Finger Picking

[rmj254]

What do you guys think about using finger picking exclusively to play electric guitar in a blues, jazz fusion, rock style? Give me some of your experiences... I would like to be able to try to play in the style of Allan Holdsworth (yeah right!), Derek Trucks, and some other of the sax players in jazz (Charlie Parker, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane). Is this possible with fingerpicking and mostly legato playing? I know that I asked quite a few questions...sorry about that. Any help will be appreciated!

[jzucker]

Yes it's possible. RichardB (Richard Bornman) who posts here plays with fingers and has amazing chops.

Also, Kevin Eubanks has amazing chops and he plays like that. Rodney Jones plays with a pick but I've heard some amazing fingerstyle stuff from him as well. Doug Wamble plays some shit you wouldn't believe with fingerpicking. Very deep jazz groove too. Brett Garsed may play fingerstyle as well.

I've tried to switch several times but never made the full leap. Frankly, I think it's the *ONLY* real way you'll ever cop piano and saxophone lines ala Herbie, McCoy, Chick, Trane, Bird, Shorter, etc.

[rh]

Yes it's possible. RichardB (Richard Bornman) who posts here plays with fingers and has amazing chops.

Also, Kevin Eubanks has amazing chops and he plays like that. Rodney Jones plays with a pick but I've heard some amazing fingerstyle stuff from him as well. Doug Wamble plays some shit you wouldn't believe with fingerpicking. Very deep jazz groove too. Brett Garsed may play fingerstyle as well.

I've tried to switch several times but never made the full leap. Frankly, I think it's the *ONLY* real way you'll ever cop piano and saxophone lines ala Herbie, McCoy, Chick, Trane, Bird, Shorter, etc.

Fingerstyle? Two words: Tom Lippincott!

[neve1073]

Also check out my friend Dave Bernstein's playing; he is a great jazz player in the bebop post-bop vein. He plays with his fingers.

http://davebernsteinmusic.com/

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/reviews/r1102_108.htm

He's a wicked straight ahead blues guitarist too.

His fingerstyle technique is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I believe he alternate picks with his thumb and i (first) finger, but his thumb goes in towards his palm towards his knuckles.

[rmj254]

I've become fascinated with legato and fingerstyle playing after hearing Derek Trucks and Allan Holdsworth respectively. These guys you have mentioned are great also!

[jzucker]

Guys - Do yourself a favor and check out Richard Bornman's clips:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=13286

[rmj254]

WHOA! :eek: That was incredible! Wicked Chops! Where can I get an album of that?

[jzucker]

WHOA! :eek: That was incredible! Wicked Chops! Where can I get an album of that?

Search the boards for RichardB. He posts here all the time.

[rh]

Search the boards for RichardB. He posts here all the time.
Not to take a thing away from RB by mentioning Tom Lippincott again, but there's something about Tom's fingerstyle chops that is uncommonly musical to me.

An old version of 'Green Dolphin Street'
http://www.tomlippincott.com/sounds/solo/green.mp3

An old, but still beautiful tribute to Bill Evans
http://www.tomlippincott.com/sounds/solo/trib.mp3

Newer, Bill Frisell-meets-Pat Metheny piece
http://www.tomlippincott.com/sounds/tltr/exist.mp3

Just sharin' the love here.

[jzucker]

Not to take a thing away from RB by mentioning Tom Lippincott again, but there's something about Tom's fingerstyle chops that is uncommonly musical to me.

I agree but I thought the original topic was a technique thing. In any event, I think Richard's extremely musical too although many of his clips display his chops moreso than his melodic and harmonic chops.

[rh]

I agree but I thought the original topic was a technique thing. In any event, I think Richard's extremely musical too although many of his clips display his chops moreso than his melodic and harmonic chops.

I'm completely on topic. Tom has a completely developed fingerstyle technique--single note, plus these Bill Evans voicing chops I've never heard elsewhere on guitar.

Does nice things with that 8 string, too.

[jimfog]

......many of his clips display his chops moreso than his melodic and harmonic chops.

+ 1!!

- jim

[jimfog]

I'm working on going 100% fingers too, and I'm finding that on fast single notes, while thumb and middle finger works best for me, I have a tendency to clip off the note as I hit the next....giving it a bit of a choked, staccato sound. You can hear this in Knopfler's playing (although he uses it as part of his style)...and even in RichardB's clips. Impressive fluency, but he clips off the tail end of the preceding note with his next attack. Hard to be legato at up tempos with this style.

Oh well.....another few decades of work and I may start to get it.

-Jim

[neve1073]

Another guy to check out if you are into fingerstyle jazz is Martin Taylor. Search for him on amazon and listen to some of his clips! Pretty phenomenal.

[harryjmic]

Wes Montgomery, nothing more to say other than the best jazz guitarist ever and possibly one of the best guitarist period. BTW he only used his thumb to pick notes.

[rh]

Another guy to check out if you are into fingerstyle jazz is Martin Taylor. Search for him on amazon and listen to some of his clips! Pretty phenomenal.

Thanks for the head's up. Is this the guy?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000IJCJ/qid=1137346429/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/102-2639039-0839323?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

His rendition 'My Foolish Heart' sounds particularly sensitive and great.

[jzucker]

and another is bruce dunlap. Incredible player. plays with fingerpicks though.

[rh]

and another is bruce dunlap. Incredible player. plays with fingerpicks though.

+1 !!!

[daddyo]

Fingerstyle and playing with your fingers as opposed to a pick can be two different things. When i hear the term fingerstyle, I think of fingers playing chords with counterpoint and alternating bass lines with multiple voices: Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Earl Klugh, Tommy Emmanuel (hybrid), classical cats. Many players also play more traditional electric and jazz lines using their fingers. Wes used only his thumb. Mark Knopfler and Derek Trucks also come to mind. There is a guy who's been playing since the 60s and switched to only fingers. Jazzy Bluesy fusion. Played with Page, Rod Stewart, Jan Hammer - Jeff, Jeff, Jeff something . . .

[rmj254]

I just don't know, but I'm not that impressed with Jeff Beck. I mean, he's interesting and all, but that constant whammy bar finagling and wiggling and he's just on my nerves. Wired, which that and Truth are about all I have heard, sounds like someone who is trying too hard to fit into the fusion scene. It just doesn't sound like he has the jazz chops to pull it off, plus Jan Hammer gets a lot of time on that record to solo, and IMHO he blows Jeff out of the water. Thanks for all of the replies guys!

[daddyo]

I just don't know, but I'm not that impressed with Jeff Beck. I mean, he's interesting and all, but that constant whammy bar finagling and wiggling and he's just on my nerves. Wired, which that and Truth are about all I have heard, sounds like someone who is trying too hard to fit into the fusion scene. It just doesn't sound like he has the jazz chops to pull it off, plus Jan Hammer gets a lot of time on that record to solo, and IMHO he blows Jeff out of the water. Thanks for all of the replies guys!

That cuts :D

[dkaplowitz]

It just doesn't sound like he has the jazz chops to pull it off...
I'd agree, but he's never been a jazzer. Fusion yes, but jazz? Nahh. I do think that he has phrasing chops fer dayz -- when he's on, which for me isn't all the time. But when he's on, I think he's as good and lyrical as anyone out there.

[rmj254]

Oh, well I was sort of talking about the fusion stuff he does where say, when Jan Hammer will be going mad with a keyboard solo, maybe doing some jazz lines and stuff, Jeff Beck just sort of plays this weird, pseudo-jazz sort of stuff that is really just irritating...just MHO. I do think he is a great blues-rock player, and was not meaning to assault anyone's opinion on the man. Thanks for offering your insight to the thread!

[neve1073]

Thanks for the head's up. Is this the guy?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000IJCJ/qid=1137346429/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/102-2639039-0839323?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

His rendition 'My Foolish Heart' sounds particularly sensitive and great.

Yep, that's him. Amazing player.

[rh]

Oh, well I was sort of talking about the fusion stuff he does where say, when Jan Hammer will be going mad with a keyboard solo, maybe doing some jazz lines and stuff, Jeff Beck just sort of plays this weird, pseudo-jazz sort of stuff that is really just irritating...just MHO. I do think he is a great blues-rock player, and was not meaning to assault anyone's opinion on the man. Thanks for offering your insight to the thread!

Hopefully, you won't pass on seeing Beck live some time. Taken on his own terms*, Jeff has an uncommon amount of control + "something" that doesn't always hit you unless you're seeing him do it.

That said, some nights are better than others. Only the mediocre are consistent.

*ie, try not to pre-condemn him for not being, say, Frank Gambale or George Benson.

[rmj254]

Yeah, I'm not really pre-condemning him... I'm just saying from what I've heard he is not that special in the jazz fusion realm. I certainly have nothing against the guy, nor am I saying that he can not play. He's really just not my bag. Blues, on the other hand, is something different. He is a master craftsman, to me, within that realm and I highly admire that work... Any more smokin' finger pickers? Also, would it be possible to do sweep picking with only the fingers, ala Frank Gambale?

[matte]

Also, would it be possible to do sweep picking with only the fingers, ala Frank Gambale?Yes. It is possible. I can do it. Splatt can do it.

[jzucker]

Also, would it be possible to do sweep picking with only the fingers, ala Frank Gambale?

Yes, lots of folks do that including Torn, Rodney Jones, Brett Garsed, Kevin Eubanks, etc.

I'm toying with it too. I've sold my SOS book to folks who are using the thumb for downstrokes and the middle or index finger for upstrokes on the sweep picking examples.

I'd love to ditch the pick altogether but it's a matter of emotionally giving up my chops for a while until the switchover is complete.

[jimfog]

I'd love to ditch the pick altogether but it's a matter of emotionally giving up my chops for a while until the switchover is complete.

+ many!!!

We should start a support group.

My big fear is, I do 3-5 solo acoustic guit/vocal gigs a week in bars, and I feel like I NEED the pick to generate energy and drive. I know it's mostly in my head, but a BIG hurdle to overcome.

Is Garsed an all finger player? Just discovered his "Big Sky" cd.....very nice.

-Jim

[mrp3118]

My first post here and this caught my eye. My influence was Lindsey Buckingham and he never uses a pick. Just watch The Dance DVD and you will see some magic. I on the other hand still use a pick with acoustic-- sort of a Hybrid technique. But on Electric, the power of 4 fingers prevails.

[rmj254]

Awesome! Matte could you (or anybody else for that matter) post some clips of sweep picking with only fingers? Thanks a bunch!

[uncletele]

I play fingerstyle; sometimes with a thumbpick and three fingerpicks, sometimes just fingers, sometime flatpick and four fingers. Solo is one thing; you can do whatever. With a full band it's tough to cut through and get enough volume and note definition with just fingers, even on electric guitar. If Mark Knopfler didn't have a good personal soundtech who knew his style and needs, he'd be screwed.

[jzucker]

I play fingerstyle; sometimes with a thumbpick and three fingerpicks, sometimes just fingers, sometime flatpick and four fingers. Solo is one thing; you can do whatever. With a full band it's tough to cut through and get enough volume and note definition with just fingers, even on electric guitar. If Mark Knopfler didn't have a good personal soundtech who knew his style and needs, he'd be screwed.

i disagree totally. I've switched to fingerstyle and don't have any problems with note definition. I think Allen Hinds and Kevin Eubanks might disagree as well. :)

[Swain]

I stopped using picks about 1989 or 1990. Every once in awhile, I think about using a pick. But, it passes quickly! LOL

I let my pick hand's index fingernail grow out just a little. I use it like a flat pick. But, I can easily switch between "flat-pick" and fingerstyle. I find a thicker, fuller tone with this technique. And I use a lot of fret-hand legato. This allows me to have a lot of options. Right at my fingertips. (Okay, bad pun! But, I'm kinda loopy anyway.)

If I were to start over, I may adopt a Hybrid pick and fingers style. I don't know. One type of pick I've found to sound very similer to my fingers-and-fingernail tones, are the picks made from horns or hoofs. I can't remember exactly which. They're about $2.00 apiece. But, I do keep a couple around. Never really use them. If I were going to use a pick, these would probably be the ones.

Anyway, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses to this topic. I'll keep watching, to see what everyone has to offer on this subject.