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SlyStrat
01-13-2006, 10:00 AM
I've read some stuff about the Eminence Red Coat speakers being better than Celestions. Anyone have some tone comparison feedback?

granite
01-13-2006, 10:26 AM
Tone comparisons are so subjective. I was in the Celestion camp forever until I started hearing the buzz around the new Eminence Red Coat & Patriot speaker lines. There are a lot of great speaker clips in the member sound clips area and after a lot of reseach I settled on a Red Fang / Wizard in a 2x12 cab. Sonically, similar to a Cel Blue & a G12H30 pairing only better sounding to my ears. I think the Cel Blue is still tops, but the Red Fang is so close and ALOT less expensive that I can't see how anyone would spend the extra dough on a Cel Blue. I'm fully in the Eminence camp now.

timc
01-13-2006, 11:36 AM
Again, very subjective, but I've heard that emmi's in general are brighter due to design and the builder than the celestions. Any truth from experience?

gearo999
01-13-2006, 11:40 AM
Tone comparisons is so subjective. I was in the Celestion camp forever until I started hearing the buzz around the new Eminence Red Coat & Patriot speaker lines. There are a lot of great speaker clips in the member sound clips area and after a lot of reseach I settled on a Red Fang / Wizard in a 2x12 cab. Sonically, similar to a Cel Blue & a G12H30 pairing only better sounding to my ears. I think the Cel Blue is still tops, but the Red Fang is so close and ALOT less expensive that I can't see how anyone would spend the extra dough on a Cel Blue. I'm fully in the Eminence camp now.

granite,

what style of music do you play?

Mark

granite
01-13-2006, 01:15 PM
granite,

what style of music do you play?

Mark

Original Indie type rock. Sonically a cross between the Gin Blossoms meet Matthew Sweet. Not high gain.

granite
01-13-2006, 01:17 PM
This might not matter to others, but another reason I'm gravitating towards Eminence is that all their speakers are still manufactured in the USA. Celestion has moved most (not all) of their speaker production to China from the UK.

Anyone interested in real good Eminence speaker clips should check out the following link. http://www.woodys-guitar-world.co.uk/listen.htm

Woody is a member here. The Emi clips are at the bottom of the page

Shea
01-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Again, very subjective, but I've heard that emmi's in general are brighter due to design and the builder than the celestions. Any truth from experience?

I've heard that the Eminence Legend G12B is "warmer" than a G12H30, for whatever that's worth.

There's been so much talk about the Patriot / Redcoat series lately, it's easy to forget that Eminence also has its Legend series.

Eminence has so many freakin' models, I wouldn't know how to pick one if I needed to. And I sort of do need some new speakers.

Shea

keith_t4e
01-13-2006, 10:39 PM
I appreciate the person who broke camp because of Celestions being made in China; however, certain models are still being made in UK right?
I've always been a celestion guy though many of the cabs I'm interested in now are going with em.

j37nm
01-16-2006, 12:26 PM
The eminence red coat speakers have a better & more extended "high end." The red coat "low end" is less prominent than celestion speakers. The eminence models (i.e. wizard, texas, etc) with "aggressive bass" are only on par with the bass of a standard celestion v30, classic lead 80, etc. At least this is my perception when comparing the low end. The mid range is comparable between both models. Overall, this gives the impression, at least to my ears, that the eminence models are clearer.

This is especially true with clean guitar tones. The eminence red coat speakers blow away the celestions for clean tone. Hands down, my choice is the eminence for clean tone. If you play clean style jazz, country, classical, blues, rockabilly, etc; I think the eminence is much better.

The eminence red coat speakers have a different "grit." It is a little stiffer than the celestion grit. For some styles (especially for lead guitar work), this stiffer grit is very musical. For distorted guitar chording & rhythm playing, the celestions grit is more "open," sounding compared to the red coats. My opinion is that the celestions are a bit better sounding for this distorted riffing (hard rock & metal especially). Overall, distorted guitar sounds are a bit smoother through the celestions when compared to the eminence. At least, this is my opinion.

As always, this depends on many factors (guitar, pick up, amp, power tube, cabinet, playing style, preference). YMMV

j37

Passenger84
01-16-2006, 01:57 PM
I used to be fully into Eminence, especially because of the fact that they're made in the US. But lately, I've gone over to Celestion, even though I'm quite sure the ones I currently have were made in China. It seems to me (as of today, we'll see where my opinion lies next week hehe) that the Celestions have a more "focused" tone, where as Eminence are a bit more "spread out". Does anyone else seem to hear this?

granite
01-16-2006, 02:14 PM
I used to be fully into Eminence, especially because of the fact that they're made in the US. But lately, I've gone over to Celestion, even though I'm quite sure the ones I currently have were made in China. It seems to me (as of today, we'll see where my opinion lies next week hehe) that the Celestions have a more "focused" tone, where as Eminence are a bit more "spread out". Does anyone else seem to hear this?

One person's "focused" is another person's "narrow" and one person's "spread out" could be another's "3-D or full". It really depends on the style of music you play, your amp, and what you are using for reference tones.

For me, many of the Celestion models sounded harsh and narrow. I was looking for a more spread out/ 3D Full type of tone and the Eminence Fang/Wizard combo fit my needs to a tee. Celestion speakers fit other people's needs. Hard to say which is "best", but I really believe Celestion made a huge error moving most of their production to China. Worse thing they could do IMHO. Eminence is capitalizing on Celestion's bad business move.

Gary Ladd
01-31-2006, 07:43 PM
One person's "focused" is another person's "narrow" and one person's "spread out" could be another's "3-D or full". It really depends on the style of music you play, your amp, and what you are using for reference tones.

For me, many of the Celestion models sounded harsh and narrow. I was looking for a more spread out/ 3D Full type of tone and the Eminence Fang/Wizard combo fit my needs to a tee. Celestion speakers fit other people's needs. Hard to say which is "best", but I really believe Celestion made a huge error moving most of their production to China. Worse thing they could do IMHO. Eminence is capitalizing on Celestion's bad business move.

+1 :Spank

Celestion has also lost me, my money, my respect and free product references...

I won't buy Chinese gear :rolleyes:

celestion101
01-31-2006, 08:13 PM
I appreciate the person who broke camp because of Celestions being made in China; however, certain models are still being made in UK right?
I've always been a celestion guy though many of the cabs I'm interested in now are going with em.

Yes we still make a number of models in the UK....Heritage Series (G12H, G12M, G12-65), Blues, the new Gold (50 watt "Blue" launched at NAMM), Century, and other occasional fun projects.

Matt Gordon
01-31-2006, 08:54 PM
Eminence manufactures in China also, though they claim it's to stay in that market. I'm absolutely sure none will show up in the USA . . . Anyway, I will always be a Celestion person, and of the Emi's I have, not one is what I would call better than Celestion. I haven't tried them all though, but I won't. Those that like them, like them. Those that don't. dont. :AOK

fast ricky love
01-31-2006, 09:06 PM
The eminence red coat speakers have a better & more extended "high end." The red coat "low end" is less prominent than celestion speakers. The eminence models (i.e. wizard, texas, etc) with "aggressive bass" are only on par with the bass of a standard celestion v30, classic lead 80, etc. At least this is my perception when comparing the low end. The mid range is comparable between both models. Overall, this gives the impression, at least to my ears, that the eminence models are clearer.

This is especially true with clean guitar tones. The eminence red coat speakers blow away the celestions for clean tone. Hands down, my choice is the eminence for clean tone. If you play clean style jazz, country, classical, blues, rockabilly, etc; I think the eminence is much better.

The eminence red coat speakers have a different "grit." It is a little stiffer than the celestion grit. For some styles (especially for lead guitar work), this stiffer grit is very musical. For distorted guitar chording & rhythm playing, the celestions grit is more "open," sounding compared to the red coats. My opinion is that the celestions are a bit better sounding for this distorted riffing (hard rock & metal especially). Overall, distorted guitar sounds are a bit smoother through the celestions when compared to the eminence. At least, this is my opinion.

As always, this depends on many factors (guitar, pick up, amp, power tube, cabinet, playing style, preference). YMMV

j37

I thought this was bang on.

Gretschman
02-02-2006, 12:27 AM
I buy both . I just purchased 32 Eminence speakers today . I still buy Celestion speakers as well . Let your ears do the talking for you . I bought 10 celestion blues about 3 months ago . I plan on buying 12 Heritage speakers .

There is a " Best " speaker for every amp and guitar sound , the thing is , you are the one in charge of desideing which one is the best.

Let me address the China thing for a moment . I have tested the Celestion Green backs in the studio . China VS Britan . There is no difference . Same tone , same range , NO difference .

I love the Celestion Blues , the Green Backs and the Heritage series speakers .

I also love Eminence Swampthang , Cannabas Rex , The Red White & Blue, The Texas Heat, Red Fang & Ram rod .

The reason is, I own 26 different Amps and each one has a " Best " tone .
I have to please very tuff customers tonally . So I need to find that tone , and part of the way I acheive that is with speakers .

This coming year the good folks at Eminence will launch a new program .
They will have Master Dealers across the country putting in a speakers switching network . Here you will be able to test all their speakers one at a time useing your favorite amp and guitar . This is the way it should be !

Best of luck ,

KenSea
02-02-2006, 12:42 AM
I buy both . I just purchased 32 Eminence speakers today . I still buy Celestion speakers as well . Let your ears do the talking for you . I bought 10 celestion blues about 3 months ago . I plan on buying 12 Heritage speakers .

There is a " Best " speaker for every amp and guitar sound , the thing is , you are the one in charge of desideing which one is the best.

Let me address the China thing for a moment . I have tested the Celestion Green backs in the studio . China VS Britan . There is no difference . Same tone , same range , NO difference .

I love the Celestion Blues , the Green Backs and the Heritage series speakers .

I also love Eminence Swampthang , Cannabas Rex , The Red White & Blue, The Texas Heat, Red Fang & Ram rod .

The reason is, I own 26 different Amps and each one has a " Best " tone .
I have to please very tuff customers tonally . So I need to find that tone , and part of the way I acheive that is with speakers .

This coming year the good folks at Eminence will launch a new program .
They will have Master Dealers across the country putting in a speakers switching network . Here you will be able to test all their speakers one at a time useing your favorite amp and guitar . This is the way it should be !

Best of luck ,

I have a Carr Rambler and have considered upgrading the speaker with either a Celeston Blue or maybe a Heritage greenback. But have considered the Eminence speakers too, would love some input here. I have read the blues sound great at low volume levels too.Thanks

Voodoo Amps
02-02-2006, 07:47 AM
We had done extensive testing and A/B'ing between the Celestions and Eminence speakers. When all was said and done the Celestions just seemed to have the tone that our ears were looking for. As others have mentioned the Eminence speakers we tested did seem to have more top end or were brighter (could get harsh quickly depending on your amp, guitar, pickups, etc.) where as the Celestions always seemed to retain enough top end without getting harsh or crass. The bottom also seemed to be richer when compared to the Eminence so all in all we ended going with Celestions and we've been extremely happy. Also it may be worth noting that thus far we have not had any defective speakers (getting ready to order another two pallets worth of speakers).

It's not to suggest in any way that Eminence makes bad sounding speakers so please do not take it as such. They were very kind and gracious to us which says a lot about any company. I'm just sharing our experience, nothing more - nothing less :)



For what it's worth
Trace

RGB
02-02-2006, 09:05 AM
I have cabs and combos with both Emi's and Celestions and I'm very happy with both. My favorite is Mesa's MC90...a UK Celestion...and Emi's Man O' War is a close second. The C Rex next and the Chinese G12H30 brings up the rear. I also have some OEM Legends that are great sounding speakers. I guess it just depends on the application because both companies make a fine product, in my opinion.

sosomething
02-02-2006, 09:39 AM
In my live rig I use a Splawn 4x12 with 2 Emi Guvernors and 2 Emi Man'O'Wars in an "X" pattern and find the tone to be very pleasing. I've listened and compared this cab with a number of Celestion-loaded cabs and this is what I've found:

The Guvernor is tonally very close to a V-30, but I think the high end rolls off just a teensy bit sooner on the Governer. Also it seems like the Governor needs to be pushed a little harder to break up. Otherwise I could tell very little difference between the two. The mid-spike is in exactly the same place, but like I said - between the speakers I tried, the Governer is a little darker.

The Man'O'War was the real surprise for me. I LOVE these speakers. For some reason I could never stand Celestion T-75s - they always seemed overly sharp and harsh to me. The Man'O'Wars have all the same frequencies (not sure how else to put it) but they seem to be aligned better? The speaker sounds much smoother without sounding darker. I'm not sure how this is possible. It might just be the Splawn cab that's responsible for this.

Either way, sign me on as a happy RedCoat user.

TaZMaNiO
02-02-2006, 04:36 PM
The whole Sino-American relationship is a little weird/strange/bizaar to me, someday I think a LOT of folks are gonna regret they ever thought that was a GOOD idea.

Personally I don't shop at places like WalMart, GC, PayLess etc. etc. because I don't need to buy cheap crap! :p


But if people are selling things at made in the west prices and sort of not labeling it to hide where it was actually made I think that really SUCKS

I don't care what company is doing it and it may in fact be illegal :NUTS

aeolian
02-02-2006, 05:00 PM
For me, I like the way Eminience "improves" upon various standards. Usually better power handling, a bit more solid low end, better efficiency. I'm in the camp that focused isn't an attribute. I find many of the Celestions to be pinched or nasal compared to the equivilant EMI "clone".

stephenT
02-02-2006, 05:44 PM
I A/B-ed two Goodsell delux 22s with Vintage 30s and Private Jacks. I thought the V30s had a nasal quality and a bump in the upper mids I didn't like. The PJs seemed open, balanced and full, which is the tone i go for. I now own the Goodsell 22 with the 2x12 PJs.

And then I replaced the Cannabis Rex (fine spkr) with a PJ in my Goodsell Super 17, I think it's a great spkr.

aaron1433
03-22-2009, 11:32 AM
hate to add more fuel to the US vs China debate, but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like there is hardly an magnets being manufactured inside the US anymore. I think a good amount of speaker components are coming from overseas, regardless of brand.

Goldstrat
03-22-2009, 12:18 PM
I think matching the right speaker to the amp is more important than who builds it. I like the old Celestions best. If I need a new speaker I like weber and Scumback much better than either of the others.

rockon1
03-22-2009, 02:01 PM
This might not matter to others, but another reason I'm gravitating towards Eminence is that all their speakers are still manufactured in the USA. Celestion has moved most (not all) of their speaker production to China from the UK.

Anyone interested in real good Eminence speaker clips should check out the following link. http://www.woodys-guitar-world.co.uk/listen.htm

Woody is a member here. The Emi clips are at the bottom of the page


Eminence just opened a plant in China. For now its goal is to serve Eminence customers that were manufacturing in Asia. So all the import amps that use Eminence will have Chinese made speakers. Its only a matter of time I bet before US manufacturing will be phased out. :( Bob

http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=402&Itemid=26


....

mooreamps
03-22-2009, 05:33 PM
Yes we still make a number of models in the UK....Heritage Series (G12H, G12M, G12-65), Blues, the new Gold (50 watt "Blue" launched at NAMM), Century, and other occasional fun projects.

I have a couple of Celestion neo mag New Century 12's in my mahogany 2x12 cab. This combination makes for a fine, fine, cab. Sure, these speakers were not cheap, but then neither is the tone they make. I'm sure Celestion New Century will always be loaded in all of my equipment.

-g

Mr.Strat
07-31-2011, 08:30 PM
hate to add more fuel to the US vs China debate, but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like there is hardly an magnets being manufactured inside the US anymore. I think a good amount of speaker components are coming from overseas, regardless of brand.

American amp tone coming from overseas!:omg

qingcong
07-31-2011, 09:33 PM
Listening back to live recordings of cabs loaded with V30s and G12H30s versus my cabs loaded with Governors and Wizards, the recorded tone of my Celestions came out very present whereas the Emis came out more distant, like a little high end rolloff was going on.

Perhaps it was the recording setup, who knows. The other guitar player had a very "present" tone versus the "distant" tone of my Eminence. I'm pretty sure his cab had V30s in it.

Mr.Strat
07-31-2011, 09:35 PM
Listening back to live recordings of cabs loaded with V30s and G12H30s versus my cabs loaded with Governors and Wizards, the recorded tone of my Celestions came out very present whereas the Emis came out more distant, like a little high end rolloff was going on.

Perhaps it was the recording setup, who knows. The other guitar player had a very "present" tone versus the "distant" tone of my Eminence. I'm pretty sure his cab had V30s in it.


i noticed the same thing in those 2 youtube speaker shootouts that Rivera did.

CharlyG
07-31-2011, 09:43 PM
Well, I put a Tonkerlite on top of a Swamp Thang in a 2x12 Portabass cab, and holy smokes! It makes your jaw drop!!

The Alchemist has a Heritage and a Greenback. Tomorrow when I can crank it, Ima do an A/B with the Portabass..........Can't wait!

qingcong
08-01-2011, 08:18 AM
i noticed the same thing in those 2 youtube speaker shootouts that Rivera did.


I saw those videos and thought the same thing.

longi
08-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Going on with the cheap Chinese labour thing. I was listening to an article on BBC Radio four last week, it's thought that the era of cheap Chinese products is rapidly coming to an end. Chinese workers are starting to want, and get paid more now. Supposedly, a fair few Chinese companies are thinking of, or are starting to out source to foreign manufacturers to try and stay competitive. In a few years or so the Chinese may well become a victim of their own success having grown too quickly, so you may well find some homegrown manufacturers shifting production back home in the next few years or, production being shifted over to Africa (Still not helping our own economies). Time will tell.

CharlyG
08-01-2011, 12:45 PM
The Epiphone factory in China is an example of the improved conditions. It is run by an American Gibson guy, and IMHO, getting better each year!

Guinness Lad
08-01-2011, 12:48 PM
I've heard that the Eminence Legend G12B is "warmer" than a G12H30, for whatever that's worth.

There's been so much talk about the Patriot / Redcoat series lately, it's easy to forget that Eminence also has its Legend series.

Eminence has so many freakin' models, I wouldn't know how to pick one if I needed to. And I sort of do need some new speakers.

Shea

Wrong comparison, this is better -

G12H30 = Wizard
V30 = Governor
Private Jack = GB128
Tonker = Fane?
1265 = ToneSpotter?

Hendog
08-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Many of the Eminence speakers don't have the presence to cut.

I do agree though that there are far too many choices and they need to narrow the line a bit.

wizard333
08-01-2011, 05:54 PM
Huh? I use C.Rex in a lot of amps, and even though it attenuates the ice pick, it cuts extremely well. In a way where the notes are distinguishable, not as an angry mosquito of buzz.

I use Celestions for 20 years or so, always found them a bit harsh, switched to Eminence and never looked back. I'm not so much into that Celestion family of tone anymore, but even for the Emis that emulate that type of tone, I found them much more pleasant, for instance the private jack pretty much blew any greenback or H30 I ever owned out of the water. The only one I seriously do not like so far is the Wizard, which emulates the V30 a bit too closely.

They cover a lot of ground in the Celestion tone family, albeit better IMO, and a lot of ground nothing in the Celestion family even touches.

The made in USA thing is major bonus to, as well as the price difference which is inexplicable when compared to a chinese speaker.

They probably could stand to drop a few of the less well selling models, but thats more of an inventory cost thing and if it isn't bothering them, so what.

CharlyG
08-01-2011, 07:34 PM
There seems to be this disagreement between guitar players and soundmen. Guitar players are always worried abut getting lost in the mix. That is what a mix is, a mix of all the instruments with none overpowering(or "cutting thru") the other. Imagine if everyone setup to "cut thru". THAT would be the new mix, and prolly sound awful. I notice some folks use "sits in the mix", which is a better way to look at things IMHO.


Picture an orchestra, which would be even worse if everyone wanted to "cut thru"!


Just sayin....

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

wizard333
08-01-2011, 08:20 PM
There seems to be this disagreement between guitar players and soundmen. Guitar players are always worried abut getting lost in the mix. That is what a mix is, a mix of all the instruments with none overpowering(or "cutting thru") the other. Imagine if everyone setup to "cut thru". THAT would be the new mix, and prolly sound awful. I notice some folks use "sits in the mix", which is a better way to look at things IMHO.


Picture an orchestra, which would be even worse if everyone wanted to "cut thru"!



The best mixes are where you can hear the notes and parts played by any individual instrument if you concentrate on it, but as a whole it still blends. This is possible even with complex instrumentation.

The worst mixes are where you have a hard time hearing the notes and parts played by any instrument, and it comes off as an awful jumbled mess.

CharlyG
08-01-2011, 08:21 PM
I agree with that.

qingcong
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
The only one I seriously do not like so far is the Wizard, which emulates the V30 a bit too closely.



Spot on. In some recordings I did at home, I found that the Wizard, while technically is a clone of the G12H30, actually sounds a LOT like the V30. I actually like the Wizard a lot though, probably because I like the V30 to some degree.