Rat's and volume settings

[bgood]

Rat fans - have a question. I have a made in USA rat SN around 300K if I remember right that I have applied the Monte Allums mod recently (nice mod BTW). Both prior and post mod the damn thing just has sooooo much volume. With the mods there are a couple of switchable options via the toggle that brings the overall output down but I still find that I can barely crack the volume knob. I can't imagine anyone using the volume above the first 1/12th of it's range because of the volume jump. This is with relatively low settings on the distortion knob too.

Is this common with Rats? Wondering if my volume pot is completely shot. I'm finding it hard to keep the pedal at unity plus a little extra umph for live work. I step on it and it just blasts off - in a bad way unless the volume is all the way down - the usable range is very hard to dial in.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I can't claim to be a rat fan, but some thoughts:

Sometimes that occurs with a low output pickup and a fairly compressed pedal. I would wonder how high your distortion is set?

A possible mod, if the volume pot isn't shot, might be adding a resistor that shortens the range. Someone with more tech experience can say if this makes sense and what value might work.

[telepunk]

Hmm. This sounds weird. I have a modded Rat 2 and I have to crank my volume knob to around 9 o'clock to get it a little louder than my overdrive pedals. Maybe the volume pot is bad?

[A440]

sounds unusual and may be due to the mods. I usually run the vol around 12 to 1 o'clock into a clean amp.

[bgood]

Thanks guys. Definitely not due to the mods the behavior was the same prior. My distortion levels are also in the first 1/4 of the range so pretty low by Rat standards. I pretty much use the pedal stacked behind my KOT for light distortion/heavy OD but the issue is not related to the stacking as it happens with the pedal as the only effect in the chain too.

I'll mess with it a bit and see if I can get some measurements off that volume pot as it moves - I think if I put my meter on it and rotated it up I would see how it is working. My guess right now is that the pot might be bad. I bought it used so I don't know how it was treated prior to me getting my hands on it. One thing I haven't checked is whether or not the volume continues to increase as the pot goes up - that should give me a clue also.

This pedal sounds great with my gear I just want to get more usable control out of that volume. It's almost like the volume controls on my Tweed Deluxe - all or none, except in that case "all" is what I want :-)

[Jules-RM]

Usually Rats stock have a unity volume somewhere around 2 o'clock.

[voorhiessa]

Here's my usual settings.

Drive, 11 oclock
Filter, 1 oclock
Level, 11 oclock

alas, no mods......

[timmat]

I have an original 1984 whiteface rat, and I have to nearly dime the volume to get unity. Any thoughts on that? Anyone know if the old ones are just this way, or do I have an issue? The tone and all other functionality is still there.

[ianrodia]

I have an original 1984 whiteface rat, and I have to nearly dime the volume to get unity. Any thoughts on that? Anyone know if the old ones are just this way, or do I have an issue? The tone and all other functionality is still there.

I have an '85 wf rat and that doesn't sound quite right. I don't think the volume has a ton of boost...I think unity for mine is somewhere around 1 o'clock or so?

OP - see above. Something is not right with your volume. Mine is barely on before 10 o'clock.

[ianrodia]

Here's my usual settings.

Drive, 11 oclock
Filter, 1 oclock
Level, 11 oclock

alas, no mods......

Yup. These are pretty much my settings too. I use the filter between 10 - 1 o'clock to give it more edge or smooth it out a bit also.

[dirtytony]

if it helps my '86 (greatest dist/od ever) can be set easily to match the volume when off without any jumps

[ianrodia]

(greatest dist/od ever)

Isn't it though? Many others have come and gone on my board, but...

It just has a certain something to it. It's the only dirt pedal I really use now since I downsized to a PT Jr. No real desire to look for other distortions either.

[dirtytony]

Isn't it though? Many others have come and gone on my board, but...

It just has a certain something to it. It's the only dirt pedal I really use now since I downsized to a PT Jr. No real desire to look for other distortions either.

yeah absolutely... its the only one that doesnt mess your tone with compression and that makes your harmonics come out plenty&rich, you kill in a band with a RAT
Im partial to Whitefaces, dont want to be a gear snob (its far from what I am) but being all RATs great I find the whiteface circuit to have the perfect balance between the dark Big Boxes and the bright '87 ongoing ones

[Theroyalconsort]

It sounds odd to me.... I think your volume pot is wrong/broken

[Daka3]

BIG LOVE:

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa445/daka333/RAT.jpg

I don't have my setting as shown in the picture, rather it's like this on my '86 BF RAT:

Distortion: 10 o' clock Filter: 3 o' clock Volume: Almost dimed. This gives me a solid boost into my DLS MKII, raising the volume and, of course, adding considerable amounts of gain.

[voorhiessa]

I like using the filter set to where it's a little sharp for me. That way I can roll back on the guitar volume to soften it up a tad or crank it for a cutting solo.

Such an incredible versitale pedal! One of my favorite guitarists uses 2, and I'm consdiering going that route.

[spentron]

Could you possibly have no diodes? Regular diode clippers should make the volume right around the same as other pedals with them and no volume boost after: Tube Screamer, DS-1, later Dist+, etc.

Or perhaps a reverse audio taper pot, used for the Filter on Rats with least filter = CW, vs. the original backwards Filter which used regular audio taper.

ADD: so the question is, is the SWEEP of the volume wrong or the range? Need to try turning it all the way up and comparing to barely on, are they that much different? If not, faulty pot or broken ground path on it. If all the way up is some insanely high level, no diodes. You can also try measuring resistance right across the output (switched on, power optional), should be about 10K with volume center and only a couple K near the bottom.

[aflynt]

Yeah. Something is definitely not right with your pedal. Maybe a shorted pot or diodes.

-Aaron

[wallinbb]

Usually Rats stock have a unity volume somewhere around 2 o'clock.

This is true with my Keeley Rat.

[Bluedano1]

Usually Rats stock have a unity volume somewhere around 2 o'clock.

Doesn't that depend upon where the Gain knob is set? Or put another way where is your Gain knob set (if Rat Vol. is at 2:00 clock) to produce unity with clean amp (Rat bypassed)- just want to compare with GFS Brownie ( aRat clone w/ the LM 308N chip) thanks!

[bgood]

thanks for the help, resistance on the output is 10K when the volume knob is just below 9:00. At 12:00 it reads 80K and at full up it reads 93.6K.

Would that indicate bad diodes, bad pot? The volume pot reads 96K between the center and left hand lug at zero and 0 at full.

[bgood]

can I test the diodes with the meter to see if they are OK - how would I know? This Rat was modded via Monte Allums mod which puts a 3 position toggle switch in to switch between diodes and LED's for different voicings and then a middle position which I think is more in line with the unmodded pedal. The super high volume issue was present before the mods and after and it doesn't matter which position the mod toggle is in although the middle position is louder - expected behavior per the mod documentation.

I keep coming back to the volume pot. The volume pretty much max's out around 1:00. Measures across the range are between the left lug and center lug are:

full off - 93K
10:00 - 43K
mid point - 16K
2:00 - 7.7K
full on - 0K

[kirs]

Values seem about right. It's a 100K pot with audio taper. Still, something is very wrong with your pedal.

[bgood]

Pulled the POT. It's designated as a C100K. Is that what should be in there?

[aflynt]

C100K would seem to indicate anti-log (reverse audio) taper which may be the problem. They are supposed to be a straight 100KA (audio taper).

-Aaron

[eddiegillan]

Distortion: 11 o'clock, Filter: noon, Volume: 1 o'clock.

[bgood]

Thanks - well I think I got to the bottom of it. Called ProCo and got some good info. They were a big help and confirmed that these are the correct pots and also informed me that Rat's from the era mine is from had a recall due to problems with these mini pots. Proco is sending me 3 replacement pots - great customer service considering the pedal is over 10 years old, I'm not the original owner and it's been modded. Hopefully this does the trick and I'll have a more usable control range to work with after a little soldering.

[rodstewart]

That's awesome, way to go ProCo.