Am I Doing It Wrong? Back an Forth instead of Side to Side?

[HenryAdams]

So the vibrato thread below made me question a staple of my technique: vibrato. I've always done it kinda like a violinist, really quickly wiggling up and down the string between the two frets. It' worked, but it's also kinda hard because 1) I feel like I have to lock my elbow and shake the hell out of my lower arm. It's hard to move anywhere fast, and 2) I can't, for the life of me, vibrato when I've bent up a note.

But after reading the thread below, it seems like I'm doing it wrong, like I need to move back and forth between the fret, mini up and down bends. I've started trying it this way, and there's way more control, but I can't get anywhere near the vibrato speed.

Someone set me straight.

[JonR]

So the vibrato thread below made me question a staple of my technique: vibrato. I've always done it kinda like a violinist, really quickly wiggling up and down the string between the two frets. It' worked, but it's also kinda hard because 1) I feel like I have to lock my elbow and shake the hell out of my lower arm. It's hard to move anywhere fast, and 2) I can't, for the life of me, vibrato when I've bent up a note.

But after reading the thread below, it seems like I'm doing it wrong, like I need to move back and forth between the fret, mini up and down bends. I've started trying it this way, and there's way more control, but I can't get anywhere near the vibrato speed.

Someone set me straight.The parallel, violin-style vibrato works well (I've found) on nylon strings, not so well on steel.
Moving somewhere fast shouldn't be an issue, because it's only really worth doing on long notes at slowish tempos anyway (IMO).

I can't do the transverse vibrato (parallel to frets) too well myself, but I suspect the speed you need will come with practice.

(Irritatingly, I can do the necessary wrist rotation fast enough with my right hand; and I discovered that B B King, the master of it, is actually a lefty playing righty, so that is his "good" hand doing it. Which doesn't explain how orthodox players do it well, of course. I mean, other than practising it for long enough... :rolleyes:)

[russintexas]

That vibrato would pay off handsomely if you just put a slide on your finger...

[stevel]

The parallel, violin-style vibrato works well (I've found) on nylon strings, not so well on steel.

Yes, this is actually how classical guitarists vibrato.

It can be done on electric, especially on trem-equipped guitars with a floating tailpiece as the "push/pull" on the string will actually have some "give" to it. On any other fixed bridges, you're literally pushing and pulling on the string lengthwise meaning it has to give - or rather you have to push/pull hard enough to get a decrease/increase in tension - which is a little easier on the wound strings since there's something to "grip".

Steve

[celticelk]

I've always used classical-style vibrato on (fixed-bridge) electrics, but I prefer a pretty subtle vibrato and almost never vibrato bent notes.

[HenryAdams]

well, ok, this is setting my mind at ease. I was really paying attention to my unconscious technique the other day (!), and I do the classical vibrato all along. like celticelk said, it's pretty subtle, but there is movement there. Not the really liquid Hendrix/clapton vibrato, but just enough motions to give it character.

Now I'll work on the bent vibrato.

And yeas, texas russ, my vibrato style sounds pretty good with the ol' brass slide and open E.

[Structo]

BB King made a career out of it.

[gennation]

I use quite a few different vibrato techniques based on the style of music I'm playing.

I used the vertical/up and down method for rock and blues gigs/tunes from a narrow to a wide vibrato. I also use the parallel/left and right method when I don't want to alter the pitch, or at least as little as possible, this is usually when I'm in "less rock" type situations.

I find that the difficulty of the horizontal/parallel/classical/left to right method is not so much a thing between steel or nylon string but more between thinner and heavier strings.

I have 10's on my LP and I can tell a difference between the E and B strings which its kind of difficult to do, and the G and D string where it's much easier, and the A and E being pretty easy.

Of the other hand, I have 12's on my semi-hollow body/jazz box and it's fairly easy to make it sound good on any string. (I've use round wound and flat wound on it and haven't found any different between those either)

HenryAdams, I find a lot of people have an issue adding vibrato to a bent note. For me the vertical/up and down method always worked best. With students I teach them the mechanics of many vibrato technique various ways. But for adding vibrato to a bent note I have them sit down with their electric guitar with just enough volume and distortion on their amp to create a solid tone of feedback. Then I show them how to push and pull the string to "milk the string" into getting some vibe out of a single note. I also use this same method to teach them how to coax or conjure up the usable notes between the frets and let the overtones help you find the notes in between so to speak.

Try it, get some feedback going, bend the string, push it up slowly, then bring it down slowly letting the thing scream to all the rock gods in heaven. Then bend it and start making smaller moves/adjustments to where you get two noticeable notes that are pretty much the same but just the slightest bit different, and train your and to work between that subtle difference. That will help you gain control over the bent string. Then work it to be fast and faster and you have the basic of adding vibrato to a bent note.

As examples...

This one has a lot of the "not so pitch affecting" vibrato, it's a mix of both vertical and horizontal techniques to get the quality of the vibrato I believe the note should have, but there is really no wide vibrato here, just subtleties added to the notes:

2CrXzhA3Vbg

This is an example of all vertical vibrato, including a lot of bent-string vibrato...there are no subtleties here, just an onslaught ;)

LqTbrViYuhM

[BCnSTL]

I'm obsessive-compulsive about lots of things - vibrato is one of them.
If the wiggle isn't in a smooth multiple of the underlying rhythm - it's like fingernails-on-a-chalkboard to me (that goes for vocal vibrato as well).

My single note, unbent string, vibrato is usually passable. Double-stops and bent-string vibrato can sometimes pass muster (barely) but often not. My aversion to non-rhythmic vibrato is so severe, that I strongly prefer floating trems so I can add the vibrato with my right hand where my left hand fails me.

It's a form of cheating, I know. I KNOW! I'M WORKING ON IT!

Lots of s l o w b e n d i n g & s l o w v i b r a t o whilst listening to a click. Painful, but such is the toll of this particular ferryman.

[BCnSTL]

DUDE! YOU'RE MIKE DODGE!

Giving you a humble shout-out for the quick-n-dirty cop-the-Jimmy-Herring vibe TAB I found on your site (via this most excellent forum).
Some excellent stuff there, I'm struggling to work out phrases where it sounds like it's "resolving" satisfactorily, but I'm having a blast.


Thanks man!!

[Jahn]

I've always used classical-style vibrato on (fixed-bridge) electrics, but I prefer a pretty subtle vibrato and almost never vibrato bent notes.

that's me too. in fact the only time i do very noticeable vibrato is when i hit a chord and want to get a surfy sustained warble out of it by lightly using a bigbsy or a some such device, or even shaking the whole darn neck to do it if there's no vibrato unit.

[gennation]

DUDE! YOU'RE MIKE DODGE!

Giving you a humble shout-out for the quick-n-dirty cop-the-Jimmy-Herring vibe TAB I found on your site (via this most excellent forum).
Some excellent stuff there, I'm struggling to work out phrases where it sounds like it's "resolving" satisfactorily, but I'm having a blast.


Thanks man!!

Don't mean to interrupt this thread but...

Yep, that's me. Thanks for using the lessons!

If you want some help with the phrasing send me a message and we can work through some stuff. I have some things that will help you for sure.

I plan on updating the Herring/Diminished thread with tab and notation and audio someday, but just last night I posted a new Jimmy Herring lick in that "Vibe" thread. It's a group of arps found on the Lincoln Memorial album. Check it out :) http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/some-thoughts-on-copping-a-jimmy-herring-vibe-t6.html (go to the bottom of the thread)

Sorry for the butt-in.

[Stormface]

dCuGZ7JwpEU

Here is my teacher showing how he does it. It's how I've been working on it as well. It sounds much better than how I had been doing it, which was a combo between the violinist style and up-down style.

[tweedster]

dCuGZ7JwpEU

Here is my teacher showing how he does it. It's how I've been working on it as well. It sounds much better than how I had been doing it, which was a combo between the violinist style and up-down style.


And that, boys and girls, is how it's done. Excellent playing & teaching.

I went to the you tube site - It's a fellow named Jerry Baiden, who teaches out of Cupertino.

Man, I wish I could find a teacher like that in central Jersey.

[Stormface]

He's a great teacher. I've only been with him for a couple of months now but it's been great... I hope I can stick with him for a couple of years. He's been playing forever and knows how to kick my ass when I need it. He constantly points out my bad habits (12 years playing, self-taught) and I've seen massive improvement since I've been practicing under him.

[mjm59]

I never thought that there was any "mystery" to the B.B. King style of single note vibrato, until a very good guitar player that I know stopped me one day and asked how I was doing that.... As best as I can describe the motion, it's kind of like how the surfers make the sign for "hangin' loose", just instead of holding your hand up in the air, position it for playing on the neck. Be sure that your hand is relaxed, but get a good grip with the finger that is fretting the note. I don't know, I just started doing that move as a teenager and it's second nature to me. It's probably easiest to do with the index finger, but with practice, you can easily do it with the middle and ring fingers (don't bother with the pinky). Good luck.


Mike

P.S. A very good variation of the move is to bend a note up and wiggle it down to pitch. This technique can be heard in the second guitar solo of Stormy Monday (Dickie Betts') from the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore album. One thing to beware though, this technique, if practiced too often, will surely dig a groove/channel in your fret (most likely on the 3rd string), don't over do it.

[Tito83]

Only vibrato lesson you need:

1. Listen his vibrato
wEqhg-qozdk
2. Copy his vibrato
3. Be awesome

[gennation]

Mike

P.S. A very good variation of the move is to bend a note up and wiggle it down to pitch. This technique can be heard in the second guitar solo of Stormy Monday (Dickie Betts') from the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore album. One thing to beware though, this technique, if practiced too often, will surely dig a groove/channel in your fret (most likely on the 3rd string), don't over do it.

Yeah, totally. For me all it took was the feedback and then the options/possibilities were endless on what to do with it.

[A-Bone]

And that, boys and girls, is how it's done. Excellent playing & teaching.

I went to the you tube site - It's a fellow named Jerry Baiden, who teaches out of Cupertino.

Man, I wish I could find a teacher like that in central Jersey.

Cupertino, eh? That is right in my back yard...

[rob2001]

Now I'll work on the bent vibrato.



This is where I think the violin style may be tricky, at least for me.

But really, I don't think there is a right or wrong way. It's something that should be unique, something that makes you sound like you.

[BCnSTL]

Only vibrato lesson you need:

1. Listen his vibrato
wEqhg-qozdk
2. Copy his vibrato
3. Be awesome

Great vibrato. He overplays, IMO.

If Fat Elvis played lead guitar, he'd look a lot like that.