderson]

As a soundman (and guitar player), I like to start a sound check with no PA or monitors on.

Of course this procedure depends on the size of the venue to some degree, but it has worked well for me and bands in most settings.

I have the drummer play a nice loud groove and add in other instruments one at a time so they balance acoustically on stage and in the room-that let's the guitar and bass amps open up enough to get tone but not be louder than the drums unless absolutely necessary for the player's tone.

I can then assess who needs what in monitors to get a song going, bringing up vocals in the PA and what ever each person requested in their monitors.

Then I go back to sound check the FOH mains starting with drums-kick snare, toms etc to get some punchy, full sound in the room as loud as necessary.

Add bass to balance with the kick drum. Add guitars etc, making sure to leave room for the vocals (lead and harmony). Lead vocal must always be
intelligible and sit just on top of the mix.

It's a bit of back and forth with the mains and monitors and tweaks with amps on stage. We communicate and start and stop until things are fine tuned-we don't waste time playing a lot until balances are achieved.

But the bottom line is, it's fast and efficient and everyone get's their input and the balance in the FOH mix is good, everyone is happy with their monitor mix (getting just what they need and at the lowest volume necessary to hear what they want so monitors don't bleed in to the house mix).

Setting amps on "1" is no way to get the ball rolling. And even if the drummer is the sound man, it's not a very democratic way to help achieve the goal of "good sound for everyone".

[GCDEF]

Left to right our stage set up is me, drums, singer/guitar, bass. We'll sometimes put some of my guitar in the bass player's and/or drummer's monitor, but other than that, just vocals.

New guy is right that it's easier to control and can work if you have decent monitor support, but it's not as much fun to play that way. I like to get the stage amps at a level that you can hear them well on stage alongside the drums, then let the monitors augment the stage mix where it's needed and let the mains support most of the house.

[rokpunk]

vocals all around, drummer gets kick, snare, bass, keys, and gtr, if he wants it. bass player gets kick, snare, and bass, guitar player(s) usually get their own guitar, and a little of the other gtr, if wanted. cowbell player gets as much cowbell as humanly possible.

[sacakl]

No cowbell but there is harp :drown

Thanks for the input guys, as always! I'm willing to try new things to a certain point, but hesitant to rush out and buy modelers, Boss ME-70 multi effects pedal, etc. that's going to drastically change our overall sound.

[rokpunk]

No cowbell but there is harp :drown

Thanks for the input guys, as always! I'm willing to try new things to a certain point, but hesitant to rush out and buy modelers, Boss ME-70 multi effects pedal, etc. that's going to drastically change our overall sound.


if the harp player needs a monitor, something is wrong with his hearing. his instrument is 6" from his ears.

[B Money]

my band has recently started putting more guitar in the monitors. Turning down at the amp and adding more volume via the monitors results in a better dispursion/distribution of sound across the entire stage. Depending on how many monitor mixes you have, everyone can get their own custom mix which is nice but not necessary.
We easily get by with two monitor mixes: one for the wedges at the front of the stage, and a separate mix for the drummer.
If you've got decent amps, you shouldn't have to crank them to sound good, so give it a try.

[rokpunk]

it's a rare day when i do sound for a band that is OK with only 2 monitor mixes. most bands expect individual mixes for each player, plus a pair of sidefills.

[B Money]

it's a rare day when i do sound for a band that is OK with only 2 monitor mixes. most bands expect individual mixes for each player, plus a pair of sidefills.

I'm sure we're not playing the same size venues.

My band plays the type of bars where you need to move a pool table and a dart machine to make room for a "stage" :messedup

We make chump change per gig and can't afford to hire a real soundman, so we provide our own modest PA and lights.

[Road King]

We almost always run everything through the monitors. We strive to have a low stage volume from the instruments so that our soundman can get the best possible mix FOH.
Works out great since we can have individual monitor mixes.

[loudboy]

I'm sure we're not playing the same size venues.

My band plays the type of bars where you need to move a pool table and a dart machine to make room for a "stage" :messedup

We make chump change per gig and can't afford to hire a real soundman, so we provide our own modest PA and lights.

All the more reason to have your stage amps be your "monitors" - other than vocals, your mix on stage should be perfectly balanced, w/o any monitors.

Solos should come up, and then go back down.

This is a lost art, but worth spending the time on, as it will allow you to always sound good.

[sacakl]

All the more reason to have your stage amps be your "monitors" - other than vocals, your mix on stage should be perfectly balanced, w/o any monitors.

Solos should come up, and then go back down.

This is a lost art, but worth spending the time on, as it will allow you to always sound good.

Yeah, this has been our philosophy, what we do, worked hard at, and have become good at. I sense this is old school nowadays and finding people who easily dismiss it. The bandmate's relative goes to sound college and both are adamant about running small amps on low volume or through modelers and miking everything into the monitors.

Guess this is more of a question of how we should work this out as a band more than anything. Not sure how we feel about a new member harping on it.

[B Money]

All the more reason to have your stage amps be your "monitors" - other than vocals, your mix on stage should be perfectly balanced, w/o any monitors.

Solos should come up, and then go back down.

This is a lost art, but worth spending the time on, as it will allow you to always sound good.

I can see your point, and we operated that way for years.

The problem is, that guitar cabs are so directional that it's almost impossible to get a good, even mix both on stage and FOH without putting some in the monitors. The guys on stage left can't hear whats going on stage right, and vis-versa. Everyone has their own little isolated 'hot spot' of sound.

I'm just offering my experience to the OP that turning down on stage to slighty below a comfortable level, and then compensating with some monitors, works great for us.

[GCDEF]

Yeah, this has been our philosophy, what we do, worked hard at, and have become good at. I sense this is old school nowadays and finding people who easily dismiss it. The bandmate's relative goes to sound college and both are adamant about running small amps on low volume or through modelers and miking everything into the monitors.

Guess this is more of a question of how we should work this out as a band more than anything. Not sure how we feel about a new member harping on it.

Do you use electronic drums? If not, match the stage amps to the drums' level, and use the PA and monitors to augment/spread the sound as necessary. I'm all for controlled volume and micing everything, but there comes a point where it isn't fun any more. If you're a rock band, your sound needs some cajones to sound authentic. I wouldn't let the guys in "sound college" cut the nads off your band just because some text book tells them to.

[rokpunk]

instead of putting the small guitar cabinets in the monitors, why not raise the monitors to ear level instead of having them sit on the floor, aiming at the back of the players knees?

[sacakl]

Great suggestions guys. No electronic drums being used and we currently have our amps on stands. I think this issue is not really about hearing our onstage mix and about "this is how it's done." We're a rock band and agree with GCDEF's comment about cutting our nads off.