Best height for tail piece on Les Paul

[harryjmic]

I have a 2005 R7 and have not had a Les Paul ever and am curious to know how everyone sets their tail pieces. I know that too steep of an angle can cause tuning problems but what about the Duane Allman technique of having the strings go over the tail piece. While I'm at, it how does the angle effect the tone of the guitar? I did some adjustments to it last night and it seemed as I decreased the string angle (raising mounting studs) the guitar opened up, I lost a touch of sustain and the bass lessoned some.

What generally happens tonally when changing the height of the mounting studs? I would assume tightened all the way down would give you the most sustain but this may not be true.

[Scott Cioe]

I usually adjust it until the tension feels "right" to me. The higher the tailpiece, the slinkier the feel.

[harryjmic]

Hey Scott,

Did you notice much of a tonal difference or was it all string response?

[Mickey_C]

Here's what I do - crank it down close as possible to the body. Down all the way - which is better sustain.

Now, run the strings through the tailpiece from the front to the back - so the ball will be on the bridge side of the tailpiece, and loop the string up over the top of the tailpiece. In most cases you will find that it's about as perfect a relationship as you can get it - and it feels and sounds great. The original LP only had the tailpiece, and the strings were wrapped over like this - so it was intentionally designed this way. If you want to get super fancy, buy a lightweight tonepros unit.

It's called "Top Wrapping." If you have the new Zeppelin DVD you will see that's how Jimmy's LP is setup - and he is just one of a host of players who do this.

You may need to increae your string size though - because it makes the guitar feel very slinky.

Enjoy,

Mickey C

[GuitarNorton]

I'm thinking about getting one of these http://www.tonetail.com and trying it.

[Mickey_C]

Yeah! That's the way - looks great, and the aluminum is the way to go, just like the originals. Mine is lightweight aluminum. It's a huge sound improvement combined with the top-wrap.

That top wrapped Lester picture shows exactly what I was talkin' about:

http://www.tonetail.com/images/closeup_guitar_sm.jpg

IMO That's the proper way to string a lester. Your ears and fingers will love you for it.

[harryjmic]

Alright, I'll do it. Once my strings wear out I'll try it out, after all if it worked for DA it has to be good.

[Scott Cioe]

Hi Harry,

I mainly feel the tension difference.

It has been a while since I have tried the top wrap though...Probably should give it another whirl...

[harryjmic]

Hello Scott,

I hope the tension doesn't change too much I already have 11's on it and don't want to move to 12's, ouch! I set the guitar witha little relief and high action, actually I just brought it a music store for a nut recut and the guy said he'd lower the action some but I told him I play finger style and like it higher.

Having the strings wrap around the top of the tail piece won't chew up the finish will it, any comments?

[Fireball XL5]

Having the strings wrap around the top of the tail piece won't chew up the finish will it, any comments?

It won't hurt the finish on the body but it will scratch up the tail piece. So be aware of that before you try it. :jo

I don't like or use the top-wrap method on my Les Pauls and prefer to string through the tail piece and adjust it so it is raised slightly off the body. I prefer the tone and feel with it set this way.

I don't notice any loss of low end or sustain on mine with the stop tail raised. I do notice a difference in feel and a slightly "more open" tone.

There are no set rules though....best to experiment to find "your sweet spot."

[trisonic]

I don't do the topwrap thing.

Once the bridge itself is set to the correct height for your action then I lower the tail piece until it's the lowest it'll go with the strings just touching the saddles only (i.e. they don't touch the back of the bridge).

Best, Pete.

[illinimax]

I don't do the topwrap thing.

Once the bridge itself is set to the correct height for your action then I lower the tail piece until it's the lowest it'll go with the strings just touching the saddles only (i.e. they don't touch the back of the bridge).

Best, Pete.

This works best for me too. The feel of the guitar is ideal for me when the strings break across the bridge at the same angle too.

[AaeCee]

I don't do the topwrap thing.

Once the bridge itself is set to the correct height for your action then I lower the tail piece until it's the lowest it'll go with the strings just touching the saddles only (i.e. they don't touch the back of the bridge).

Best, Pete. That's the way to do it. As far as improved sustain when the stoptail is flush to the body...I'm highly suspect of that. Place your finger on that final string angle and pluck the same string. How much vibration do you feel; how much does your touch interupt the tone? AC

[Mickey_C]

I've done it both ways. To really get the tailpiece to the same height with the holes, it needs to be up a bit - sometimes a good 1/2". If you think about it, that much less of the studs is screwed into the body, if nothing else. Furthermore, less of the string itself is contacting the tailpiece. Finally, the overall length of the string is not made longer, as in top wrapping. Those are three very real things affecting the tone.

But where does the extra string length count? In bending notes it significantly does, which is why the feel is so much slinkier.

Not starting a flame-war on top-wrapping versus not, it's just that it's a proven thing, and has been used by players from Les Paul to Duane Allman and Jimmy Page, with many significant players today doing so as well - Billy Gibbons being probably the most famous of all (arguably more famous than Zak Wylde, another top-wrapper). There's significant threads on this at the Les Paul Forum.

My final word - you should at least give it a try. Combined with a lightweight tailpiece you may find it's right for you.

Like the man said - find the sweet spot for your guitar, whatever it is.

[John Phillips]

I hear a significant difference between it cranked down hard and not cranked down hard (no matter how low), and I much prefer it tight. I don't know why it should make so much difference, since the posts aren't exactly buzzing around in the inserts when it's not down tight... but it does. I hear the difference as much more punch, 'ring' and resonance with it cranked down tight... a harder sort of tone with more definition.

I don't like to top wrap, to me that makes the string/saddle angle too low and takes away most of what you gain by cranking the tailpiece down hard.

Consequently I only like Les Pauls with low neck angles, since these are the only ones you can set up with the tailpiece cranked right down, strung normally and the strings not hitting the back of the bridge. Almost all the old ones are like that, and almost all the later ones are too steep (and much more variable too). FWIW, this is the 'correct' method, not top wrapping, if you look at Gibson's pics of Les Pauls in the 50s, but at the end of the day it's what sounds best to you that matters.

[AaeCee]

One other issue. Relieving the final string angle (raising the stoptail a bit) will also go a long way in preventing the inevitable bridge collapse. It's a long slow process, but will ultimately happen if the angle/pressure is too high over a long period of time.