Martin guitars...WTF ?

[Timmo]

I stopped into a new chain store that recently opened up in my city and on the wall were a decent selection of Martin acoustics of which I have been looking forward to playing.
Well, my bud and I begin to dig into some of these beauties and WOW ! Every last one of them was a complete DOG!
Toneless, vibeless, volumeless, you name it they DIDN'T HAVE IT!
We played models on the low side in price all the way up to the high side ( over $3,000 is high side to me ) and not one had anything whatsoever interesting about it.
How in the world does Martin Guitars stay in business nowadays with all these other builders putting out far superior products?
I am sorry to say but you new Martin guitar lovers are just plain "tone deaf" I guess. I am amazed Martin is still around.
LOUSY, lousy guitars! Pretty, but plain LOUSY!
Whew...........I just feel better now thank you. :)

[Bryan T]

Chain store + Martin acoustics = dead strings
Dead strings = no tone, vibe, or volume

I'm not a huge fan of Martin guitars, but I'd bet that a lot of those guitars would be much more inspiring with fresh strings. Other manufacturers ship with Elixirs that retain their tone for a lot longer.

Bryan

[stephenT]

I am a fan of Martin guitars and have owned a few low end models that were quite nice. Lot's of folks love 'em.

That being said, my Martin copy was built by the Merrill Bros.

[Doug]

Originally posted by Bryan T
Chain store + Martin acoustics = dead strings
Dead strings = no tone, vibe, or volume

I'm not a huge fan of Martin guitars, but I'd bet that a lot of those guitars would be much more inspiring with fresh strings. Other manufacturers ship with Elixirs that retain their tone for a lot longer.

Bryan

Ding ding! Martin strings aren't known for their long life to begin with. Old strings can indeed make the guitar sound dead as a doornail.

My dad bought a DX1 a couple of months ago. Best sounding $500 guitar on the market, IMO.

Doug

[clarkram]

hmmmmmm. I bought a new Martin (OMC Aura) a few months ago and it is not dead, toneless, etc. As a matter of fact it has a great rounded tone that makes my Taylor 810 sound anemic.

Clark

[Timmo]

Well, we more than made allowances for 'dead strings' but a shiny new set of strings wouldn't have helped these "toneless wonders". "Can't polish a turd" as the saying goes.
I cannot understand how you can spend so much time and energy on building a very pretty guitar and then not put any thought into how it is going to sound.
Building guitars is not rocket science nor is it magic as much as we all would like to think.
Just takes time, good materials and some freakin' common sense! :confused:

[riffmeister]

Timmo......speak with your wallet......don't buy one.

There are plenty of other choices out there.

[Timmo]

Originally posted by riffmeister
Timmo......speak with your wallet......don't buy one.

There are plenty of other choices out there.

Hey Riff:
I know, it's just I used to always want a MARTIN guitar and it was just a rude awakening.
I remember playing Martins years ago in stores and they seemed to be glorious.
Maybe they weren't. I don't know now...........

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Timmo
I remember playing Martins years ago in stores and they seemed to be glorious.
Maybe they weren't. I don't know now...........
Were they also hanging on the wall for weeks with every greasy fingered pre-pubescent pimple popper mucking them up?

I know when I bought mine, they had me choose from more than a dozen cased guitars. They had been played little, if at all...


Jamie

[Timmo]

Originally posted by JMintzer
Were they also hanging on the wall for weeks with every greasy fingered pre-pubescent pimple popper mucking them up?

I know when I bought mine, they had me choose from more than a dozen cased guitars. They had been played little, if at all...


Jamie

I just don't buy this argument about 'strings and things'.
The other brands in the store while not awesome, kicked the Martins in the arse!
So, it goes WAY beyond hanging in a window with lousy strings etc. ALL guitars in a store go through that same scenario.
Nah, there's more to it than that. I just haven't come to my own conclusions on it yet.
I'm afraid my first impressions are what I'm going to conclude.................that Martins just are NOT for me anymore!

[Bryan T]

Originally posted by Timmo
I just don't buy this argument about 'strings and things'.
The other brands in the store while not awesome, kicked the Martins in the arse!


I would bet that the other brands had Elixir or some other coated strings. If you really care to see if you like Martins or not, go to a small acoustic shop that takes care of their guitars, including keeping them in fresh strings and in the correct humidity range. Dead strings and incorrect humidity levels can make a great guitar sound like a piece of cardboard. It could also be that Martins aren't for you, but your comments really make me blame the store rather than the manufacturer.

Bryan

[MichaelK]

I felt the same when I played a bunch. They left me absolutely cold, every one.

They're assembly line guitars, is all. There's no tone shaping during construction at all. There's a reason why handmade acoustics cost so much more.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by Timmo
I know, it's just I used to always want a MARTIN guitar and it was just a rude awakening.....

Collings & Santa Cruz will put a larger dent in your wallet, but wow......they are everything Marting guitars ever *dreamed* of being!

[sanhozay]

I've owned a plain jane D28 for about five years and it's a total cannon. Sonorous, thunderous and indeed glorious. Must have been pot luck....

The D18's that I've tried have been impressive, too. I'm pretty sure, almost positive, just about certain I like them better. And although my wife's Gibson J45 is not an articulate and bright speaker it sure sounds wonderful going chucka-chucka-boom-boom, chucka-chucka-boom-boom, chucka-chucka-boom-boom.

[Chops]

I played a new D-18V(E) at a Guitar Center a few weeks ago that was awesome--I could easily live with it. A beautiful woody tone.

[NeuroLogic]

I you are really after an improved sound, try a guitar w/ the thurman sound ports. This invention takes the acoustic guitar to a whole new level of clarity & volume. The audio on the web site is poor so don't go by it. I have played several of these by various makers and the ports dramitically improve any guitar. Matt Artinger recently agreed with this after a personal audition.
Another benefit the cut-away type access without the typical loss of sound. ;)
Go to: http://members.aol.com/rogluthier/indexhome.html

[flume]

24 hours ago I was on a personal guided tour of the Martin factory...my second time through, but this one was twice as long with nobody else but my father and a friend along.

I have one Martin already and another on the way. Got to see it in the making.

The tour and my subsequent time in the demo room with some of the higher and mid range priced models confirmed for me that Martin is at the top of their game. I've played some Martins in Guitar Center that left me cold too but I would not say that's indicative of what Martins can do.

If you are hearing dead lifeless tone, I would encourage the same as others have done--go to a shop that give a fat flying rip about the product they sell and try them. Yes, you may end up paying a few more dollars but it's ultimately your call.

To me, it's simply the willingness to pay for customer service, vs. customer contempt.

[ChrisP]

Originally posted by Timmo
Hey Riff:
I know, it's just I used to always want a MARTIN guitar and it was just a rude awakening.
I remember playing Martins years ago in stores and they seemed to be glorious.
Maybe they weren't. I don't know now...........

Your loss...my Martin sounds glorious :)

[Bluzsteel]

sounds like someone has a hard on aginst Martin, .....dead strings make any guitar sound like crap. I own old Martins that are cannons, but sound like most other guitars when the strings go bad. I just bought a D-28V fresh out the box and its the greatest sounding guitar I own. my Taylor cant stand up to it, Elixers or not

[Timmo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bluzsteel
[B]sounds like someone has a hard on aginst Martin, .....

Look Blu........NO "hard on against Martin ok! NO hidden agenda alright! I wanted to check out some Martins and I did and they were ALL terrible guitars. END of Story bro.
Like I said earlier which you obviously didn't read.........I have been playing long enough to know the difference between old strings and a LOUSY guitar. These Martins were lousy guitars PERIOD!
I played a Huss and Dalton yesterday with OLD STRINGS and it KILLED so sorry but you "diehard Martin" people are only kidding yourselves. :AOK

"dead strings make any guitar sound like crap".

NO. You're wrong and this is a "load of Crap". ;)

[Bluzsteel]

not a die hard Martin fan ,just a fan of good sounding guitars, I saw you played high and low models . which ones? just wondering , by the way I play a lot of guitars and only own a few Martins. I think I might try another music store. the two I go to keep fresh strings on all of the guitars and they all get the same shot. but calling Martins turds .....come on.

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Timmo
so sorry but you "diehard Martin" people are only kidding yourselves. :AOK

"dead strings make any guitar sound like crap".

NO. You're wrong and this is a "load of Crap". ;)
Probably not the best way to be taken seiously... :rolleyes:


Jamie

[Gazza]

Even with new strings most guitars are lifeless and sterile compared to a Martin. I've owned about one of everything and Martins are one of the earthiest sounding guitars out there. Playing a Martin at a shop that takes care of them makes a huge difference. As much as I love Martins I have never wanted to buy one or been impressed with one at a chain store. Chain guitar stores are for people out of the know.

[clarkram]

Originally posted by Timmo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bluzsteel
[B]sounds like someone has a hard on aginst Martin, .....




"dead strings make any guitar sound like crap".

NO. You're wrong and this is a "load of Crap".

;)

No, actually YOU are wrong.

[Bluzsteel]

there is a cool clip of Phil Keaggy playing a regular D-28 using a Lr Baggs, sounds pretty good to me


http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_ibeam.shtml

[Timmo]

Originally posted by clarkram
No, actually YOU are wrong.

How am I wrong when I just told you I played a Huss & Dalton with OLD strings and it was still a stellar sounding guitar?
You may want to rethink YOUR comment..........:D
The comment "ANY guitar with old strings will sound like crap" just isn't true!

[Timmo]

Originally posted by Bluzsteel
not a die hard Martin fan ,just a fan of good sounding guitars, I saw you played high and low models . which ones? just wondering , by the way I play a lot of guitars and only own a few Martins. I think I might try another music store. the two I go to keep fresh strings on all of the guitars and they all get the same shot. but calling Martins turds .....come on.

I too am 'just a fan of good sounding guitars' and on this particular day, I found none.
I played a new D-35 which was the worst of the bunch at $2,500.
A D-18 reissue of some sort. It was rather toneless as well at $1,800.
I also played the satin finished D sized guitars at the $800 price range. These for the price were better than the higher end Martins on that day but still nothing special .
I reiterate "on that day" these Martins were "turds".
I'm not here to change anyone's mind on Martins but I am here to tell of what I experienced recently playing NEW Martins and that with all of the other builders out there today WHY anyone would buy a NEW Martin today, well...........WTF ?
:eek:

[Timmo]

Originally posted by JMintzer
Probably not the best way to be taken seiously... :rolleyes:


Jamie

Maybe, but if you read the postings above then you just MIGHT see where my quote came from. ;)

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Timmo
I'm not here to change anyone's mind on Martins but I am here to tell of what I experienced recently playing NEW Martins and that with all of the other builders out there today WHY anyone would buy a NEW Martin today, well...........WTF ?
:eek:
Your statement should be: "Why would anyone buy one of the Martins I tried.

As has been mentioned before, GC (or your superstore of choice) isn't ecxactly the best place to get a real feel on many things...


Jamie

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Timmo
Maybe, but if you read the postings above then you just MIGHT see where my quote came from. ;)
Oh, don't worry. I read the entire thread. Just as I read your posts in other gear review threads. Frankly, your "this sucks" reviews add little to the conversation.


Jamie

[Timmo]

Originally posted by JMintzer
Oh, don't worry. I read the entire thread. Just as I read your posts in other gear review threads. Frankly, your "this sucks" reviews add little to the conversation.


Jamie

Oh Jamie......... MY opinions are every bit as valued as yours.
You obviously have NOT read many of my reviews here of which I praise many pieces of gear that I have owned and or played.
I call them how I see them.
Something you don't seem to be able to pull off.
I think you have a hidden agenda here bud when it comes to Martins.
Care to enlighten us on what you are getting from Martin?
Either that or YOU are tonedeaf!
:)

[sanhozay]

Originally posted by Timmo
I call them how I see them.

Dude! That's your problem! You're supposed to use your ears, not your eyes. ;)

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Timmo
Oh Jamie......... MY opinions are every bit as valued as yours.
You obviously have NOT read many of my reviews here of which I praise many pieces of gear that I have owned and or played.
I've read several of your reviews. That is why I chose to comment on them. Your "I would rather have 'Gibson' on the headstock" was a real eye opener...
I call them how I see them.
See? How 'bout hear?
Something you don't seem to be able to pull off.
Exactly what and where have I not been able to pull off? Comments like that are meant to be nothing but inflammatory and add add nothing to the argument. In fact, they subtract from whatever little (and I do mean little) credibility you have.
I think you have a hidden agenda here bud when it comes to Martins.
And what, pray tell, in your devine wisdom would give you that idea? What 'hidden agenda' could you possibly think that I have? Or is this just more of your "Call it the way I see it" BS?
Care to enlighten us on what you are getting from Martin?
Nothing more than almost 30 years of great tone from my D-35. A guitar that is the envy of more than one TGP member. A guitar that has more than one standing offer if I ever care to sell it.
Either that or YOU are tonedeaf!
:)
I realize that you're trying to be funny. Unfortunately (for you) you're failing miserably...

How could you possibly know what I hear or what my guitars sound like? Oh, that's right! You can't! You simply enjoy slinging insults at any piece of gear you don't like and at those people who happen to prefer that particular piece of gear. If it pumps up your self esteem, by all means go for it...:rolleyes:

Here's a little advice. Try shopping at someplace other than your local Guitar Center. I realize that you probably enjoy hanging out there with the other 'kids', banging on guitars, but if you really want to learn what any acoustic guitar is capable of, you really need to play one that is properly cared for. Something that your local hangout can't provide...

Or, you can continue to paint with that broad brush and make a fool of yourself...


Jamie

P.S. I'm not your Bud...:rolleyes:

[Bluzsteel]

Hey Jamie, have you checked out the Martin Vintage series? man I just bought a HD-28V and I still cant get over what a great guitar this is! I cant afford a 1947 but this one sure is amazing. its every bit as loud as my 1953 D-18. and thats saying alot , bookmatch top ,back and sides.................................

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by Bluzsteel
Hey Jamie, have you checked out the Martin Vintage series? man I just bought a HD-28V and I still cant get over what a great guitar this is! I cant afford a 1947 but this one sure is amazing. its every bit as loud as my 1953 D-18. and thats saying alot , bookmatch top ,back and sides.................................
Those are probably the best guitars they make (outside the Golden Era guitars). I'm jonsing for a 12 fret OOO slothead right now...


Jamie

[Bluzsteel]

yeah Golden Era was to much as well ,so I settle for the HD-28V, almost took home the HD_28 VS , but whent with the 14 fret

[Timmo]

JMintzer: Where to begin..........
First of all, DO NOT read a couple of my postings here and pretend to know anything about me as I have posted an equal amount of "positive reviews" here as well and you know that.
Secondly, your gradeschool antics about "See? How about hear"?
was just a real intellectual treat.
Thirdly, my comment about a REALLY GREAT GUITAR ( See MY POSITIVE REVIEW) for the money that happens to say GIBSON on it as opposed to Epiphone was my take on the two . I will always choose a USA made over a Korean made if they are basically the same money. Sorry if you have a problem with that but hey, that's me.
Fourthly, as for your hidden agenda, well you do own a D35 so that does somewhat prejudice your personal comments towards me.
"30 years of great tone" is YOUR opinion and I am quite sure I wouldn't agree with it. I still say new Martins are bottom of the pile when compared to the many new builders.
Why does your opinion matter MORE than mine? Here a news flash for you........IT DOESN'T ! Being shortsighted is not a good thing alright.
Lastly, as a "so-called" Moderator here, ( you are a mod here right ? I do hope I'm wrong here )
I feel it would be in YOUR best interest to remain less adversarial in your postings here. You have personally attacked me and I do not appreciate it. GOT IT !
You come off as a complete bully ( a small minded one at that) in the sense that if I happen to say something you don't agree with you have the power of 'banning' me from the website.
You are "trolling' with the best of them here and from a "MODERATOR" we should all expect much more.
Now, go play your Martin D "whatever" and let us here that do enjoy
an honest review of what one experienced on a given day continue.

P. S. "BUD" was NOT used as a term of endearment.
Sorry to disappoint you.
You sir are NO BUD of mine.........................................
:D

[sanhozay]

Breath deeply, Jamie. Don't even respond.
Let Timmo go home a winner.

[bobeau]

Let me see if I can inject a little balance here...

Firstly, Timmo, I'm with ya on the Martins - at least through my ears/fingers. I do think the dead strings argument, even if there's some truth to it, is a bit of a copout. I've played many with fresh strings (including my own '99 D-28) and only liked a '43 d-18 and one of the aforementioned vintage series d-28s. Even thought a $45k '69 D-45 was a dog.

That said I haven't seen much from Taylor that floated my boat. And getting to the smaller shops, Collings doesn't do it for me. Or Goodall. Or Froggy Bottom... in fact there's very little out there that I like in the acoustic realm. It's weird, because when it comes to electrics I'm really not so picky.

Basically for full production guitars I like Larrivees, from the smaller shops I like Santa Cruz and Huss and Dalton (I _own_ a Huss and Dalton CM so you might surmise we're a bit on the same wavelength). Haven't played the likes of Ryans/Olsons or some of the really $$ builders. But that's about all I can say I'm a fan of after playing 100+ guitars in multiple sittings @ Buffalo Bros. (http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/) here in San Diego.

Backing up a bit - some people _swear_ by Collings as the end all, be all, and I just don't get it. Which is fine. Obviously they hear/feel something I'm not; that doesn't mean they don't turn out fantastic guitars.

Martin is like Marshall/Fender/Gibson... an institution. On the whole, most folks feel they make good stuff, and certainly there is some historical footprint which contributes to that feeling. At specific pricepoints many think they can buy better from lesser knowns. I'm one of those people. Some people look for a specific tone that they believe can only come from an original. That's cool... if I grew up in the 60s I might gravitate more toward Martins. Point being, if alot of people feel some way about something there must be some truth AFA quality is involved.

[clarkram]

Timmo, you might take some pointers from bobeau on how to post an opinion without inciting a riot.

T, you got off on the wrong foot on this thread by stating that anyone who likes/plays a Martin is tonedeaf. Thats not verbatim, but close. Its also not a criticism of Martin, its criticism of people you don't know, musically or personally.

I'll close with saying I wish you had more info in your profile, don't know if you're just am immature jerk or just an old jerk. The dtermination that you are a jerk comes from the same place that you accuse me (and others) of being tone deaf.

[kilgorekid]

Remember what yo' Momma told you-If you can't say something nice about somebody or something, don't say nuttin' at all!:D

[MichaelK]

FWIW - I just got back from visiting my son, who played me a bunch of new songs on his cheap satin-finish 2-year old Martin. It sounded great, like a guitar 3-4 times the price or more. Rich and full mids with a sweet, airy high end. He had taken his time, played a whole bunch of different guitars, and found a real winner.

I guess he must be tone deaf, but I had forgotten about this thread so it slipped my mind to tell him.

[JMintzer]

Originally posted by sanhozay
Breath deeply, Jamie. Don't even respond.
Let Timmo go home a winner.
Y'know, you're probably right...

But what the hell...



Timmo,

You talk about my adversarial posting style? HAH! You're really missing your calling as a stand-up comedian! Er, then again, maybe not...

Grade School Antics? Are you familiar with the phrase "Pot/Kettle/Black?" Calling people "Tonedeaf" when the disagree with you isn't exactly what in know as "mature".

Calling me a "so-called Moderator" reeks of a desperate attempt to strike out...

I never suggested that my opinion was more valid than yours. I simply suggested that you seek out a shop where the guitars are better cared for before jumping to any conclusions.

Shortsighted? Sorry, I'm a bit nearsighted, but I think that's a completely different issue...

I suggest you reconsider your over the top, in your face, "I call them the way I see them", posts. That way your tenure here will be long and enjoyable...


Oh, and one more thing...

You brought up personal attacks. Attacking the Mod Staff is not the best way to maintain said tenure...


Jamie

[axpro]

The Martin Question has troubled me greatly over the last few years.

Working in a music store, I got asked for thema ll the time, (we weren't a dealer at the time) when we finally got them, I tried a d-18 and 28 so I could see what the fuss was about... and I wasn't impressed, new out of the box. Later on i tried an older d-28 (early 60's) a co-worker had in for a setup, new strings, clean old weathered in.... better, but nah.

I think that some of us just don't like Martins, some old school guys I know would shoot me for saying it, but I just don't like them. My personal favorite right now is a Koa back and side L'arrivee, it is was great out of the box, and weathering in has made it even sweeter. I find martins have a very pronounced midrange, which martin fans rave about... I just don't seem to like it.

Dave Mc

[Timmo]

Originally posted by bobeau
Let me see if I can inject a little balance here...

Firstly, Timmo, I'm with ya on the Martins - at least through my ears/fingers. I do think the dead strings argument, even if there's some truth to it, is a bit of a copout. I've played many with fresh strings (including my own '99 D-28) and only liked a '43 d-18 and one of the aforementioned vintage series d-28s. Even thought a $45k '69 D-45 was a dog.

That said I haven't seen much from Taylor that floated my boat. And getting to the smaller shops, Collings doesn't do it for me. Or Goodall. Or Froggy Bottom... in fact there's very little out there that I like in the acoustic realm. It's weird, because when it comes to electrics I'm really not so picky.

Basically for full production guitars I like Larrivees, from the smaller shops I like Santa Cruz and Huss and Dalton (I _own_ a Huss and Dalton CM so you might surmise we're a bit on the same wavelength). Haven't played the likes of Ryans/Olsons or some of the really $$ builders. But that's about all I can say I'm a fan of after playing 100+ guitars in multiple sittings @ Buffalo Bros. (http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/) here in San Diego.

Backing up a bit - some people _swear_ by Collings as the end all, be all, and I just don't get it. Which is fine. Obviously they hear/feel something I'm not; that doesn't mean they don't turn out fantastic guitars.

Martin is like Marshall/Fender/Gibson... an institution. On the whole, most folks feel they make good stuff, and certainly there is some historical footprint which contributes to that feeling. At specific pricepoints many think they can buy better from lesser knowns. I'm one of those people. Some people look for a specific tone that they believe can only come from an original. That's cool... if I grew up in the 60s I might gravitate more toward Martins. Point being, if alot of people feel some way about something there must be some truth AFA quality is involved.

Finally someone who is on the same page. Sorry to tell you this for you maybe "tarred & feathered" because of it. Keep looking over your shoulder ..........:) There are Martin lovers amoung us.
I totally forgot about the strange phenom known as "brand loyalty". It is a funny state of mind. It allows for all kinds of excuses etc.
All sorts of issues or concerns are often overlooked because of it.
I also agree with you on Collings and Taylor. They don't do much for me either and I've played a few.
So far the TWO Huss & Dalton's I played did appeal to me.
My God, they even sounded great with OLD strings! Imagine that!
:eek:

[Timmo]

Originally posted by axpro
The Martin Question has troubled me greatly over the last few years.

Working in a music store, I got asked for thema ll the time, (we weren't a dealer at the time) when we finally got them, I tried a d-18 and 28 so I could see what the fuss was about... and I wasn't impressed, new out of the box. Later on i tried an older d-28 (early 60's) a co-worker had in for a setup, new strings, clean old weathered in.... better, but nah.

I think that some of us just don't like Martins, some old school guys I know would shoot me for saying it, but I just don't like them. My personal favorite right now is a Koa back and side L'arrivee, it is was great out of the box, and weathering in has made it even sweeter. I find martins have a very pronounced midrange, which martin fans rave about... I just don't seem to like it.

Dave Mc

Axpro:
You too maybe in grave danger! No one here knocks Martin guitars and gets away with it!
Run, run man........RUN for your life.............:D

[Timmo]

Originally posted by JMintzer
Y'know, you're probably right...

But what the hell...



Timmo,

You talk about my adversarial posting style? HAH! You're really missing your calling as a stand-up comedian! Er, then again, maybe not...

Grade School Antics? Are you familiar with the phrase "Pot/Kettle/Black?" Calling people "Tonedeaf" when the disagree with you isn't exactly what in know as "mature".

Calling me a "so-called Moderator" reeks of a desperate attempt to strike out...

I never suggested that my opinion was more valid than yours. I simply suggested that you seek out a shop where the guitars are better cared for before jumping to any conclusions.

Shortsighted? Sorry, I'm a bit nearsighted, but I think that's a completely different issue...

I suggest you reconsider your over the top, in your face, "I call them the way I see them", posts. That way your tenure here will be long and enjoyable...


Oh, and one more thing...

You brought up personal attacks. Attacking the Mod Staff is not the best way to maintain said tenure...


Jamie

JMintzer.
There you go threatening me with "maintaining said tenure" . Playing the bully are we? That's "mature" isn't it.
Do you suffer from selective retention? I NEVER attacked the Mod Staff. What the heck are you talking about?
This is all about you and me. I have no problem with the Mod staff here.
I'd appreciate it if you would stop the trolling already. It really is very unbecoming of you and at the very least, not very professional.
I do however agree with you about seeking out a guitar shop where the guitars are better cared for. I'll give you that.
I will make an effort to only post positive reviews in this section the next time I am unfortunate enough to play a Martin guitar........................................... :D

[bobeau]

Originally posted by Timmo
Finally someone who is on the same page. Sorry to tell you this for you maybe "tarred & feathered" because of it.

Nah, I don't think people have a problem with you hating Martins... more like someone else mentioned, saying people who dig 'em have no taste. It made it personal.

For instance, I participate on a music forum where most of the folks are pretty elitist about their likes. Every so often someone starts a thread on some (seemingly) made-for-MTV concoction that ends up in a locked thread. Some folks will pick apart the music and that seems to go over without too much fuss, but where it gets out of hand is when someone says "their fans are stupid teenagers", assailing the fans, esp. those who may be the furthest thing from that mold. I just plain stay out of these things - except when it actually happened in reverse one time. A thread on <insert some band you can't stand>, the OP ended with "if you like good music and have an open mind you have to check them out". So I quoted this and replied "it's weird, whenever anyone says something like this I always end up disspointed. Prolly cause I'm a close-minded good music hating bastard". It was a naive thing to say, making some sort of value judgement on the audience. Granted if it was a band I thought was pretty good it wouldn't have registered in my mind (ie. preaching to the choir), but when it goes against the grain of what you strongly feel and then someone is attacking that... well, there go the emotions.

[tommyg]

Let's see if my $.02 worth can straighten out some things here...

I do not own a Martin but have played countless of them. My teacher back in the mid-80's had a D-28 that was modeled after his dad's pre-war D-28 (the one's with the herringbone trip and snowflake inlays).

They are - IMO - the most BOOMING guitars I have ever heard and played. You string these bad boys up with .013 gauge strings and you'll clear the room out, then again, they were constructed soley for that purpose (i.e., to play with no assistance of a PA system). They're loud, bassy, full, and rich. There is a thing called "the Martin Sound" just like the Gibson Sound and the Fender Sound. The Martin had a fat V-neck with high action. Why? He and his father were Bluegrass players and this was setup accordingly. Country players (and Bluegrass players in particular) LOVE Martin's; it epitomizes the genre. Forget the Taylor, Takamine crowd; these guitars are set up to play easier (i.e., lower action) like electric guitars and were constructed to "cater" to the electric crowd.

They tend to be "sweeter" sounding - but not better. Remember folks: beauty is in the "ears" of the beholder. Personnally, I never played a Taylor (Lord knows I played tons over my lifetime) that made me go "WOW!" as well as many other guitars (e.g., Bourgouis, Rain Song, Takamine, Tacoma, Gibson Montana series) but that certainly doesn't make me go running around and saying people are "tone deaf", etc.. because it didn't stir my soul. It simply did not give me what I wanted in the guitar I was searching for.

I presently have a beautiful Yairi YC-2 acoustic guitar that is similar to a parlor guitar with a cutaway (think of the Larrivee). Lovely guitar for acoustic jazz, folk, light clean lead lines, etc., which I love to play soft interludes with...BUT....it is NOT for country/bluegrass and acoustic blues! I always have and always LOVED that Martin sound which will fill these gaps (i.e., country/bluegrass and acoustic blues) and when I manage to scrape together the bucks you can bet I'll add either a HD-28 or a D-35 (with the V-neck) to my collection.

:)

[Bluzsteel]

Originally posted by tommyg
Let's see if my $.02 worth can straighten out some things here...

I do not own a Martin but have played countless of them. My teacher back in the mid-80's had a D-28 that was modeled after his dad's pre-war D-28 (the one's with the herringbone trip and snowflake inlays).

They are - IMO - the most BOOMING guitars I have ever heard and played. You string these bad boys up with .013 gauge strings and you'll clear the room out, then again, they were constructed soley for that purpose (i.e., to play with no assistance of a PA system). They're loud, bassy, full, and rich. There is a thing called "the Martin Sound" just like the Gibson Sound and the Fender Sound. The Martin had a fat V-neck with high action. Why? He and his father were Bluegrass players and this was setup accordingly. Country players (and Bluegrass players in particular) LOVE Martin's; it epitomizes the genre. Forget the Taylor, Takamine crowd; these guitars are set up to play easier (i.e., lower action) like electric guitars and were constructed to "cater" to the electric crowd.

They tend to be "sweeter" sounding - but not better. Remember folks: beauty is in the "ears" of the beholder. Personnally, I never played a Taylor (Lord knows I played tons over my lifetime) that made me go "WOW!" as well as many other guitars (e.g., Bourgouis, Rain Song, Takamine, Tacoma, Gibson Montana series) but that certainly doesn't make me go running around and saying people are "tone deaf", etc.. because it didn't stir my soul. It simply did not give me what I wanted in the guitar I was searching for.

I presently have a beautiful Yairi YC-2 acoustic guitar that is similar to a parlor guitar with a cutaway (think of the Larrivee). Lovely guitar for acoustic jazz, folk, light clean lead lines, etc., which I love to play soft interludes with...BUT....it is NOT for country/bluegrass and acoustic blues! I always have and always LOVED that Martin sound which will fill these gaps (i.e., country/bluegrass and acoustic blues) and when I manage to scrape together the bucks you can bet I'll add either a HD-28 or a D-35 (with the V-neck) to my collection.

:)

Great post. Martins are not easy guitars to play. Ive had people pick up my guitar and say holy shit. 13 - 56 baby is not for the weak. the thing I really like about Martins are when you hit them harder they get louder , most other guitars just bottom out the harder you hit them !!!!!


Timmo, Ive been dying to ask this . what city do you live in and what store did you try out all the Martins that they had ? one of us might be in your town and have tried out these guitars ! hell maybe one of us bought one there. how about it.

[jimmybcool]

I've been enjoying this thread. Gosh, when are you gonna attack kittens or apple pie Timmo :D

I have 3 acoustic guitars. My old Guild D-50 from 1970s, a new Martin DC-AURA and a McPherson.

Since the topic is Martins I'll start on that. I played and listened to many guitars in the store when I bought the Martin. Collings, Raintree, Guild, Fender and Martin.

At the end of the day, the DC-AURA won. Personally, I am still having trouble with the action on it. It is back in the shop being setup as low and easy as we can get it (too much time on the electrics I guess). But the tone has always been very good. Great bass and clear treble. And the mids don't get lost. And the AURA system is perfectly mated to the guitar. Great sound.

Maybe I just got a good one. I don't know. But to my ear it sounded as good as the Collings.

At the end of the day I am still waiting to be impressed when the action is improved. Then I will decide if I really like it. But, I don't really care anymore since I bought the McPherson. I am tempted to sell the Martin and never look back.


If McPherson had been in stock the first day I would never have bought the Martin. McPhersons are in a whole nother league in build quality, tone, action, everything. And there is only one thing wrong with them. EXPENSIVE. Otherwise me likes too much. :dude

[Gazza]

Originally posted by Bluzsteel
Great post. Martins are not easy guitars to play. Ive had people pick up my guitar and say holy shit. 13 - 56 baby is not for the weak. the thing I really like about Martins are when you hit them harder they get louder , most other guitars just bottom out the harder you hit them !!!!!


So true. When I got my very first Martin I didn't like it all that much because it did seem hard to play. Knowing they are great guitars I stuck with it and now Martins w/13's play like butter and sound phenomenal. No looking back for this kid.

[rul8agn]

I have an amazing 2003 Martin HD28V. I couldn't care less who likes or dislikes my guitar, because I love it. The action is perfect. I have it set up with 13's and like someone said before, it plays like butter. I just had a K&K Pure Western installed this weekend and that is one beautiful natural sounding pickup. I also bought the K&K Pure Preamp which only made it better. Not a bad setup for less than $200. Now back on topic, I have played some below average sounding Martins before. I have also played some amazing ones. I could probably name every brand and every model and describe them the same way, some bad, some good, some amazing. Take your time find an amazing one, don't worry about the name on the headstock, and buy it on the spot.

[jimmybcool]

OK. Before anyone reads my post WARNING. I am under the influence of a very potent mix of port and cognac. Yes, jimmy is a very happy camper at this moment.

OK, if you are still reading. I picked up my Martin at the dealers today. I was very unhappy with it before. The action was high, the action was stiff as hell, I just didn't like it. It sounded great but I could not play it. I was gonna sell it for whatever just to get rid of it.

Not now. I have a very good dealer. He lowered the action, filed the nut (whatever the heck that means) and put slightly lighter strings on it. The DC-AURA is now SWEEEET. After this post (drunk and all) I am going to play some more. Helloooooo bad james Taylor immitation. If I can get my wife to have some of my port/cognac she might sing along.

Life is good when you have a sweet guitar and good port and cognac to mix. :dude

[mc5nrg]

Somewhat off topic for this "debate" but..
I own a 018 that I bought at Chuck Levin's around 1984...I think it probably had been baking in the display case for years.I figured it would be pretty stable and once looked up the serial number and IIRC found it was pretty old NOS.While not perfect- it had & has a big scratch on the back and the high E is a little close to the edge-it sounds great,plays easy and I've been quite happy with it.USA grovers natch.

Yesterday doing the tour of assisted living facilities and nursing homes that care for my parents I happened across 2 Martins.A resident at one has a 1962 0018 almost dead mint w/$275 tag,list probably.Played great once I tuned it,low action from the nut to the body,no neck set issues.Words can't adequately describe how nice it sounded or how easily it played and this instrument is not regularly played.
Low and behold one of the folks playing Xmas tunes at the nursing home had a Martin D35.Turned out the guitar had plenty of backstory. The woman who owned it had bought it new in the 70s and played it at legendary venues like the Childe Harold and Mr.Henry's, it had been stolen and returned to the owner who found it in a storied and now gone NoVa store.I wasn't nearly as impressed with the D35 but really just strummed it a bit while standing.

Personally I prefer small body acoustics rather than dreads.Depending on who you ask Martin currently is enjoying a business and quality revival or has lost something due to record production.Personally,I like mine but can't really comment on their current product.I'd recommend the smaller bodied guitars,especially if you don't need a bluegrass oriented instrument.60's 00s might be really great and not real expensive by today's inflated price standards.

[lhallam]

I worked in a music store in the late 70's where we sold Martins. Some were nice but not spectacular and some didn't float my boat at all as they were dead sounding.

Martin has a lifetime guarantee, so if your ax has a problem they'll fix it and our store had a loaner for those who sent their gtr in for repair. It was a beat-to-hell D-45, only this side of looking like Willy Nelson's gtr. Wow, what a gtr!!! That ax had all the full sounding qualities that I'd hear on Doc Watson records.

It doesn't surprise me that Timmo didn't find a jewel because our store had lots of 70's Martins but the loaner was the only one that had "that" sound.

All of that being said, some posting styles here could use a little polishing, just don't use Martin gtr polish. ;)

[matte]

but, the only guitar I've kept has been my 1986 Martin OM 28 HB cutaway. Just had it overhauled(top cracks repaired, new bridge, new nut, refretted with Bar frets, fingerboard resurfaced to play like you read about all the way to the 22nd fret) by luthier extraordinaire, Dominick Ramos.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/8867211/121805894.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/8867211/121805893.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/8867211/121805892.jpg

[Mike Dresch]

Wow, interesting looking frets there Matte. Just curious, what's the advantage of bar frets verses a normal type of fret?

[matte]

Wow, interesting looking frets there Matte. Just curious, what's the advantage of bar frets verses a normal type of fret?The main benefit for me is an incredibly high fret for bending and vibrato.

[drezdin]

Very cool fret idea. Is that something Mr. Ramos has come up with? That's a beauty btw.

[matte]

Very cool fret idea. Is that something Mr. Ramos has come up with? That's a beauty btw. Thanks. Check this link for Bar Fret info:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/General/Glossary/BarFrets/barfrets.html

[Trandy]

I have been selling Martin guitars for over 20 years. I have heard some great old Martin guitars....but old does not a great guitar make....it's about the particular guitar...not the age.

With that much said I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Martin guitars they are making now are just fine....maybe the best ever from a QC viewpoint. Martin flat out owned the "Made in USA" guitar market for a very long time...maybe I should say they dominated it.

Now with Collings, Bourgeois, Froggy Bottom, Santa Cruz,Taylor, etc. the bar has been raised quite a bit...and I think, after stumbling a bit initially, Martin has responded in spades. It's hard to argue with a D-18GE from a traditional tonal aspect. However, that may not be what you are looking for...and if not...so be it. There's plenty of other guitars to consider in all the price ranges.

Generalizing is never a good thing...what works just fine for one person may be absolutely poison for the next. And, you know, they're just guitars and there's plenty of them out there.

[matte]

Now with Collings, Bourgeois, Froggy Bottom, Santa Cruz,Taylor, etc. the bar has been raised quite a bit...and I think, after stumbling a bit initially, Martin has responded in spades. Couldn't agree more. I love Collings but I've played plenty of new Martins that were doing all the same things for me that Bill's guitars do.

[IIIBOOMERIII]

Martin Guitars hhmmmmm, where to begin? Let me start off by saying they are probably the best sounding acoustic guitars on the planet. They have more deep bottom end and overall volume than any guitar made….ANY guitar. I own an HD-28 and an HD-1932.

While Martin’s sound GREAT I do have a complaint. They are actually difficult guitars to set up and play. Martins are guitars that tend to fight you as you play them. This alone is the single most difficult issue to try to understand. No matter what gauge of strings you use they are difficult to play. However, I believe their superb tone and volume make this an issue that is worth tolerating.

I absolutely LOVE how Taylor guitars play. They are very comfortable to play and string tensions seem to be very light on these instruments, they are a very easy playing guitar. However, they sound thin and tinny. It is this issue with tone that makes me shy away from Taylor guitars. I really do love playing these instruments; I just cannot get passed the tone.

The last guitar I bought was a CA Legend. I love this guitar. It is amazing to me that this guitar sounds rich and full and there is NO WOOD in this guitar….with the exception of the finger board. These instruments sound awesome. They are not as warm sounding as a Martin but they are close. You can actually abuse these guitars and do things you can not do with a wooden guitar. You can leave them in a hot car all day long and they do not care. When going from one environment to another they do not need time to adjust.

Martins still are and always will be the holy grail of tone in acoustic guitars, they are not for everyone, and yes, they are worth every penny.

[jimmybcool]

Boomer

I have only played one Martin (mine) for any length of time and I agree that the way it came from the factory it was very difficult to play. The day after I bought it I was wondering if I could return it.

I went back and my guitar pusher (gotta feed the jones) said he could lower the action.

So they worked on the thing a bit using a lower saddle and did some other magic to the nut and some slightly lighter strings and in the end I still got the tone and NOW it plays well. I think it was worth the extra effort.

I asked him why would Martin ship an expensive guitar from the factory with such high action. He noted that some people are pretty much strummers and the higher action is easier to play without any fret buzz plus apparetnly you get more volume that way.

Any case my meager experience mirrors yours. Hard to play until it was setup for my taste.

[matte]

Sure, durring the 70's, 80's and part of the 90's, Martins weren't great. I couldn't disagree more. My Martin was built in 1986. It's the only guitar that I've kept. The Schoenberg OMs were built by Martin (tuned by Dana B)in the "80s as well.

[jimmybcool]

Travis

First of all I would like to know where you work that carries all those lines. WOW. :AOK

I am no expert and my opinions don't carry the same weight as yours. I can only comment on what my ears and fingers sense.

I agree about the Martins. I recently bought a DC-AURA and can not be happier with it. If it doesn't sound good then my ears are no good.

I would disagree about the McPherson. I also bought one of these with the Redwood Sprice top and Quilted Maple sidea and back. It sounds great.

But people can disagree. :D

[ChrisP]

Taylor / Martin

I bought my 000-16 Martin at Chuck Levin's about 5 years ago. I bought the cheapest all wood Martin. That was my budget...

I was primarily an electric player so I asked the salesman for a benchmark acoustic...he grinned and handed me a 2200 taylor...it played like absolute butter...very nice...He then started handing me guitars left and right for the next couple hours, mainly taylors...it seemed like he wanted me to buy one. Maybe he was just into taylors.

THEN he handed me the 000-16 ($1K guitar). I played one chord and was sold. It played NOTHING like the taylor, but it had THAT tone. I kept playing for another hour but I knew that guitar was the one for me.

It is such a sweet sounding guitar. I was getting lost in it last night.

[1959burst]

i own a new 2002 custom d-45 and custom d-42.........................utterly amazing guits.

[Heliman]

I can not speak for all Martins, but my D-41 is one of the best sounding guitars I have heard or played in my 54 years. It is not as bright or as easy to play as my Taylor 914-C, but to call it a toneless, vibeless, volumeless, dead sounding dog is going a wee bit off the deep end in my opinion. :eek:

[jimmybcool]

Travis,

Its OK. I see you are in Nashville and I doubt I'll get out that way. I just envy your work that puts that level of quality and variety in your hands daily.

But I'll not whine. Between my Markin, McPherson and old Guild D-50 I feel I have more than enough instruments. What I need is more skill. And that will take time ande effort.

[bobeau]

I should drop by my friendly neighborhood acoustic guitar supermart to see what this baby sounds like

http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images20000-20999/ngb20356-martinom28gesb/index.html

Only $13k or so out the door...

[KenSea]

I have owned Collings, three Martins and a Goodall. I can truely say the current Martin I own is the best guitar I have had. With that being said the problem with Martin is they build guitars like a carpenter would build a house, he pulls off the next 2x4 and goes with. Martin doesnt match tops with back and sides, so it comes out ok and sometimes even great. This is true even in there custom shop guitars. Many small shops have ways of matching their tops to the back and sides by either tapping or weighing the tops. Many of the Martins are very expensive, $5000.00 or more and for that they need to expect more from their production , I know I do.

[jokerjkny]

dunno where you're shopping,

but all the martins i've tried at Mandolin Bros. (www.mandoweb.com) and Acoustic Roots (www.medleynet.com) have been actually above par what i expected.

me thinks you walked into a GC. ;)

[KenSea]

When was the last time you saw Collings and Goodall hanging with Martins at Guitar Center? Look at the finish on even a custom Martin and then at Collings, Huss and Dalton, Froggy Bottom, Goodall to name a few and tell me Martin spends the time finishing their guitars the way others do.
Incase You missed my comment. the Martin I have right now is the best acoustic guitar I have ever had in terms of sound.:YinYang

[lydog]

Another vote here for Martin.

My pops has a '71 D-28 that I grew up with and loved (still do).

My first acoustic was a mid-level Takamine. It was a great value, sounds pretty damn good, and has stood the test of time. (The inside is literally splattered with blood from a drunken hootenany in college when I wore my finger out strumming for hours!)

Last year I decided buy an acoustic exculsively for home/studio use. I shopped in the $3k range at McCabe's in LA. They carry 80% of the brands mentioned here. I started out with 25-30 guitars and narrowed it down to 3 that I played, and listened to others play. The guitar I bought: Martin J-40.

This year, I upgraded my guitar for gigs. I got a Taylor 615ce with the Expression System. I liked the 600 series guitars I played and thought the guitar would be a nice contrast for studio use with my J-40, while at the same time being a legit guitar for gigs. But it just doesn't hold a candle to the Martin in terms of tone. It's nasally and flat. When I was in the studio, I never even used it as the Martin sounded better for every track. Just last week the Exp System went kaput, and now I'm considering ditching it altogether, leaning towards another Martin w/ the Sunrise pickup system.

[Tag]

I stopped into a new chain store that recently opened up in my city and on the wall were a decent selection of Martin acoustics of which I have been looking forward to playing.
Well, my bud and I begin to dig into some of these beauties and WOW ! Every last one of them was a complete DOG!
Toneless, vibeless, volumeless, you name it they DIDN'T HAVE IT!
We played models on the low side in price all the way up to the high side ( over $3,000 is high side to me ) and not one had anything whatsoever interesting about it.
How in the world does Martin Guitars stay in business nowadays with all these other builders putting out far superior products?
I am sorry to say but you new Martin guitar lovers are just plain "tone deaf" I guess. I am amazed Martin is still around.
LOUSY, lousy guitars! Pretty, but plain LOUSY!
Whew...........I just feel better now thank you. :)

I go to Mandolin brothers all the time, and play all of the vintage and top end builders guitars side by side. The stock Martin guitars sound as good and better than anything being made today. A decent HD 28 (which are AMAZINGLY consistent) sound better than just about any other guitar I have found, costing 10-15 times more. Top of the line Monteleone, Walker, Santa Cruz, Taylor, Bourgeois, Goodal, Collings and on and on. Stock Martins just sound better. A STEAL at the price they are asking for them tonally speaking.

[JPERRYROCKS]

I should drop by my friendly neighborhood acoustic guitar supermart to see what this baby sounds like

http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images20000-20999/ngb20356-martinom28gesb/index.html

Only $13k or so out the door...


You're going to pay through the nose to get Brazillian Rosewood from Martin. It's way overpriced, IMO. You're paying for the name and overhead. You can get a top notch Brazillian guitar from many top independent luthiers for $6-7,000.

[Ogre]

There are many guitar makers who are offering product that I think eclipses Martin. They would be: Trauggot, Lowden, Froggy Bottom, Bashkin, Claxton and Santa Cruz. Keep an open mind, and listen with your ears and not your eyes.

[johnlg]

I'm biased; I own seven Martins.

Martin Co. refuses to ship new guitars with coated strings.

The "coated strings vs. non-coated string" debate is a firey debate with most Martin players

Taylor ships with coated strings.
Larrivee Ships with coated strings.
Yamaha ships with coated strings.
(I could go on and on.)

The marketing folks at Martin believe that coated strings fail to bring out 100% of the potential tone ina guitar. I believe that one month old coated strings sound much better than one month old traditional strings that have picked up persperation, body oils and moisture from 200 customers handling a guitar in a guitar shop.

The marketing folks at Martin believe that the shop owners should change the strings on the Martins in their shops frequently. I dissagree. I really don't want the 16 year old at Guitar Center who makes $6.15 per hour restringing the HD-28V that I'm looking at. I especially don't want him restringing that HD-28V on a bi-weekly basis.

In business, we get one chance to make a first impression. When I walk into a large store and see shiney perfect strings on the Larrivees and Taylors and the MArtin strings are green and crusty and they look like they have snot chunks, it really makes me sad.

I play D'Addario EXP (coated) strings 12-53's. I think that the Martin coated product feels very brittle. I know very few people who play Martin coated strings. The EXP's have an elastic quality that I love for fingerstyle.

I wish that Chris IV could just buy a company that makes a good coated string.

It's the strings.

John

[KenSea]

[quote=johnlg]

I think that the Martin coated product feels very brittle. I know very few people who play Martin coated strings.



I know very few people that use coated strings period. I can't personally see spending a lot of money on a fine instrument and then putting coated strings on it. I wash my hands before playing my guitars and the strings last a long time on both my guitars. I agree with Martin, the shops that carry Martin and other fine guitars should have enough pride to keep the guitars sounding good by keeping fresh strings on them. The shop I go to, DustyStrings in Seattle does a great job of changing the strings so that the instruments sound there best. It just seems the professional thing to do.

[KenSea]

There are many guitar makers who are offering product that I think eclipses Martin. They would be: Trauggot, Lowden, Froggy Bottom, Bashkin, Claxton and Santa Cruz. Keep an open mind, and listen with your ears and not your eyes.

I think there are a lot of great guitars out there with many labels. Right now mine is the Martin OM28V. I have had a Goodall, a Collings and now the Martin. But for every great guitar there are many more that arent so great. I have a friend that has a Froggy Bottom H , tonally his guitars sound very simular to mine, slightly richer but not as dynamic. Both great guitars. I droll over his, as his has Madisgascar Rosewood back and sides:NUTS.

[jimfog]

The main benefit for me is an incredibly high fret for bending and vibrato.

Interesting..........

Norman Blake......not a big "bend and vibrato" guy also swears by big bar frets...sez it makes teh notes "jump out" a bit more.....
..on an old 12 fret Martin, of course......AND has the tone of the gods!

-jim

[jimfog]

I go to Mandolin brothers all the time, and play all of the vintage and top end builders guitars side by side. The stock Martin guitars sound as good and better than anything being made today. A decent HD 28 (which are AMAZINGLY consistent) sound better than just about any other guitar I have found, costing 10-15 times more. Top of the line Monteleone, Walker, Santa Cruz, Taylor, Bourgeois, Goodal, Collings and on and on. Stock Martins just sound better. A STEAL at the price they are asking for them tonally speaking.
I dunno, Tag-aroo......

You might be letting your hyperbole get in the way of your objectivity.....lol.

I used to work at, and spend lots of of time at Acoustic Roots (now at Medley Music), another super-duper top-end acoustic gitbox shop.........pick of the litter, well-maintained Martins, Collings, Santa Cruz, Goodall, etc.......

Now, don't get me wrong I LOVE me a good Martin....and my next big acoustic purchase will probably be an OM-18 of some ilk.....

BUT, take a Santa Cruz Tony Rice Pro or a Collings D2H (in dreads), or any Goodall (for that sparkly, alt tuned fingerstyle stuff), or a Tippin or Froggy Bottom mid-sized....or MANY of these new-era killer acoustics.....and you WILL be knocked on your ass with TONE, as you might say.

No they didn't invent the wheel........plenty of props to Martin for that.

But, in your parlance, think of them as Bruno amps, and think of Martin as Fender amps.

Sure, the Fenders are unbelievable and they are the gold standard and they CREATED the standard for everyone else to strive for......, and the right one is ALL you need in an amp...no matter the cost.

But, as you might say, Bruno took that standard and refined it to the next level.

I (you, anyone) could be happy with that HD-28 for the rest of my life.

But, in the back of mind, I can't deny what that Brazilian Tony Rice Pro sounded like!

We should go hang someday....either down here at Acoustic Roots, or up at Mando Bros, and play some. I don't want to convince you there's anything wrong with martin.....just that there's SO much RIGHT with some of the others.

Cheers,

Jim
(who plays a Taylor 710 Ce on 200+ gigs a year....cause it plugs in good, is easy to play, and if it drops....oh well. But I KNOW what I'm missing!! )

[Tag]

I dunno, Tag-aroo......

You might be letting your hyperbole get in the way of your objectivity.....lol.

I used to work at, and spend lots of of time at Acoustic Roots (now at Medley Music), another super-duper top-end acoustic gitbox shop.........pick of the litter, well-maintained Martins, Collings, Santa Cruz, Goodall, etc.......

Now, don't get me wrong I LOVE me a good Martin....and my next big acoustic purchase will probably be an OM-18 of some ilk.....

BUT, take a Santa Cruz Tony Rice Pro or a Collings D2H (in dreads), or any Goodall (for that sparkly, alt tuned fingerstyle stuff), or a Tippin or Froggy Bottom mid-sized....or MANY of these new-era killer acoustics.....and you WILL be knocked on your ass with TONE, as you might say.

No they didn't invent the wheel........plenty of props to Martin for that.

But, in your parlance, think of them as Bruno amps, and think of Martin as Fender amps.

Sure, the Fenders are unbelievable and they are the gold standard and they CREATED the standard for everyone else to strive for......, and the right one is ALL you need in an amp...no matter the cost.

But, as you might say, Bruno took that standard and refined it to the next level.

I (you, anyone) could be happy with that HD-28 for the rest of my life.

But, in the back of mind, I can't deny what that Brazilian Tony Rice Pro sounded like!

We should go hang someday....either down here at Acoustic Roots, or up at Mando Bros, and play some. I don't want to convince you there's anything wrong with martin.....just that there's SO much RIGHT with some of the others.

Cheers,

Jim
(who plays a Taylor 710 Ce on 200+ gigs a year....cause it plugs in good, is easy to play, and if it drops....oh well. But I KNOW what I'm missing!! )


Hey Jim,
I have played many Santa Cruz, Froggy bottom, Collings, Goodall, Bourgeois, Avalon, Lowden and others. Mando usually has many of each ion stock. I truly think Martins sound better. I like the bigger bottom end that ALWAYS seems to be lacking in other brands, and that sweet Martin top end. I could care less about names. Its just Ill pick up one of these other brands and play them, and they sound great! Then I pick up a comparable Martin, and its over. Besides Martin, Walkers would have to be my favorite flat top Acoustics. Have you ever played a Walker? Also, a John Monteleone flat top I played knocked me out. (Surprised me, because I have not cared for his archtops) However, again, it (Monteleone) sounded very similar to a Martin, but no better.

Would love to meet you over at Mando sometime! I LOVE that place! The coffee at the little deli a few doors down is always good too. STRONG!! Lol!


Here is the Monteleone that blew me away.

http://www.larkstreetmusic.com/list/pict/mont42.jpg

[rh]

I've got a '94 Martin J-18M (~400 were made) that I took out for some playing a few months back. Sounded very ordinary. One of the guys there tossed me a set of strings as I headed out at the end of the evening, and a few days later I changed them.

I'm not an acoustic guitar geek, and can't argue Martin vs Taylor vs <?>. But a string change was apparently LONG overdue. Definitely brought this guitar to life.

[funkycarnivore]

I have an inexpensive Martin that I bought here at TGP and I like it a lot. Can't complain. I hope I'm not tone deaf!

[Boogie92801]

I use to own a J-40 that was one of the best sounding acoustics I ever played, problem was it did not have a pup and it had high action and sad intonation so I sold it and bought a taylor that worked very well for the stage - but it never sounded as good. Then I sold that and went through a few and I now have a very nice Gibson J-100 extra and it played well and sounds great. BUT I was recently in a guitar store and I was playing all kinds of fancy gibsons ad some high end taylors that were nice. But they had a J41 with really black strings and a bunch of smuges and it smoked all of the new stringed fancy taylors and Gibsons. Even with compleatly dead strings you could still tell that it had a glorious tone. It played and tuned well (even with dead strings). So I don't buy the dead string story. There are killer Martins out there you just have to play a few. They also had a 1961 00028 that was a canon and felt like pure inspiration in your hands but it was the high side of 6g's.

[Blindspot]

I love Martins. I have a bunch. Schweet. The notion of condemning them as...what was it - turds? - is absurd.

That having been said, I too spend time and Mando Bros. and the Goodalls, Collings, etc. are stunning. I think you will find that in a big chain store, the Martins (and others) are not set up properly, have tired strings, and will be diminished compared to how they would sound in a proper shop.

On a side note, this thread is quite old. I wonder if it would have lasted were it initiated today, and how long the originator would have been allowed to go on in the current fairly heavily moderated climate? Just curious.;)

[go7]

What do you guys think of a good Larrivee L-10 with inlay work? Say about 7 years old.

[Blindspot]

What do you guys think of a good Larrivee L-10 with inlay work? Say about 7 years old.

I think if it sounds good - play it. Some Larrivees are great.

[Galejt]

I had much the same experience as the original poster. I finally whipped out my wallet for a Breedlove, two actually. Phoenix for that sweet sounding Windham Hill sound and an OM-R for the Piedmont blues vibe.

[Chops]

I am sorry to say but you new Martin guitar lovers are just plain "tone deaf" I guess.

Beck
Eric Clapton
Buddy Guy
Laurence Juber
Graham Nash
Paul Simon
Norman Blake
Tom Petty
Steve Stills
Nancy Wilson
Peter Frampton
John Mayer
Steve Miller
Sting

Hmmm.

[nashvillesteve]

I have a tasty '74 Martin D-12-20 12 string and a Bourgeois (who used to work at Martin running the vintage recreation department IIRC) OM-18 style... a guy whose shop I feel is on par with any in the nation told me that it was the closest he'd played to a pre-war OM-18 since the last time he'd played a real pre-war OM-18... That made me feel really happy about my beloved $1200 (used) investment... I've played some great Martins, but don't even try at the big box shops, they're usually set up so poorly and with old strings. Luckily for me, I think I found a stripped-down OOO-28EC killer at a reasonable price point. I'd put it up against one of those... I've had more than a couple offers from guitarists who play it and want to buy it from me... fuggheddaboudit...

[Redhouse-Blues]

I have been looking for a higher end acoustic for for a while and since I owned a Martin DM and I liked it somewhat. I started out checking out Martins and no matter how many I tried, I couldn't find one I enjoyed playing, I played at least a dozen differnt models at guitarsale.com's shop. I'm a Strat player who plays lead and I really find a lot of acoustics hard to play. I really dig the Martin tone and if they made one with a C shape neck and low action, I'd buy it. After spending months trying out differnt brands, I ended up with a Gibson Songwriter Deluxe cutaway.

[jiml2.1]

I've been playing for over thirty years and have a good ear. I think the new martins are about as good as it gets. Maybe they just aren't your thing. I have several Gibsons, a Santa Cruz, and 2 martins. My Martin d18GE and my Santa Cruz OM are truly a great instruments ...

Funny, I felt the same about Gibsons in GC -- until the strings were changed, then and only then, did I appreciate the tone. I find the new Martins to be extremely consistent. If their "not your thing" then you did the right thing by not buying one ... I just have a tough time believing all those guitars sound so bad ...

[pickaguitar]

Martins are still 'glorious'.
Don't be fooled by the GCs and dead strings.

I just custom ordered a D28 Marquis Amberburst and it's all the acoustic I could ever want or hear. This guitar is stellar and is ripe with tone!

[Jeff Flowerday]

Love my J41 Special, it replaced both my Taylors. Now I'm jonesing for a Juber.

[Boogie92801]

Jeff were did you get the J41?

[senojnad]

I've had a Martin D-41 for over 5 years and love it. I A/B'd it against Taylors, other Martins (including a D28) and Gretsch. For me there was no comparison. Besides very fine tone, mine has exceptional sustain. Re: some earlier feedback here about using .13 strings -- my owner's manual is VERY specific about using nothing heavier than .12's.
Re: the list of tone-deaf players (above).... There are MANY others to add, including Willie Nelson, Fogelberg, Guthrie, Flatt.... and scores more. You could even through Presley on the list if you have a sense of humor... (A story in the Martin book says the Scotty Moore & Co. made him put the leather cover on his D-28 to deaden the sound. Seems the boys could not stand listening to The King's pickin'!!)

[Chops]

Re: the list of tone-deaf players (above).... There are MANY others to add, including Willie Nelson, Fogelberg, Guthrie, Flatt.... and scores more. You could even through Presley on the list if you have a sense of humor... (A story in the Martin book says the Scotty Moore & Co. made him put the leather cover on his D-28 to deaden the sound. Seems the boys could not stand listening to The King's pickin'!!)

Yeah, theres a lot more tone-deaf dummies out there I could have added to the list. I tried to limit it, though, to players I was pretty sure are using very recent-vintage Martins.

[Jeff Flowerday]

Jeff were did you get the J41?

Long & Mcquade

[Chiba]

I am sorry to say but you new Martin guitar lovers are just plain "tone deaf" I guess.
Always great when somebody can diagnose my difficulties over the internet without ever having met me.

I feel SO much better.

--chiba

[Jarick]

I played a bunch of Martins at GC a few years back when shopping for acoustics...I got the same impression. Boring, dull, lifeless guitars. Very dry.

Then I went to a local boutique store and played an early 70's D-28...absolutely perfect. Blew away a LOT of really expensive boutiques. Full tone, not restricted sounding, a little sparkle, a little boom, just perfect. I also played a custom shop D-28 from 1999 I think, that was just as good. I was blown away by both acoustics.

I bummed around online trying to figure it out, and the general consensus was that Martin owners found their guitars sounding better after playing them for a few months or even years. After a couple years, the guitar sounded as good as it would from that point on.

The working theory was that the wood needed to be vibrated or something to mellow out. Could be the pores, could be something, but it was definitely tangible. There was even a company that would vibrate acoustics to that end with some contraption.

I got lucky with my Tacoma (or Tahoma I can't remember)...got a D-20E which is like a D-28 with rosewood fretboard and a piezo for $350 on the 'bay. Top end is very reminiscient of a Martin although it sounds a bit boxy due to the laminate wood (it is about 10 years old, before they went all-solid).

So before you count out Martins, try playing one that's a few years old with some Martin strings on it. Great tone.

[Jarick]

Oh and one more thing about acoustics.

I hate Taylors with a passion. They are the anti-Martin. They have this plastic sounding top end that's very disconnected from kind of a weak body sound. Could be the bolt-on neck, I don't know. Most people love them because they're bright, but they just sound fake to me.

I said it.

[mikeo2]

Its really simple...

Martin should liquidate their accessory division and ship all their guitars with Elixirs. That way, they'll stay fresh hanging on the wall. Martin strings suck to being with and sound 100x worse after they've been on the wall a week.

Personally, I love my 00-15.

[alanbass1]

I am sorry to say but you new Martin guitar lovers are just plain "tone deaf" I guess. I am amazed Martin is still around.
LOUSY, lousy guitars! Pretty, but plain LOUSY!
Whew...........I just feel better now thank you. :)

Well, I recently purchased a Martin OMJM which I chose above a Collings 0002H, a couple of Taylors and a Goodhall TROM (although I have to admit the Goodhall slightly edged my Martin but was $4300 - which is $1800 more than I paid for the OMJM). I'm very happy with it, but I guess as I must be tone deaf liking a new Martin what do I know :crazy . I also like my '92 D45, but maybe I lucked out on this guitar as it isn't new :AOK .

[Lerxst2112]

I've only played a few Martins. They definitely weren't bad guitars, but I'll definitely be keeping my Larrivees (DV-09 and D-03R).

That D-03R is the best sounding acoustic I've ever heard... even beats my -09 series, but that's a different story.

[Bergle]

I used to work in a shop that sold Martins, and I have to admit to completely falling in love with them. I also changed as many of their strings as I could after new ones arrived. I am no fan of Elixirs (personal preference, which I guess is what we're talking about here anyway) so I went with D'Addario EXP's, which are perfect IMHO.
They're like any other builder: Some are great out of the box and will only get better. Some will get better in time. Some are dogs, or just not-as-great. It depends on a million things whether a guitar is great or not, and most of them happen after the instrument is built. FWIW, there are great boutique names out there but I'm saving up for a HD28LSV, or if I come into real money (:jo)a custom HD35LSV. The custom shop guitars are outstanding by the way. Sorry to go on like that.

To each his own.

[johneeeveee]

I stopped into a new chain store that recently opened up in my city and on the wall were a decent selection of Martin acoustics of which I have been looking forward to playing.
Well, my bud and I begin to dig into some of these beauties and WOW ! Every last one of them was a complete DOG!
Toneless, vibeless, volumeless, you name it they DIDN'T HAVE IT!
We played models on the low side in price all the way up to the high side ( over $3,000 is high side to me ) and not one had anything whatsoever interesting about it.


I find that hard to believe. I travel all over the country and play all kinds of acoustic guitars in different shops along the way. Although all reputable builders generally produce great and not-so-great guitars, I think it is ridiculous to make such a blanket statement about any make of guitar.

I will admit that most of the larger comapnies, Martin included, produce so many guitars these days that they probablyy aren't what they used to be.

Happy hunting - jv

[K-man]

I find that hard to believe. I travel all over the country and play all kinds of acoustic guitars in different shops along the way. Although all reputable builders generally produce great and not-so-great guitars, I think it is ridiculous to make such a blanket statement about any make of guitar.

I will admit that most of the larger comapnies, Martin included, produce so many guitars these days that they probablyy aren't what they used to be.

Happy hunting - jv

One word: Troll.

Although Martin makes alot of cheaper guitars these day, I think their vintage series are fantastic. I haven't played a Golden Era but those are supposed to be great too.

[ButchR]

Where's the man that started this?:)

[Terry Sleeper]

When you buy an acoustic guitar, ALWAYS remove the strings, wipe the guitar down & replace with new strings. A Martin should never let you down! Terry

[davess23]

This is definitely a trolling deal. But that said, I consider that Martin is for many reasons, no longer the gold standard in acoustic guitars. True, there's a long list of companies, large and small, making good, bad and indifferent copies of the classic Martin designs, but the Martin company itself has in many instances coped with its competition by compromising on quality in order to get product out there at various price points.

Good Martins, especially the better-known classic models, are generally excellent guitars. I've owned a few, including a D-35 that was my main guitar for two decades, and they compared very well with my current Collings and Santa Cruz instruments. But many of the newer Martin lower-end offerings are at best fair and at worst simply don't offer as much, quality and sound wise, as some of their competitors' models.

I have a lot of respect for the Martin brand. When I was growing up it was attached the very best flat-top acoustic guitars, and Martins were what the pros played. The logo alone was pretty much a guarantee of quality. Getting enough cash together to buy my first D-28 was a big deal, believe me. But it's that same respect for the Martin brand that causes me to be saddened and disgusted when I see the logo on some of the stuff they're currently putting out.

[Bergle]

...But it's that same respect for the Martin brand that causes me to be saddened and disgusted when I see the logo on some of the stuff they're currently putting out.

I'm with you there. I don't really consider anything with a number under 18 Martins. They're trying to hit a price point, and more power to them. Just my way of keeping perspective. From the Standard series on up, I've had few instances if disappointment with new Martins. With the prices of niche and boutique builders out there, a D-28 can seem like a deal. I say what I say to anyone buying any guitar amp or pedal: Play everything you can get your hands on. You never know if the next one with be the one.

[Peppy]

I consider that Martin is for many reasons, no longer the gold standard in acoustic guitars. True, there's a long list of companies, large and small, making good, bad and indifferent copies of the classic Martin designs, but the Martin company itself has in many instances coped with its competition by compromising on quality in order to get product out there at various price points.

Good Martins, especially the better-known classic models, are generally excellent guitars. I've owned a few, including a D-35 that was my main guitar for two decades, and they compared very well with my current Collings and Santa Cruz instruments. But many of the newer Martin lower-end offerings are at best fair and at worst simply don't offer as much, quality and sound wise, as some of their competitors' models.

I have a lot of respect for the Martin brand. When I was growing up it was attached the very best flat-top acoustic guitars, and Martins were what the pros played. The logo alone was pretty much a guarantee of quality. Getting enough cash together to buy my first D-28 was a big deal, believe me. But it's that same respect for the Martin brand that causes me to be saddened and disgusted when I see the logo on some of the stuff they're currently putting out.

Good points. I also own Santa Cruz guitars...two. I also own a 1929 Martin (just one of the small bodies from that time period). The Martin is at my brother-in-law's house in another state. I realize it's not comparable to some of the more "regular", i.e. larger and newer Martins. However, I tried many acoustic guitars over a decade or so until I finally played my first Santa Cruz. I bought it immediately and haven't looked back. Bought the other one just a few years later and I am now set in the acoustic realm.

[sicktone]

I have to say that I was in the "Martin-hater" camp for a while. It seemed that Larrivee, Taylor, etc. were doing it better for less in the 90's. A few years back one of the guys at Buffalo Bros told me to check out the mahogany Martin dreads. I was actually impressed by the sound for not a lot of $$$. I kind of forgot about it until a friend went on an "acoustic-hunt" in Northern California. When he got back he was raving about this $800 Martin 000-15s twelve fret. I figured it was a fluke so we went down to Buffalo Bros to check one out. We played through a lot of guitars, but each went home with the 000-15s. They are both amazing guitars for the money.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago. Back at BB's not really looking to buy and my buddy picks up this weird Martin OM with banjo tuners. The thing SANG!!! The most amazing sound both pick and fingerstyle. Turns out it was an OM-18 Golden Era Martin. After playing a bunch of other great guitars to compare I ended up trading in my Larrivee Custom Koa 12 and haven't missed that guitar since.

I'm not saying all new Martins are great, just that some new Martins ARE...

[johneeeveee]

I find that hard to believe. I travel all over the country and play all kinds of acoustic guitars in different shops along the way. Although all reputable builders generally produce great and not-so-great guitars, I think it is ridiculous to make such a blanket statement about any make of guitar.

I will admit that most of the larger comapnies, Martin included, produce so many guitars these days that they probablyy aren't what they used to be.

Happy hunting - jv
One word: Troll.

Although Martin makes alot of cheaper guitars these day, I think their vintage series are fantastic. I haven't played a Golden Era but those are supposed to be great too.
Hey K-man, I don't understand why you would call me a troll for my honest comment, unless you missunderstood me. I was simply saying that I find it hard to believe that every Martin in that store was a dog, and that I believe that blanket statements are silly.

I play a Martin as my main guitar and wouldn't trade it for the world, but I don't deny that there are some not so great one's out there, as with most builders. They do make some very fine instruments (IMO). That's all... no need for name calling :confused: - jv

PS - Unless the troll comment was aimed at the thread starter and I am just missunderstanding you?

[K-man]

Hey K-man, I don't understand why you would call me a troll for my honest comment, unless you missunderstood me. I was simply saying that I find it hard to believe that every Martin in that store was a dog, and that I believe that blanket statements are silly.

I play a Martin as my main guitar and wouldn't trade it for the world, but I don't deny that there are some not so great one's out there, as with most builders. They do make some very fine instruments (IMO). That's all... no need for name calling :confused: - jv

PS - Unless the troll comment was aimed at the thread starter and I am just missunderstanding you?

I was referring to the original poster, not you.

[johneeeveee]

I was referring to the original poster, not you.

Sorry... I understand now. It's hard to tell what's up sometimes with posts, and I'm somewhat new to this whole forum game (I'm learning). No worries.
Thanks - jv

[go7]

I have always enjoyed my Martin D16t. But have had a Larrivee L-10 which I much prefer. Both good guitars but to my ear the Larivee gets the nod.

[Bluzsteel]

I have to say that I was in the "Martin-hater" camp for a while. It seemed that Larrivee, Taylor, etc. were doing it better for less in the 90's. A few years back one of the guys at Buffalo Bros told me to check out the mahogany Martin dreads. I was actually impressed by the sound for not a lot of $$$. I kind of forgot about it until a friend went on an "acoustic-hunt" in Northern California. When he got back he was raving about this $800 Martin 000-15s twelve fret. I figured it was a fluke so we went down to Buffalo Bros to check one out. We played through a lot of guitars, but each went home with the 000-15s. They are both amazing guitars for the money.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago. Back at BB's not really looking to buy and my buddy picks up this weird Martin OM with banjo tuners. The thing SANG!!! The most amazing sound both pick and fingerstyle. Turns out it was an OM-18 Golden Era Martin. After playing a bunch of other great guitars to compare I ended up trading in my Larrivee Custom Koa 12 and haven't missed that guitar since.

I'm not saying all new Martins are great, just that some new Martins ARE...

that model if one of there best {000-15} , very loud and in your face. that was the one I was going to buy until I went to GC where I have a good friend that is the store manager and we took a new out of the box D- 28 V and it was a keeper for sure. thats the one I went home with.

[sicktone]

that model if one of there best {000-15} , very loud and in your face. that was the one I was going to buy until I went to GC where I have a good friend that is the store manager and we took a new out of the box D- 28 V and it was a keeper for sure. thats the one I went home with.

I really dig the V necks. Nice to hear that good things are coming out of the box from Martin!:AOK

[Ed Packer]

I recently acquired a Martin HD28-VS. It blows away my Gibson SJ150, my J-185's and my Taylor. Big sound, great mids, sparkling highs, and I love the sloped shoulders and slotted head. The V neck took some getting used too, tho.

[billyguitar]

Some stores overhumidify in the winter making some of the guitars REALLY dead.

[Pete Faragher]

Collings & Santa Cruz will put a larger dent in your wallet, but wow......they are everything Marting guitars ever *dreamed* of being!


+1.....Since seeing the new Neil Young film I have wanted a D-28. A MARTIN D-28. I have gone to two stores here that specialize in acoustics and played maybe 8-10 D28's. Not one of them spoke to me. They are not terrible but, they just lay there. On the other hand, the 3 Collings D2H's I played were spectacular. And the Clarence White model was even better. I also played a Santa Cruz and a Bourgeois that were stellar too. I know these are more expensive than the Martin, but now I am saving my pennies for one of those.......or maybe an old Martin D28. But those are rare and expensive.

[nashvillesteve]

http://www.pantheonguitars.com/images/VintageD_med.jpg

Bourgeois makes some sweet guitars alright...

[ricoh]

I have a couple of Martins from the early 90's. A 000-16C and a Custom15
They both sound absolutely phenominal and I bought them from Elderely unheard. Just lucky I guess. :jo
A Santa Cruz looked alluring but was too high $$$$$$$$$$$$ for me.

[60HzShuffle]

Well this post got my Martin gas going again, I picked up an awesome HD-28 from my friends at the local music store. I wish I had done this long ago...just one of the those definitive acoustic tones. :dude

[tga-3]

I've played a lot of guitars from the different makers as well. I always went back to Martins, it's the tone that is in my head. I've owned an early 90's D-41 (beautiful Engleman top), a 000-28EC, and a 70's M-38. I hate to see instruments just sitting around, they are meant to be played, and I decided my collecting days were over, so I took a chance around five years ago and ordered an Indian Rosewood Custom Shop M-38 with the soft V-shaped neck and an Adirondack top and forward shifted Adi braces. It's the most versatile guitar I could think of owning, great for fingerstyle or flatpicking, and a real bold tone. I think Martin released a David Bromberg Sig guitar a year or so ago which is very similar. It sounded great when I opened the case, and I can honestly say it really does get better with age. I can't wait to hear what it's going to sound like tomorrow. If I ever do it again, I'd trust Martin's Custom Shop to deliver.
FWIW,
Rick

[hemlock]

I love my HD28. Great balance all across the spectrum and plays very well. Just a superior acoustic guitar in all ways.

When I play with other folks on acoustic, the thing that sets my guitar, and many HD28s, apart from most others is apparent. Volume. Most of those other great guitars just sort of fade away compared to the Martin.

[AaeCee]

I'm amazed this zombie-like thread is still going. But that being so, I'll add that after a multi-year search, playing Collings, Froggy, Huss, Taylor, etc., I was impressed but unmoved. Came upon a '03 Martin D-41SP and wow. Felt and sounded like a living thing. Knew it almost immediately. Needless to say it's now a prized posession.

[levelfrets]

Simple. Don't buy from the chain stores. There is a local mom and pops store that sells Martin. They set everyone up and keep the strings fresh and they sound and play great. I've gone into these chain stores and they let the guitars go to pot. You pick them up and they have dead strings, bowed necks, etc... If your going to buy an american made guitar, buy one from a store that takes care of them and has CLIMATE CONTROL!!!!!

[Chris Scott]

I used to work at Norm's in L.A. years ago, and when you say Martin, I think of postwar to late 60's or so, and some of the monsters made back then that were worth every penny of the asking price. Having said that, I agree- 98% of 'em made after this era have left me cold, with some being downright abysmal. And you can tell what an axe has goin' on even if the wires are rusting off the fingerboard-- it's either got it, or it doesn't. --just my nickle's worth.

[xcycle]

I wonder if Martin and other builders don't hand pick the WORST guitars that come off the line and send those to the big chain stores.

I mean it kind makes sense to me because the GC's discount their stuff (not sure about Martin, but do know about Taylor and Gibson because my sis used to be Taylor dealer untill GC came in and was selling for less than the dealer was supposed to be allowing) and their patrons "Tend" (I said tend here so don't say I am dissing you if you are truly an experienced buyer) to be inexperienced buyers.

If I was a builder and was setting a selling strategy for big box stores that probably (correct me if I am wrong here but this is fact in other retailing businesses) have very nasty contracts that might include short ship penalties, pre agreed upon charge back off their prices based upon the fact that a certain number of damaged goods will come in resulting in loss of revenue, aggressive RTV policies, the fact that the big box stores won't give a Rat's Ass about the strings being dead or taking care of the guitars, the sales people very possibly won't have a clue or incentive to really find out what guitar you really need based on your style, experience etc and a host of other difficulties that I am sure some of you who have worked in retail know about.

I would think this could be a possible reason for lousy sounding Martins at GC's.

Oh by the way, I also have not found what I would deem a decent sounding Martin out of dozen's in the $800-$2000 range played at GC's. I have played a couple owned by friends that were outrageously good from top to bottom but very expensive ($8000+).

I play a Huss&Dalton dread and favor its overall balanced tone, smooth playing neck and somewhat forward mid. Close enough(for gov't work anyway) to the best Martins I have played in tone and volume, but easier to play.

Eric

[Bluzsteel]

I wonder if Martin and other builders don't hand pick the WORST guitars that come off the line and send those to the big chain stores.

I mean it kind makes sense to me because the GC's discount their stuff (not sure about Martin, but do know about Taylor and Gibson because my sis used to be Taylor dealer untill GC came in and was selling for less than the dealer was supposed to be allowing) and their patrons "Tend" (I said tend here so don't say I am dissing you if you are truly an experienced buyer) to be inexperienced buyers.

If I was a builder and was setting a selling strategy for big box stores that probably (correct me if I am wrong here but this is fact in other retailing businesses) have very nasty contracts that might include short ship penalties, pre agreed upon charge back off their prices based upon the fact that a certain number of damaged goods will come in resulting in loss of revenue, aggressive RTV policies, the fact that the big box stores won't give a Rat's Ass about the strings being dead or taking care of the guitars, the sales people very possibly won't have a clue or incentive to really find out what guitar you really need based on your style, experience etc and a host of other difficulties that I am sure some of you who have worked in retail know about.

I would think this could be a possible reason for lousy sounding Martins at GC's.

Oh by the way, I also have not found what I would deem a decent sounding Martin out of dozen's in the $800-$2000 range played at GC's. I have played a couple owned by friends that were outrageously good from top to bottom but very expensive ($8000+).

I play a Huss&Dalton dread and favor its overall balanced tone, smooth playing neck and somewhat forward mid. Close enough(for gov't work anyway) to the best Martins I have played in tone and volume, but easier to play.

Eric
my Marin D-28 Vintage came right out of the box from GC, one of the best sounding guitars Ive ever owned. perfect top as well.I relly dont belive the large chains get the dogs, if anything yoiu get a larger option to pick from. I guess all stores are differant, my local GC has a climate controlled Acoustic room. now the sting thing is always a sore subject, the reason mom and pop stores can keep new stings is they usually have a small inventory on hand , GC must have over 150 guitars in their room

[DrSax]

I don't know, but this place has about 100 Martins that are OUTSTANDING..

www.mandoweb.com

Martins are great, you just have to get the right one. Just like anything else...

[Bryan T]

First off, I'm amazed that this thread is still going.

Re: Martin selling their worst guitars to the big box stores. While I find the idea intriguing, I seriously doubt that they do that. The big box stores are Martin's biggest customers and it seems unlikely to me that they would jeopardize that business relatioship by selling them their worst guitars. I do wonder if they choose not to send them their absolute best guitars, as I know there are a lot of long-standing personal relationships with smaller dealers and Martin.

Martin definitely still builds some amazing guitars. There have been two I've really enjoyed recently. The first is the "Arts and Crafts" limited edition - absolutely phenomenal with great tone and playability. The second is one of their "little Martins" that had a phenomenal midrange and treble tone. Not a lot of bass, but incredibly inspiring to play.

Bryan

[Boogie92801]

you can tell what an axe has goin' on even if the wires are rusting off the fingerboard-- it's either got it, or it doesn't. --just my nickle's worth. My thought exactly!

[GuitarsFromMars]

Those of you who like Martin guitars will be hateful,the rest of you,well...
I got through 4 pages of this thinking it might be something good to read-I just got my 1959 Martin 0-15 out of the shop where it spent 13 weeks getting some long overdue TLC-I think I'm gonna just go and play it...

[nashvillesteve]

I think the Big Box stores probably don't set up the guitars as well or have too many people !@#%ing around with them...

I played a EC sig. model that just didn't seem nice at all at a GC. It was a $3k guitar or something. But I don't blame Martin... I still prefer my Bourgeois OM-18 I found for $1250...

[Boogie92801]

Go on haten'.

I'll play my J-41 and be perfectly happy to know that you don't want it.

[fender23]

FWIW - I like my Martin. I like its sound, I like its fit and feel. I like its craftsmanship. Its an OM-42, some are more expensive, many are less expensive, but for me it fits the bill. Actually, I don't deserve a guitar that is nice as this OM-42, it sounds way better than I can play it. I think this discussion goes along the lines of Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infinity........
Martin, Santa Cruz, Huss and Dalton, Breedlove........to each his own.

[wlalpaugh]

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I've never been a fan of the martins I've played. Recently I went to a small store that sort of specializes in Martins. (They're located in Nazareth,Pa.), all of their Martins were in the cases, which were opened by their emoloyees only, and you sat to play after putting on an apron to protect the guitar. The employee would hand you whatever you wanted to play, and carefully wipe down the one you were finished with, and return it to it's case. I played several very excellent sounding Martins. The best sounding one I played was a new 000-18 Golden Era 1937. I've never heard or played a Martin that sounded like that guitar. The woody sound of mahogany was there with note clarity that took your breath away. They retailed the guitar for about 2400.00, wich was $800.00 less than the large chain store.

[choppermn]

Someone said they were expensive cause Clapton played one on Tears in Heaven. I like the way they sound.

[Bryan T]

Someone said they were expensive cause Clapton played one on Tears in Heaven. I like the way they sound.

Wasn't "Tears in Heaven" on a nylon string?

Bryan

[Mak]

I have also tried many Martins straight off the wall hanger in some good guitar shops. I found that those I tried in the Music super stores tended to be the poor players, often with dead strings and poor set-ups. I started visiting acoustic specialist stores and my faith was renewed, resulting in my buying the sweetest Martin I had ever played - an OM-28V. Thats the picking sorted, now I need a nice 'D' for the strummy stuff. Im hunting for a nice D28 or equiv <insert acoustic brand here>...

Whilst Im sure Martin do make some bad guitars, im guessing its like all things - there are good ones and bad ones and I have a theory that the big chain stores dont put so much time and effort into selecting their stock ("just send me 50 guitars..." as opposed to a specialist retailer going "this one sux, send it back").

Mak.

[FenderMartin]

I've read thru most of the thread and all I can say is.. WOW!

In the end, maybe I'm stupid, but my Martin is the best sounding guitar that I've ever heard. Sure, I'd trade it in a heart beat for a Pre-war D45, but I doubt anyone would do that.. so for now, I'm happy with my "Knock off" with a Sitka top!

to the original poster... if you think this guitar is crap, you're one tough guy to impress! (56K guys, sorry! :D )

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/198667871.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/183519979.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/182725626.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/183519981.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/200668011.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/200668008.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/200668004.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/200667997.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/200667994.jpg

[Boogie92801]

FenderMartin - I'm with you. That is a sweet guitar and let's face it Neil Young can't be wrong. He wrote alot of his stuff on D45.

My J41 is almost a sister to yours - minus the bling on the back and sides - just the front. But I love the snow flakes and I know that thing is a cannon.

[FenderMartin]

FenderMartin - I'm with you. That is a sweet guitar and let's face it Neil Young can't be wrong. He wrote alot of his stuff on D45.

My J41 is almost a sister to yours - minus the bling on the back and sides - just the front. But I love the snow flakes and I know that thing is a cannon.

So did Jimi Hendrix, Peter Frampton, Steven Stills, and so on, and so on...

Take care...

Sam

[hank]

Beautiful D-45! Congratulations. :)

[FenderMartin]

thanks Hank...

btw.. love the signature line!

[hank]

thanks Hank...

btw.. love the signature line!

Sometimes the truth IS the truth! :messedup

[daddyo]

My favourite local guitar shop sells both Larrivee and Martin. I bought a Larrivee L-03R (which sounds awesome) not because I have a bias but because the locally made Larrivee is less expensive for a given level of instrument. I played many of their Martins and many sound fantastic. All sounded at least very good. But these guys have humidified acoustic rooms for each brand. I used to have a bias against Gibson flat tops based on reports of the stuff they made in the 80s. But then I played a 2000 J45R. Wow. What a rich warm tone. Just wonderful. But even used and with a beer stained top, it was $800 more than the new Larrivee. It didn't sound better than the Larrivee, but different enough to make me desire one. A local chain also sells Larrivee and they had a 000-60 that just looked devine but it had two broken strings and nobody seemed to give a heck. Is that the way to sell a $2800 guitar?

[FenderMartin]

in the end Larrivee, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Goodall, et al all make great guitars.. technology has come a long way and where as Martin pioneered a lot of this stuff and is still in my view a leader, the rest are just as good.. If you want a full blown custom guitar, then you need to go to someone who makes them, if you want a "Classic" Dreadnought and that pre-war Martin tone.. then you need to start with an HD-28V and work towards an D-28 Authentic or D45 Marquis..

[nashvillesteve]

I think Larivee is one of the better makers out there and would look to them before "pay for the name" brands like Martin or Gibson. For now, I'm still plenty pacified by the Bourgeois OM-18 I've had for about 6 years now...

[guitarcec]

in the end Larrivee, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Goodall, et al all make great guitars.. technology has come a long way and where as Martin pioneered a lot of this stuff and is still in my view a leader, the rest are just as good.. If you want a full blown custom guitar, then you need to go to someone who makes them, if you want a "Classic" Dreadnought and that pre-war Martin tone.. then you need to start with an HD-28V and work towards an D-28 Authentic or D45 Marquis..
My father owns an HD-28VR (forerunner to the HD-28V that Martin currently makes), and I fell in love with it. It's easily one of the best sounding large-scale production guitars I've ever heard. When he was looking for that guitar, he and I went to about 5 music shops in Houston and played 5+ different guitars, and the one he bought was the only one that had "that classic pre-war Martin sound". When I was ready to buy myself a quality acoustic, I looked a little at Martins, but, like many of you poster's, couldn't find ANY that sounded good. I ended up buying a Collings D2H, which is basically a hand-made version of my dad's guitar, and apart from the newer, lighter top on the guitar, it's EXACTLY like his. They sound almost identical, and both, IMO, are perfect guitars. I've played about 10 Martin HD-28VR's, of which only 1 sounded any good at all, and about 5 Collings D2H's, of which all sounded incredible. That's the main difference I've seen - consistency. Here's a pic for you...:)

http://myspace-502.vo.llnwd.net/00485/20/52/485032502_l.jpg

[Bryan T]

I ended up buying a Collings D2H, which is basically a hand-made version of my dad's guitar, and apart from the newer, lighter top on the guitar, it's EXACTLY like his.

I'm sure it is a killer guitar (most Collings are), but there are a number of differences between the D2H and a Martin. The most obvious is the bolt-on neck construction of the Collings. A Collings can definitely have that old Martin sound, but they get there in a different way.

Bryan

[Tycho]

FenderMartin, that is one beautiful dread. I love the center strip on the back.

I'm a Larrivee guy myself, but I don't really get why anyone would knock Martins (I've got one of the cheaper ones myself). They're a bit like Fender: they've got a huge array of guitars all across the spectrum, ranging from nice to very nice to breathtaking.

One thing I do find is that Martins tend to be shipped with slightly high action, presumably on the theory that it's easier to lower the action after purchase than to raise it. That may deter some potential buyers.

I ended up lowering the action on my Martin after playing it for a few months, and it's played very nicely ever since.

[guitarcec]

I'm sure it is a killer guitar (most Collings are), but there are a number of differences between the D2H and a Martin. The most obvious is the bolt-on neck construction of the Collings. A Collings can definitely have that old Martin sound, but they get there in a different way.

Bryan
That's interesting, Bryan. I've taken a couple tours of the Collings factory, and even got to see them making MY guitar, and had no idea they were bolt-on necks! Thanks for the info. I took a look at your MySpace page, and I was wondering what model Santa Cruz you have - it's beautiful. I played a couple of them when I was looking for a new guitar and loved them. The Collings was just a bit more like my dad's guitar, though...

[Bryan T]

That's interesting, Bryan. I've taken a couple tours of the Collings factory, and even got to see them making MY guitar, and had no idea they were bolt-on necks! Thanks for the info. I took a look at your MySpace page, and I was wondering what model Santa Cruz you have - it's beautiful. I played a couple of them when I was looking for a new guitar and loved them. The Collings was just a bit more like my dad's guitar, though...

I was quite surprised that Collings are bolt-on necks, too. You'd never guess from the tone of the guitars.

I actually have a pair of Santa Cruz guitars - an OM/PW and a D/PW. I just got in from a recording session and the OM/PW sounded great. Well balanced with a great clarity to the high end.

Bryan

[FenderMartin]

I had a bolt on neck Taylor GS, and while it sounded "good" it was almost sterile in it's tone.. not warm and deep like the D45V, this 45 actually sounds better than it looks. It's really quite amazing, and I wish I was into recording so I could capture it's tone.

btw, I took advantage of taking it in for a setup to lower the action and added Walrus ivory saddle, nut, saddle to go with the Walrus bridge pins, and ivory end pin.. and I also just replaced the tortis Pickguard on it with a black one, courtesy of Martin, they sent it to me as I had originally wanted a black pickguard but they didn't get that detail down at my dealers. The sustain that the Walrus adds, without loosing any bass response is downright amazing!

here are the latest pics:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/201657074.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/201657077.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/11848030/201657080.jpg

[AaeCee]

Wow, that's a beauty! I own and still lust for my 'poor man's' version, a spectacular D-41SP. Best sounding/playing dread I've ever had in my hands, and I've tried a lot of them in that $3-$5000.00 price range.

[FenderMartin]

Let me hear a guitar maker make anything that sounds this good (and close to those original pre-war Martins), and I'll switch brands!
Just listen to the bass response (and this from a Mahogany body).

If they ever make a D45 Authentic, it's going to get ugly!


http://www.thepodium.com/mp3s/MartinD18Authentic.mp3

(borrowed from ThePodium.com)

[Alainlafrance]

Never tried the Stephen Stills D-45-SS ?
pure dream...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/alainlafrance/SS3.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/alainlafrance/SS5.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/alainlafrance/SS2.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/alainlafrance/SS1.jpg

[FenderMartin]

Alain, I expected so much from you! I know you from the Fender Forum (SamJ here), you're the reason I caught the Fender Custom Shop bug and am having a Fender Jazz bass built by Dennis Galuszka!

That D45SS is a certified wet dream! I've only heard one, never touched it.. I'd say besides a Pre-war D45, there is no finer sounding guitar I know of. Wana trade?? ;)

[Alainlafrance]

Alain, I expected so much from you! I know you from the Fender Forum (SamJ here), you're the reason I caught the Fender Custom Shop bug and am having a Fender Jazz bass built by Dennis Galuszka!

That D45SS is a certified wet dream! I've only heard one, never touched it.. I'd say besides a Pre-war D45, there is no finer sounding guitar I know of. Wana trade?? ;)
I fully agree ; even my luthier has no idea about the silk ribbons all around the inside of the guitar.
An incredible powerful and crystal clear sound ; very different from the EC 00 41-EC-B.When you play it, it brings a sheer, pure pleasure no other instrument can bring (even if you play as "good" as I)
Well that would be the last acoustic I'd keep.
Great you ordered a DG instrument, it's worth both the money and the waiting time.
Congrats
Alain

[Boogie92801]

I tried the D-41 SP and the Steven Stills and I bought the J-41 SP instead. It was a conon by comparison. More bass more mids and more treble... just more.

[Alainlafrance]

I tried the D-41 SP and the Steven Stills and I bought the J-41 SP instead. It was a conon by comparison. More bass more mids and more treble... just more.
Well a different breed, not in the same ballpark..But might be a good guitar..

[FenderMartin]

Well a different breed, not in the same ballpark..But might be a good guitar..

I agree a J, by virtue of it's size is going to out bass a D, but the tone is different.. The ultimate tone for me is a 1933-1942 D45, arguably the D28 as well.. (I only once had the please of hearing a D45 from 1937 and if I had the spare $200,000 I'd buy one tomorrow!), and anything that comes close is only just that... close.. The D45SS is VERY close, and most of the current forward shifted and scalloped D's are "close" as well.

[Dylan61]

Sometimes I wonder if when you play a guitar the ease of playing does something to you too..let me explain,

I own a lot of Martin guitars, D28, HD28, D18GE, D28 Marquis and a Custom 00016 Slothead.

I have also a Gibson J45 and a cheap Simon&Patrick, these last two have a different neck angle, bigger frets and are 24,9 short scale. If I am realy honnest I play them more than all of my Martin guitars..

Reason, they are much easyer to play. If I want a huge big sound, a orchestra for myselve, I take my Martins but have squire fingers in a our or so.

Sometimes I am thinking to refret my D28 with Gibson fret wires.

The moral of the story, the ease of playing make something loose in your head that say, that is a good guitar beside the sound.

[Realfi]

I have been selling Martin guitars for over 20 years. I have heard some great old Martin guitars....but old does not a great guitar make....it's about the particular guitar...not the age.

With that much said I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Martin guitars they are making now are just fine....maybe the best ever from a QC viewpoint. Martin flat out owned the "Made in USA" guitar market for a very long time...maybe I should say they dominated it.

Now with Collings, Bourgeois, Froggy Bottom, Santa Cruz,Taylor, etc. the bar has been raised quite a bit...and I think, after stumbling a bit initially, Martin has responded in spades. It's hard to argue with a D-18GE from a traditional tonal aspect. However, that may not be what you are looking for...and if not...so be it. There's plenty of other guitars to consider in all the price ranges.

Generalizing is never a good thing...what works just fine for one person may be absolutely poison for the next. And, you know, they're just guitars and there's plenty of them out there.

I'm in total agreement here. I also sold Martins and a whole heap of other high-end used and new guitars for approx 15 years.

For the last 8 years of that time I managed a retail store here in Perth, which at any one time had up to 200 specialist acoustic guitars and was also a division of the company that was the Martin Distributor for Western Australia. I've played many many examples of the whole Martin range and did so daily for 8 years as I did with most of the brands that have been mentioned in this thread.

In my opinion, with the exception of the HPL models which I do feel are a travesty, across the board the various models and styles of Martin Guitars compete well with any other instrument in their price range. More than that they have a characteristic "Martin" tone.

As it happens, a J45 happens to suit me better for what I do, in the same way that a Telecaster suits me more than a Les Paul but you won't hear me calling any of them turds...

[Maculan]

Hey Riff:
I know, it's just I used to always want a MARTIN guitar and it was just a rude awakening

That's exactly how I felt years ago about the J-200's - always wanted one. Went to the local shop played a J-200, J-185 and 150 and was totally underwhelmed - Ended up with a Taylor 615.

But, a few months back I played a Southern Jumbo that I thought had it all.

Go to another store like others suggested and play em all again (with an open mind), its all a matter of personal taste and how they hit you but its hard have a definitive stance from one outing - hell, I think I'll go try some J-200's again!

[SteveGaines]

http://www.thepodium.com/pc-15215-137-martin-d-18-1937-authentic.aspxI have talked to various people and they all tell me that the 1937 Authentic D18 is one of the BEST guitars Martin has made in years. Stan Jay of Mandolin Brothers said that Martin had raised the bar with that guitar, again. It is spec identical to a 1937 D18 is supposed to sound really good.

[Dylan61]

But my Martin Marquis came with WINGS..

a 3200$ guitar with a headstock glued together that you don't even find on $200 guitars..

It is a very good guitar but you can't read a thing about it in the specs and they schould't have done it.

[Realfi]

But my Martin Marquis came with WINGS..

a 3200$ guitar with a headstock glued together that you don't even find on $200 guitars..

It is a very good guitar but you can't read a thing about it in the specs and they schould't have done it.

Do you have a pic to demonstrate what you mean?

[Dylan61]

Martin Co. deside to lower production costs on wood and glued on the headstock left and right a piece of wood.

The started in 2006 with this and not everybody is very happy that they done it without notice.

[Fishin'Musician]

This thread started out with some guy saying Martin sucked and all the guitars he played one day in one store sounded like azz. The reality of the situation, which was addressed twice in this thread then subsequently not commented on, is that if you over humidify an acoustic guitar, the result is a dead, lifeless tone. It doesn't matter one iota if it's got new strings, old strings or coated strings.
If a store carrying acoustic guitars does not strictly control the humidity, which sadly happens all too often, especially in -but not limited to- the larger "superstores", the wood will either be too dry or take in too much moisture, and sound like sh*t. Imagine what an acoustic would sound like after being left out in the rain. While obviously that's an extreme example, the principal is the same, the moisture is going to prevent the tonewoods from vibrating properly. And yes, seemingly small differences in humidity levels, which we would not be able to detect other than with a hygrometer, will make significant differences in a guitars tone.

[Jeff Flowerday]

Wings:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeffflowerday/Images/Juber3.JPG

[rbisherw]

My new HD28 which I picked up today from Wildwood is an outstanding guitar and I am very happy with it.:AOK

[kmcmichael]

I have had several Martins and still have three. They are my favourite. I have heard some of the old ones that sound amazing. My current favourite is a D-18GE. I know that some people make really nice Martin copies but if they sound as good the cost $1500 more. I know that Tony Rice plays a Santa Cruz but the ones that I have heard did not impress me for the price. A D-28 can be pretty hard to record.

I think that we all have just different tastes as I don't think much of Taylor's

[Peppy]

I know that Tony Rice plays a Santa Cruz but the ones that I have heard did not impress me for the price.


Agreed. I tried out several (Tony Rice models) and they just didn't do it for me. Much prefer, in that style, my D/PW. Can fingerpick in a pinch but to me, is just as balanced, loud and crisp as the Tony Rice for flat picking, yet for at least $1000 less. Possbily Santa Cruz' best kept "secret".

[majorledhead]

I just wanted to chime in. Don't have a martin or care one way or another : But, don't acoustics need to be " played in ". How it sounds, new, hanging in the store may be completely different how it sounds years down the road with hundreds of hours on it. I know it would be a leap of faith, and it may still be a dog down the road, thats just the nature of the beast. Personally, I always buy used. Broken in, cheaper, and pre dinged so you can use it without the worry of scratching. Sometimes you pay more for the name and cosmetics than you get out of it in tone.

[Tuberoast]

Go to Elderly Instruments in Lansing, Mi and play the Martins. I have. They are far from sounding like sh#t and most of them sound wonderful and they haven't even left the store to be played in by a new owner. There are a broad range of Martin models, so to pan on "Martins", especially new, unplayed ones is more of a snapshot than a movie.

[stevieboy]

The point of wings is that you can make a neck from a piece of wood that is significantly narrower before it is cut. With wood supplies dwindling it is becoming more difficult for manufacturers to find quality wood in pieces wide enough to cut down and still leave a full width headstock, also there is a lot of waste as it's cut. Much discussion, and controversy, about this topic on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.

[2manygtrs]

I have a couple fairly recent Martins that are great. I have 1995 or 06 OM28VR that is one of the best Martins I have ever played. I have played PLENTY. I have also played about 10 other OM28VRs and none of them holds a candle to mine. I was lucky to find it. A guy came into the store I used to work in (12 years ago). He described what he was looking for and the owner pulled out the unplayed OM he had taken in trade about 6 months earlier. The customer played it for over an hour and loved it. He ended up walking out without the guitar because the owner wouldnt give what he thought was fair value for his Taylor in trade. I walked out with the guy to tell him if he didnt buy the guitar that night that he would never get the chance again. He didnt listen to me and for about 6 years after I bought the guitar he would call ever 6-8 months to see if I wanted to sell. He also drove up and down the coast to play all others he could find (about 20 in all) and never found one that compared. Shes staying with me.
I have a recent OOO-12S. All Mahogany, satin finish, 12 frets to the body, slotted headstock. It kicks ass too. Got a 1963 OO-18 too. Its pretty nice. After the mid 60s I think most American Guitar companies declined. If you pay boutique money for anything you'll usually get better quality than the assembly line stuff.
I have an old (93-94) Breedlove SC25R thats incredible. Of the Martin copy kind of guys, I would say Huss & Dalton are my favorites. Goodalls are very nice too. A John Greven is worth looking at as are Judy Threat (spelling?). I never cared for the Larivee much. Just my opinions. Good Luck and try an H&D.

[Robert Burns]

Were they also hanging on the wall for weeks with every greasy fingered pre-pubescent pimple popper mucking them up?

I know when I bought mine, they had me choose from more than a dozen cased guitars. They had been played little, if at all...


Jamie
** Yeah, that has always bugged me about GC.. i would never pay
say $3800.00 for a great upper end Taylor, when it has swirlies, and dirt
on it from being handled by 400 teenagers! I would need them to order
me one, fresh from the factory. IMO 95% of everything GC has in stock
should be sold for "used" prices. They aint close to new!

Here is a tone monster! MY grandfather bought this one (just like Elvis)
a 1943 D-18 in 1944 for $230.00! A fortune back then... it booms, and
sings like the heavens! My Boss is a big Martin fan and owns 3 D-28's.
He had to play about 20 of them, before finding each single one that
sounded good. Only his 1968 sounded great right from the first time
picking it up. In his opinion, since about 1985 it's hit or miss from Martin


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/RobertBurns/647a1a69.jpg

[pickaguitar]

But my Martin Marquis came with WINGS..

a 3200$ guitar with a headstock glued together that you don't even find on $200 guitars..

It is a very good guitar but you can't read a thing about it in the specs and they schould't have done it.
I guess you haven't looked very hard.
Look at Gibsons...even a 59 les paul has wings brutha

[esiegel]

Someone wrote: "I have an old (93-94) Breedlove SC25R thats incredible. Of the Martin copy kind of guys, I would say Huss & Dalton are my favorites. Goodalls are very nice too. A John Greven is worth looking at as are Judy Threat (spelling?). I never cared for the Larivee much. Just my opinions. Good Luck and try an H&D."

ES replies:
I just traded my 1977 Martin HD28, picked from about 10 at elderly 30 years ago, for a Huss and Dalton DS Custom. I never loved my Martin, for 30 years it was the loudest guitar on the block, but never had the sound I was looking for. The H+D is based upon the old Gibson slope shouldered jumbo's, I don't think any of their guitars are Martin copies. The have an entirely different sound, much more pronounced and articulate mids. But they can out cannon my HD28 and whisper beautifully.

Anyway, I have to admit that since I have been playing the H+D's wherever I can find them, I no longer have interest in any Martin that I have played. And there is no question that the chain stores are not doing right by any of their good instruments, they just don't maintain them.

Eric

[Sain't]

My OM18GE is the only guitar I've picked off the wall and had to buy immediately. And they are fairly consistent. Great guitars. Same for the D18GE.

At the time this video was done the OM was brand new: http://arendsderning.com/downloads/WalkinMyBluesAway.WMV (http://arendsderning.com/downloads/WalkinMyBluesAway.WMV)

Overall, I think Martin quality is quite high at the moment. There are certainly more choices than ever before and that is a great thing.

Michael

[mc5nrg]

But my Martin Marquis came with WINGS..

a 3200$ guitar with a headstock glued together that you don't even find on $200 guitars..

It is a very good guitar but you can't read a thing about it in the specs and they schould't have done it.

Checked out many Gibson headstocks lately, including ones on "vintage" guitars?

[GuitarsFromMars]

I was in Nashville,at Gruhns during Christmas week,I played a 55,000$ Martin that sounded amazing.It was a 000-45 made in 1941.I think you just ran up against some dead strings.

[jbryant3]

Timmo...I agree 100%. It's not only Martins though. A friend of mine bought this beautiful (visually) little Gibson awhile back...based on it's name, visual appearance and cost supposedly indicating a quality guitar. (Over $2500) Anyway...what a piece of doodoo. I used to sell vintage Martins and they have the tone to die for in many cases. New ones...well you might find 1 out of 20 that speak to you and I have but consistantly they don't hold up. Low end Taylors, Larrivees...absolutely stunning! I have never picked one up that didn't sound good. For consistancy they cannot be beat. Then of course everybody and their brother are making some astounding handmade guitars so why would anyone buy a Martin for $3k+?? Same reason some folks will only buy a Cheverolet. The name.

[Dylan61]

I have a amazing 1947 Martin 00-21, I think only my Custom 000-16 Slothead comes close, so you can be lucky.

(jbryant3, what would be the value for a '47 00-21 played condition these days?)

[Robert Burns]

Something that sticks out in my mind is about 18 years ago, i was in a
store, that had about 15 Taylors. The cheapest was about $575 at
the time. The most expensive being about $5300.00! (Showpiece with
a ton of abalone, ala a Laravee') Guess which one sounded amazing?
The $575.00 one! Funny, that it's not always $'s that make a cannon.

[dryland]

At the time this video was done the OM was brand new: http://arendsderning.com/downloads/WalkinMyBluesAway.WMV (http://arendsderning.com/downloads/WalkinMyBluesAway.WMV)

Michael

Nice video, Michael. Thanks for posting that link. I try not to generalize or get too dogmatic about guitars. :NUTS Martin and others make good guitars and I tend to agree that the overall quality is way ahead of where they were in the 70s. Still, you have to see them as individuals.

[Sain't]

Still, you have to see them as individuals.

Absolutely, every single one. Regardless of age, manufacturer - factory or individual builder.

And GUESS WHAT? We all have our preferences. Duh. Blanket condemnations are silly. ;)

[coldfingaz]

I've played many Martins in stores, and I agree that they sometimes lack the zip that they should have off the shelf. I know some of this is from dead strings, humidity issues, high action, etc. Taylors, by comparison, seem to be better set up out of the box. I also think Martins sound fantastic given some time to open up. I'm not sure why there is such a difference between a new Martin, Taylor or Guild, but in my experience Martins seem to really flourish after 3- 5 years.

[bmgblues]

Im kinda with you on the inconsistant quality of Martins. I have a 76 D- 28 that sounds killer but my Taylor 610 kicks its butt. However, I was at the dreaded GC the other day and played a D-28 that was pretty darn good. You have to play a lot of Martins or any guitar for that fact that sounds good to you. Also, I have noticed that Martins have to warm up. Or is it just me?

[skylabfilmpop]

I think when he moved to a larger manufacturing facility back in 1971 CF Martin was quoted as saying "if I could build a a 30 year old guitar I would". But t5hey cant. Among other factors mentioned here all those guitars are brand new, and years of consistent play from being broken in. Traditionally Martins are not known for being easy playing guitars, neither are 50's/60's style Fenders for that matter. But a good one has a good sound. I agree to a point that a mid level Martin is a little expensive due to the name compared to a blueridge or epiphone masterbuilt. And a production D28 doesn't really turn my screw but I have played consistently great HD28V's and 0028V's as well as the clapton model. Although expensive guitars these tend to be pretty consistently fantastic but admittedly below the quality of a collings but still a lot less. I would suggest that before you judge as well., find a store that specializes in high end acoustics (McCabes Music in Santa Monica CA for example) and play some guitars ther. Find a few good pre 1970 examples of D28's to compare as well, you will probably change your mind and agree that there is a "box Store" qua;lity product that most manufacturers send to GC and Sam Ash

[Dave Orban]

Chain store + Martin acoustics = dead strings
Dead strings = no tone, vibe, or volume

I'm not a huge fan of Martin guitars, but I'd bet that a lot of those guitars would be much more inspiring with fresh strings. Other manufacturers ship with Elixirs that retain their tone for a lot longer.

BryanYup.

And Martins, in general, are much darker and more complex-sounding than, say, a Taylor, which have a strong fundamental which tends to appeal more to "ordinary" folks.

[coldfingaz]

For me the often unsung hero in the Martin line is the 15 series. But, I bought mine before the change was made from mahogany to sapele so I can't say that's still the case. The prices have also gone up quite a bit since I got my 000-15 new in 2003 for less than $600. The guitar continues to blow my mind- it sounds substantially better by the year than when I first bought it. A set up to my liking and a K&K Pure Mini Western installation did wonders too. I also think the 16 series is a very good bargain, but like any fairly high volume production guitars you really need to pick through them to find the gems.

[Sain't]

Traditionally Martins are not known for being easy playing guitars.

Um, not true. They have been known for setting the action high coming out of the factory. This has changed somewhat. But if a player doesn't know enough to get their guitar set up properly, not much you can do. A properly set up Martin is as easy to play as any other guitar.

FWIW, Taylor used to have a reputation for setting their action way too low. I remember back in the early 90s playing a whole room of them and they all buzzed mercilessly. Now I don't find them to be that bad.

[geetarboy]

Then of course everybody and their brother are making some astounding handmade guitars so why would anyone buy a Martin for $3k+?? Same reason some folks will only buy a Cheverolet. The name.

Uh, no. When I bought my Martin D28 Marquis I tried every high-end guitar I could get my hand on. In fact, I'll admit that I was leaning toward Santa Cruz and Collings because of the cool factor that comes with buying from a smaller, more exclusive brand, but the Marquis just plain sounded better than any other guitar I tried.

[pickaguitar]

Uh, no. When I bought my Martin D28 Marquis I tried every high-end guitar I could get my hand on. In fact, I'll admit that I was leaning toward Santa Cruz and Collings because of the cool factor that comes with buying from a smaller, more exclusive brand, but the Marquis just plain sounded better than any other guitar I tried.
I had the same experience.