Need help picking my first 'significant' acoustic

[AaeCee]

I've accmulated quite a collection of high end electrics over the years, but have a couple of very modest acoustics. I'm going to step up to a serious acoustic, and could use some advice from more experienced hands. The guitar style I gravitate toward is the 'slope-shouldered' dread (they've got that muscle car look!). Those I've played (Gibson J-45, Collings CJ, Martin D-18GE), sounded big and balanced, and I found them comfortable. I am primarily a flat picker, and prefer narrower spacing at the nut and bridge. I've tried some short scale versions (J-45, Collings SS variant) and like it a lot, but am not tied to that concept. I play no bluegrass, and lean towards blues and rock ballads. Price range, say 2-4 thousand. I'm open to wood choices, and like a defined, yet woody organic tone (ie...don't care for Taylors). I like fat necks, Vs are great, and do not want electronics on board. Hope that's enough to go on. Thanks! AC

[e-z]

Don't forget to check out Santa Cruz guitars:

http://www.santacruzguitar.com/catalog/details/jumboacousticguitar.html

[johan]

For the money the new Tacoma line is hard to beat. Great playing and sounding instruments.

[Ogre]

Santa Cruz
Lowden

[Eugene]

Collings

[jayn]

http://www.hussanddalton.com/models.htm

Scroll down to the DS. Bourgeois makes one like that too, but the neck is thinner, IIRC.

[1-Take-Wonder]

+1 on J-45. If you really want to hear the low end, step up to a J-200. I have a definite Gibson bias in the acoustic realm, but considering you said you don't care for Taylors, we may have similar ears :)

I've loved almost every Larivee I've picked up. Their jumbos KILL. You could do two modest Larivees in your price range...(gotta have one dropped down to do Neil Young songs, right?)

Santa Cruz, Bourgeois, Collings, all killer, but never felt like I needed to drop that kind of change, being primarily a rock (primarily electric) guy.

[mprvise]

I'm in the same boat. I've got about 2500 to spend. Looking at Taylor (610 and 810), and a pre-Fender Tacoma. Some of the others mentioned (Collings) are a bit out of my range. Any further advice?

Also, Taylors and Martins are readily available where I am, and some of the others are not (4 - 6 hour drive to play one).

[DiazDude]

In Michigan, where I live, we're lucky to have one of the finest guitar shops in the world, Elderly Instruments. They have one of the greatest selection of acoustic guitars in the country. They are also the largest retailer of Martins in the country. Before I purchased my Martins I tried every make & model in their showroom. If you look at their website and see the selection the have you'll know thats alot of fine pieces. Hands down the Martins were the best sounding. I have 3. A 000038H,
Eric Clapton Signiture (00028ECB) & D1812 12 string. I did the "Pepsi Challange" method in trying the various brands out and the choice was obvious. The others were great instruments but the sound was the thing.
Another thing to think about...a Martin will hold it's value.
:JAM

[leofenderbender]

Look no further - Goodall all the way...

I love my Rosewood standard.

[Den]

Look no further - Goodall all the way...

I love my Rosewood standard.+1 for me. After about three years of looking for an acoustic that would really inspire me, I just brought home a Goodall Concert Jumbo in Rosewood/Sitka and feel I've found the acoustic guitar to last a lifetime. Others you've mentioned are excellent as well, but until I picked up this Goodall, I just never found anything I really wanted to take home. As always, these choices are a very personal thing.

[AaeCee]

Thanks for all the replys, guys. Lots of stuff to explore. Keep 'em coming! AC

[Gazza]

I've played and owned just about everything. I think going with Goodall, Huss and Dalton, or Collings is the wisest and best choice. The guitar I think you should check out is the one I just bought, the Collings D1A. I am floored by this guitar! Scary and big tone that cuts through anything. Man I love adirondack.

[leofenderbender]

Think grand piano... Goodall

[AaeCee]

I've played and owned just about everything. I think going with Goodall, Huss and Dalton, or Collings is the wisest and best choice. The guitar I think you should check out is the one I just bought, the Collings D1A. I am floored by this guitar! Scary and big tone that cuts through anything. Man I love adirondack. Yeah, I'm a bit taken with the Collings CJ so far...in sunburst no less (yeah, I know you purists cringe about bursts on acoustics). But strangely, there's this one Gibson J-45 that played so well, and had quite the sound. Anything wrong with the Gibbos, aside from inconsistent quality control?

[MichaelK]

If you like that one, why should inconsistency bother you? Who cares about the other ones they made that day?

If you like the J-45, check out the Santa Cruz Vintage Jumbo or Vintage Southerner. You're in for a real treat. I like Collings a lot... but I like Santa Cruz more than any other acoustic being made today.

You won't go wrong with any of them, so just go for the one that speaks to you most.

[r9player]

I'll just go by experience.
If you want low action big bottom - Taylor 800 series Rosewood
If you want more piercing sparkling clear - Goodall KOA or Mahogany
If you want real strong deep bottom - C Fox SJ-X
If you want grand piano - well balanced and mellow - Charis SJ Brazilian Rosewood (I haven't tried an Olson or Wingert but this guitar beats every acoustic I've tried!)
Also the Gibson J-200 Ron Wood is pretty special in the sense that it has Maple sound with great strong Bottom.

In general: Koa, Maple and Mahogany are fairly bright sounding to me. And Rosewood is deep. Brazilian Rosewood most balanced.
Cedar top deep, Spruce top Bright, Mahogany or Koa top really bright.
The smaller the guitar the brighter.
In your price range there is such a ton of guitars to choose from so I'd say hit some good stores try em all! If you find your sound, but not your setup (Nut width or neck) get it custom ordered.
I know you say no electronics, not sure why, I like to have a very non intrusive style I-Beam or B-Band like Pick up in my guitar with a battery pre-amp out from the strap button location (now replaced with a 1/4" jack) Very handy to have around and minimal wood is chopped up.

[Serious Poo]

Look no further - Goodall all the way...

I love my Rosewood standard.

Goodall acoustics are some of the finest sounding instruments I've ever played. One day...

[rhys]

woody and organic sounds like mahogany back and sides to me. its punchy but doesn't have the shimmer, overtones, or sustain that rosewood has. i think most of these makers can accomodate you with your neck size/nut width preferences.

[AnthonyL]

I've been on a similar quest lately and I've played just about everything. The two I keep coming back to are:

Huss and Dalton

Bourgeois

[royd]

I think the H&D, Collings, and Santa Cruz should be on your short list...
Personally, I prefer a more "European" sound - Goodall, Lowden (you can hear my Lowdens in the link in my sig), Kim Griffin... but my guess is that that is not the direction you want to go. The sound is a bit more complex and can get muddy in a mix.
Check out the 13thfret.com... it is pretty much the acoustic version of the gear page. You'll be able to get lots of advice on small builders. There are a bunch of them out there building amazing guitars at a variety of price points.

[AaeCee]

Thanks all. The Collings CJ is my current fave. I'm thinking mahogany/adirondack should do well, but won't rule out rosewood/sitka. Problem is, it's near impossible to find two in those combos at one dealer, soooo...any opinions on wood combos? Also, I've seen a few CJs in a 'short scale' (24.9") config. Any opinions there? I realize it would make bends easier, but to what sacrifice in tone? Again, many thanks. Lots of collective wisdom here. AC

[leofenderbender]

Thanks all. The Collings CJ is my current fave. I'm thinking mahogany/adirondack should do well, but won't rule out rosewood/sitka. Problem is, it's near impossible to find two in those combos at one dealer, soooo...any opinions on wood combos? Also, I've seen a few CJs in a 'short scale' (24.9") config. Any opinions there? I realize it would make bends easier, but to what sacrifice in tone? Again, many thanks. Lots of collective wisdom here. AC

I like the brightness and metallic sound of sitka/rosewood - it is the combination most copied and most desired - may help resale if it comes to that. Great for recording.

Adirondack/mahogany will definitely be warmer - you may be able to moderate the warmth by using brighter strings. It might be too dark for recording - for strumming & performing, it will be stunning.

Without a cutaway, short scale acoustics are more difficult to play in the upper register. If you do fingerstyle, it may (literally) be a stretch.

[riffmeister]

I've owned Goodall (Jumbo, Concert Jumbo) and Collings (two dreads, two OM's), and played Santa Cruz, Huss & Dalton, Froggy Bottom, Bourgeois, Taylor, Gibson, Martin, etc.

The Collings guitars just do it for me, D1A and OM1A. There is nothing subtle about them, sound-wise. :cool:

For a slope dread, I'd look into Santa Cruz.

[bobeau]

I have to emphasize how important it is to play these guitars. I so much wanted to buy a Goodall and Collings (at different points in time) based on comments I've read on the internet and have yet to bond with one. And I've played a bunch, living a few miles from Buffalo Bros. here in San Diego.

I have owned a Santa Cruz and now a Huss and Dalton. Of these makes, most of their models appealed to me in tone/playability.

[stephenyi]

Although I own two Taylors, definitely check out Collings in that price range. Haven't played one yet that did not sound fantastic.

[Den]

Regarding short scale ... I thought for a while that might be the way to go for me. As it turned out, I find myself tuning my Goodall a whole step down to D. Wow! it just sounds amazing to me ... great bass, sparkling highs and as powerful or suble as I want it to be. The string tension is really nice and not much of jump when I move from my electrics. It's also easier to sing many of my favorite songs a key lower (never a problem back in the day).

Now that I'm playing it so much tuned down, I'm really happy I didn't go with the shorter scale ... the longer scale works so well with this tuning. For songs in higher keys, I use a capo quite a bit and the shorter scale would have made things a bit tight higher up the neck.

[royd]

AC,

If you go with Adirondack, remember that it takes a loooonnnngggg time to open up. Be patient with it. Also, it tends to look like lower quality with more variation in the width of the grain etc. Don't let that bother you.

I wouldn't characterize adirondack/mahogany as being warmer than rosewood/sitka. I usually play cedar top guitars but I think the b&s experience translates. while waiting for my rosewood Lowden, I borrowed a mahogany one in the same size, shape, & top wood for 10 months. The mahogany was a simpler sound, more in your face, and brash. The rosewood was more elegant and subtle. Both guitars were amazing. I know that talking about tone is like dancing about architecture so let me give another analogy... (sorry for any implied sexism) The mahogany was like a victoria secret's model. It immediately grabbed you with its beauty and you took it all in. The rosewood was more like a classic beauty - Catherine Deneuve or Grace Kelly... it didn't make me fall over but every time there was more to be found there.

The better builders don't have huge differences from one wood combination to another. They know how to use wood to get their sound and do it again and again. Another example - I never liked maple acoustics. They always sounded thin and lifeless to me. Then I played a Lowden O in quilted maple. It sounded just like a Lowden should... it was big and rich and warm and amazing. Then I played a maple Goodall. It too sounded like a Goodall should. And I loved it. Obviously there is some difference from one wood to another but it is less radical than in the big factory companies like Taylor and Martin.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Collings. A similar model would be the Santa Cruz model VJ. Both companies are pretty consistent in their guitars and the workmanship would be top rate. I don't know what H&D makes in a slope shoulder...

personally, I'd go with the longer scale... that extra tension would give you more sound plus more options of lower tunings. I drop my Lowden to a C sometimes and it just keeps on going.

[Tone Disciple]

LIke all guitars, you really need to play the individual instruments to realize which is best for you. There is a lot of great wisdom here about different manufacturers (noted absence of Martin recommendations which I agree with as there is much better than Martin stuff out there). Here is my $.02.

Lowden - I will always try to keep a Lowden around. Their tone is unique and the clarity and high end is crystal clear. Dreadnoughts are not common however, so you may have to evaluate that. The jumbos - O series are really very nice. Be sure to check them out. Used Lowdens can be real bargains on Ebay. I have seen some $3500 guitars there for $1500. And even though you can't play before you buy, these deals are so good that I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on a Jumbo rosewood model for these prices. I have never played a jumbo Lowden that sounded poor.

Bourgeois - Much as I like Collings, the Bourgeois beat every one in a heads up comparison in stores that carry both. I would want to play the individual guitar here however to make sure it is the best sounding instrument. Wood choices are important here. I actually like the mahogany back models more than some of the others. Here is where you will find some great slope shouldered dreadnoughts.

I agree with all the recommendations to consider Santa Cruz, Collings, Goodall and others. I have owned beautiful Breedlove and Tacoma models and sold them because they could not stand up to my Lowden and Taylors for tone, volume and versatility.

Others I would definitely check out (could be out of your price range, but give them a look) are -

McPherson
Ryan
McCollum
DeJonge
McAlistar

All of these can be seen and played in one great store: High Desert Guitars in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Worth the weekend plane fare to visit! Many pieces from individual custom builders in one place. A day here is one of the best educational experiences a player could have on acoustic guitars.

www.highdesertguitars.com (http://www.highdesertguitars.com)

Do your homework and enjoy the process. One of the most enjoyable aspects of playing guitar these days is getting to see and play the art and craftsmanship that many fine luthiers are putting into acoustics. Have fun!

[mcdyas]

breedlove

[randy morser]

Look. if you're going to spend the money, spend it on a Bourgeois. Play a few of them. They are the best. Seriously. I have played so many high-end acoustics... these guitars are IT. Watch the CMTs. Who knows acoustic tone better than those guys. Fully half of them were playing Bourgeois. Get one with Bra. rosewood and Adirondak (forgive the spelling) spruce. You may die and go to Heaven when you play it, but at least you can take the guitar with you.

[Troubleman]

Thanks all. The Collings CJ is my current fave. I'm thinking mahogany/adirondack should do well, but won't rule out rosewood/sitka. Problem is, it's near impossible to find two in those combos at one dealer, soooo...any opinions on wood combos? Also, I've seen a few CJs in a 'short scale' (24.9") config. Any opinions there? I realize it would make bends easier, but to what sacrifice in tone? Again, many thanks. Lots of collective wisdom here. AC

I have that exact guitar (not the short scale). IT ABSOLUTELY RULES. I prefer mahogany to rosewood, and I'd definitely recommend adirondack. Where do you live in MD? I bought mine from Appalachian Bluegrass Shoppe in Catonsville... Those guys are great. Good luck in your choice.

peace,

jb

[Gary F.]

Hi AAeCee-

I thought my acoustic guitar search stopped with a killer Collings CJ I purchased from Appalachian Bluegrass in Balto around Thanksgiving. A few weeks later I stopped in their store for another reason and, lo and behold, Emery had just gotten in a Collings OM2H. Normally, of course, OOO/OM's have a considerably smaller sound than Dreads or Jumbos, but not here. This guitar's tone is so tonally fundimental and LOUD, I had to swap for the OM (Emery, as usual, was a complete gentleman). The intimacy of the size was very appealing, too; large guitars are cool for stand-up or stages, but an OOO/OM size just has an ergonomic elegance about it that I found to be appealing. Frankly, I don't see how you can go wrong with the CJ,Dread or ANY Collings, for that matter, but give an OM a try if you get the chance. BTW, no one does sunburst better than Collings--they're gorgeous.:AOK

Gary

[George H]

I don't know how many of those mentioned already have the sloped
shoulders you desire but......

I just recently picked up a Larrivee SD 50 that is an absolute cannon.
Extremely articulate, great note separation on open chording &
is well balanced. This guitar sustains like no other mahogany bodied
dread I've ever played. The sloped shoulders make it very comfortable
to play sitting or standing. The slotted headstock is a bonus imo & gives
the guitar a classic look.

If rosewood is your choise, check out the SD60.

www.larrivee.com (http://www.larrivee.com)


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/57GLDTP/SD501.jpg

[Troubleman]

Hi AAeCee-

I thought my acoustic guitar search stopped with a killer Collings CJ I purchased from Appalachian Bluegrass in Balto around Thanksgiving. A few weeks later I stopped in their store for another reason and, lo and behold, Emery had just gotten in a Collings OM2H. Normally, of course, OOO/OM's have a considerably smaller sound than Dreads or Jumbos, but not here. This guitar's tone is so tonally fundimental and LOUD, I had to swap for the OM (Emery, as usual, was a complete gentleman). The intimacy of the size was very appealing, too; large guitars are cool for stand-up or stages, but an OOO/OM size just has an ergonomic elegance about it that I found to be appealing. Frankly, I don't see how you can go wrong with the CJ,Dread or ANY Collings, for that matter, but give an OM a try if you get the chance. BTW, no one does sunburst better than Collings--they're gorgeous.:AOK

Gary


Gary - I sometimes stay outta that place if I know I've a credit card in my wallet. I came really close to pulling the trigger on a Collings OM-1A. Absolutely ridiculously sweet instrument. The only thing stopping me - the reacquisition of a Taylor (yes TAYLOR) 512CEFB that I'd purchased there several years ago. It's unlike any other Taylor I've tried (not that i'm not a fan of taylors mind you - i own a 355 and a 1995 limited GAWS as well). It was a NAMM show guitar built by Taylor's custom shop for their booth. It was the first sunburst instrument (just after collings finish expert moved from texas to california and began working for taylor). It was made from absolutely choice pieces of mahogany and engleman. Its top seems to be braced more lightly than the typical 512, it has a florentine cutaway, and its sound is absolutely magical. I don't think I'll ever part with it. It's almost Collings-like in its sound and feel.

All that said, if I find an OM-1A (love adirondack).... Next time you're at the shop, ask Howard Markman about his Collings OM-1.

peace,

jb

[Gary F.]

JB-

Howard Markman and I go back to our high school days and he came over my house about a year ago with his OM-1. It was the first Collings I had ever played, and was the sole inspiration for my desire to own a Collings.

Peace to you too, buddy, and while I'm thinking about it, A.C, get whatever rows your boat. It's gonna be YOUR guitar and it's got to row YOUR boat, not mine or anyone elses. Good luck and have fun in owning your first really nice acoustic. It's a special and very personal purchase.

Gary

[Troubleman]

JB-

Howard Markman and I go back to our high school days and he came over my house about a year ago with his OM-1. It was the first Collings I had ever played, and was the sole inspiration for my desire to own a Collings.
Gary

Unbelievalbly small world in which we live....
Oh yeah - do you have a copy of Howard's CD? It's actually pretty good. He has an entirely different singing voice than speaking voice.

peace,

jb

[Kooper]

In my neck of the woods there's an accoustic shop.They sell several differant brands of high end accoustic guitars (Martin,Taylor,Breedlove,Lavirre,Bourgeois,Santa Cruz,etc.etc).Its a great shop with all knowagable people that play.Those guys are big fans of Bourgeois.The Bourgeois is alittle out of my price range right now but they were more than happy to set me up wiht something more in my ballpark.Lucky enough the folks there weren't sales whores they ask what sound I was looKing for and tried to direct me but wanted me to try as many as I needed.If'n its ok I'll give them a plug Accoustic Outfitters Stratham NH.

[Gary F.]

JB-

I sent you a PM. For the rest of you, sorry for the thread hijack.

Gary

[Troubleman]

JB-

I sent you a PM. For the rest of you, sorry for the thread hijack.

Gary




DOH! My profound apologies as well....

The oddball offering - they're inconsistent as heck, but do give a look at Larrivee guitars as well. You MUST play the particular one you're considering. I ran across a Brazilian rosewood model made for Guitar Center's anniversary a couple years ago. Wow. Great instrument. A good friend of mine has a OM-sized Larrivee with a cedar top. Incredible fingerstyle instrument. They are out there, and at very good prices to boot

peace,

jb

[THROBAK]

I have played all of the contenders mentioned here except the Santa Cruz and the best playing and sounding guitars were the Collings and the Huss Dalton.

If you want a long bodied slope shoulder the Larivee and Martin 12 fret guitars are both amazing.

[blueguitar]

Since you mentioned the J-45 earlier you might want to check out the AJ by Gibson. Fuller scale at 25.5 and would be a fair comparable to the other slopes mentioned here with a nice nut width and better fingerboard radius.