Speaker Shootout! Wizard vs Tonespotter!

[scottl]

Here are a couple comparison clips of the Eminence Wizard vs the Eminence Tonespotter. The Wizard is loaded in an Avatar 1X12 and the Tonespotter is in a 2X12 Twp Rock Sig cab. Both loads were 8 ohm total. SM57 close miced on both. Amp was not changed between the first two takes. The last Tonespotter clip had a little less gain on the amp. The guitar was my Baker RF on the bridge. Recorded dry. A touch of reverb and delay in the mix. No EQ at all.

The amp is the Glaswerks SOD50 set to Hot Rubber Monkey mode. That would be the post overdrive tonestack. I also had the OD fat switch on to get lots of low end texture.

Wizard Clip 1 http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/HRMTestWizard.MP3

Tonespotter Clip 2 with less gain http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/HRMTestTonespotterLessGain.MP3

{NEW CLIPS! WITH AMP TWEAKS- Wizard}

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)[/URL]

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)[URL="http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMNoChoke05CL2.MP3"] (http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3)

I really think this mornings mods improved the amp tone... No?

Happy Holidays to all!

Scott

[fig]

Hi Scott -
I have to say all three sounded good. The Wizard gives you more highs. With the Tonespotters, I liked the one with less gain.
Hey, I need a Hot Rubber Monkey mode . . :D

Greg

btw, the Tonespotter is closer to RF's tone, to me.

[lhallam]

Damn Scott, there is nothing that I can put my finger to point out the differences. They sound too similar to these old ears.

I think being in the room allows for much better analysis.

Funny you should post this, I was going to ask you what you think of the TR cab. I can't tell much from the clips. What's your assessment? Drop me an e-mail if you want to. BTW - Happy Holidays.

[abergdahl]

Hard. i prefer the Tonespotter with less gain of the gainier clips I prefer the wizard :o .
The amp sound great, more bite and clarity than you're "usual" tone. :AOK

[Normster]

I wish I had spent some time with the Wizard when Greg was selling it. It seems to have a sweet top end. Probably would have been a good match for my amp since it's a little dark. On the other hand, I really like the balance and open sound of the Tonespotter clip. It does seem to have more of a musical quality, especially in the "less gain" clip. Was it my imagination or did the Wizard seem to go into harmonic feedback earlier?

BTW, that's a killer backing! Are you gonna post it? ;)

[scottl]

Thanks guys.....

Lance, you sure you did not hear a missive difference between the Wizard and Spotter?? They are very different.

Norm, the Wizard speaker is more efficient. The amp was a tad louder in the room on that take. I had to bump the mic pre on the Spotter clip. Good ears!

Scott

[scottl]

Here is another Wizard clip. I have a love/hate thing with these speakers.... They give me something I like, but something seems missing too.... Maybe I am crazy! I do agree that they seem well suited for higher gain tones.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/JimLoopHRM390pfNoFBLoop.MP3

[Woodyworld]

Here is another Wizard clip. I have a love/hate thing with these speakers.... They give me something I like, but something seems missing too.... Maybe I am crazy! I do agree that they seem well suited for higher gain tones.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/JimLoopHRM390pfNoFBLoop.MP3

Interesting hearing you say this Scott. Every time I load the wizard I love it for the first 30 minutes or so and then I start to really go off it. Can't quite put my finger on why , but it sometimes sounds a little sterile with my set up. Saying that though, I've had some pleasing results pairing them with other eminence speakers.

God I don't know with tone. Maybe it's like taste buds, somedays some things taste great and other days they just don't taste as good.......

Of the clips above:
#3 sat better with me, but as always with your takes they're all great tones.

[lhallam]

Thanks guys.....

Lance, you sure you did not hear a missive difference between the Wizard and Spotter?? They are very different.

Scott

Well on second listen I turned it up and could hear more distinct differences, I usually listen to stuff at a very low volume. It seems the Wizard has some more highs/bite maybe tighter focus whereas the Tonespotter sounds a little darker (in a good way), smoother and more open.

Hard to say which spkr I prefer as your clips sound great. Out of the 3 I liked the low gain Tonespotter the best.

[fullerplast]

It seems the Wizard has some more highs/bite maybe tighter focus whereas the Tonespotter sounds a little darker (in a good way), smoother and more open.

That's how I hear them also, and it agrees with my own findings with my ODS30. I prefered the tonespotters in a 2x12 cab, but if I had to go to a 1x12, I think I'd prefer the Wizard. I did not like the tonespotter in a 1x12 as much as the 2x12. As it turns out, in a 1x12 combo I prefer a stock (older) G12H30 to either.;)

Scott, I'm sure you know this, but when you have the tonespotters set up as a 2x12 you are changing the dynamics of the speaker from a 1x12, so your comparison is not totally apples to apples, even if you are only close micing one of them.

[slackandsteel]

I prefer the sound of the Wizard. It does have more toothiness than the Tonespotter and that's what I'm liking.

[cocheese]

Thanks for the comparison clips Scott. I've been wondering what these two speakers sounded like side by side. The Tonespotter has a more mid-focus and seems smoother than the Wizard. The Wizard seems a tad more expressive dynamically speaking. It picks up more of the chirp when you did in with the pick. I like them both. Tough choice! They're both winners!!! :D

[scottl]

I just posted two new Tonespotter clips. Same amp settings with just the tight/loose switch changed between takes. I made two internal tweaks to the preamp. Really richened up the mids I think!

Clip 1 set on tight http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3

Clip 2 set on loose http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMNoChoke05CL2.MP3

Thanks for listening!

Scott

[Rid]

Those Tonespotters are very sweet indeed.
Crisp, fat and clear...what else can you ask for??:D
And a pleasure with the playing.
Thanks for sharing.

[Normster]

Mmmm...creamy! The "loose" setting really softens the attack and smooths the top end. Kinda cool to be able to choose between tight and loose. (There's a part of me that was mighty uncomfortable saying that. lol)

[L5player]

Here is another Wizard clip. I have a love/hate thing with these speakers.... They give me something I like, but something seems missing too.... Maybe I am crazy! I do agree that they seem well suited for higher gain tones.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/JimLoopHRM390pfNoFBLoop.MP3

Oh yeah, the wizard hands down! It cuts through with the highs and does not seem overburdened with the mids like the tonespotter. Maybe the speaker is better matched to bring out the nuances in the Mod. Excellent tone! (note to self: find some wizzards :))

Jim

[Woodyworld]

I just posted two new Tonespotter clips. Same amp settings with just the tight/loose switch changed between takes. I made two internal tweaks to the preamp. Really richened up the mids I think!

Clip 1 set on tight http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3

Clip 2 set on loose http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMNoChoke05CL2.MP3

Thanks for listening!

Scott

Hi Scott,

I enjoyed these. They are quite different to your first tone submissions. It’s a Violinist type tone, very smooth with a nice creamy midrange. I compared it to the First low gain spotter clip and preferred them.
I think I like the #1 of these newest ones (http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3 (http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3)). Were splitting hairs at this point of course because they are all great tones, and it’s getting harder to rate one above another, but the bottom end sounded tighter and was more to my preference.

Woody

[granite]

I have read that the Wizard paired with a Red Fang in a 2x12 cab is just killer. Similar to a Cel Blue and G12H30. I'm leaning toward this Emi pair for my next cab. BTW...I preferred your Wiz clips.

[Woodyworld]

I have read that the Wizard paired with a Red Fang in a 2x12 cab is just killer. Similar to a Cel Blue and G12H30.

Hum that's interesting suggestion, I had not thought of that combination. I'll load them up later and try them. I did a quick tone take for someone on a Stonehenge and Wizard together which was a nice match. Its very short but gives a taster:

Wizard& Stone Henge (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/stonehenge/Stone_And_Wizzard.mp3)

The fangs Quite a bright speaker so I imagine it could sound nice considering the bottom end of the Wizard. Here's a Couple of Fang only samples here:

Fang 1 (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang.mp3)

Fang 2 (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang_mellow.mp3)

Fang Clean (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang_mellow.mp3)

If the Wizard and fang work well I'll post a seperate thread if anyones interested rather than distract from Scotts thread here:jo

[granite]

Hum that's interesting suggestion, I had not thought of that combination. I'll load them up later and try them. I did a quick tone take for someone on a Stonehenge and Wizard together which was a nice match. Its very short but gives a taster:

Wizard& Stone Henge (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/stonehenge/Stone_And_Wizzard.mp3)

The fangs Quite a bright speaker so I imagine it could sound nice considering the bottom end of the Wizard. Here's a Couple of Fang only samples here:

Fang 1 (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang.mp3)

Fang 2 (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang_mellow.mp3)

Fang Clean (http://www.maplemadness.btinternet.co.uk/fang/fang_mellow.mp3)

If the Wizard and fang work well I'll post a seperate thread if anyones interested rather than distract from Scotts thread here:jo

Awesome!!!! I would really appreciate a clip of the Fang/Wizard combo.

[jzucker]

have you swapped the speakers/cabs to account for any differences the cab may have on the results or are you assuming the close mic'ing eliminates the cab from the equation?

[hemlock]

I just posted two new Tonespotter clips. Same amp settings with just the tight/loose switch changed between takes. I made two internal tweaks to the preamp. Really richened up the mids I think!

Clip 1 set on tight http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMChoke05CL2.MP3

Clip 2 set on loose http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/AussenGlasSpotterHRMNoChoke05CL2.MP3

Thanks for listening!

Scott

I like these two better than any of the others. Gets some of the high end of the Wizard clip but all the smoothness of the first Tonespotter clips. Excellent!

[gsozz]

Clip 1 seemed to be more articulate to my ears. Both had steller tone though. Clip 2 seemed a tad darker. This new amp seems to have many different moods that it can express. Have you ever thought about catigorizing toe settings for a quick reference for the mood you want to set with a particular solo?
Greg

[Woodyworld]

Awesome!!!! I would really appreciate a clip of the Fang/Wizard combo.

Granite, I posted a new thread with a short clip. Hope it helps...............

Wizard & Fang (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=121636)

Cheers Woody

[granite]

Granite, I posted a new thread with a short clip. Hope it helps...............

Wizard & Fang (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=121636)

Cheers Woody

Thanks!
I posted my comments in the other thread. I was checking out your website last night and all the Eminence clips you have done are just a great resource.
They really give you a nice flavor for the new Eminence speakers. Celestion look out!

[stu42]

It seems to me that only the first two clips can really be compared directly because the subsequent clips you posted of the Tonespotters were after doing various amp tweaks. :confused:

So, just based on comparing the first two clips I like the wooly texture of the Tonespotters. It makes it seem like there's actually a bit more gain/thickness compared to the Wizard which sounds cleaner/clearer. The mid-emphasis is also kind of cool in that it highlights the lead sound of the guitar more. That said, the Tonespotter (and maybe this is just a side-effect of the particular mic position you had) seemed like it was a bit punchier or more abrupt in the attack than the Wizard.

So, I liked the wooly texture (reminded me of a G12H30) and mid-bump of the Tonespotter but I preferred the softer "feel" and attack of the Wizard.

My $0.02

[scottl]

Thanks Stu... I prefer the Wizard this hour as well.... lol

I just did these today. I further refined the amp. Much better, no?? Both Wizard.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)

[jzucker]

Thanks Stu... I prefer the Wizard this hour as well.... lol

I just did these today. I further refined the amp. Much better, no?? Both Wizard.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)

nice playing scott. Sorry it's taken me so long and I still don't have your tribute page up and running.

Anyway, can you post some clean fendery clips of the speakers?

[Normster]

Thanks Stu... I prefer the Wizard this hour as well.... lol

I just did these today. I further refined the amp. Much better, no?? Both Wizard.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)Sounds great, Scott...but you never have "bad" tone. ;)

So far you've been comparing HRM vs NoHRM by switching directly. Is it possible to get HRM tone in the NoHRM mode by tweaking the first tone stack? IOW, can you dial in a little more top end and gain to achieve the same result?

The reason I ask is because I think the HRM would be really useful for switching between Clean and OD and having just the right tone in each channel. In my current build, I like the clean mids scooped a little, but more mids and highs in OD. Will the HRM recover enough of the signal to do this?

[Marcello]

Thanks Stu... I prefer the Wizard this hour as well.... lol

I just did these today. I further refined the amp. Much better, no?? Both Wizard.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)

almost too thick IMO

[fullerplast]

almost too thick IMO

I'd have to agree, Scott. These are probably my least favorite of the clips you've posted on this thread.

You got yourself a catch 22 here....are you tweaking the amp to sound good with a particular speaker, or are you swapping speakers to sound good with the amp at a particular design point?;)

[scottl]

Interesting... I like them! I wanted that huge flubby bottom. Ya know, just turning the bass knob from 1 oclock to 12 oclock would have cleaned up the thickness.... Now I have to record another set of clips! LOL

I had the treble control a hair lower and the mid and bass controls a bit higher in these clips versus some of the others. Just moving one number in the opposing directions would have solved the issue. But, I appreciate the ears since I get fatigued and you guys may be right.

Subsequently to recording these, I did lower the bass hitting the OD by a hair and I also trimmed the bass coming out of the non-HRM mode. The tone is proabbly what you guys would consider more ideal. I was trying to get a certain bass texture in these which I believe I succeeded in btw. The way the amp sits now, it gets the texture but is more defined. You know new clisp will be forthcoming!

:AOK

Scott

[fig]

Thanks Stu... I prefer the Wizard this hour as well.... lol

I just did these today. I further refined the amp. Much better, no?? Both Wizard.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogHRMNC004OD1xx.MP3 (90s voice)

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/glas/FrogNoHRMNC004OD1.MP3 (80s voice)

Just my opinion, but I like these clips - although I like the "90s voice" better.

Greg

[Tomo]

Hi Scott,

All clips are great! Great playing as usual.

I have been using my Tonespotters in Bob Burt cab.
I am still loving my TS. You can hear it at NAMM.

Thanks for sharing great ideas to Jim Salman.
He did a wonderful job on my Fuchs 50. Great
clean a la Carlton-ish and singing od tone.


Tomo

[jzucker]

Hi Scott,

All clips are great! Great playing as usual.

I have been using my Tonespotters in Bob Burt cab.
I am still loving my TS. You can hear it at NAMM.

Thanks for sharing great ideas to Jim Salman.
He did a wonderful job on my Fuchs 50. Great
clean a la Carlton-ish and singing od tone.


Tomo

Tomo - I'm looking for speakers that'll sound good for SRV type clean stuff but also smooth fusiony leads ala Scott Lerner. Will the Tonespotters handle both situations or are they mostly for distorted tones?

[scottl]

Jack, check your email

[Tomo]

Tomo - I'm looking for speakers that'll sound good for SRV type clean stuff but also smooth fusiony leads ala Scott Lerner. Will the Tonespotters handle both situations or are they mostly for distorted tones?


Hi Jack,

Definitely the Tonespotters are great sounding both clean tone
and od tone. I would to try my Wizards too... but I am really happy
with my main cab with the Tonespotters.

Bob Burt 2 12 with the Wizard & the Tonespotter.

Tomo's clinic video Clean Tone (http://Richweb.net/TomoFujita/Twinkle1.wmv)


I also use the Red Ryder in my Bob Burt 1 12 cab. You 'll see this
at Eminence booth (NAMM). Great sounding speaker for 1 12 cab.
(for me)

Bob Burt 1 12 cab with the Red Ryder.

Tomo's video Fuchs 50 & SRV strat (http://richweb.net/TomoFujita/Fuchs1.wmv)

Wizard, Tonespotter, Red Ryder, Red White & blues... and more..
They are all great! Hope you find one for you.


Tomo

[MusicGearGuys]

Scott, as always your playing is so tasty and classy.
For my personal taste I do prefer a darker tone, so I'd go with the Wizard. Actaully I'd go with one of each in a 2x12 cab. I can see them complimenting each other well.
Have you tried any Celestions with this amp? The amp sounds fantastic. I'd bet it would light up with a V30 , or Greenback, or HC30.

For your playing style though I can hear you going through this amp with an 808 type pedal and JBL's. It would remain smooth withought the V30 type breakup.
Just my 2 cents, for what ever its worth.

Gregory

[jzucker]

Tomo,

Where can I buy your CDs?

[MusicGearGuys]

Tomo, I will see at the Merchants on Fri, and Sat.
Cant wait.
Gregory