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View Full Version : ***Budda, Dave Friedman and Naylor........the connection***


BrentSP
03-12-2013, 07:36 AM
I know there's a connection with all three but I'm very curious in how it all came about. Did Jeff Bober come up with the SD on his own or was Friedman involved in the design? Same thing with Joe Naylor, was Friedman involved in the design or was it just a coincidence? Looking at the schematics of the Budda SD, Naylor SD and Friedman Marsha and brown eye, they are all closely related, especially the Budda and Naylor where as the Friedman is using some diode clipping via Jose mods.

I'd love to know the story behind this if anyone knows. Thanks

Hulk
03-12-2013, 07:46 AM
I'm not involved in the situation, but I have done a lot of reading about it as I am a huge fan of the Naylor circuit, and currently own a Budda SD80.


The Naylor Superdrive 60 circuit was designed by Danny Russell (who now runs Bletchely amps). This pre-dates the Budda/Friedman amps. Somewhere along the way, the guitarist from A Perfect Circle had Friedman build him an amp with a Naylor Superdrive 60 preamp (I believe Dave made a few small tweaks) through a 100 watt JMP power section. This amp is now being sold by Friedman as the Naked amp.

In the meantime, Budda set out to develop the Superdrive series. The power amp is Budda's creation, whereas the preamp was developed in conjunction with/by Dave Friedman. It's said to be very similar to the pre of the Naylor and the Naked, and from where my ears are, it is. One of the Budda engineers once stated that they spent a day with Friedman and a soldering iron refining the dirty channel. That preamp is then matched with the 4 different Budda power sections (18, 30, 45, 80 watts).

Long story short - Naylor Superdrive 60, Budda Superdrive series, and Friedman naked all share a lot of the same preamp circuit design, with the Budda and Naylor being the closest to each other. The power sections are all different (Naylor is 5881s, Budda is EL84s, 6v6s, EL34s, and 6L6s, depending on wattage, and Friedman is 34s).

BrentSP
03-12-2013, 08:09 AM
I'm not involved in the situation, but I have done a lot of reading about it as I am a huge fan of the Naylor circuit, and currently own a Budda SD80.


The Naylor Superdrive 60 circuit was designed by Danny Russell (who now runs Bletchely amps). This pre-dates the Budda/Friedman amps. Somewhere along the way, the guitarist from A Perfect Circle had Friedman build him an amp with a Naylor Superdrive 60 preamp (I believe Dave made a few small tweaks) through a 100 watt JMP power section. This amp is now being sold by Friedman as the Naked amp.

In the meantime, Budda set out to develop the Superdrive series. The power amp is Budda's creation, whereas the preamp was developed in conjunction with/by Dave Friedman. It's said to be very similar to the pre of the Naylor and the Naked, and from where my ears are, it is. One of the Budda engineers once stated that they spent a day with Friedman and a soldering iron refining the dirty channel. That preamp is then matched with the 4 different Budda power sections (18, 30, 45, 80 watts).

Long story short - Naylor Superdrive 60, Budda Superdrive series, and Friedman naked all share a lot of the same preamp circuit design, with the Budda and Naylor being the closest to each other. The power sections are all different (Naylor is 5881s, Budda is EL84s, 6v6s, EL34s, and 6L6s, depending on wattage, and Friedman is 34s).

Concerning the 6v6, I'm not sure about the preamp design as I don't have a schematic but the 6v6 V-series sounds like a completely different animal and not just another SD with a new power section. From talking to Jeff he went with a more Fenderish design using the existing SD pcb board. My V20 loves Strats better than my LP's.

So Danny Russell is who we all have to thank for starting this madness of tone huh. Never heard of the guy. I had always thought Friedman was the brains behind the SD and I guess him and Jeff were to a point.

mike@switchback
03-12-2013, 08:18 AM
I had a Naylor Electra-Verb that was modded by Friedman to have a footswitchable clean channel. My understanding is that his mod was the impetus behind the Duel model Naylor.

I'm going to have to own a Friedman amp one of these days. The man obviously has a magic touch...

BrentSP
03-12-2013, 09:01 AM
I had a Naylor Electra-Verb that was modded by Friedman to have a footswitchable clean channel. My understanding is that his mod was the impetus behind the Duel model Naylor.

I'm going to have to own a Friedman amp one of these days. The man obviously has a magic touch...

I agree. Never played a Friedman but every clip and video that I hear of his amps I love. Especially the Brown eye and Naked. Great stuff.

Hulk
03-12-2013, 09:12 AM
Concerning the 6v6, I'm not sure about the preamp design as I don't have a schematic but the 6v6 V-series sounds like a completely different animal and not just another SD with a new power section. From talking to Jeff he went with a more Fenderish design using the existing SD pcb board. My V20 loves Strats better than my LP's.

So Danny Russell is who we all have to thank for starting this madness of tone huh. Never heard of the guy. I had always thought Friedman was the brains behind the SD and I guess him and Jeff were to a point.

The V20 is a totally different beast, but I thought the SD3 had 6v6s, thus I included them.

BrentSP
03-12-2013, 09:24 AM
The V20 is a totally different beast, but I thought the SD3 had 6v6s, thus I included them.

SD 18 and 30 has EL84s
SD 45 has KT66s
SD 80 has 5881s
V20 and V40 has 6v6s

:)

Hulk
03-12-2013, 10:32 AM
SD 18 and 30 has EL84s
SD 45 has KT66s
SD 80 has 5881s
V20 and V40 has 6v6s

:)

SD80 has 6L6s or 6550s. I'm not sure if it can also take 5881s, but it's stock 6L6s.

Hulk
03-12-2013, 10:33 AM
I think earlier ones were 5881s, but they're 6L6s now.

BrentSP
03-12-2013, 10:46 AM
6L6 and 5881 are one of the same. 6L6 is the American version and 5881 is the European version.

Hulk
03-12-2013, 10:51 AM
6L6 and 5881 are one of the same. 6L6 is the American version and 5881 is the European version.

REALLY?!? Ha! I didn't know that. So it's just the same translation as 12AX7 vs ECC83? That's pretty cool. I'd always heard that 5881s were a smoother more compressed tone than 6L6s... probably just people listening with their eyes. lol

martins3325
03-13-2013, 04:38 PM
REALLY?!? Ha! I didn't know that. So it's just the same translation as 12AX7 vs ECC83? That's pretty cool. I'd always heard that 5881s were a smoother more compressed tone than 6L6s... probably just people listening with their eyes. lol

I dont think Brent's statement is entirely true..my understanding is there are a few different 6L6 varieties. Here is what I have read...so might want to be careful before you just swap.

6L6GC - What most commonly think of when saying "6L6" has totallt different specs from 5881, with 500 volt at 30 watt plate ratings. And are not simple SWAP with a 5881...and the 6L6GC looks physically different

5881: Replaced the earlier tube designated as 6L6WGB and rate 360 volts at 23 watts. Of the older versions almost all 5881s were made by Tung Sol in USA ..and marked as 5881 ..so I dont think the 12ax7 vs ECC83 comparison is correct.

One NOS tube distributor makes a clear caveat on 5881s: "Most amps calling for a 6L6GC type will exceed these ratings, and the 5881 may overheat or arc over"

shanesiegle
04-17-2013, 05:36 PM
I dont think Brent's statement is entirely true..my understanding is there are a few different 6L6 varieties. Here is what I have read...so might want to be careful before you just swap.

6L6GC - What most commonly think of when saying "6L6" has totallt different specs from 5881, with 500 volt at 30 watt plate ratings. And are not simple SWAP with a 5881...and the 6L6GC looks physically different

5881: Replaced the earlier tube designated as 6L6WGB and rate 360 volts at 23 watts. Of the older versions almost all 5881s were made by Tung Sol in USA ..and marked as 5881 ..so I dont think the 12ax7 vs ECC83 comparison is correct.

One NOS tube distributor makes a clear caveat on 5881s: "Most amps calling for a 6L6GC type will exceed these ratings, and the 5881 may overheat or arc over"

This is correct, 5881's were a military spec tube but don't handle plate voltages up as high as 6l6gc's do. 5881's that I have used tend to have more mids going on as well and not quite as much low end. I have only used the tung sol version but man did they sound good!