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View Full Version : Germino amp compared to a Marshall Vintage Modern amp


bodark
07-14-2012, 10:34 PM
I have a VM2466 with the matching 425A cab and no way to test out a Germino, any model, amp. Has anyone done an A/B comparison of these two amps? If so what are your thoughts of each and how do they compare in general for a '68 thru '71 Marshall plexi sound? Did the VM cover the same ground the Germino is capable of covering?

Stratoben127
07-14-2012, 10:50 PM
Marshall could do more than a Germino without pedals, but in my experience, a Germino blows every Marshall away by a landslide in quality, reliability and sound. This is true to every modern Marshall I've played and a '70 Super Lead. This is exactly why I'll be the owner of a Germino sometime this week.

Kelly
07-14-2012, 10:56 PM
A Germino sounds like a really good Marshall. The Vintage Modern sounds like a really bad Bassman head.

tucky
07-15-2012, 01:35 AM
I'm interested in this too. I suppose Greg's closest amp to a VM is the one with 4 KT66's in the power section. Can't remember the name of that one. Wouldn't be as versatile as the VM, unless you used pedals in front of it, but I'm sure build and quality wise it would be better than the VM.

LPVM
07-15-2012, 03:56 AM
The Vintage Modern sounds like a really bad Bassman head.

:huh

8kbe3mAJGSw


Sounds o.k. to me. :dunno

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 09:29 AM
I'm interested in this too. I suppose Greg's closest amp to a VM is the one with 4 KT66's in the power section. Can't remember the name of that one. Wouldn't be as versatile as the VM, unless you used pedals in front of it, but I'm sure build and quality wise it would be better than the VM.

The VM isn't close to any of his amps really. Modern Marshall's do not and will not sound like a real vintage Plexi. Greg's amps sound like a vintage Plexi on a bad day, because on a good day they're so much more. They're insanely dynamic, touch responsive, and have amazing cleans. I guess a Classic 45 or Monterey would be close because of the KT66 tubes, but considering I doubt that the VM is a bass circuit (I doubt that it's even based off a real lead circuit) I would say the Lead 55 or Headroom with KT66s would be closest, but I don't understand why Marshall decided to use KT66s in an amp that is supposed to replicate classic Marshall crunch from the 60's to the 80's. I mean, early Jimi, early Clapton (Beano), and Angus were really the only guys of huge notoriety using KT66s. I know that those tones are incredibly important and iconic, but EL34s could really do them fine, and cover the high gain stuff way better. Besides, modern KT66s are nothing like the old ones and even Greg Germino recommends not using them and using 5881s or 6L6s in his Classic 45.

DV52
07-15-2012, 09:36 AM
I have been thinking of the Germino Classis 45, his site says he is using gold lion kt66's.

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 09:56 AM
I have been thinking of the Germino Classis 45, his site says he is using gold lion kt66's.

It if you read his tonequest report or talk to him directly, he recommends against them. He only ships them with KT66s becsuss they did back then. I'm not saying they're bad at all, but they're not the greatest compared to how the old ones were.

cardinal
07-15-2012, 09:57 AM
I haven't played a VM, but it looks like most posters in here haven't either. I've heard good things. The gut shots I've seen scare me a bit, though

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 10:09 AM
I haven't played a VM, but it looks like most posters in here haven't either. I've heard good things. The gut shots I've seen scare me a bit, though

They're not really that bad. I was very interested in them until I discovered Germino. Once I heard one and saw pics, it was a no-brainer. The VM isn't regarded too highly, but people certainly like them. If you need versatility and want the Marshall name for a good price (they go for around $1000 used) I would certainly get a Vintage Modern, or maybe a Ceriatone because I don't care about the Marshall name and I'm not a fan of PCB. If you have the money and the means for a Germino, then without a doubt get one. I would save up some cash, sell the VM, and get a Germino and some good pedals, but that's just me. I would sell just the head and keep the cab, as Germino heads can be found for around $1500. I got my Masonette for $1200.

DV52
07-15-2012, 10:10 AM
It if you read his tonequest report or talk to him directly, he recommends against them. He only ships them with KT66s becsuss they did back then. I'm not saying they're bad at all, but they're not the greatest compared to how the old ones were.
I have not talked to Greg, but I have been looking at his site. It says that 2012 models of the Classic 45 are shipping with Gold Lion KT 66's.

I have never played one,but he surley would not put out an amp that is not to his liking.

moggio
07-15-2012, 10:16 AM
The VM is not a "bad" amp, but it is not a Germino. I have both a Germino Masonette and Lead 55LV and have played throught the VM. They are different animals entirely. It really depends on what type of tones you are after. If you are going for a true "vintage" old style plexi tone, you cannot beat a Germino (well, maybe a Metro would be comparable). The VM certainly has the Marshall vibe, but a different flavor. All of Greg's amps are Plexis-- but they are all different. It really comes down to what tones YOU are after.
As far as the KT66 GLs go- I just corresponded with Greg about the 45 last weekend. He uses them now because they have improved the quality tremendously since they were released. He stated that he is having good results in the field and they sound good. They are also able to handle the 525 plate voltage on the Monterey without issue. He also commented on liking the TAD short bottle 6L6WGC in the 45.

lgehrig4
07-15-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm surprised people are even comparing the VM with any of the Germinos. Completely different amps. If you need higher gain, for say 80's metal, the Germinos would fail. If you need more than one channel, the Germino's would fail. If you need vintage plexi tones, the Germinos are THE brand to buy.

I've only heard a VM and I thought it sounded good. Don't know where the "bad bassman" comment is coming from. I've owned a Lead 55, LV55, Classic 45, Club 40 and Monterey. All of these amps sound great, but each are better at certain tones. There is overlap, but each model still does have strong points that the others cannot match.

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 10:45 AM
I'm surprised people are even comparing the VM with any of the Germinos. Completely different amps. If you need higher gain, for say 80's metal, the Germinos would fail. If you need more than one channel, the Germino's would fail. If you need vintage plexi tones, the Germinos are THE brand to buy.

I've only heard a VM and I thought it sounded good. Don't know where the "bad bassman" comment is coming from. I've owned a Lead 55, LV55, Classic 45, Club 40 and Monterey. All of these amps sound great, but each are better at certain tones. There is overlap, but each model still does have strong points that the others cannot match.

Interesting. I think the first part is for the most part true, although high gain 80's tones are possible with pedals from a Germino. Like I said, for a while I was very interested in the VM until I heard Germinos. I was much more impressed with the quality and tone, but that's also because the classic Plexi tone is the tone I like, considering I listen to The Allman Brothers, Hendrix, Cream, EJ, ect. I didn't think the VM was bad at all when I tried it, and I still don't think it's bad, but compared to the Germino, it's in another league completely. I will say that this might be because of the TGP Germino fanboy attitude a bit, but it seems others agree. I didn't see how the "Bad Bassman" comment arose either, but maybe he played a dog. I played two VMs- a 50 water which sounded pretty good, and a 100 watter that was fizzy, popping, and just weird sounding. Different strokes I guess... If I had the chance to pick up a VM along with my Masonette, I probably would.

stratpaulguy86
07-15-2012, 10:56 AM
I also don't know where this idea that on a bad day Germinos sound like a standard vintage Plexi. I for one who own a few old ones and have played many examples of both '68-'74 Marshalls along with a few Germinos, somewhat disagree. Every old Marshall I've played has had the "it" factor over any clone including Metro or Germino. Nothing against either, I actually own a Metro 100w, but c'mon there's a reason Greg and George idolize and clone those circuits.

Regarding the VM, I found you could get some very cool Hendrix tones with a Strat and awesome Led Zep tones with a Les Paul. It is very responsive, cleans up very well, affordable, and has more gain on tap if that's your thing. I could easily hear the KT66 influence on the amp, it added a smooth compressed sizzle to the tone...hard to describe really but very characteristic of those tubes. Most of the VM demos I hear have modern levels of gain but my experience trying them in stores if you turn the gain down a bit you get some wonderful "juiced up JTM45 tones". Good luck, they are both killer amps and brands (Germino and Marshall).

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 11:07 AM
By saying on a bad day they sound like vintage Marshalls, I meant that they can do much more. I feel that they have better cleans and are much quieter. They definitely blew away a '77 JMP (but the VM did too) and Germino cleans weren't close to the cleans from a '70 Superlead I played. The cleans from a '69 were very nice though and that amp may have beaten the Germino, but I couldn't crank it. I unfortunately haven't gotten the chance to play a pristine cranked Plexi, but I imagine it's great. I do really like Germino cleans though.

lgehrig4
07-15-2012, 11:29 AM
By saying on a bad day they sound like vintage Marshalls, I meant that they can do much more. I feel that they have better cleans and are much quieter. They definitely blew away a '77 JMP (but the VM did too) and Germino cleans weren't close to the cleans from a '70 Superlead I played. The cleans from a '69 were very nice though and that amp may have beaten the Germino, but I couldn't crank it. I unfortunately haven't gotten the chance to play a pristine cranked Plexi, but I imagine it's great. I do really like Germino cleans though.

I wasn't referring to your quote. I was referring to the guy who said that the VM sounds like a "bad Bassman".

Just saw your video. Nice playing and tone. Don't know what map you were playing, but it sounded good. I also read your thread about your new Masonette. You may have waited 2yrs for a Gemino, but at your age you are way ahead of the game in terms of skill and gear. Keep it up!

Tread
07-15-2012, 11:32 AM
I wasn't referring to your quote. I was referring to the guy who said that the VM sounds like a "bad Bassman".

Just saw your video. Nice playing and tone. Don't know what map you were playing, but it sounded good. I also read your thread about your new Masonette. You may have waited 2yrs for a Gemino, but at your age you are way ahead of the game in terms of skill and gear. Keep it up!

:agreeThis.... saw it as well ...... Very KooL !

Stratoben127
07-15-2012, 11:35 AM
I wasn't referring to your quote. I was referring to the guy who said that the VM sounds like a "bad Bassman".

Just saw your video. Nice playing and tone. Don't know what map you were playing, but it sounded good. I also read your thread about your new Masonette. You may have waited 2yrs for a Gemino, but at your age you are way ahead of the game in terms of skill and gear. Keep it up!

Thank you very much! I'm assuming you watched In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed, which is a bit older. It's either a Catlinbread DLS MkII or FD2 into a Hot Rod Deluxe with a V30 and Wolfetone Pups in my LP. I need to put a new video of that song up and delete some of my older stuff. I just ended the cover band I've been in for a while now to pursue my original work with the drummer of that band. I've been recording and writing all summer so there hasn't been many gigs to post videos of. The new band that me and the drummer are forming will be premiering at Warped tour in Ft. Lauderdale FL. I'm not a fan of any of the music there, and I'm not sure how blues rock and funk will fit into the mix, but it's a good debut gig. I can also open up the Germino there. ;) Thanks again!

DV52
07-15-2012, 11:37 AM
I agree with the last two posts.

VERY NICE JOB Mr Stratoben127 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stratpaulguy86
07-15-2012, 07:50 PM
Stratoben, I just checked out your Youtube stuff and you definately got things figured out pretty well especially considering your age. It's scary to think where your chops will be in about 10 or 15 years if you keep things up... anways congrats on the Masonette, I bet it will kill for the ABB stuff you are doing.

bodark
07-16-2012, 02:45 PM
Any Marshall VM fans?

Tread
07-16-2012, 05:58 PM
Any Marshall VM fans?

Yeah .... but I have a Hate / Love relationship with mine .....but thats ok ...a/b'd with a '72 50w for cleans....and raw meat.

TubeStack
07-16-2012, 09:05 PM
I love my VM 2466, it's been my main/only amp for two years now and I love it more all the time, which says something. I use it with a 1960BX cab and a Les Paul, no pedals, in a heavy-ish blues rock trio. I have tried all the following amps with this band and none have met my needs as well as the Vintage Modern 2466: 1959 SLP, JCM800 2204, DR Z Remedy, Fender '57 Twin RI, and an Orange Rocker 30.

The VM 2466 is an incredibly versatile amp and I love how well it responds to the slightest change on the guitar's volume/tone controls. I was a bit of a 'new Marshalls suck' snob, before trying the 2466, but it showed that to be completely untrue - it's a classic, incredible sounding amp that is a joy to play. It also gets great tones at a usable range of volume levels, though it's best at noon or higher, of course. :)

I do want to try a Germino Lead 55, for fun and because I'd like to have a 50W EL34 amp as an option. On a build quality level, I'm sure the Germino will be a beautiful thing, although I don't really care about that as much as I care about sound/feel and reliability. As long as an amp kills in a band setting and doesn't break down, I don't really need to jerk off at the sight of its innards. One will definitely need a pedal with a Germino amp to reach the VM's available levels of gain. The VM kicks in a fourth preamp tube in High Dynamic Range that makes it similar to a hot rodded/boosted JTM45.

Greg Germino certainly seems like a cool guy, great guitar player, and master Marshall craftsman. I'm interested in trying his take on the old Marshall circuit, at some point, probably with a couple of overdrive and fuzz pedals in front. I do wonder if might be 'too refined' a sound, for my tastes, as I like my Marshalls to be loud, nasty, and crushing, as well as sweet, but I've no doubt it'd still be a great sound and fun to try.

TubeStack
07-16-2012, 09:23 PM
... Most of the VM demos I hear have modern levels of gain but my experience trying them in stores if you turn the gain down a bit you get some wonderful "juiced up JTM45 tones". Good luck, they are both killer amps and brands (Germino and Marshall).

Yes! So true.