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plaintopper
01-25-2013, 10:58 AM
This, from Mark's Guitar Loft.

NEW Gibson 2013 Custom Shop Reissue Les Paul Specs
(Item#474) The 2013 Custom Shop reissue Les Pauls are just being released and here is the list of cool changes to the appointments: Back to 1-piece rosewood fingerboards with real celluloid inlays, the neck set will now be done with Hide Glue, new vintage accurate truss rod with no sleeve, all guitars will now come with Custom Buckers for pickups, correct aniline dye in the cherry pore filler for the back color, new neck and body binding with a more accurate vintage color, new single line Kluson tuners, both the front and back colors have been changed on all goldtops, the gold color is more accurate and slightly green, the back color has a darker pore filler and is more of a walnut brown. I'm hoping to see some of these guitars soon!

Gibson haters pile on if you must, but I am intrigued. Nothing here not to like, IMO.

Shark Sandwich
01-25-2013, 11:44 AM
yes this is very good news.

Question: does this apply only to historic Les Pauls, or will the other historic guitars get these upgrades (335s, LP Specials, etc.)?

Liquid_Mojo
01-25-2013, 12:20 PM
This is good news! Definitely going to try one.

kingsxman
01-25-2013, 12:23 PM
Very cool.

1radicalron
01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993. Every year - its a new and more accurate vintage color, More correct vintage style this and that. Just more marketing bullsh!t so they can justify there ever raising prices.
I currently own 7 Historic Les Pauls from various years, I have sold more than that because they were dead logs. I have found no consistency in terms of which Historic's are better because it was made in this year or that. My Favorite Historic has been the first 57 Goldtop that I got in 93 when it was new. There are others that are close, and some that were almost laughable.The fact remains they are modern Guitars. They are not 50+ year old Guitars Gibson wants you to believe your buying. I expect many of you may want to argue that your favorite Historic happens to be the year in which yours was made. - I say Enjoy, and bring the world some good music.

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 01:28 PM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993. Every year - its a new and more accurate vintage color, More correct vintage style this and that. Just more marketing bullsh!t so they can justify there ever raising prices.
I currently own 7 Historic Les Pauls from various years, I have sold more than that because they were dead logs. I have found no consistency in terms of which Historic's are better because it was made in this year or that. My Favorite Historic has been the first 57 Goldtop that I got in 93 when it was new. There are others that are close, and some that were almost laughable.The fact remains they are modern Guitars. They are not 50+ year old Guitars Gibson wants you to believe your buying. I expect many of you may want to argue that your favorite Historic happens to be the year in which yours was made. - I say Enjoy, and bring the world some good music.


The obvious question is, why do you keep buying them? To continually buy overpriced gear from a company you can't stand makes no sense.

1radicalron
01-25-2013, 01:41 PM
The obvious question is, why do you keep buying them? To continually buy overpriced gear from a company you can't stand makes no sense.


Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Gibson. They have a great legacy, and build some fantastic guitars. I own at least 15 currently. I cant help it - I have serious GAS for great Guitars. Unfortunately they are not all great, and that would apply to just about every manufacturer out there. = Buyer Beware!

Rich
01-25-2013, 01:43 PM
The obvious question is, why do you keep buying them? To continually buy overpriced gear from a company you can't stand makes no sense.


I don't see where he's saying he cant stand Gibson.

To me he's making an observation about its marketing ploys (which I agree with) and his experience over the years.

Seems to me that EVERY maker pulls the same BS with its new model introductions, minor tweaks to existing lines, etc. Each year, bigger & better.....

Come on, lets be smart & honest here -- they play to our needs & WANTS for the next big thing.

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 02:06 PM
I don't see where he's saying he cant stand Gibson.

To me he's making an observation about its marketing ploys (which I agree with) and his experience over the years.

Seems to me that EVERY maker pulls the same BS with its new model introductions, minor tweaks to existing lines, etc. Each year, bigger & better.....

Come on, lets be smart & honest here -- they play to our needs & WANTS for the next big thing.

First, there are some notable spec changes here. Second, of course they are marketing. That's how companies make money.

Stratoben127
01-25-2013, 02:11 PM
I might have to pick up an R8 eventually. Gibson Custom is actually putting out a few models I really like this year.

Aran
01-25-2013, 02:21 PM
Nice. :)

I still like playing my inferior 06 though. :p ;)

Aran
01-25-2013, 02:23 PM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993.

OR, maybe Gibson listens to their customers demands who have been asking for years to do just this?

Nah, it's a conspiracy. :drink

jimpridx
01-25-2013, 02:25 PM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993. Every year - its a new and more accurate vintage color, More correct vintage style this and that. Just more marketing bullsh!t so they can justify there ever raising prices.......


Other than perhaps 2009, the 2013 changes appear to be the most significant of any that I've ever seen. I tend to think it's primarily a means to draw attention away from the 2012 debacle so that Gibson can get back into full recovery mode once again.

Aran
01-25-2013, 02:28 PM
Other than perhaps 2009, the 2013 changes appear to be the most significant of any that I've ever seen. I tend to think it's primarily a means to draw attention away from the 2012 debacle so that Gibson can get back into full recovery mode once again.

Now that I would tend to agree with. It's good Gibson is doing this. Make me wonder if the 12s will be the ones to grab... 50 years from now. ;)

King Loudness
01-25-2013, 02:31 PM
An R9 is still on my dream list of guitars... my buddy is bringing his '06 by tomorrow to A/B with my '73 LPC which should be cool. I'd love to try one of the 2013 models... I saw one that a forum member on MyLesPaul purchased from House of Guitars that looked KILLER. Sure they're all supposedly better than the last one, but isn't that just the way sales ploys work?

W.

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 03:01 PM
OR, maybe Gibson listens to their customers demands who have been asking for years to do just this?

Nah, it's a conspiracy. :drink

It really is a tough win for Gibson with a certain percentage of people, isn't it? People complain about shortcomings in the product (some of which are no doubt valid), and if Gibson addresses those issues as improvements, it's just worthless marketing hype and BS. If they don't address them, then it's the evil empire trying continuing to pass off something inferior.

clint
01-25-2013, 03:02 PM
I'd like to hear some tone reports on whether or not the changes made any noticeable difference compared to previous models. Specs like hot hide glue and no truss rod condum were talked about for years as the reasons Historics didn't quite measure up to their vintage counterparts. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds over the year.

I'm Incinerator
01-25-2013, 03:10 PM
This is interesting for sure, but I don't think you'll be seeing sub $4K list prices on R8's and R7's any longer. If they put out a Darkburst R9 or R8 similar to the Joe Perry signature...I may have to bite...

I still have a jones for a 99-01 R8 or R9, not sure why, but I do...not that I can really jump on one at the moment. I'm still having a lot of fun with my 09 Historic 59 335. My 95 Studio will have to satisfy my LP needs for now.

Sirloin
01-25-2013, 03:11 PM
Price?

jimpridx
01-25-2013, 03:30 PM
Price?

If you scroll down the page, you'll see a few 2013 models at Route 66:

http://www.route66classicguitars.com/electric.html

HurricaneJesus
01-25-2013, 03:33 PM
Can't please everyone, I guess.
You mean every guitar isn't spectacular? I think that describes every guitar line since the dawn of guitars.

HurricaneJesus
01-25-2013, 03:34 PM
If you scroll down the page, you'll see a few 2013 models at Route 66:

http://www.route66classicguitars.com/electric.html

Looks like the prices are about the same, no?:dunno

Stratoben127
01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
For R9s with these specs I expected the high 5k-mid 6k range. A used '13 R8 might not be a whole lot in a year or two.

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 03:46 PM
I'd like to hear some tone reports on whether or not the changes made any noticeable difference compared to previous models. Specs like hot hide glue and no truss rod condum were talked about for years as the reasons Historics didn't quite measure up to their vintage counterparts. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds over the year.

I'm guessing that the closer they get to the originals, the closer we'll get to accepting the notion that most of the difference is 50-60 years of seasoning. I applaud them for doing everything they can so we can enjoy them in the here and now, though.

And I agree with the poster who said Gibson is probably making some serious strides with these revamped specs in part because of what happened in 2012. Sometimes, in business, you need a kick in the rear.

bubbagomez
01-25-2013, 03:58 PM
This, from Mark's Guitar Loft.

NEW Gibson 2013 Custom Shop Reissue Les Paul Specs
(Item#474) The 2013 Custom Shop reissue Les Pauls are just being released and here is the list of cool changes to the appointments: Back to 1-piece rosewood fingerboards with real celluloid inlays, the neck set will now be done with Hide Glue, new vintage accurate truss rod with no sleeve, all guitars will now come with Custom Buckers for pickups, correct aniline dye in the cherry pore filler for the back color, new neck and body binding with a more accurate vintage color, new single line Kluson tuners, both the front and back colors have been changed on all goldtops, the gold color is more accurate and slightly green, the back color has a darker pore filler and is more of a walnut brown. I'm hoping to see some of these guitars soon!

Gibson haters pile on if you must, but I am intrigued. Nothing here not to like, IMO.

This sounds awesome to me. I've heard hide glue is one of those crucial elements to the real deal old wood sound?

Rich
01-25-2013, 04:05 PM
First, there are some notable spec changes here. Second, of course they are marketing. That's how companies make money.

Put the emphasis on your second & third sentences and we're good.

Frankly, there is no reason in hell that Gibson could not have spec'd the Reissues more closely to the originals in the past. Right from the get go. What, they didn't know what was correct?? They always have had prime examples of them to work from. Albeit, they were not all that consistent to begin with back then. But there has been enough in the way of "consensus" to work with.

But every year they announced "new and improved", "closer to the originals".

Sorry, but it could have been done earlier. Maybe the historical accuracy would have cost more to produce but...

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
Put the emphasis on your second & third sentences and we're good.

Frankly, there is no reason in hell that Gibson could not have spec'd the Reissues more closely to the originals in the past. Right from the get go. What, they didn't know what was correct?? They always have had prime examples of them to work from. Albeit, they were not all that consistent to begin with back then. But there has been enough in the way of "consensus" to work with.

But every year they announced "new and improved", "closer to the originals".

Sorry, but it could have been done earlier. Maybe the historical accuracy would have cost more to produce but...

If you don't think hide glue and truss rod are notable spec changes, I'm not sure anything they could do would past muster with you as a worthy change. Unless they would have done it 20 years ago, of course.

TeleFromHelly
01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
This sounds awesome to me. I've heard hide glue is one of those crucial elements to the real deal old wood sound?

I would say it's 90% forum geek nonsense. The truss sheath and hide glue are what old people that talk about guitars more than play them often complain about, but cool to see Gibson listen to the fans nonetheless:aok

Rich
01-25-2013, 06:37 PM
If you don't think hide glue and truss rod are notable spec changes, I'm not sure anything they could do would past muster with you as a worthy change. Unless they would have done it 20 years ago, of course.

You seem to be missing my point entirely. Nothing to do with making changes / improvements per se.


They did not know that hide glue & plain truss rods were used years ago?
Those were brand new 2013 findings on Gibson's part? Really? Jeez.

Knowing what they've always known about original specs, they coulda/shoulda built the Historics more accurately in the past. That is all I've been saying.

And please leave the "pass muster with me" BS home. This was not a personal attack - leave it that way.

plaintopper
01-25-2013, 06:50 PM
You seem to be missing my point entirely. Nothing to do with making changes / improvements per se.


They did not know that hide glue & plain truss rods were used years ago?
Those were brand new 2013 findings on Gibson's part? Really? Jeez.

Knowing what they've always known about original specs, they coulda/shoulda built the Historics more accurately in the past. That is all I've been saying.

And please leave the "pass muster with me" BS home. This was not a personal attack - leave it that way.

I understand your point completely. You're pissed that Gibson didn't make historically perfect reissues the minute they started making reissues, and there's no statute of limitations on your indignation. I get it.

bluesjuke
01-25-2013, 07:22 PM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993. Every year - its a new and more accurate vintage color, More correct vintage style this and that. Just more marketing bullsh!t so they can justify there ever raising prices.
I currently own 7 Historic Les Pauls from various years, I have sold more than that because they were dead logs. I have found no consistency in terms of which Historic's are better because it was made in this year or that. My Favorite Historic has been the first 57 Goldtop that I got in 93 when it was new. There are others that are close, and some that were almost laughable.The fact remains they are modern Guitars. They are not 50+ year old Guitars Gibson wants you to believe your buying. I expect many of you may want to argue that your favorite Historic happens to be the year in which yours was made. - I say Enjoy, and bring the world some good music.




Any guitar can be good, bad, ot just meh.............
We are aware of all the little by little things Gibson has changed each year on the Historic LPs since their inception.

These are some big changes though.

Rich
01-25-2013, 07:48 PM
I understand your point completely. You're pissed that Gibson didn't make historically perfect reissues the minute they started making reissues, and there's no statute of limitations on your indignation. I get it.

Please do me a favor and leave your sarcastic BS comments out of it.

I don't know you, don't want to get to know you and don't want to have any more discussion with you. About this or anything else for that matter.


Sorry, but you brought this to a wrong turn. Your problem, not mine

Got it?

patentcad
01-25-2013, 08:10 PM
This whole Gibson Historic thing is the guitar weenie soap opera that keeps on giving.

Rich
01-25-2013, 08:18 PM
This whole Gibson Historic thing is the guitar weenie soap opera that keeps on giving.

Amen

patentcad
01-25-2013, 08:23 PM
My 2012 R8 is the bomb. I'm done.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/R8Shot1.jpg

Patrick2
01-25-2013, 08:59 PM
WOW!! This is really getting funny.

patentcad
01-25-2013, 09:08 PM
The hand wringing over these guitars is such a facepalm.

Rich
01-25-2013, 11:28 PM
That's a beauty, patencad.

But sorry, it looks to me that the pickguard bracket is set at the wrong angle. Off by about 7.5 - 8.25 degrees.

TeleFromHelly
01-26-2013, 03:49 AM
Amen

and you're the lead role

patentcad
01-26-2013, 04:23 AM
That's a beauty, patencad.

But sorry, it looks to me that the pickguard bracket is set at the wrong angle. Off by about 7.5 - 8.25 degrees.

Thank you.

I know. I always just take them off anyway.

gtrplyr1
01-26-2013, 04:37 AM
I think Gibson realized how many people were willing to spend money and send their guitars out to have the neck reset and the condom removed. It's good for the average buyer but sucks for the shops that specialized in doing this.

VJF
01-26-2013, 07:23 AM
Playing devil's advocate here with regards to Gibson not going 100% original from the get go...is it possible that Gibson knew they left these details out but thought they were insignificant or thought that nobody would care about the type of glue or truss rod used????

Now flash forward...Forums get started and these differences are brought to light as topics of discussion forcing Gibson to make guitars more accurate.

Anyway just another possible explanation...

tubetone74
01-26-2013, 07:25 AM
any news on the new SG Custom Shop VOS?

patentcad
01-26-2013, 07:31 AM
They're very nice guitars any way you slice it, so find one you like and enjoy.

Kmaz
01-26-2013, 07:32 AM
These new ones are going to sound exactly like a fine example from '59!:hide2

Heinz W
01-26-2013, 07:49 AM
These new ones are going to sound exactly like a fine example from '59!:hide2

Quite possible. Tom Wittrock of the LPF has two CC "Sandies" that are modeled after his '59 burst "Sandy". According to Joe Bonamassa it (the original) is one of the best sounding bursts he has played, and he's played a lot. Well, Tom says the new copies sound as good as the original. He has thread over there about it in the Historic section. I was quite surprised by that.

Patrick2
01-26-2013, 08:53 AM
I find it kinda amusing that people love to beat up on Gibson for gradually introducing further refinement to the reissues . . . and, yes . . make no mistake about it. . . the "gradual" is almost 100% intentional so they can sell more guitars. But, the reason I find it to be amusing . . . is that some of these same people seem to think it's perfectly OK for an after market person/tech . . . to take a $5,000 Custom Shop R9 . . . completey re-do it for another $4,000 or so and say . . . . "OK . . now it's a real '59 reissue".

Does anyone here, or on LPF . . or anywhere else on the planet really believe that can actually tell the difference in sound/tone between an R9 with a truss rod condom and an R9 with out one?? Or, does anyone really believe they can tell the difference between an R9 that has been refin'd with "the period correct" nitro and what some are refering to as "the junk" they are using now-a-days?? Also, does anyone really believe that Gibson is continually refining the R9 for the serious players??

There's a whole world of collectors . . . true Les Paul fanatics out there who are willing to pay seriously stupid money to have as exact a replica as possible of what has become a cult like iconic guitar. (I have 4 of them)

As long as that customer base continues to exist . . . the after market techs will continue to re-do perfectly good guitars and charge thousands of dollars to do so . . . and Gibson will continue to make what ever refinements they can make, enabling them to continue to attract the Les Paul aficionados.

If you're a Les Paul lover and need that guitar to gig with . . . there are plenty of standard, run of the mill, mass produced Lesters out there that are wonderful guitars!! Even though they are shaped on a CNC machine, don't have the correct dish to the top, don't have a BRW fingerboard, incorrect binding, wrong color dye, a condom on the truss rod to prevent it from getting glued up and not working properly . . . etc., etc., etc..

However, if you're a collector . . . and you have the money to play with . . the continuous chase after the perfect reissue/replica can be a whole lotta fun. Either way . . . just go with it man. :beer

VJF
01-26-2013, 09:05 AM
^^^^^ well said

I joined the LPF after getting my first and only LP a 2011 R8. I quit the Forum after one month because I could not take the level of fanaticism over the Historics...it was depressing and frightening.

Kmaz
01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
Patrick, do Heritage guitars use a truss rod condom?

quadrophenia
01-26-2013, 11:08 AM
Agree, well said Patrick.

I for one am new to Les Pauls in general and have waded into the waters at MLP while trying to hunt down my first Historic. I get the excitement over improvements and changes to the line (particularly the reversion to one-piece rosewood boards), but the feverish enthusiasm over some pretty minute details has been surprising for me.

Also, FWIW, I priced out some plain top 2013 R8's for comparison's sake, among both authorized (Rainbow, Dave's, etc.) and non-authorized dealers (Route 66, Mark's, etc.). Consensus among the authorized dealers seems to be about $3600 - $3800 (vs. $3,000 - $3,100 for a 2012). You'll save a couple hundred dollars going with a non-authorized dealer but then of course you don't get the manufacturer's warranty. So, it's a significant increase in price for these new upgrades.

Patrick2
01-26-2013, 12:47 PM
Patrick, do Heritage guitars use a truss rod condom?

I had to think about this for a while before I decided to answer your question. My conclusion is that I don't think it would be inappropriate for me to answer a build related question . . . so I will. Also, anyone (tech) who's had to do an extensive neck repair on an H150 would know this anyway. So, it's info that is already out in the public domain.

The answer is yes. However, they use straws. Yep! Straws!!

I asked Ren Wall this question and that's the response he gave me. Now, Rendal likes to joke just as much as the next guy does . . . and I think he takes particular joy in breaking my balls because I'm such a royal PIA with him . . . (in a good way). But, when I chuckled at his answer, he assured me he was serious . . . and I didn't see that little twinkle in his eye that's always present when he joking.

TeleFromHelly
01-26-2013, 02:53 PM
Playing devil's advocate here with regards to Gibson not going 100% original from the get go...is it possible that Gibson knew they left these details out but thought they were insignificant or thought that nobody would care about the type of glue or truss rod used????

Now flash forward...Forums get started and these differences are brought to light as topics of discussion forcing Gibson to make guitars more accurate.

Anyway just another possible explanation...

Bingo. It's 100% because of forums

HurricaneJesus
01-26-2013, 04:11 PM
My 2012 R8 is the bomb. I'm done.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/R8Shot1.jpg

Wow, it's a looker, that's for sure. I'd love to have a top and finish just like that.

27sauce
01-26-2013, 04:37 PM
So what y'all are saying is that Gibson has known about every little detail this whole time and was just holding out?

They have been making regular production reissues since 1983, and they were pretty far off. I think they have gone with the easiest things to produce. In '83, what was the big calling card of a Burst. 2 piece flamed maple top. Thats the easiest thing to do, so it was done. Thin binding in the cutaway. There is no way that they were holding out on the truss rod condom, hot hide glue. It took ten years to get a long tenon, and even longer to get the headstock shape correct. I don't think it was to "save" it for later, I juts don't think they though anyone would care if the headstock was the same shape as the standard production LP.

And no, they don't change EVERY year, it seems to be every three or four years that big things happen. I think its a good thing. I'm not going to buy one anytime soon, but I dont see a problem.

mfolet
01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
2013 R9 Gloss in Icedtea burst.The tops on these are killer so far.

http://images108.fotki.com/v1629/photos/0/35690/9659737/r9corrected-vi.jpg

Heinz W
01-26-2013, 05:59 PM
That's beautiful mfolet! Great color. Have you had a chance to compare it to any earlier models and if so did you notice a difference in sound or feel?

Lo Blues
01-26-2013, 06:22 PM
but cool to see Gibson listen to the fans nonetheless:aok

Seems like they get ideas from this forum and others. Fender too.

bluesjuke
01-26-2013, 06:28 PM
When Heritage drops their truss rod covering it will be the last "straw".

Rich
01-26-2013, 07:52 PM
Good Golly Miss Molly

A discusion about bareback truss rods.

What the hell is this Forum coming to?

Patrick2
01-26-2013, 07:57 PM
When Heritage drops their truss rod covering it will be the last "straw".

:facepalm

patentcad
01-26-2013, 08:11 PM
Wow, it's a looker, that's for sure. I'd love to have a top and finish just like that.

It's a player too. The original owner put these Eastern European Viz PAF pickups and changed the pots and this and that (its all over my head) so the guitar sounds great, and it weighs 7lbs 14 oz (NOT chambered). The light has to hit it just right for the flame to come out like that, it's quite understated. Beautiful guitar, I love it. I had a killer looking R0 that actually sounded a tad ballsier, but it weighed over 9lbs. I really don't like slinging guitars that weigh much over 8lbs for the most part.

bugman
01-26-2013, 08:33 PM
I love all the changes Gibson has made and will buy a 2013 R9. I think yes they have to make a come back from 2012 and two piece boards crap and I think they want to take a bite out of the after market guys. With the 2013 les pauls some guys will not be sending them for make overs. because now the neck has less shoulders and its made with hide glue and yes a naked truss rod and improved in-lays and tuners and now the pick-ups and changed as well, know you dont have to go out and buy in-lays and change the pick ups. some will still do it and a lot will not, But guys love to tinker, boys will be boys

Dr Doom
01-26-2013, 10:51 PM
I'd like to know what the consensus is on how the truss rod cover might affect tone. I can see an argument made that it may cause some deadening. Thoughts?

Why is hot hide glue an improvement though?

patentcad
01-26-2013, 11:30 PM
Does anyone have a link to websites with actual 2013 LP Historic bursts for sale?

jimpridx
01-27-2013, 12:19 AM
Does anyone have a link to websites with actual 2013 LP Historic bursts for sale?

Route 66......just scroll down on the page. A few have already been sold:

http://www.route66classicguitars.com/electric.html

Apparently many dealers already have them in stock but are unable to post them online until sometime in February.

OrangeAD30TC
01-27-2013, 12:31 AM
Like I've always said, it's not a real les Paul unless it uses hide glue.

mrbill
01-27-2013, 01:25 AM
Excellent post, Orange, you said it all.

HurricaneJesus
01-27-2013, 01:51 AM
It's a player too. The original owner put these Eastern European Viz PAF pickups and changed the pots and this and that (its all over my head) so the guitar sounds great, and it weighs 7lbs 14 oz (NOT chambered). The light has to hit it just right for the flame to come out like that, it's quite understated. Beautiful guitar, I love it. I had a killer looking R0 that actually sounded a tad ballsier, but it weighed over 9lbs. I really don't like slinging guitars that weigh much over 8lbs for the most part.

I'm the same way. I actually picked up an R8 plain top last weekend that's probably in the mid to low 8lb range. I'll never sell my 95 Standard but at 10.7 pounds I won't be using it for four sets, I can promise you that.

mfolet
01-27-2013, 08:22 AM
From what I have seen so far the 2013 R9s now have the sound and feel of the Collectors Choice and some of the Signature series like the Kossoff.They are more original burst like.
Here is a pic of my other 2013 in a lemonburst.
http://images15.fotki.com/v792/photos/0/35690/9659737/P1252607-vi.jpg

Harryq
01-27-2013, 09:24 AM
Looking at the pictures of the 2013s on Route 66's site, it still looks like there's too much top showing between the pickguard and the cutaway, and the neck volume knob seems closer to the tailpiece than on most original '59s. I know this doesn't affect the playability and they're beautiful guitars, but how hard is it to measure these things and just get it right?

Bluesdaddy
01-27-2013, 09:56 AM
That is one stunning Historic mfolet.
Of course the upgrades they do each year is a marketing scheme. It makes us want the newest, improved things. I'm pretty happy with my 2010 R7 and 2000 R4 but would love a 2013.
Does using hyde glue for the neck joint and no truss rod condom make much of a difference in sound?

murkat
01-27-2013, 10:04 AM
Gibson does this every single year since the first Historic's came out in 1993. Every year
[/B][/I]

As a former GCS employee, so very true.
My running joke in the shop, "new lemon fresh scent!"

I'm Incinerator
01-28-2013, 10:16 AM
My 2012 R8 is the bomb. I'm done.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/R8Shot1.jpg


Man, I thought that the R0 you had was magnificent, this R8 is even better. Nice score on a newer flametop non-chambered R8...which is more or less my ideal Les Paul.

The neck on that thing must be nice and fat! I was blissfully ignorant to the virtues of a fat neck until I got my Historic 59 ES-335, now my other guitars feel like they have Ibanez Wizard necks...

jelyfinger
01-30-2013, 07:11 AM
The changes are great but do they justify an increase of $800 for the 54-57 Goldtops and the 58 LPs? :huh

They now street price (MAP) at $4499 from $3699 last year.

HurricaneJesus
01-30-2013, 07:18 AM
The changes are great but do they justify an increase of $800 for the 54-57 Goldtops and the 58 LPs? :huh

They now street price (MAP) at $4499 from $3699 last year.

Wow, that's a healthy increase there. Wasn't the MAP around 3200 in 2011?

jelyfinger
01-30-2013, 07:23 AM
No, it was still $3699


Wow, that's a healthy increase there. Wasn't the MAP around 3200 in 2011?

TubeStack
01-30-2013, 07:24 AM
My 2012 R8 is the bomb. I'm done.



You should get that guitar out of the mud.

whitehall
01-30-2013, 07:47 AM
The 2014's are going to be more accurate than the 2013's. Henry is a smart guy. He knows he has an audience of sheep for these . The reissues have been changed every couple of years for the last decade or so. And will continue to do so. Wait till they start using the 50's wood they bought from a warehouse overseas.

clint
01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
Whitehall is dead on! I think they made these changes to make up for the dismal 2012 Historic sales which I assume were less than stellar.
This year's changes seem pretty significant from a historical accuracy/collector perspective but not sure if they'll translate into a noticeable better guitar.
Seems like the jury is still out and a good Historic is already pretty damned close to a vintage burst IMO.

27sauce
01-30-2013, 10:22 AM
Whitehall is dead on! I think they made these changes to make up for the dismal 2012 Historic sales which I assume were less than stellar.
This year's changes seem pretty significant from a historical accuracy/collector perspective but not sure if they'll translate into a noticeable better guitar.
Seems like the jury is still out and a good Historic is already pretty damned close to a vintage burst IMO.

Did the 2012 changes translate to a noticeably worse guitar?

jelyfinger
01-30-2013, 10:23 AM
From reports I've heard the new pickups are stellar and Gibson sure has sourced some great flame maple based on the few 2013 59' tops I've seen so far. Alot better than recent years and almost as good as the 94-96 tops on the Historic 59's.

clint
01-30-2013, 10:40 AM
Did the 2012 changes translate to a noticeably worse guitar?
Are you a collector-type or a player-type?
The Historics were always about being built as close to vintage-era Lesters. Each year or two brought changes that got them closer. The 2012's took a step backwards with the two-piece boards and were not overly embraced by the collector crowd (who often are the ones buying them).

quadrophenia
01-30-2013, 10:42 AM
I have been in the market for my first LP for several months and pulled the trigger on a 2013 R8 just this week. I considered several new 2012's and a number of great looking used historics.

I am pretty confident that I wouldn't be able to tell any difference from a tone or playability standpoint between a 2012 and a 2013. It is nice to know that my 2013 will be more historically accurate, but I ultimately decided on the 2013 because I had some concerns with resale value and warranty. I'm not wealthy enough to drop that kind of cash on a guitar without factoring in those considerations.

I'm Incinerator
01-30-2013, 10:43 AM
I remember when MAPs on the R7's were around 2500.00. Now you have to look pretty hard to find a used R7 for 2500.00. While my heart is all about a Burst Historic. I'm still not going to overlook Goldies...especially if I can find a R7 and R4 for the same price as one (R9) burst!

27sauce
01-30-2013, 10:45 AM
Are you a collector-type or a player-type?
The Historics were always about being built as close to vintage-era Lesters. Each year or two brought changes that got them closer. The 2012's took a step backwards with the two-piece boards and were not overly embraced by the collector crowd (who often are the ones buying them).

Player type. What were the 2012 sales figures?
They've taken some steps backwards a couple of times.

clint
01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
Player type. What were the 2012 sales figures?
They've taken some steps backwards a couple of times.

If you are a player type then rock on with a 2012! Especially if they are now being heavily discounted.
Are you saying I need sales figures to back up the claim that the 2012 sales were dismal? Gut check tells me on this that I don't think so.

27sauce
01-30-2013, 11:04 AM
If you are a player type then rock on with a 2012! Especially if they are now being heavily discounted.
Are you saying I need sales figures to back up the claim that the 2012 sales were dismal? Gut check tells me on this that I don't think so.

This is just the first I've heard of this. I know about the specs and how unpopular they were, but did they really translate to low sales?

zosozep7
01-30-2013, 11:23 AM
Absolutely love my2005 58 Historic!!

Phil M
01-30-2013, 11:32 AM
I played a bunch of 2012s last year and couldn't tell any difference between those and the numerous Historics I've played in the past. One of the 2012 R8s was exceptionally nice looking and sweet sounding - supposedly a plaintop but it had some nice flame too.

I love the Historic LPs and still own 3 but I only look for exceptional deals on them. The new prices are out of the question for me going forward.

Peteyvee
01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
Are you a collector-type or a player-type?
The Historics were always about being built as close to vintage-era Lesters. Each year or two brought changes that got them closer. The 2012's took a step backwards with the two-piece boards and were not overly embraced by the collector crowd (who often are the ones buying them).

Then how come none of them have ever come close with the exception of the really expensive ($6K+) brand new ones when they finally removed the truss rod condom and and started using hide glue again?

whitehall
01-30-2013, 11:54 AM
There was a time when only the R9's had really nice tops, those days have been gone for awhile. The guitar on the left is my 2010 R7 . on the right a new Lp Traditional. The two are more alike than different.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/cndoman/DSC_1224_zps4a371eee.jpg

quadrophenia
01-30-2013, 12:07 PM
There was a time when only the R9's had really nice tops, those days have been gone for awhile.

Agree, but some of the Traditional tops at Sweetwater look less than great. Others (like yours) look awesome.

27sauce
01-30-2013, 12:14 PM
There was a time when only the R9's had really nice tops, those days have been gone for awhile. The guitar on the left is my 2010 R7 . on the right a new Lp Traditional. The two are more alike than different.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/cndoman/DSC_1224_zps4a371eee.jpg

The 97/98 and 02 R8's had pretty crazy tops.

hag99
01-30-2013, 04:11 PM
Are they any dealers blowing out the older Historics?

thornie
01-30-2013, 04:20 PM
Are they any dealers blowing out the older Historics?

No. Why would they? Just because they lack the newer features doesn't mean dealers wont still get top dollar for them.

TubeStack
01-31-2013, 12:21 PM
Are they any dealers blowing out the older Historics?

Same thought crossed my mind... :rotflmao

Dale
01-31-2013, 12:34 PM
Other than perhaps 2009, the 2013 changes appear to be the most significant of any that I've ever seen. I tend to think it's primarily a means to draw attention away from the 2012 debacle so that Gibson can get back into full recovery mode once again.


This is my guess as well.

Adamclayton
01-31-2013, 12:57 PM
I'd like to hear some tone reports on whether or not the changes made any noticeable difference compared to previous models. Specs like hot hide glue and no truss rod condum were talked about for years as the reasons Historics didn't quite measure up to their vintage counterparts. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds over the year.


Just got a new 2013 59 Reissue Bourbon Burst from Eddies Guitars. I'm not far from Nashville and have played many R8's and R9's. This is what I feel, or atleast the one I decided on has over the 12's. Very bold, more acoustically loud, prominent, WARM but articulate sound and rings like a bell. The Custom Buckers adapt well to just about any style of music. I think Gibson's at their best as far as fit and finish too and even their soldering work was flawless on this one. Very nice woods. Eddie gave me the best deal too out of any dealer. I'm feel extremely blessed to have finally gotten a 59RI that suites my playing style and tone, and is in my favorite finish. Oh and the sustain is insane.

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Adamboogie/0F6B1B84-A7E1-44F5-874B-7257BEE4E235-4537-000004025169C6F6.jpg
http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Adamboogie/A4C2BB5E-0FFA-431C-A302-C87EC8205A9B-4537-000004023B492941.jpg
http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Adamboogie/9434A3DB-0A2B-41E6-B117-9CA62E24D1B6-4537-00000402623ADFB4.jpg
http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Adamboogie/0039D516-AA62-4575-8021-1700718BD8F9-4537-000004026D30368C.jpg

Omega
01-31-2013, 01:11 PM
That's my dream guitar in my dream color. Congratulations and play it in good health. That thing is absolutely stunning to me.

quadrophenia
01-31-2013, 01:19 PM
http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Adamboogie/0F6B1B84-A7E1-44F5-874B-7257BEE4E235-4537-000004025169C6F6.jpg

These 2013's have some seriously dark looking boards on them. And although I personally prefer plain tops, there are some great looking flames on the 2013's as well. Great looking guitar -- enjoy!

Adamclayton
01-31-2013, 08:45 PM
That's my dream guitar in my dream color. Congratulations and play it in good health. That thing is absolutely stunning to me.

Thank you. Yes sir the model and finish is my dream guitar too. It's really almost like a dream man I tell ya cause it's the most musical sounding guitar I've ever played (sure I'm not helpin your GAS). Like I said, I dont live real far from the Gibson Custom Shop in Nashville, and have played many many Reissues. I'm not sure if it's the changes they made to the 2013 models but they do sound better to me than any 2012's I've played. Not saying that there's not a better 2012 out there at all. Sustain is unreal. Very bold. And the Custom Buckers have a warm, punchy, singing tone that has plenty of lows and mids that aren't muddy at all. Although I would like to maybe try some Sheptones or Mules.

TeleFromHelly
01-31-2013, 09:38 PM
There was a time when only the R9's had really nice tops, those days have been gone for awhile. The guitar on the left is my 2010 R7 . on the right a new Lp Traditional. The two are more alike than different.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/cndoman/DSC_1224_zps4a371eee.jpg

That traditional is unreal. I'll be picking up one of those next xmas when they have some sales (I know they won't be as cheap as last year, but there's always sales:Devil)

patentcad
01-31-2013, 10:06 PM
Man, I thought that the R0 you had was magnificent, this R8 is even better. Nice score on a newer flametop non-chambered R8...which is more or less my ideal Les Paul.

The neck on that thing must be nice and fat! I was blissfully ignorant to the virtues of a fat neck until I got my Historic 59 ES-335, now my other guitars feel like they have Ibanez Wizard necks...

Neck is a 59 thickness, not 58. Perfect LP for me. The R0 had a nicer top and was a touch ballsier in tone, but it was a brick. This guitar is like 20 oz. lighter. It's great.

Patrick2
01-31-2013, 10:23 PM
It's a 2002 R9 . . . RS Guitar works pot and cap upgrade including '50s wiring . . . stock pups. Not sure how I could be more pleased with this guitar's tone and sound if it had hyde glue and no truss rod condom.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd483/Patrickassoc/DSC00201.jpg

tubetone74
02-03-2013, 09:29 AM
AdamBomb, that gtr is stunning. Do you know if those pickups are potted or not?

mfolet
02-04-2013, 09:04 AM
House of Guitars just got 15 2013s in and they have 4 leftys also on the way.Looks like Gibson will be taking care of everybody this year.

Adamclayton
02-04-2013, 11:10 AM
AdamBomb, that gtr is stunning. Do you know if those pickups are potted or not?
Yes the Custom Buckers are wax potted.

StanG
02-04-2013, 02:18 PM
I am not a humbucker les paul guy, but review of recent ngd posts shows that Gibson is putting out some beautiful guitars in 2013!!

vintage58
04-09-2013, 09:15 PM
I am not a humbucker les paul guy, but review of recent ngd posts shows that Gibson is putting out some beautiful guitars in 2013!!I agree — and I'm real happy with the one that I wound up getting. Here is a new pic of it:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1881/2013r9000010.jpg

ssdeluxe
04-09-2013, 10:19 PM
^^

wow ! that is nice !

aesthetically, I have to agree these 13's have something going on......I'm going to agree with those "specialists" who say maybe they are re-introducing "ehancer" on those tops....they really pop !

Folks who seem to know: have told me that hyde glue bonds extremely tight and crystalizes to a very hard bond enhancing vibration......titebond apparently does not do this....like very hard rubber......this makes sense......but i feel even titebond can't hold back a good piece of wood.

I have to give the nod to hyde glue just for its technically superior bond. (again according to some guys who would know.)

re: condom: I have several friends who have done the make-over (and also own real deal vintage gtrs..so they know !) and, they all say it "live-ens" up the gtrs every time...

this is all through the 'eye of the beholder'.

vintage58
04-10-2013, 07:25 AM
^^

wow ! that is nice !

aesthetically, I have to agree these 13's have something going on......I'm going to agree with those "specialists" who say maybe they are re-introducing "ehancer" on those tops....they really pop !Thanks! ;)

I concur that 2013 has had a lion's share of eye-popping tops, but I don't necessarily know that they are any more enhanced than those from other recent years of production. As regards the above photo of my 2013, it's worth noting that that picture was taken in strong direct sunlight on a cloud-free day. My point being, the top on my guitar doesn't "always" look like that below, for example, is an image of the same guitar photographed indoors and without a flash:


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8602/2013r900015.jpg

Johnnytone
04-10-2013, 08:58 AM
I read the 2013 tops (at least some of them) are Western big leaf maple instead of Eastern hard rock maple.

Anybody know this for a fact?

nbtrue
04-10-2013, 04:10 PM
I am not a humbucker les paul guy, but review of recent ngd posts shows that Gibson is putting out some beautiful guitars in 2013!!

I also will agree with this. After seeing all of the pictures and reading great reviews, plus all the changes they made this year I fell into the trap and have got myself a 2013 as well. I got a kind of dirty lemon burst one with lots of small flames on a flat sawn top that even has some mineral streaks in it. Gives it a pretty cool vintage look to it. I'm at work other wise I'd post a picture, but I will try and remember to post on tonight. I must say that I am extremely happy with it and feel as though it is living up to the hype. I know thats easy to say when its a brand new guitar that I just paid an arm and a leg for, but I've owned some R9's in the past so I at least have some knowledge of the previous models to compare it to. Obviously its not a night and day difference between the 13's and the previous years, and I know there is amazing examples from previous years, but when I'm spending this much on a guitar sometimes its the little things that make the difference. The fact that the upgrades they did this year are things that I'd have to send it off to another place to have done for basically the same price as the guitar is a good step for them I think and means something to me when making a purchase of this caliber. Plus I got a really good deal on it so I paid basically the same price as what people sell the older models for so it was kind of a no brainer for me haha!!

I will agree with Vintage58 that the top can change though depending on the lighting. In direct sun / light, like how a lot of people photograph their guitars, the flames are popping out of the thing, but when I'm sitting in my living room its not quite the same effect. Also with mine it is like a bright yellow in direct light, but a much more dirty lemon under normal light. But I got to say that that is pretty standard with any less paul or really any guitar where you can see the wood grain. In direct light it is obviously gonna look a lot more vibrant than when I'm sitting in my lazy-boy with the thing haha!

Now just to be objective I will say that I've upgraded my pots and caps to the RS vintage premium kit, but I do that to all my les pauls. The stock Bees and pots that gibson puts in there just don't cut it for me. And I will admit that I'm 50/50 on the Custom Buckers. The neck pickup sounds awesome, but the bridge pickup I'm not overly crazy about. It doesn't sound bad, and I liked it at first, but its just not the sound that i have "in my head" if you know what I mean. Personally I think its because they are using A3 magnets in them, and I just prefer the sound of either A2's or A5's in a les paul. I do think the Custom buckers are better than any burstbucker I've used, very clear and don't seem to get muddy at all, so they are definitely an upgrade, they're just not the sound that "I" want. Like I said, the neck sounds really good and I might actually leave that in there, but not to crazy about the bridge. I've always upgraded my pups anyways though because I've never got along with burstbuckers so this isn't a deal breaker for me.

Wow this got a lot longer than i was expecting haha!! Slow day at work I guess haha!! Overall I'm very happy with the my 2013. If your on the fence between a 13 and an older model, and they are roughly the same price, I would pick the 13 in a heartbeat. Although it also depends on which one sounds better so I take back what I just wrote, go with the one that sounds better haha!! For me the 13 sounded better than my 03 so I went with the 13.

Phil M
04-10-2013, 06:06 PM
I've owned about 10 Historics and they've all been great. I wasn't looking for another Les Paul but I got this 2013 R8 plaintop a few weeks ago. There were a bunch of great ones at the House of Guitars but I just had to have this one. At 8 lb 15 oz, it's a little lighter than any of the ones I've had and it just feels and sounds amazing. The new custom buckers are pretty mellow compared to the Burstbuckers - which I was never crazy about, especially in the bridge position. This one is so clear it's almost like a big Tele. These pickups are staying in!

I've been using Historic R7s and R8s since 2000 and I check the new models out every year. I don't get caught up in the idea of special years because they've been pretty consistent. These are expensive guitars so most of the time I have to pass but the 2013s have been outstanding so far. I'm strongly considering going back to the HOG and seeing if I can pick out another one.

How's this for plain?

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/yastom1/dhjbabhj_zps25e90a48.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/yastom1/DSC01091_zpsd3c481bf.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/yastom1/DSC01090_zps9046280a.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/yastom1/DSC01087_zps87a2e397.jpg

Groberts
05-24-2013, 02:12 AM
I finally got a chance to play a couple 2013 R8 Gibson Les Pauls. Compared them to a 2011 or 2012 R7 Goldtop that was at the shop. The R7 is a very nice guitar and I considered it at one time, but bought an R6 instead.

The 2012 (might be a 2011) R7 was almost one dimensional sounding compared to the 2013's with the Custom Buckers. The Custom Buckers had a lot more texture and nuance and sounded sweeter and more three dimensional to my ears. LOVED The 2013's! I played two R8's. One was lighter at 8lbs 7 oz's. The other one was 9lbs. The 9Lb guitar sounded hotter, got a little dirtier faster and just sounded like a little heavier guitar. But both R8's had more nuance and clarity in ways I like over the former year R7 I played. Definitely want a 2013!

smolder
05-24-2013, 07:33 AM
things I don't really care about:

historical accuracy
MAP
flame top
weight
aged finish
a super shiny finish

I wish the Gibson custom shop would put out the best sounding and playing les paul they could with any modern technology or design advances the would further those concerns. I really don't get the reverence to the 50's. I'll pay for performance, but not necessarily decoration and antiquity.

kingsxman
05-26-2013, 10:37 AM
things I don't really care about:

historical accuracy
MAP
flame top
weight
aged finish
a super shiny finish

I wish the Gibson custom shop would put out the best sounding and playing les paul they could with any modern technology or design advances the would further those concerns. I really don't get the reverence to the 50's. I'll pay for performance, but not necessarily decoration and antiquity.

Your in the minority. They make other Les Pauls then for you. THey're called Standards, or traditionals.

jelyfinger
05-26-2013, 10:42 AM
Your in the minority. They make other Les Pauls then for you. THey're called Standards, or traditionals.

ROFL! that is an EPIC quote! :)

Groberts
05-26-2013, 10:42 AM
Your in the minority. They make other Les Pauls then for you. THey're called Standards, or traditionals.

Historical accuracy or not, yesterday I had the chance to compare a Les Paul with a set of Real 50's PAF's to a 2013 Historic R8. ...Guess what? The real PAF's sounded best of course ...BUT ... the R8 was sooooooo good and closer to anything I've heard. It was stunning really! (The R8!) But ...like all guitars, I compared a few R8's and I had a clear favorite where the others were good, but one stood out. You still have to hand pick your instrument and find the one that speaks to you. Historical accuracy or not. Maybe that was the posters main point. ....find a guitar that plays well, feels good, sounds great regardless of other appointments.

That said, I personally enjoy the Historical accuracy ...when the guitar also sings and blows me away. Maybe I'm vain. But I like the way they look 'old' in a cool way too!

kingsxman
05-26-2013, 11:15 PM
Historical accuracy or not, yesterday I had the chance to compare a Les Paul with a set of Real 50's PAF's to a 2013 Historic R8. ...Guess what? The real PAF's sounded best of course ...BUT ... the R8 was sooooooo good and closer to anything I've heard. It was stunning really! (The R8!) But ...like all guitars, I compared a few R8's and I had a clear favorite where the others were good, but one stood out. You still have to hand pick your instrument and find the one that speaks to you. Historical accuracy or not. Maybe that was the posters main point. ....find a guitar that plays well, feels good, sounds great regardless of other appointments.

That said, I personally enjoy the Historical accuracy ...when the guitar also sings and blows me away. Maybe I'm vain. But I like the way they look 'old' in a cool way too!

I havent had the opportunity to play a REAL 59..but from posts on Les Paul forum and others who own both it sounds like the different is pretty minimal.

smolder
05-27-2013, 07:55 AM
Your in the minority. They make other Les Pauls then for you. THey're called Standards, or traditionals.

I think you missed my point. I want better built, better sounding, and better playing guitars... and those would come from the custom shop not the plant. I think guys get distracted by pretty and historically accurate... wild goose chases to me. I've never minded being in the minority.

kingsxman
05-27-2013, 09:36 PM
I think you missed my point. I want better built, better sounding, and better playing guitars... and those would come from the custom shop not the plant. I think guys get distracted by pretty and historically accurate... wild goose chases to me. I've never minded being in the minority.

I did miss your point. Sorry, I missed the custom shop part.

I think Gibson could do that but as long as people lust after the late 50's guitars Gibson will keep producing the historic clones and people will suck them up.

vortexxxx
05-28-2013, 01:01 AM
They went up in price quite a bit recently, which is why I had to pass on getting one but the specs are the best so far.

delay dude
07-26-2013, 01:42 AM
This, from Mark's Guitar Loft.

[COLOR="Blue"]NEW Gibson 2013 Custom Shop Reissue Les Paul Specs
(Item#474) The 2013 Custom Shop reissue Les Pauls are just being released and here is the list of cool changes to the appointments: Back to 1-piece rosewood fingerboards with real celluloid inlays, the neck set will now be done with Hide Glue, new vintage accurate truss rod with no sleeve, ...


Has anybody compared the 2013 Les Paul with an older one? Does the truss rod with no sleeve make a huge difference in sound?

Groberts
07-26-2013, 01:47 AM
Has anybody compared the 2013 Les Paul with an older one? Does the truss rod with no sleeve make a huge difference in sound?

Yes, I have compared a 2013 LP R8 to a 2011 R8 if that counts. I loved the 2013's, but after playing a few of the same 2013 model, they are like any guitar. You gotta find the one that speaks to you. Some always stand out while others are average. ...and average is still "great" by many standards.

How much tonal difference you hear cannot be attributed to just the truss rod since the PU's are very different from older models too.

delay dude
07-26-2013, 03:46 AM
Yes, I have compared a 2013 LP R8 to a 2011 R8 if that counts. I loved the 2013's, but after playing a few of the same 2013 model, they are like any guitar. You gotta find the one that speaks to you. Some always stand out while others are average. ...and average is still "great" by many standards.

How much tonal difference you hear cannot be attributed to just the truss rod since the PU's are very different from older models too.

Thank you very much for your reply!

How would you descripe the tonal difference between the 2013 and the 2011? (I know that it is hard to make a general statement. But from your experience.)
Does the 2013 with the new PUs sounds fatter/thinner, more or less attack, brighter/darker?

Groberts
07-26-2013, 11:20 AM
Thank you very much for your reply!

How would you descripe the tonal difference between the 2013 and the 2011? (I know that it is hard to make a general statement. But from your experience.)
Does the 2013 with the new PUs sounds fatter/thinner, more or less attack, brighter/darker?

All in all, I would choose a 2013 based on my comparisons. There was simply one 2013 that stood out and spoke to me more than the three others I played.

The 2013 was more organic, sweeter mids that were more complex and three dimensional. The 2011 sounded a bit edgier , not in a bad way. Some might prefer that depending on the style of rock you might be into. The 2013 was deeper and more dimensional. More touch sensitive nuances were there. IME/IMHO.

bluesjuke
07-27-2013, 11:12 AM
As you've said, "you've got to find the one that speaks to you".

The 2013 description of that one could well apply to my '98 R8.

Groberts
07-27-2013, 12:49 PM
As you've said, "you've got to find the one that speaks to you".

The 2013 description of that one could well apply to my '98 R8.

Agreed. If you have an instrument that is special, that's better than anything.

bluesjuke
07-27-2013, 01:24 PM
Like the '99 USA 335 that I loved as much as my Historic 335s.

jlb32
07-27-2013, 01:30 PM
I think you missed my point. I want better built, better sounding, and better playing guitars... and those would come from the custom shop not the plant. I think guys get distracted by pretty and historically accurate... wild goose chases to me. I've never minded being in the minority.


Overall the Custom Shop models are more consistent with being better built and better quality wood. I've come across many USA production LP's though that spank or hold their own to the Custom Shop models in feel, tone and playability.

I wouldn't over look the USA production models when checking out different Les Pauls. There are a lot of real gems in all categories.

Grizz_Lee
10-20-2013, 09:45 AM
So I'm about to go buy one today! It's a goldtop, I really loved it, but how do I know if it's a good one or a bad one?

I thought it played well and sounded great.

sidekick
10-20-2013, 09:51 AM
So I'm about to go buy one today! It's a goldtop, I really loved it, but how do I know if it's a good one or a bad one?

I thought it played well and sounded great.

Seems to me you have answered your own question.

How it feels/sounds/plays to you is all what counts and while some might compare it to others, often, having a "gut feeling" is right.

Groberts
10-20-2013, 10:22 AM
So I'm about to go buy one today! It's a goldtop, I really loved it, but how do I know if it's a good one or a bad one?

I thought it played well and sounded great.

I it plays well and sounds great, it IS a good one.

DiPa
10-20-2013, 01:35 PM
Gibson has listened to its customers henceforth the 2013 improved models.
The R9 this year is the best re issue I have seen or played.
For those who have not seen or played one, go check it out, you will not be disappointed.

buddastrat
10-20-2013, 02:12 PM
I've had a bunch of historic Pauls over the last decade or so. I liked the '99 I had. It probably had a bunch of bad features according to all the die hard Gibson guys, but it was cool. My friend's '00 is sweet too. light and resonant. Had an '02 I did not care for. It was lightweight but twangy and kinda thin sounding. When you closed your eyes, it did not sound like a LP, it sounded like any ordinary humbucker type guitar. Not that real silky, sustain, sing, and powerful kick that only a great LP has. finally decided on a scratch and dent '04 R8. 9lbs. is a nice healthy weight for an LP, and consequently has a great fat tone with some girth. not twangy like the overly resonant ones I owned were.

But I don't keep up on all the proper things like glue and dish and...I wouldn't even know the difference. You know Gibson holds out so each year they can add an "improvement". Fender does the same. So they can keep selling the same model. Can't blow their wad all at once. I didn't want to fall prey to their tactics. I just wanted to find the best sounding LP I could, it took me about 5 years on/off searching. Point I guess is they all vary, even with the CS among the same year. It was fun but got a little expensive. That was before kids!!!