Jimmy Page on Presence: Tea for one

[teddy boy]

Gents,

I've lately been getting seriously into Jimmy Pages sounds on the Led Zeppelin album Presence. There's some great overdubs and guitar orchestration on this baby. He's even giving the Stratocaster an outing! Whoa! But the Les Paul tone are just amazing on the tunes.

My question is on last song, Tea for one. I'm sure the guitar is an LP, but what else is there? Do you think it's echoplex and and plate for effects? What amps was he using during this period?

Cheers!

[fast ricky love]

I LOVE that track!! One of my favs... looking forward to hearing more technical info too...

[teddy boy]

Yeah!

Great phrasing and it just drips with emotion! I think it's close to being better than Since I've been loving you on ZepIII!!! Robert Plant also delivers one of his best vocal deliveries since Houses of the Holy.

Anyway, anybody have info on that tone?

[PlexiBreath]

Though Jimmy has used lot's of amps like Supro Fender Vox in the studio, he also brought in his Marshalls as well, and I heard one engineer say Zep sessions were loud as hell.
But I've had many Marshalls and two Hiwatts. Although I could cover that tone with a good plexi, I have a suspicion that the amp he's using on that track as well as a few others is a Hiwatt. I have no interviews or other information to back it up, and I could be wrond, it's just a gut feeling. Whenever I've used a Hiwatt, the tones from Presence were right there.

[trisonic]

It's probably his Supro and a Telecaster. :AOK
He's a Tele man really......

Best, Pete.

[teddy boy]

It's probably his Supro and a Telecaster. :AOK
He's a Tele man really......

I wish I knew for sure. I think the sound is a bit too big and open to be a Supro and a bit too muscular to be a Tele. But hey, who knows!

[Kaiser]

On GW's Guitar Legends there is an interview where Jimmy discusses one of the hits from each record, from Presence he talks about "achilles last stand", he said that for the album he was definatelly using Marshalls and Pauls, although, he used a Strat on "for your life", this are mainly for the main guitar track, BUT, he ends up saying that even though he used the Les Paul a lot, he still had an army of guitar to play with (overdubs), so, for me it's marshalls and pauls spiced up with the "army" of guitars and amps.

[jpagey]

Page's Les Paul had so many phasing and coil cut options with the switches he added that, unless you knew exactly which combination he used on a song, you would have a hard time replicating a tone. Plus, he played with miking a lot to vary tones.

[paulydangerous]

I used to play that tune years ago in a Power Trio band I was ever in..The first time we played it out I got chills man..Great tune..

[mrbluetone]

That was my college days album..listened to it everyday....great tone ..
I could never match......

[Kaiser]

Page's Les Paul had so many phasing and coil cut options with the switches he added that, unless you knew exactly which combination he used on a song, you would have a hard time replicating a tone. Plus, he played with miking a lot to vary tones.

+1
Couldn't agree with you more!!

[jpagey]

+1
Couldn't agree with you more!!

Thanks, that being said, I still get chills listening to Achilles Last Stand and Tea For One.

[teddy boy]

Lads,

Tea for one: +1 chill factor!

I'm repeating myself, but the nyances and phrasing are exquisite! Not to mention the tone...

[jpage]

Marshall and Paul. It's not the coil taps/switching that makes it so hard to duplicate the album tones (he rarely, if ever, touched them apparently) it's the mic placement. You can do SOOOOO much more tone shaping by moving mics than you will ever be able to accomplish by tapping a pickup, or even switching pickups for that matter.

Guy was The Master at using mic placement to conjure up ridiculous guitar tones. One listen to what he did with the Tele and the Supro on LZI proves that.

BTW, other than the solo on Stairway (the best of all time), I don't believe he ever used the (or "a") Tele again in the studio after that first album.

[ToneRanger]

Yep, a great track, a great player and a great band.

It's really hard to tell what Page played in the studio. And in the end I dont know if it matters that much. I was just thinking about Stairways solo, that was done with a Tele and it sort of just sounded like Jimmy Page. And in my mind when I think of Jimmy Page I always see this Zoso figure with a Les Paul hanging really low... But this sound is coming out of a Telecaster, which SHOULD sound nothing like a Les Paul...

Anyway, god knows what techniques he used in the studio to achieve those sounds.. Even if we had all the information none of us would sound nothing like him, I believe. Well ofcourse we would end up in the same tonal ballpark but that's about it..

A good example of a man with a signature sound is from the same band, John Bonhams drum playing. Whatever the miking technique, whatever the drums, he always sounded like John Bonham. Fat and powerful.

[teddy boy]

+1 on the above. Nothing sounds like John Bonham. The balance he had in his playing was incredible. He knew exactly how hard to play the kick in comparison to the hi-hat and snare. What a genius!

I guess mic placement should be considered an effect too. What do you think? Start a new thread on mic placement? It's got such an effect on guitar sounds anyway. Moving a mic an inch in some direction can take tone from dry and shrill to fat and meaty.

[ToneRanger]

+ 1 on the mic placing and John Bonham, man!

Even though it's in a way pointless to hunt down the gear your idols have played in order to try to replicate the sound yourself it can be a good starting place for trying out different gear.. But as said, tons of tricks can be pulled of in the studio.. Just read an old Eric Johnson interview where he said he preferred API preamps sound for rhythm and Neve for leads.. Would be nice to know if someone here has the option to choose between those :)

[trisonic]

Actually a number of classic solos from that Brit Rock era were done on Telecasters and Marshalls. People assume that they are Les Pauls and Marshalls. Tele's can get really muscular through a good amp.
I was at the sessions for the Keef Hartley Band "Battle of NW6" where Miller Anderson was laying down lead vocal and lead guitar at the same time on "Me and my Woman" - Tele thru JTM45/100 - full stack. You would swear it's a Les Paul. Of course someone was right in saying that mic placement was everything back then, sigh.....

Best, Pete.

[ScottB]

...how come 24 hours, baby some times seem to - slip in to days...

Love that tune!

How about Jimmy's other treatments of minor blues, Since I've Been Lovin' You and I'm Gonna Crawl. I love the solo in Crawl. I think it is arguably one of Jimmy's best structured solos.

[shallbe]

Marshall and Paul. It's not the coil taps/switching that makes it so hard to duplicate the album tones (he rarely, if ever, touched them apparently) it's the mic placement. You can do SOOOOO much more tone shaping by moving mics than you will ever be able to accomplish by tapping a pickup, or even switching pickups for that matter.

Guy was The Master at using mic placement to conjure up ridiculous guitar tones. One listen to what he did with the Tele and the Supro on LZI proves that.

BTW, other than the solo on Stairway (the best of all time), I don't believe he ever used the (or "a") Tele again in the studio after that first album.

I have to disagree with you here. It is obvious that Jimmy used a Tele with a B-bender on "In through the Out Door". It IS the guitar on "All my Love." He also used a Strat for "In the Evening." Jimmy was more than a master of mic placement. He was a great producer and would use the correct gear for each track, not really married to anything but the proper tone for the track.

Watching him play live, he tended to make the most of whatever pickup choices his guitar had. He rarely stays on one pickup or and volume/tone setting during a song.

[Mapleneck]

I can't remember very many specifics, but I read a pretty good article on Page a couple years ago and you would be (I was) suprised at which solos on some of Zeps studio albums weren't even played through an amp! He said he had some old tube compressors and old reel to reels with tube pres that would distort real cool, and he played direct into those on many tracks. I don't remember which ones off hand unfortunately, but I remember thinking that I would have never guessed they weren't amps. All is fair in love and war, and studio tone tricks.

[ToneRanger]

About Jimmy Pages producing still... It's funny to read Andy Johns (who did the engineering) interviews and compare them to Jimmy Page interviews. Two ecomaniacs who try to take all the credit to themselves, I read one interview where Andy claimed he invented stereo drum miking by mistake and so on and claimed that Page was always in the pub when all the real engineering was going on... And Page tells you it the other way aroung. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between :) Please dont take it as a flame towards Jimmy Page, it certainly isnt, I just thought that this was a funny bit of information...

[fakeox]

There is a nice link at the les paul forum with Jimmy & the yardbirds here.
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105663&highlight=yardbirds
Also the saddest gear story i've heard in a while. A "Friend" borrowed the psychadelic tele that Beck & used in the Yardbirds then gave to Page. He REFINISHED IT IN NATURAL!!!

[teddy boy]

I can't remember very many specifics, but I read a pretty good article on Page a couple years ago and you would be (I was) suprised at which solos on some of Zeps studio albums weren't even played through an amp! He said he had some old tube compressors and old reel to reels with tube pres that would distort real cool, and he played direct into those on many tracks. I don't remember which ones off hand unfortunately, but I remember thinking that I would have never guessed they weren't amps. All is fair in love and war, and studio tone tricks.

That would be at least the rhythm and solo on Black Dog on Zep IV. I think he used the same trick on the slide leads on When the Levee Breaks too. Cool sound!!

[Garygtr]

I have to disagree with you here. It is obvious that Jimmy used a Tele with a B-bender on "In through the Out Door". It IS the guitar on "All my Love."

I was gonna say the same thing, definitely his B-Bender equipped Tele...

[erksin]

That would be at least the rhythm and solo on Black Dog on Zep IV. I think he used the same trick on the slide leads on When the Levee Breaks too. Cool sound!!

Yeah - I've always thought 'Black Dog' was one of the most unique tones Page ever got (also had similar tones on 'Two Sticks'). The rhythm part sounds like a SS amp to me (Rickenbacher Transonic?), but could very well be the tricks you guys described with the decks. In the end, it doesn't really matter - the guy could make anything sound killer...

[not_so_new]

Yeah - I've always thought 'Black Dog' was one of the most unique tones Page ever got (also had similar tones on 'Two Sticks'). The rhythm part sounds like a SS amp to me (Rickenbacher Transonic?), but could very well be the tricks you guys described with the decks. In the end, it doesn't really matter - the guy could make anything sound killer...

Not sure if it is true but the legend is that Page played his '59 through a Uri 1176 compressor pushed hard into distortion then into another 1176 (most here probably know this but the 1176 is a ss compressor that was cool, then hated and is now back to cool status again. Very popular studio unit, even if you don't know it you have probably heard it 1000's of times on recordings over the years).

Anyway yes I agree very unique tone. The sound never touched a speaker or a mic for the whole recording so it has a kind of in your face sound. I have also heard that most of the guitar sounds on Zep 4 were done like this. Sorry to get off topic...:BEER

[erksin]

Not sure if it is true but the legend is that Page played his '59 through a Uri 1176 compressor pushed hard into distortion then into another 1176 (most here probably know this but the 1176 is a ss compressor that was cool, then hated and is now back to cool status again. Very popular studio unit, even if you don't know it you have probably heard it 1000's of times on recordings over the years).

Anyway yes I agree very unique tone. The sound never touched a speaker or a mic for the whole recording so it has a kind of in your face sound. I have also heard that most of the guitar sounds on Zep 4 were done like this. Sorry to get off topic...:BEER

Listen to the squished 12-string on 'When The Levee Breaks' - I bet that one was ampless too...

[teddy boy]

Yep,

A Urei 1176. Great sounding stuff!

The twelve-string on When the Levee Breaks most likely was direct and I'm absolutely sure the slides were! That is one evil slide tone!