Revisiting Old Van Halen that I didn't listen to in high school; next up Diver Down

[mesa/boogieman]

Disclaimer: Yes I was THAT pop kid in the eighties. Had Culture Club, Huey Lewis & the News, Duran Duran and Wham! in regular rotation. Of course I listened to VH's hits but that was it. All I knew off of Diver Down was Pretty Woman.

Dr. Tweedbucket was right. This is an under-rated album.

Where Have All the Good Times Gone; I think this is an enjoyable song. Very catchy how they do it.

Hang 'Em High. Awesome riff, but for some reason the song doesn't grab me on 1st listen.

Secrets: Got a nice Ladies Nite in Buffalo vibe.

The Full Bug: killer song!

Big Bad Bill: Eh, I could take it or leave it.

Over the years, I've heard Cathedral, Little Guitars and Happy Trails. Little Guitars is my favorite tune off this album. Love Eddie's clean/crunch tone he's got on it.

Next up; Fair Warning :)

Edit: I forgot to mention Dancing in the Street. I like that song. I did not know it was supposed to be an original.

[R3deemed]

This is probably the most slagged on VH/Roth album. However, it is one of my absolute favorites: Intruder/Pretty Woman, The Full Bug, Little Guitars, Where Have All the Good Times Gone... The guitar tone is unparalleled IMO, get's your feet moving and it's happy through and through!

I will admit, though, that I "unchecked" Big Bad Bill and Happy Trails on my iPod.

[VH5150]

Ladies Nite in Buffalo has a nice Secrets vibe going on

Fixed.... not really though imo

[Mr. Kite]

That cassette on the beach when I was a kid = High Times!

[Phila67]

The cool thing about Big Bad Bill is Jan Van Halen on clarinet, and Ed on a ES-335 (I believe). So with Wolf, does Van Halen set a record for recording with the most generations in one heavy rock band?

[Shnook]

At the time I thought it was the weakest VH release but found a few songs on there to like. I like it a little more these days. Back then I was so into the energy of Fair Warning that Diver Down was just a huge let down minus about 4 songs. Obviously Hang 'Em High rocked my world.

[sahhas]

remember hearing "pretty woman" a lot when i played basketball in my driveway back when that was released....

didn't really know who they were much at that pt. i mostly listened to the radio back then....

[smallbutmighty]

Diver Down: The good stuff is really, really good, and the bad stuff is really, REALLY bad. Not much middle ground on this album.

The Good (IOW, the originals):
Cathedral
Little Guitars
Hang 'em High
The Full Bug
Secrets

The Bad (IOW, the covers):
Dancing in the Streets (single worst Van Halen song ever)
Where Have all the Good Times Gone
Pretty Woman
Happy Trails

The Ugly (IOW, the one cover that doesn't suck)
Big Bad Bill

[Telefunky]

If anything, Big Bad Bill is the MOST interesting song in VH history because it's a snapshot of Ed and Al growing up, and where they got all that mad swing from... Jan Van Halen.

Name another rock band can just throw down serious swing jazz like that, and all the more surprising because the brothers only studied classical piano.

Michael Anthony is playing a stand-up bass and absolutely killin'. VERY few rock players can do that. Almost none, actually.
Eddie is comping chords with a feel and tone that rivals some legendary jazz cats.
Alex is playing brushes like the serious old school cats, and if you didn't know, that's a Tremendously difficult thing to do.
Roth is on top of his game here, any other rock singer would sound ridiculous in this genre.
And of course, Jan Van Halen blowing some of the hippest, baddest lines with a smoky tone and swing that's just 100% world class.

If you can think of a SINGLE rock band that could have pulled that off, please let me know.

[pete692]

Diver Down has the most hidden gems because Eddie convinced a whole generation of fans that it sucks, so many people avoided it. When I first sat down and gave it a listen, it just blew my mind. I really think Eddie felt like he was cheating with the covers, but they provided a fantastic launch pad for some of the best soloing of his entire career.

[Telefunky]

Diver Down has the most hidden gems because Eddie convinced a whole generation of fans that it sucks, so many people avoided it. When I first sat down and gave it a listen, it just blew my mind. I really think Eddie felt like he was cheating with the covers, but they provided a fantastic launch pad for some of the best soloing of his entire career.



Agreed 100%. Eddie's solo break on "Dancing In The Street" is one of his best. It effortlessly follows the changes and perfectly showcases his fluid, falling-down-the-stairs approach to phrasing. It's very stylistically reminiscent of his solo on "Somebody Get Me A Doctor"

[Zuma]

Lots of VH fans just hate...hate this album. There are a few duds, but also some great songs. Came out when I was in High School, life was good, hard for me to hate on this one. Not always big on the VH cover tunes, but I thought the into to Pretty Women made the song, at least for me.

[Kelly]

heh, wait til you get to "fair warning"...

[67blackcherry]

Diver Down - probably the worse DLR album, but still full of great stuff.
Dancing in the Streets - horrible song, probably one of Ed's best solo's.
Hang 'em High - great riff, I love how they're extending the solo section on the current tour.
Little Guitars - flawless.

Just wait until you get to Fair Warning.....

[jcs]

I think Roth sings great on 'Dancing in the Streets',so there!

[gtrdave]

I'm one of those weird people that really likes Diver Down.

'Course, I think Fair Warning is their best album ever, so what do I know...

[walterw]

ditto, and ditto.

diver down is a brilliant EP hidden inside an OK album.

and "dancing in the streets" is a hoot! eddie comes up with these otherworldly delay-syncopated analog synths, and dave slaps it onto a motown cover! that to me is the yin and yang of VH right there.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Fair warning was a very short album and in spite of having some of Van Halens best work, it had a few clunker/filler songs on it too. :red So, what they should have done was removed the clunkers from Fair Warning and added the gems from Diver Down and made one very long and very KILLER album. It may have been Van Halens best! :idea

In fact, I actually did this on a CD :) and it was so hot it melted my CD player :cry:


Where have all the good Times Gone?
Cathedral
Little Guitars
Hang 'em High
The Full Bug
Secrets
Mean Street
Sinner's Swing!
Hear About It Later
Unchained
So This is Love?

[hawkeye17]

I always thought Diver Down was underrated too. Cathedral is flat out one of the most creative and brilliant solo guitar pieces ever.

[Jube2550]

Diver Down was the only VH album in my vinyl collection that was in cherry condition and remained that way for many years. When it came out some friends and I would spin the opening to Where have all the Good Times Gone over and over and then stop. It was nothing like Fair Warning. The album was not "cool" enough like the early material, even the album cover was boring. Like how much more red could it be??

The album has grown on me over time with Little Guitars and Hang 'em High as standouts. Is the album under-rated, underappreciated, perhaps? Even the Mrs. likes Pretty Woman. I recall it was the only VH MTV video in 1982 and somewhat cool even if it was (multi-cultural western theme done by long-haired CA rockers) a bit weird.

FWQRDI7mTyw

[big mike]

There's a few bright moments but on whole it's pretty weak

Fair Warning on the other hand, should reach in and shake your soul

[Catoogie]

Big Bad Bill and Happy Trails are one of the main components of what made Van Halen so amazing. Depth and humor.

[bkd_guitarist]

I'm just impressed that the OP is secure enough to admit growing up on Culture Club and Wham. Maybe next he'll be admitting to a third nipple. ;)

Growing up for me was the same era but more rock...I was a big Van Hagar fan and received my early Van Halen indoctrination later in life. Diver Down is great, but I go back and forth between Fair Warning and VHII as to which is my favorite VH album.

[Psychotronic]

"Dancing In The Streets" was not intended as a cover, initially. Eddie had much of the music -- including the echoed riff -- finished, when Dave thought it would be a good idea to turn it into the "DITS" cover that is on the album. Apparently, he convinced Ted Templemen to side with him, and Eddie was not happy about it turning into a cover.

[Catoogie]

I played Culture Club songs in my first professional cover band. I learned a HUGE amount of what I know about arranging from dissecting those recordings. Transcribing the vocal harmonies on 'Karma Chameleon ' at 17 with a cassette deck made my ear STRONG. Roy Hay is no slouch.

[GlueMan]

I can't believe how many have slagged Big Bad Bill. It may not be in the same genre as the rest of their stuff, but it's a good song.

[67blackcherry]

I can't believe how many have slagged Big Bad Bill. It may not be in the same genre as the rest of their stuff, but it's a good song.

Yes - I can't think of any other hard rock band that could've pulled that off.
Zeppelin......I don't think so.
Aerosmith.....nah.
Queen.....perhaps.....but probably not.

[MKB]

I never could figure the hate for Diver Down, I do think it is my favorite VH album as it proves they do not take themselves very seriously. It has the best VH eighties giddy delight party vibe of any of their albums. I love every song on it, and it is still the only VH album I can regularly listen to from end to end.

Also it has the greatest note Ed ever played, the harmonic scream in Intruder. Wow. To this day I still play that note to folks as the best single note in rock.

It's at 1:11.

iJuv7cI8od4

[pete692]

I never could figure the hate for Diver Down, I do think it is my favorite VH album as it proves they do not take themselves very seriously. It has the best VH eighties giddy delight party vibe of any of their albums. I love every song on it, and it is still the only VH album I can regularly listen to from end to end.

Also it has the greatest note Ed ever played, the harmonic scream in Intruder. Wow. To this day I still play that note to folks as the best single note in rock.

It's at 1:11.

Eddie started the campaign of hate for Diver Down. He really viewed it as Dave's move into taking over the band and going straight pop. If only 1982 Eddie could hear some of the dreck Sammy would be singing for him 4 years later, maybe Eddie wouldn't have been so harsh on Diver Down.

[Fenderesq]

I agree with those that say it has the best "vibe" of any of their records--it just sounds like they are having fun and I don't know of it was the change in studios or what, but it has the BEST EVH tone and Little Guitars is my favorite VH tune and Where Have All The Good Times Gone is my favorite cover of theirs.

EVH talked smack about this record for a decade and a half and it became accepted that it "sucks", "isn't a real VH, record, its 1/2 covers etc".

Nonsense---its a smoking record. Even Dancing In The Streets has that cool riff and a ripping solo. And, I think it is so cool they got Jan Van Halen to play on it; I bet Eddie looks back and was glad he/they did that.

[83stratman]

I need to correct you!:hide There is NO FILLER on Fair Warning.

Fair warning was a very short album and in spite of having some of Van Halens best work, it had a few clunker/filler songs on it too. :red So, what they should have done was removed the clunkers from Fair Warning and added the gems from Diver Down and made one very long and very KILLER album. It may have been Van Halens best! :idea

In fact, I actually did this on a CD :) and it was so hot it melted my CD player :cry:


Where have all the good Times Gone?
Cathedral
Little Guitars
Hang 'em High
The Full Bug
Secrets
Mean Street
Sinner's Swing!
Hear About It Later
Unchained
So This is Love?

[83stratman]

Diver Down came out when I was in 6th grade. I had Fair Warning in 5th grade, along with I, II, and WACF.

I like Diver Down. I can listen to it straight through with no problem, but if someone put a gun to my head and told me I HAD to get rid of one VH record it would be Diver Down.

Before anyone notices I chose Diver Down to get rid of before any Sam Halen, note I don't consider 5150 through III Van Halen records.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I need to correct you!:hide There is NO FILLER on Fair Warning.



sorry, my bad :red


I meant 'dud's :rimshot

[bsteff666]

I love Diver Down. Always have. Its a little different...got some quirky moments...still love it.

I would love to hear them play Secrets on the current tour.

[donnievaz]

I'm one of those weird people that really likes Diver Down.

'Course, I think Fair Warning is their best album ever, so what do I know...

You're not alone brother, I feel exactly the same way. I bought DD the day it came out and wasn't disappointed in the least. Then again, covers don't bother me at all, in fact I love a good cover tune.

[DCAddy]

With the exception of Little Guitars(remember the mini Les Paul Ed played on the tour?), Diver Down IS a dud-Fair Warning is no better, and it only gets worse from there-These guys were my favorite band, bar none, in high school(81-85), we never missed 'em live, and they were a kick ass alternative to the doom and gloom of other favorites like Priest and Maiden-However, compare So This Is Love to D.O.A, Pretty Woman to Could This Be Magic, or Big Bad Bill to Romeo Delight-Ain't no f***ing comparison-VHs first three lps ruled-The following three had their kitchy charm, but to say they're great is only wishing the original band would've had more recorded output in six years-Of course, I'm only looking for killer songs, not the ultimate phased out guitar tone...

[BlackStrat_Fan]

Never thought of FAIR WARNING as having kitchy charm, but OK.

This was when I became a big fan. I remember walking with my friend to the record store to buy this one. "Pretty Woman" had been out for a while already as a single. I just remember that it was pop-like, but at least they were playing VH on the radio. Oh, and first concert too.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I like this album better than 1984. It can be debated which is better, but I always enjoy putting the headphones on and playing DD at work - 1984, eh.

[donnievaz]

With the exception of Little Guitars(remember the mini Les Paul Ed played on the tour?), Diver Down IS a dud-Fair Warning is no better, and it only gets worse from there-These guys were my favorite band, bar none, in high school(81-85), we never missed 'em live, and they were a kick ass alternative to the doom and gloom of other favorites like Priest and Maiden-However, compare So This Is Love to D.O.A, Pretty Woman to Could This Be Magic, or Big Bad Bill to Romeo Delight-Ain't no f***ing comparison-VHs first three lps ruled-The following three had their kitchy charm, but to say they're great is only wishing the original band would've had more recorded output in six years-Of course, I'm only looking for killer songs, not the ultimate phased out guitar tone...

Nothing quite like spouting your OPINION as fact.... :facepalm

[DCAddy]

Correct-Only my opinion-Never thought I needed to say IMHO or some such BS-Thought you guys were much smarter than that-If you think DD is great, 1984 must've really rocked yer socks off' huh-My first face palm-What a thrill...

[freedom's door]

"Hang "Em High" is my favorite VH track.
"Little Guitars" is definitely in my Top 10.

The rest of the album is hit and miss, but still a pretty good album IMO.

[mesa/boogieman]

Nothing quite like spouting your OPINION as fact.... :facepalm

Isn't that what we does on the internetz? :rimshot

[bilbal]

I have never liked 'Dancing in the Streets'.

I'm actually trying to decide which I dislike more... VH's version or The Dead's. Pretty sure I just hate the song, period.

[critter74]

Just curious- is the OP going in reverse order of discovery for the VH albums? Everybody keeps saying "wait until Fair Warning", but Fair Warning was released a year before Diver Down (Fair Warning- '81, Diver Down '82). So I'm a little confused why people keep telling the OP "Wait until..." if he's going in order of release...

Oh and OP, no seriously... wait until you hit Fair Warning. G*d damn that's a good album...

[monty]

I skip a couple of the tunes on my ipod, but there are some sweet tunes on this album. Hang 'em high FTW.

[mesa/boogieman]

Just curious- is the OP going in reverse order of discovery for the VH albums? Everybody keeps saying "wait until Fair Warning", but Fair Warning was released a year before Diver Down (Fair Warning- '81, Diver Down '82). So I'm a little confused why people keep telling the OP "Wait until..." if he's going in order of release...

Oh and OP, no seriously... wait until you hit Fair Warning. G*d damn that's a good album...

I'm going backwards sir :) Started with 1984 the other day.

Will get to Fair Warning this weekend.

[sahhas]

if i remember from interviews, you have to remember, VH came off tour, i think the record co. wanted a new single (to keep the VH name out there), they did 'pretty woman' , which was ed's suggestion b/c he liked the riff, they put it out, it actually climbs up the charts a bit, and then all of a sudden the record co. wants a whole album. i think the band was planning on taking some time off, and ed talked about this was rushed, made pretty quickly....

everytime i hear "intruder" i think it is just a great sounding intro to 'pretty woman'...and remember it was made b/c the "bizarre vid" they made was longer than the song...

there are some gems on that album, and yea, dancin' in the streets isn't my fave, but big bad bill has a little charm to it, really looking back at some old time songs and sounds....

[Brian D]

I always liked Diver Down. VH1 blew my mind from a guitar perspective, but Spanish Fly/Little Guitars was my favorite VH tune at the time. And yes, I remember the mini Les Paul! He even pulled it out on the "1984" tour.

Eddie started the campaign of hate for Diver Down. He really viewed it as Dave's move into taking over the band and going straight pop...Great insight, although the stuff that he came up with on 1984 (which I also love) could easily be seen as "pop", as well.

Cathedral is a beautiful piece of composition and technique.

[pete692]

I always liked Diver Down. VH1 blew my mind from a guitar perspective, but Spanish Fly/Little Guitars was my favorite VH tune at the time. And yes, I remember the mini Les Paul! He even pulled it out on the "1984" tour.

Great insight, although the stuff that he came up with on 1984 (which I also love) could easily be seen as "pop", as well.

Cathedral is a beautiful piece of composition and technique.

Nobody ever said that the thought process of a rock star had to be consistent. Reminds me of Clapton being frustrated in the Yardbirds and leaving because they were becoming too "pop". Then he goes on to Cream, rocks out for a few years, and summarily spends the majority of the next 40 years making pop music.

[sahhas]

this:
"Clapton being frustrated in the Yardbirds and leaving because they were becoming too "pop". Then he goes on to Cream, rocks out for a few years, and summarily spends the majority of the next 40 years making pop music. "

it's funny i just listened to best of cream on vacation last week, and when listening to those songs they sound so much like 60s pop. my wife when she heard the songs was laughing a bit...but honestly, the guitar on it does sound so good at times....sort of OT to the vh: diver down, just a side note...

[FeloniousBishop]

Agreed 100%. Eddie's solo break on "Dancing In The Street" is one of his best. It effortlessly follows the changes and perfectly showcases his fluid, falling-down-the-stairs approach to phrasing. It's very stylistically reminiscent of his solo on "Somebody Get Me A Doctor"

I always thought so too.

[83stratman]

Well there you have it! I would take So This is Love over DOA all day. In fact So This is Love is one of my fav VH tunes, and has been since I first heard Fair Warning back in '81.

With the exception of Little Guitars(remember the mini Les Paul Ed played on the tour?), Diver Down IS a dud-Fair Warning is no better, and it only gets worse from there-These guys were my favorite band, bar none, in high school(81-85), we never missed 'em live, and they were a kick ass alternative to the doom and gloom of other favorites like Priest and Maiden-However, compare So This Is Love to D.O.A, Pretty Woman to Could This Be Magic, or Big Bad Bill to Romeo Delight-Ain't no f***ing comparison-VHs first three lps ruled-The following three had their kitchy charm, but to say they're great is only wishing the original band would've had more recorded output in six years-Of course, I'm only looking for killer songs, not the ultimate phased out guitar tone...

[tripp2k]

heh, wait til you get to "fair warning"...

My favorite VH album by far. Yes, 1 and 2 were groundbreaking but FW is what crystallized VH as a "pick 10 albums you'd take with you to Siberia where you'll be for the next 40 years" album.

[DCAddy]

You're right-You win-I was quite harsh to Fair Warning-Sorry-But, it still ain't the masterpiece you cats are making it out to be-Some of us prefer the silk shirted, stax wearing. black and yellow stripe VH to the spandex and chaps red white and black stripe VH-No biggie-Still, if you want SoThis Is Love over DOA, maybe we better not do lunch-Ha....HAVEYOUSEENJUNIORSGRADES????

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

You're right-You win-I was quite harsh to Fair Warning-Sorry-But, it still ain't the masterpiece you cats are making it out to be-Some of us prefer the silk shirted, stax wearing. black and yellow stripe VH to the spandex and chaps red white and black stripe VH-No biggie-Still, if you want SoThis Is Love over DOA, maybe we better not do lunch-Ha....HAVEYOUSEENJUNIORSGRADES????



wooT ! .... someone who writes as badly as me! ! 1111!! :bong

[critter74]

You're right-You win-I was quite harsh to Fair Warning-Sorry-But, it still ain't the masterpiece you cats are making it out to be-Some of us prefer the silk shirted, stax wearing. black and yellow stripe VH to the spandex and chaps red white and black stripe VH-No biggie-Still, if you want SoThis Is Love over DOA, maybe we better not do lunch-Ha....HAVEYOUSEENJUNIORSGRADES????

I love Fair Warning- but yea- "DOA" is better than "So This Is Love". I'm with you on that...

In fact "II" probably just out-squeaks "Fair Warning"- if nothing else because FW, as great as it is, is dark as shit.

"They found a dirty faced kid in a garbage can...."

[83stratman]

Hey don't get me wrong. VHII is my second fav VH record.

[DCAddy]

Wow-Just read my own posts-I apologize-Never try to critique when knee deep in Bass Ale-Now it's Sunday, and I'm having a hard time buckling up with Jesus-I guess my whole point was that I saw VH on the WACF tour, and then again on the DD tour and remember saying "WTF?"-It was like going from gritty black and white to day glo in two short years-And unfortunately, the records also seemed to reflect this change-At the time, it didn't seem like evolution, but, crass sellout-Probably shouldn't have meant so much, but they (and AC/DC) were the ones we could COUNT ON to kick unmitigated ass when the hair bands laid siege...

[critter74]

FW has the feeling of the band at the time- moody, dark, separated from what they were before. VH was drinking and coking it up a lot- Diamond Dave was in full blown coked out ego mode, and pretty much neither could stand to be in the room together. I've read Eddie almost considers FW a solo album because he recorded almost all of the guitar alone, without input from anybody but Alex and the engineer.

VH II was still the light hearted cocaine, whiskey & titties vibe of a club VH. They were still the young bucks on the scene- all cock & balls and swagger. And able to back it up. Without doubt.

FW was the signs of a band that is no longer naive, the typical pratfalls of stardom, success and ego sinking in and everybody starting to believe their own bullshit (except VH who ironically seemed to think he was an imposter waiting to be discovered. It's hard to live in the shadow of your idols. Even when people are telling you you're the rock guitar savior. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.).

Obviously I know none of this first hand but it all seems to be the case from what I have read in interviews.

But the art out of the 2 era seems to reflect the band at those times...

[DCAddy]

Nice summation, critter-I just know that when I plunked down my $7.98 for anything VH after WACF, I felt gypped-And not by the LPs total times, I always thought the group's records were the perfect length-I guess FW does seem a little detatched, whereas the first three sounded like live recordings-Maybe that's the hitch...