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View Full Version : Zoom G5 Mods and Pitch Delay


MikeNiteRail
01-01-2013, 10:22 AM
I have a M9 and use it for mods and delay. The mods and filters are ok, but my RP255 has better mod sounds.

How is the octaves, pitch delay and general mods of the 5? I love the octave down on the 255 as well as the basic choruses, phasers, etc. I like the M mods other than they are all monophonic.

My holy grail is being able to do a pitch shifted delay, but can't find audio of the Zoom.

Thanks!

Ps...amp sims aren't that important.

jbxFree
01-01-2013, 12:00 PM
I'm in love with my G5. As far as I can tell, I'm set for tone for the forseeable future.

The only thing that it fails at (IMO) is the pitch shifting. Some of the pitch effects (monopitch and harmonizer) are useful in some situations. In my experience, they sound good only when buried -- buried by distortion or buried in a mix. In that case, they are fine. But for clean tones or fretless bass, with no gain or anything to distract from the latency and glitching, I find the pitch shifting unusable. Perhaps inside the delay loop they will work for you. And I have no idea if they'll work for a harmonica.

The other mod effects are sweet and delightful. Phaser, chorus, analog delay, reverbs -- all of them are really good IMO. Others prefer the Digitech sounds, but the Zoom modulations are absolutely delightful to my ears.

MikeNiteRail
01-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Thanks! Same glitchy issues with the pitch delay? Are the ring mod and such polyphonic?

Thanks!

Adagi
01-01-2013, 05:20 PM
Thanks! Same glitchy issues with the pitch delay? Are the ring mod and such polyphonic?

Thanks!

Pitch delay isn't very good in my opinion, unless you're looking for some experimental kind of sound.

toneseek
01-02-2013, 07:44 AM
I have a M9 and use it for mods and delay. The mods and filters are ok, but my RP255 has better mod sounds.

How is the octaves, pitch delay and general mods of the 5? I love the octave down on the 255 as well as the basic choruses, phasers, etc. I like the M mods other than they are all monophonic.

My holy grail is being able to do a pitch shifted delay, but can't find audio of the Zoom.

Thanks!

Ps...amp sims aren't that important.

yes, there are multiple options on the G5 and they are all pretty great, but you have to know which one is to be used in a particular situation (chords vs single notes vs clean vs distorted etc.) - this is a topic where players often have a hard time using these type of effects on all units - sometimes the effects on the units are not good perhaps but more recently the players may not know the best way to use them IMO and how to set them IMO - no disrespect to anyone, just been my experience lately

for example, Henky has a youtube video of Zoom G5 with the "Alien" (ENGL Invader) amp sim and also does a harmony pitch delay sequence within it so you can see how great it can sound (an example of single notes and in the context of distortion/high gain) - notice where he puts the delay pitch shifting (HPS effect) - on a lot of other gear and with a lot of other players, they would try putting that relatively early in the signal chain and it would not work well or sound very good, but placed in sequence as Henky demos, that is best place for that effect in that scenario - in other words, not first in chain but instead last or towards end of chain

so that is one example,

here is the video I am talking about:
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jbxFree
01-02-2013, 11:53 AM
Henky's vid is great, but doesn't disprove my thesis above: HPS sounds good when the attack is buried in distortion and/or the mix.

You asserted that the multiple pitch effects "are all pretty great"... do you have samples of clean, unburied pitch effects that show this to be true? I already own and love the G5, so I'm not trying to argue with you; I'd rather be wrong :) I'd be thrilled to learn how to get pitch effects that are usable for my applications.

Will Chen
01-02-2013, 11:58 AM
IMHO, the RP line I'd rank modulation as follows:

RP>G>M

I really did not like the modulations the HD500 (same as the M) had when I had the unit.

And pitch as follows:

RP=M>>G

I really do not like the G series pitch effects at all, worst I've owned.


For pitch shifted delay, the best (and most affordable about $100 used) unit on the market is probably the Digitech TimeBender. Really amazing what that unit will do.

http://timebenderdelay.com/

MikeNiteRail
01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
I am really considering using the RP255 as my modeler/mod effects, the M9 for delays and reverb, and then adding a Timebender.

It is sorta overkill, but There are things on the M9 that the 255 and TB can't do. I guess I could just go with a RP355 or 500 and TB...

toneseek
01-02-2013, 12:34 PM
Henky's vid is great, but doesn't disprove my thesis above: HPS sounds good when the attack is buried in distortion and/or the mix.

You asserted that the multiple pitch effects "are all pretty great"... do you have samples of clean, unburied pitch effects that show this to be true? I already own and love the G5, so I'm not trying to argue with you; I'd rather be wrong :) I'd be thrilled to learn how to get pitch effects that are usable for my applications.

yes, your thesis is not disproven - but placement of HPS makes a difference and that example would not have gone so well with HPS in a different position in the chain, just like real world stomp boxes in different orders each feeding a signal to the next

all the modulation effects and pitch shifting effects on the G5, IMO, are pretty great. Compared to pitch shifting on my Digitech MFX units which were not realistic and which had a very big noticeable lag IMO. I have all the latest unofficial firmware updates for those installed but can't say whether any Digitech standalone digital pitch shifting may be better or worse as I have not tried one for more than a few minutes.

what kind of thing are you looking for sound-wise? you mentioned clean tones, are you looking for a simultaneous harmony or a pitch shifted echo? or maybe something else? it could be a case of adding pitch shifting to something else in combination to get the sound you are looking for perhaps?

simpler is probably better if it can get you the sound you are after

this may bring a smile if you are older (and has some phased pitch shifting and obviously other effects at same time)
wuZJXDU9_uY

zoom G3 with some pitch shifting chords (v2 of G3)
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mentions Digitech Timebender compared to G3 and does some examples, don't know because my Timebender experience is so limited, I have mostly only heard of bad reviews for the Timebender from my friends though, so YMMV
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toneseek
01-02-2013, 12:44 PM
this lists the modulation effects, if you scroll down, with descriptions, but note some have more than 3 adjustments despite what the little icons show
Zoom G5 specs (http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/g5/spec/)
and the instructions (I know everybody hates to read the manual!) goes into much more detail for each effect and amp sim, etc.

MikeNiteRail
01-02-2013, 12:52 PM
I have two threads going on this, actually. Here is what I originally posted regarding the specific effect.

Ok, this isn't guitar, BUT please see if you can figure it out anyways, please. John Popper of Blues Traveler uses a pitch-shifted delay that I love. I am trying to find a way to do the same. You can hear it here:

Intro - http://www.bluestraveler.com/albums/truth-be-told/unable-to-get-free/

Starts at 2:25 - http://www.bluestraveler.com/albums/live-on-the-rocks/this-ache/

Starts around 4:02 - http://archive.org/download/bt2000-11-11.flac16/bt2000-11-11d3t05_64kb.mp3

My understanding is that it is most likely being made with an Eventide H8000 (although the last clip would have been a H3000). There are over 1,000 presets on a H8000 and I am overwhelmed trying to figure which one it is specifically. The effect isn't unlike shimmer, I guess?

I've tried running wet delays to a pitch shifter, but that is a lot of gear. I have a Digitech RP255 and Line 6 M9. The M9's Octo is sorta similar, but seems to be more reverb and less like the above clips.

It would appear that the Eventide Pitchfactor can maybe do this with Crystals, but I can't find too many examples of how it sounds. My understanding is, and I haven't tried these either, is that the Digitech Timebender and Zoom G5 have pitch shifted delays on board.

I've looked around town and can't demo any of these locally. I've been on the hunt for something to do this in a small package for over 5 years. I can honestly say that this is the only effect I've tried to rip off of someone, and I haven't come anywhere close. He uses it a lot live, but it was hard to find studio clips.

Fortunately, I've had some interactions with Mr. Popper both in person and online. I haven't had a response related to this effect from him, though. Any thoughts on this effect - especially how to pull it off with one pedal - would be MUCH appreciated!

The reason for this thread was specific to the G5's ability to pull off the above sound - which to my ear is simply a pitch shifted digital delay. It is not like the Octo on the M9 or the Shimmer the Edge uses.

I would like to keep my board as small as possible. Right now, I use a M9 and Tech 21 Para DI for harmonica.

Here is the Para DI with a Fireball at different Mid and Drive settings:
http://mikefugazzi.com/files/Fireball_Demo_Para_DI.mp3

Here is the same pedal set much cleaner with a bullet mic and then the same settings with the Fireball:

http://mikefugazzi.com/files/Sans_Amp_Mic_Test.mp3

I have used the RP255 for amped tones before too...

https://soundcloud.com/mike-fugazzi/real-easy-jam-with-richard

My current rig would require one more pedal. I am not sure the RP255 would be functional as a pedal board live. The M9 excels at that, but it doesn't have a shifted delay. If the G5 would do a good amped sound and the shifted delay, I could be down to one pedal BUT would half to switch a lot of scenes like with the RP255

So, the best deal for me is for the M9 to have the effect, lol. I really like the pedal board feel. Right now, I just bring a PT Nano and plug it into a QSC K10. The second best is being able to dial in a decent amp tone and shifted delay on something like the G3 or G5 and then removing the Para DI from my board. I really just need a solid sounding clean Bassman model with a good eq.

luxth
01-02-2013, 03:54 PM
could anyone tell me if the RP series allow for bpm synced settings? I mean setting the tempo in bpm other than traditional methods (free, tap tempo).

I think Zoom G series have this feature. Not sure about others tho.

Thanks

toneseek
01-02-2013, 03:55 PM
@MikeNiteRail

I got distracted by your awesome soundcloud recordings

anyways could not get to the first 2 links but did get to the 3rd link starting 4:02 (everything she does is magic?) - Ok, I heard the harmonica(?) echoed at a very high pitch softly - I think that is what you mean?

Did you try the "PitchDly" effect (in the delays section, not modulation section), or "SlowATTCK" (in the dynamics section) followed by one of the pitch shifting effects (both with mix set lower to allow original note to come through)?

Or you can just try one of the delays that has tone and set the tone to sky high treble maybe

Or try one of the reverbs, set it to a long echoy type reverb set very very bright, but low in signal mix, maybe that is kind of that sound

the one example I heard was subtle but a high pitch version of the harmonica, almost like someone a couple keys higher playing across the stadium and wafting back into the mix

should be some way to get it with just a G5 or G3 I would think, maybe some others can nail it for you, bassman is represented on G5 (and probably G3 too) and some others might be of interest to you (like Two Rock set with low gain or one of the other Fender sims set to lower gain and treble reduced to give a warmer fat sound - maybe even the Grant Green stock present modded a bit)

anyways hope you can nail it

Dan1948
01-02-2013, 05:56 PM
I'm in love with my G5. As far as I can tell, I'm set for tone for the forseeable future.

The only thing that it fails at (IMO) is the pitch shifting. Some of the pitch effects (monopitch and harmonizer) are useful in some situations. In my experience, they sound good only when buried -- buried by distortion or buried in a mix. In that case, they are fine. But for clean tones or fretless bass, with no gain or anything to distract from the latency and glitching, I find the pitch shifting unusable. Perhaps inside the delay loop they will work for you. And I have no idea if they'll work for a harmonica.

The other mod effects are sweet and delightful. Phaser, chorus, analog delay, reverbs -- all of them are really good IMO. Others prefer the Digitech sounds, but the Zoom modulations are absolutely delightful to my ears.

I agree!

Henky
01-03-2013, 01:29 AM
IMHO there's nothing wrong with the G5 pitch effects.
It's all a matter of how you use them, i mean what's the use of having a riff played a fifth note above the note you are playing when you don't hear the original note?
You could have just played it a fifth higher...
And for whammy like effects, they will allways have the tendensy to sound artificial.

Here's another clip i did with a clean sound and no other instruments whatsoever.
So no "buried by distortion or buried in a mix" kinda of thing going on here.
At 4:03 i used the "pitch delay" to create a layered kind of chime sound, i haven't come across many effect processors that can do that...

RrUlJvygepc

MikeNiteRail
01-03-2013, 08:18 AM
@toneseek

You are far too kind! Thanks for the post!

@Henky

Great vid on all accounts...playing, gear, quality, editing, etc.

I played around with my Digitech RP255 a bit last night. Mostly, I was just trying to find a tone I thought was useable. I did two things. One, was I tried all the presets I downloaded from Richard Hunter. The other was to try the amp sim I liked best with different mics.


My favorite Hunter Patch with four different mics:
http://mikefugazzi.com/files/DKBLCH_FIRE_SM57_RE10_GB.mp3


A very QUICK riff with each of the 60 presets:
http://mikefugazzi.com/files/RP255_Demo_All_Models.mp3

I am sharing this just to illustrate that a lot of the guitar gear out there works fine with harmonica. The main reason I use a M9 with a Tech 21 Para Driver DI is I have full control over the "amp" tones live. It is harder on the DT to globally adjust your live sound - both with the amp sims and effects.

My current rig is very flexible in contrast.

How hard is it LIVE to adjust your "amp" tones on the G5? I'd like to simply dial in one amp tone for the night and then play. I am assuming I can leave an amp sim on 100% of the time and change effects on the fly.

If the G5 amp sims sound anything like the DT or my T21, I'd be totally fine. I just need something that has the ability to be set up for a fairly clean sound without sounding muddy. Basically, the equivalent of a warm vocal tone. I use the mic and technique to control the grit.

bdj
01-05-2013, 02:21 AM
I really do not like the G series pitch effects at all, worst I've owned.


For pitch shifted delay, the best (and most affordable about $100 used) unit on the market is probably the Digitech TimeBender. Really amazing what that unit will do.

http://timebenderdelay.com/

My thoughts exactly.

Henky
01-05-2013, 04:31 AM
@Henky

Great vid on all accounts...playing, gear, quality, editing, etc.
Thanks Mike for the compliments regarding my vid, i appreciate it.

How hard is it LIVE to adjust your "amp" tones on the G5?
If it comes to adjusting anything (live or whenever) IMHO nothing comes even close to the user interface of the G5, it's just shear genius.
The concept, which they introduced with the G3, of operating a multi effects unit as if it were individual stompboxes is just great.
It's so easy to adjust parameters of for example your amp sim within a complex patch that you really can't go wrong and you don't have to be afraid anymore to get lost in a series of menu's.

As for the pitch effects IMHO they are just as good as any, i like them and i can get out of them what i need.
Pitch effects can get very complex so you need to invest some time in them to get the best results but i don't think they are worse than those of a dedicated unit like the timebender.
I don't use pitch effects that much that i wanna carry an extra unit with me.
And besides with only 4 presets the timebender would be totally useless for me.

MikeNiteRail
01-07-2013, 12:08 PM
I had a buddy record him using harmonica with his G3 and the pitch delay. I am not going to share it as it wasn't intended for mass consumption, but it sounded really good. He opted to do things lower in pitch or at different intervals than my initial request, but it painted a pretty clear picture.

I ordered one for $250 from MF via 15% off sale. Sadly, they are on back order until the end of this week...and it will take 3-5 days after that to get it. I can't wait!