If Walter Becker dropped out of Steely Dan....

[StevenA]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought

[weshunter]

wouldn't matter to me -- although i do appreciate his part in creating those songs, at this point, the songs are all made and they don't need him in the band to play anything.

[A-Bone]

Isn't Becker a significant contributor as songwriter, arranger, and producer? I would not minimize his importance to the ultimate product of Steely Dan.

[esoteric pete]

they would still sound like the dan at this point..

[bloozetubes]

they would sound like a Donald Fagen solo record

[TNJ]

Walter has been essential to the Steely Dan sound.
He has written a ton of lyrics over the years to their tunes,
and his guitar playing (admittedly not his strong suit) has lent
its own touch on some of their tunes (like 'Aja' for example).
His bass playing/composing alone is on a totally different level.
He's a fabulous bassist...very much unsung at that position...considering
who they have used in the studio.

S./
j

[korby]

Muse for Donald wouldn't work .

[rokpunk]

just as long as steely doesn't quit the band.

[Jujo]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought

It would matter a sh!t ton. I cannot explain why to those that don't already see this. WB is very important and he CONTINUES to make tremendous contributions.

[big mike]

It would matter a sh!t ton. I cannot explain why to those that don't already see this. WB is very important and he CONTINUES to make tremendous contributions.


This.

Jeeez.

can't believe one would even suggest it. He's Fagan's foil.

[zorak]

He is a major contributor to the music that is Steely Dan! His playing isn't good enough for you, OP? LOL! Jon Herrington isn't even the best sideman they have ever had. He's damn good, but compared to Drew Zingg, Wayne Krantz and even Larry Carlton, recently, he's been overshadowed.
I know it's been debated before, since they have had some of the most unbelievable soloists play on their albums and tours, but I would offer these solos as evidence that he's a bad mofo:

Black Friday
Home At Last
Josie
FM

just to name a few. Those are tremendous lines from a very talented musician. And his bass playing is quite tasty, too.

[fetchmybeer]

Can't have one without the other. Not quite Lennon-McCartney, but still...

[Rollin]

Agreed, Walter Becker is a huge part of Steely Dan. It wouldn't be the same without him. I was very impressed by seeing them and hearing how great his guitar playing was, great phrasing. We all know he's an incredible bass player. It just wouldn't be Steely Dan without him.

[tvegas99]

when they perform live I find WB kind of a nuisance
I've seen them several times over the past few years and he's always doing this Jerry Garcia non-stop noodling
No offense to JG fans...
I find WB mostly annoying in a live situation... although I realize he's very integral to the whole

[StevenA]

when they perform live I find WB kind of a nuisance
I've seen them several times over the past few years and he's always doing this Jerry Garcia non-stop noodling
No offense to JG fans...
I find WB mostly annoying in a live situation... although I realize he's very integral to the whole

Uh, oh. Absolutely needs clarification. I meant only during live shows. SD could never go into the studio without him.

[dunara]

they would sound like a Donald Fagen solo record

This.

His guitar playing is very much of the 'take a risk and see if it works' school, which personally, I find quite exhillarating when it works. You could never say that his guitar playing was 'precise' or even at times, reliable; but hey - you could say the same about Richard Thomson, Robbie Robertson, Jimmy Page even. He noodles to his heart's content over the band's music at live shows; but let's be honest - he's earned the right.....

[tone4days]

i wish he'd solo less on SD studio tunes and let herrington, or others, really wow us ... his angular noodling just gets too predictable and doesnt add to the song

i'll offer this opinion about his soloing though, he gets pretty darn good tone though - a bit one trick, but its a heckuva trick

[Bodhisattva]

Agreed, live Walt needs to chill on the noodling but like with most nostalgia acts, I just like seeing the composers and knowing that they were there when the band still had an edge.
Still fun to see Diet Dan. Watching them play AJA live has been one of the highlights of my concert going experiences.

[tiktok]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought

Fagan once said "Walter can't start a song, and I can't finish one, so we work well together."

[StevenA]

Jon Herrington isn't even the best sideman they have ever had. He's damn good, but compared to Drew Zingg, Wayne Krantz and even Larry Carlton, recently, he's been overshadowed.


Herington has been their go to guy for 12 years, longer than any of the others. Becker/ Fagen must see something in him.

[KHAN]

In the 70's he was essential. I like the Fagen solo albums as much as modern Dan. But it's not "Steely Dan" without him.

[Rockledge]

Isn't Becker a significant contributor as songwriter, arranger, and producer? I would not minimize his importance to the ultimate product of Steely Dan.

Exactly. Arrangers and producers are who make bands. A good producer can take shit and make it magic. Bad production can make even the best effort lame beyond yawn.

Aside from the fact Steely Dan is two guys. Everyone else is a temporary hired gun.

[Madison]

I have a great deal of respect for Walter Becker, but agree, if he called in sick for a show tomorrow there would be little negative impact musically speaking. The show must go on. Donald's absence would of course be a different story.

[Chops]

Don't get wrong as some of their albums have always meant a lot to me but at this point does it matter?

[Blauserk]

A band is the sum of its parts, and I suppose that's true even when the band is two people. If I could travel back to 1980, I know I'd rather see the Beatles than solo Paul McCartney play Beatles songs, even if Macca's hired guns could perfectly mimic the records and Paul's was the only voice on the song.

[dunara]

Likewise the upcoming Beach Boys reunion. They're never never going to be anything like as good as the Wondermints (Brian Wilson's band for the last decade), but hey - it's the real guys..... Or at least the surviving ones.

[burningyen]

Their gear insurance bill would drop by half.

[ddeand]

It wouldn't be Steely Dan, then. Sorta like dropping either Hatfield or Medley out of The Righteous Brothers - it just becomes a solo act. Having seen them a couple years ago, the band ( for me) is still Becker and Fagen surrounded by a coterie of gifted musicians. Those two are still "Steely Dan".

[BCnSTL]

(above). This.

[Raygun Gothic]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought


Perish the thought!


You do realize that it was Walter that first identified GAS: http://www.steelydan.com/gas.html

[Guitar55]

when they perform live I find WB kind of a nuisance
I've seen them several times over the past few years and he's always doing this Jerry Garcia non-stop noodling
No offense to JG fans...
I find WB mostly annoying in a live situation... although I realize he's very integral to the whole

When I saw them in September, I thought that he surprisingly kept the noodling to a minimum.

[kurt1981]

Agreed, Walter was essential to the albums the Dan has made, but when I saw them live he was sort of riding on top of the rest of the band adding little filler lines that were kind of in the way of the groove of the band. and man, the guy had more gear on stage than just about anyone I've seen live, especially considering his tone didn't change the whole night. Take a look at primier guitar's rig rundown for him to see what I mean just overkill and looks like he's just flaunting the gear. Still, none of the classic alubms would sound like they do without him.

[Fred Farkus]

they would sound like a Donald Fagen solo record

The Nightfly sounds like a really good Steely Dan record, to me.

[blueserv]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought


Good thing Becker wasn't in the Eagles...

[2HBStrat]

Walter has been essential to the Steely Dan sound.
He has written a ton of lyrics over the years to their tunes,
and his guitar playing (admittedly not his strong suit) has lent
its own touch on some of their tunes ......

Agreed, live Walt needs to chill on the noodling ......

When I saw them in September, I thought that he surprisingly kept the noodling to a minimum.

Wow, I can't believe those who don't think he is a fine guitarist!!! He does have a tendency to over-noodle, but.....he's probably earned that right!

[chrisr777]

Just as a point of information to the zombies in this thread.


Becker does sing.


He is also an integral part of the sound and, more importantly, the humor of the band.

[GovernorSilver]

The Nightfly sounds like a really good Steely Dan record, to me.

To me, it doesn't sound like a Steely Dan record. The sophisticated harmonies and impeccable musicianship are there. However, the lyrics in Nightfly are too romantic and/or optimistic to belong on a true Steely Dan record. :roll

Becker adds the dark touches that differentiate a solo Fagen record from a Steely Dan record. I get that we see him onstage just playing some guitar and thus it would lead some of believe he's just a dumb guitarist, but his importance to the songwriting and production processes is vital enough that there's no Steely Dan without him.

[tiktok]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a thought

Fagen: "It works well--Walter can't start a song and I can't finish one."

[Average Joe]

Even just focusing on his playing - anyone who's responsible for the leads on Black Friday, Pretzel Logic, Bad Sneakers and Josie have no reason to be ashamed. OK he can be noodly live, but even so.

And I agree about the lyrics. Fagen on his own was never as acerbic, a lot of that must be WB

[The NightHawk]

Never saw SD and I understand how talented they both are, and integral to the SD sound. I did see Fagan a couple years ago touring with Boz Scaggs and Michael McDonald, and I was not impressed with him at all as a live performer. Just my humble opinion...not trying to rile up the ranks. Is this typical of Fagan? He seemed very uncomfortable, even awkward on the stage. They took turns singing some of their hits, and whenever it was Fagan's turn it was like a cue to hit the restroom. Has he always been this way? If so, no wonder they never toured much.:dunno

[chrisr777]

Never saw SD and I understand how talented they both are, and integral to the SD sound. I did see Fagan a couple years ago touring with Boz Scaggs and Michael McDonald, and I was not impressed with him at all as a live performer. Just my humble opinion...not trying to rile up the ranks. Is this typical of Fagan? He seemed very uncomfortable, even awkward on the stage. They took turns singing some of their hits, and whenever it was Fagan's turn it was like a cue to hit the restroom. Has he always been this way? If so, no wonder they never toured much.:dunno

I saw that tour and it was not typical of Fagan on stage. Though I can't agree with you on his songs, they were great. However, during a Steely Dan show it is Becker who does a lot of the talking.

[Chrome Dinette]

So, what is the favorite WS Burroughs novel of everyone posting in this thread, and why?

[chrisr777]

So, what is the favorite WS Burroughs novel of everyone posting in this thread, and why?


Tarzan


Oh wait, wrong Burroughs.

[GovernorSilver]

Pellucidar

[Zingeroo]

This.

Jeeez.

can't believe one would even suggest it. He's Fagan's foil.

I guess TECHNICALLY Fagan could carry on and play the tunes with hired guns, but what's the point? It would be like every other casino revival act with only one original member, usually the roadie...

[stratotastic]

Just as a point of information to the zombies in this thread.


Becker does sing.


He is also an integral part of the sound and, more importantly, the humor of the band.

I remember him singing Hatian Divorce on the EMG tour being one of the highlights of the show. It was just the right touch.

[Lucidology]

Isn't Becker a significant contributor as songwriter, arranger, and producer? I would not minimize his importance to the ultimate product of Steely Dan.

Right ... also ... I for one really dig his sparse kind of straight ahead stratty/quacky playing ... his classic Sadowsky tone.
And even though I love John's playing in Steely Dan ... IMO a lot of other cat's fit the spot much, much better ...
Drew Zing for one ...!!

[ChampReverb]

So, what is the favorite WS Burroughs novel of everyone posting in this thread, and why?

Naked Lunch

[lhallam]

Luv the sardonic humor WB brings to the group.

I thought the biggest failing of the "Two Against Nature" release was too many Becker gtr solos but a sprinkling of his playing like on the other releases is wonderful stuff.

[MollyPolly]

...would it matter
He doesn't sing, and Herington can make him all but disappear.

just a fail

fixed that for ya...

let's take this one by one:

1. would it matter? It would only matter to the extent that exactly 1/2 of the creative force of the band would be gone. As has been pointed out, go listen to any of Fagen's solo stuff, and you'll hear what would happen if Walter went AWOL. In fact, I happen to think Walter is mostly responsible for the snarky, irreverent, sardonic attitude of the band. A song like 'Cousin Dupree' is a good example. Fagen never would have come up with that one.

2. He doesn't sing. Well, he doesn't sing much, that's true. But he does sing, and quite well IMHO. I absolutely LOVE his '11 Tracks' record--even notwithstanding the canned drums. I hope he sings more in the future, because Fagen's voice seems to be fading a bit recently.

3. Herington can make him all but disappear. Absolutely no fracking way. Herrington is a fine musician, and a competent improviser/soloist, but there is a HUGE difference between what Herrington brings v. what Walter brings. Walter is a formidable creative force on so many levels--composition, lyrics, arrangement, production. Not to mention his outstanding bass playing. And as others have mentioned, his guitar stylings over the years have been some of the most memorable in R&R history.

as good a player as Herrington is, he never could have come up with the opening riff to Hey Ninteen, or the solo in Bad Sneakers.

I think anyone who feels that Steely Dan could continue without Walter doesn't really get it. Yes, they could continue touring and playing their catalog, but so could any competent cover band.

[mockoman]

He could form a band with Andrew Ridgeley.

[TNJ]

I'm a Becker fan, as I've already stated.
I dig his solo projects, too.
Check out:
11 Tracks of Whack
Circus Money

For example:

ExfUs-_P13c

A69RuFqvflY

S.
j

[squeally dan]

I'll never leave the band

[Bassomatic]

This.

Jeeez.

can't believe one would even suggest it. He's Fagan's foil.

This squared.

[GuitarsFromMars]

This will never happen.

Never.

[KHAN]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2203/walternoodle.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/walternoodle.jpg/)

;)

[2leod]

I think it's just a wonderful thing everyone gets to make up their own opinions - just great!

[phoenix 7]

To me, it doesn't sound like a Steely Dan record. The sophisticated harmonies and impeccable musicianship are there. However, the lyrics in Nightfly are too romantic and/or optimistic to belong on a true Steely Dan record. :roll

I agree. Nightfly has Fagan's vocals and superb production like a Steely Dan record. But it also has that ironic 1940's thing going on and less guitar. Becker's absence is audible for me.

[Occam]

What a weird thread. The Yankees and Red Sox constantly spend tons of money adding "better talent" and yet can't seem to win. The Giants have won 2 out of the last 3 world series because their chemistry is more than their talent. Bands rely on chemistry more than they rely on top musicians.