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View Full Version : Why shouldn't I get a Hot Cat 30R


mc_deli
05-07-2013, 09:10 AM
I've had a Fender Super 60 (red knob) for 20 years. Never found use for the clean channel. Always just used a bluesy (no presence, drive on 3-3.5) setting on the gain channel. I wanted a new 2 channel amp with a usable clean channel. I got a Supersonic 22. But it has had to go back because of various faults.

I don't think I can face dealing with another amp from the Supersonic range in case I have to send it back. I have already lost two months in amp ping pong.

I know it is double the money. But I haven't bought an amp in 20 years. The Hot Cat ticks all the boxes. I have mix of HB and SC guitars and 1x12 and reverb built-in. The idea of the built-in solo boost is nice too. And I love cats.

Why shouldn't I get a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30R?

TheoDog
05-07-2013, 09:14 AM
If the money is available, there is never a reason to not get a Bad Cat. Unless there is a matchless available.

berardi
05-07-2013, 09:48 AM
Because you may want a Black cat and still don't know it.

gls500
05-07-2013, 10:18 AM
I've got nothing. Get it!

SirGilmour
05-07-2013, 11:06 AM
That may be their finest amp. You should get it for sure. It will be the last amp you buy for at least another 20 years at least. Lifetime warranty and 30 day return policy makes it a no brainer. I am a huge bad cat fan boy because their amps are incredible and their customer service is the best. I wouldn't buy a matchless over a bad cat for the service alone not to mention the Matchless is $4000 for literally almost the same amp!!!! You get more for your money from bad cat. Finest amps around IMO

pjrhd28
05-07-2013, 11:08 AM
If the money is available, there is never a reason to not get a Bad Cat. Unless there is a matchless available.


Smart guy.

SirGilmour
05-07-2013, 11:10 AM
If the money is available, there is never a reason to not get a Matchless. Unless there is a Bad Cat available.

Fixed. ;)

Outlier
05-07-2013, 11:11 AM
Don't rule out the Black Cat. I had similar needs to yours and ended up ordering the Black Cat 15R after much research and discussion with John at Bad Cat. Great people to deal with and fantastic amps. What is there to lose???

sleeperaxe
05-07-2013, 11:17 AM
Here's what you get when you buy a new Bad Cat:

1) An amazing amp
2) A lifetime warranty
3) A relationship with a company whose president will personally respond via PM, email, or phone call to your concerns. I have never gotten better customer service from any company, ever.

Don't hesitate. Buy it. And don't listen to everybody saying "but this one is good too!" Of course they're good. But you know what you like. So go get it.

SirGilmour
05-07-2013, 11:23 AM
Here's what you get when you buy a new Bad Cat:

1) An amazing amp
2) A lifetime warranty
3) A relationship with a company whose president will personally respond via PM, email, or phone call to your concerns. I have never gotten better customer service from any company, ever.

Don't hesitate. Buy it. And don't listen to everybody saying "but this one is good too!" Of course they're good. But you know what you like. So go get it.

This is basically what I was trying to say.

Footbutt
05-07-2013, 11:24 AM
just get it! i'm sure you won't be let down!

i was considering the Hot Cat 15R head, but i decided to go with the Black Cat 15R. my high-gain needs tend to shift too much to think i'd be set for life with one sound. (even though the Hot Cat is AWESOME.)

i've actually heard a few people buy a Hot Cat and almost play exclusively on the "clean" side of the amp... because it sounds so good!

good luck!

Pablomago
05-07-2013, 01:51 PM
Bonnie Raitt seems to like her's. They sure sound good.

mc_deli
05-07-2013, 02:12 PM
I am not in the US so I would get a lifetime relationship with an amp - but I very much appreciate the overwhelming sentiment of the comments.

Time for a serious trial

joeprs
05-07-2013, 04:10 PM
Bad Cat is built like a tank. There may be other products as good, but I don't think there are many, if any, that are better.

I sold 3 combos and 1 head to help finance my Cub IIR and I have no regrets. I thought I needed more power, but 15 watts, class A power is plenty for me. This is the best sounding amp I own. I play it clean, mostly, with a pedal in front (I am shopping for a pedal and am leaning toward a Bad Cat pedal), but I do enjoy driving the amp when I don't need to switch from clean to dirty.

I'm still playing around, tweaking, etc., and I have found some tones I prefer over others, but to be honest, there isn't a bad sound in this amp. I've only had it a month, so I don't know if the speaker is even broken in yet. Yes, I'm probably still in the honeymoon phase, but I think I will always be. I like it that much!

rusty a.
05-07-2013, 05:24 PM
I know it is double the money. But I haven't bought an amp in 20 years. The Hot Cat ticks all the boxes. I have mix of HB and SC guitars and 1x12 and reverb built-in. The idea of the built-in solo boost is nice too. And I love cats.

Why shouldn't I get a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30R?

it's STILL on my short list of "maybe someday" gear lusts...sounds like you deserve it and it fits the bill! BUT if it makes you feel better, buy two and i'll send you my address and some $$ to cover shipping...hahahaha

davros
05-07-2013, 06:22 PM
No reason at all - unless a 15 watter is loud enough for you.

The Black Cats are excellent amps IMO.

D

xdavidandrewx
05-07-2013, 11:24 PM
Because you may want a Black cat and still don't know it.


I completely agree. I would call John and talk to him about what you are looking for before you make your mind up. I am a cub fan but i truly love the Fat cat and the Black cat as well.

xdavidandrewx
05-07-2013, 11:30 PM
Yes, I'm probably still in the honeymoon phase, but I think I will always be. I like it that much!

There is no honey moon stage with the cub IIR! I've had my Cub 30R for 6 months and I am still amazed how good it sounds especially when I get it on stage :)

joeprs
05-07-2013, 11:36 PM
Yes, I'm probably still in the honeymoon phase, but I think I will always be. I like it that much!

There is no honey moon stage with the cub IIR! I've had my Cub 30R for 6 months and I am still amazed how good it sounds especially when I get it on stage :)

:aok:rockin

I'll never forget the look on my bass player and other guitar player's faces when they first heard my Cub IIR, their jaws just dropped and their eyes opened wide in amazement! That's when I knew I made the right choice for sure, hearing the amp with the other instruments playing along.

axelfoley
05-08-2013, 06:34 AM
I would research all the models before settling on the hc30r. It is a great sounding amp but it is not a bedroom amp. The volume comes on pretty fast, especially on the clean channel.
Dont get me wrong the tone is amazing. It just wouldn't be my first choice unless I was using it to gig regularly. Some of the other models are a lot more volume friendly and in my experience with these amps it's better to find one that has the clean tone and medium grind that you like and then goose the front end with dirt to get where you want to go. This also allows you to keep all of your "effects loop" pedals out front which makes everything easier.

vds5000
05-08-2013, 06:49 AM
I've owned one. Great cleans, great high-gain, but I found the mid-gain tones lacking. Don't get me wrong - it's a great (and very well built) amp, but not sure if the HotCat 30R is the best choice for "bluesy" tones.

Pros:
- very well built
- very nice cleans
- very rich high-gain tones

Cons:
- Gain channel sounds 'fizzy' if not played relatively loud
- Very heavy
- Lacking in mid-gain (i.e. bluesy) tones
- Reverb a little weak compared to Fender

bbutler123
05-08-2013, 08:11 AM
I've had a Fender Super 60 (red knob) for 20 years. Never found use for the clean channel. Always just used a bluesy (no presence, drive on 3-3.5) setting on the gain channel. I wanted a new 2 channel amp with a usable clean channel. I got a Supersonic 22. But it has had to go back because of various faults.

I don't think I can face dealing with another amp from the Supersonic range in case I have to send it back. I have already lost two months in amp ping pong.

I know it is double the money. But I haven't bought an amp in 20 years. The Hot Cat ticks all the boxes. I have mix of HB and SC guitars and 1x12 and reverb built-in. The idea of the built-in solo boost is nice too. And I love cats.

Why shouldn't I get a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30R?
It sounds like you have the exact model that you want, in mind. With that good of an attitude toward it, and if you can afford it, maybe you SHOULD buy it.

Starting out with a great attitude toward the amp, plus the fact that I'm pretty sure that any Bad Cat would be fantastic! is a pretty safe bet all told, I'm thinking.

joeprs
05-08-2013, 02:45 PM
Before I bought my Cub IIR, I was considering a Carr Impala. Reading threads on TGP fueled my GAS.

When I communicated what I was playing, etc. to my sales guy, he thought the Impala would be too loud. He only had a Bloke to try, which sounded great, but not for me.

I played a Valvetrain, which I liked, but it was too similar to my SS22, although it is a much better built product.

When I played the Cub, I knew immediately it was the amp for me. At 15 watts, in my jam studio, it is plenty loud. Even on the 7 watt setting it can be too loud. My sales guy knew what he was talking about.

I agree with the above posts, definitely consider Bad Cat, I don't think you can go wrong, but choose the model and power carefully. Make sure you get what works for you.

I feel, for my situation, the Cub, SS22 and 2 Channel C give me enough variety. I would be comfortable gigging any of them or maybe even two of them, depending on the situation.

mc_deli
05-08-2013, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the encouragement.

I have done a little research and not enough playing and I need to play the HC30R, Black Cat30R, Panther and CubII.

I must have the bluesy tones. The more I look at this the Black Cat 30R is the one I can't escape. And I have two black cats. Much easier to "sell" "in-house" ;)

Of course the Black Cat 30R is the only one not in my local store :(

Gearopenia
05-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Probably no reason. But try an Independence. Heard that they are better.
I have one, and its special. But I don't know the hot cat.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 09:28 PM
If the money is available, there is never a reason to not get a Bad Cat. Unless there is a matchless available.

This. I like badcat (own a cub ii) but would put my $ on a Matchless any day.

SirGilmour
05-08-2013, 10:44 PM
This. I like badcat (own a cub ii) but would put my $ on a Matchless any day.

Why? You could spend $4500 on a lightning and a spitfire ORRRRRRR you could buy a Cub II that has both amps in one for less than $2000(which you have done). There is nothing better about matchless IMO. They are constructed in an almost identical manner except the BC has MASSIVE transformers and the BC celestion is awesome. I don't see what the extra cost for the Matchless is about unless its just preference.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 11:16 PM
Here's what you get when you buy a new Bad Cat:

1) An amazing amp
2) A lifetime warranty
3) A relationship with a company whose president will personally respond via PM, email, or phone call to your concerns. I have never gotten better customer service from any company, ever.

Don't hesitate. Buy it. And don't listen to everybody saying "but this one is good too!" Of course they're good. But you know what you like. So go get it.

You get that with most small builders on TGP. I applaud BadCats recent efforts to get on the customer service train, but they are hardley the only ones riding.

SirGilmour
05-08-2013, 11:21 PM
You get that with most small builders on TGP. I applaud BadCats recent efforts to get on the customer service train, but they are hardley the only ones riding.

Who said they were the only ones riding? Saying how great their service is doesn't negate how great others service is.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 11:25 PM
Why? You could spend $4500 on a lightning and a spitfire ORRRRRRR you could buy a Cub II that has both amps in one for less than $2000(which you have done). There is nothing better about matchless IMO. They are constructed in an almost identical manner except the BC has MASSIVE transformers and the BC celestion is awesome. I don't see what the extra cost for the Matchless is about unless its just preference.

Isn't everything "just preference". Last time I checked transformer size isn't indicative of great tone. Matchless transformers are just as large btw. Also prices are pretty much even for similar models across the board. The cub II is not a lightning and spitfire in one amp and if it was wouldn't that be a complete lack of design creativity and originality on the part of BadCat to take the competitor you are most closely associated with and rehash their designs(I.e. the blackcat/C30). Its a different amp all together and one that honestly doesn't get much play time next to my matchless and morgan. If you're going to fanboy for a company that's cool, but throwing arbitrary things like transformer size=tone and incorrect pricing for models diminishes your argument and credibility.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 11:26 PM
Who said they were the only ones riding? Saying how great their service is doesn't negate how great others service is.

This is a fair point.

rhythmrocker
05-08-2013, 11:31 PM
There are so many Bad Cat models - go play some if you can. 6v6? el34? etc.
I'm partial to liking the 6v6 and would look at a Panther.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 11:36 PM
There are so many Bad Cat models - go play some if you can. 6v6? el34? etc.
I'm partial to liking the 6v6 and would look at a Panther.

I've played a panther and can concur that it is a totally unique and cool amp.

SirGilmour
05-08-2013, 11:40 PM
Isn't everything "just preference". Last time I checked transformer size isn't indicative of great tone. Matchless transformers are just as large btw. Also prices are pretty much even for similar models across the board. The cub II is not a lightning and spitfire in one amp and if it was wouldn't that be a complete lack of design creativity and originality on the part of BadCat to take the competitor you are most closely associated with and rehash their designs(I.e. the blackcat/C30). Its a different amp all together and one that honestly doesn't get much play time next to my matchless and morgan. If you're going to fanboy for a company that's cool, but throwing arbitrary things like transformer size=tone and incorrect pricing for models diminishes your argument and credibility.

You do realize that Marc Sampson designed the early amps for both companies right? The Cub II IS essentially a lightning and spitfire in one. Bad Cat didn't steal anything because Marc Sampson worked for them when they started after he left Matchless. According to Matchless site the C30 is like $3500. Bad Cat doesn't charge anywhere near that for any amp. I wasn't saying because the trannies are big means its better BTW.

SirGilmour
05-08-2013, 11:42 PM
I'm not trying to start an e fight. I just don't get get the "pay extra for a matchless" point when the amps are very similar in design and construction.

TRS1
05-08-2013, 11:46 PM
You do realize that Marc Sampson designed the early amps for both companies right? The Cub II IS essentially a lightning and spitfire in one. Bad Cat didn't steal anything because Marc Sampson worked for them when they started after he left Matchless. According to Matchless site the C30 is like $4200. Bad Cat doesn't charge anywhere near that for any amp. I wasn't saying because the trannies are big means its better BTW.

Well aware of the history. Cub ii and lightning share tubes and a voxish pedigree, that's about it. I own them both and simply have a preference for one over the other for that type of sound Also there is a large difference between msrp and street price. My HC30 was 2650 brand new just last year the BC30 goes for 2300. That's the same price range.

SirGilmour
05-08-2013, 11:51 PM
Well aware of the history. Cub ii and lightning share tubes and a voxish pedigree, that's about it. I own them both and simply have a preference for one over the other for that type of sound Also there is a large difference between msrp and street price. My HC30 was 2650 brand new just last year the BC30 goes for 2300. That's the same price range.

I hear ya. I am definitely a fan boy of BC. Obviously there is no best amp. Only what's best for you. Sorry for the derailment OP!

TK LP
05-09-2013, 05:35 AM
Well aware of the history. Cub ii and lightning share tubes and a voxish pedigree, that's about it. I own them both and simply have a preference for one over the other for that type of sound Also there is a large difference between msrp and street price. My HC30 was 2650 brand new just last year the BC30 goes for 2300. That's the same price range.

Comparing apples to apples, a new, current version of a Bad Cat Black Cat is $2299.00 direct from Bad Cat. The lowest I'm able to find the current channel switching Matchless C-30 from an authorized dealer is $3000.00. Whatever discount an authorized dealer can give on a Matchless, they can do on a Bad Cat. I paid less than $2000.00 for my, hopefully soon to be delivered Hot Cat 30R head, with a 15% internet discount from an authorized dealer, and they are priced the same as a Black Cat direct from Bad Cat. The same dealer was offering the same discount on Matchless, so they could have beat your price by $100.00, but that still leaves a $550.00 disparity. They are both premium brands, but the pricing on the Matchless amps is significantly higher, for what are very similar amps.

vds5000
05-09-2013, 06:46 AM
... but the pricing on the Matchless amps is significantly higher, for what are very similar amps.

The resale is also significantly higher for Matchless. For instance, I have seen BlackCat combos for as low as $1400 on the used market. I have only seen a DC30 for under $2k twice on the used market (I actually bought one for $1899).

TK LP
05-09-2013, 07:16 AM
[QUOTE=vds5000;15484402]The resale is also significantly higher for Matchless. For instance, I have seen BlackCat combos for as low as $1400 on the used market. I have only seen a DC30 for under $2k twice on the used market (I actually bought one for $1899).


If you could get a comparable Black Cat 2x12 for 1400.00 that would be a great deal. I haven't seen any go that low. That's about where I see used Cub's. Personally, I wouldn't want any of these in a 2x12, too heavy. I paid 1500 for my mint Lightning Reveb, You can always find deals out there. If you buy an amp for $500.00 more, and sell it for $500.00 more, did it resell better, or just more? If a $3700.00 amp sells used for $1899.00, is that good resale?

grizdeluxe
05-09-2013, 07:25 AM
I've owned one. Great cleans, great high-gain, but I found the mid-gain tones lacking. Don't get me wrong - it's a great (and very well built) amp, but not sure if the HotCat 30R is the best choice for "bluesy" tones.

Pros:
- very well built
- very nice cleans
- very rich high-gain tones

Cons:
- Gain channel sounds 'fizzy' if not played relatively loud
- Very heavy
- Lacking in mid-gain (i.e. bluesy) tones
- Reverb a little weak compared to Fender




See for me this is where the term "bluesy" is meaningless. Bluesy to me is a mid scooped fender on the verge of breakup.

SirGilmour
05-09-2013, 11:11 AM
See for me this is where the term "bluesy" is meaningless. Bluesy to me is a mid scooped fender on the verge of breakup.

It depends on who's playing those blues! LOL.

vds5000
05-09-2013, 02:35 PM
[QUOTE=vds5000;15484402]The resale is also significantly higher for Matchless. For instance, I have seen BlackCat combos for as low as $1400 on the used market. I have only seen a DC30 for under $2k twice on the used market (I actually bought one for $1899).


If you could get a comparable Black Cat 2x12 for 1400.00 that would be a great deal. I haven't seen any go that low. That's about where I see used Cub's. Personally, I wouldn't want any of these in a 2x12, too heavy. I paid 1500 for my mint Lightning Reveb, You can always find deals out there. If you buy an amp for $500.00 more, and sell it for $500.00 more, did it resell better, or just more? If a $3700.00 amp sells used for $1899.00, is that good resale?

Oh, I agree - $1400 is a great price on a used BlackCat 2x12 and yes, I've seen it (actually 2x). Plus, it's not like they sold within minutes.

Keep in mind, that DC30 I bought for $1899 probably didn't cost the original owner $3700. I believe the one I owned was from the early 2000's.


See for me this is where the term "bluesy" is meaningless. Bluesy to me is a mid scooped fender on the verge of breakup.

'Bluesy' was something I quoted from the OP. When I think 'Bluesy', I think anything from low gain (not pristine) to med gain. The HotCat 30R does not excell in that territory.

jbt7764
05-09-2013, 11:03 PM
"Bluesy' was something I quoted from the OP. When I think 'Bluesy', I think anything from low gain (not pristine) to med gain. The HotCat 30R does not excell in that territory."


humbly begging to differ. I would say try one of the new ones with the master on channel one that you can engage. Bluesy all day. So bluesy I get sad just thinking about it.

John

motokev
05-10-2013, 12:55 AM
I had the opportunity to get one (a 2x12) for $1K. I didn't like it, not my thing.
I thought about buying and flipping, but just didn't want to bother.

vds5000
05-10-2013, 08:57 AM
"Bluesy' was something I quoted from the OP. When I think 'Bluesy', I think anything from low gain (not pristine) to med gain. The HotCat 30R does not excell in that territory."


humbly begging to differ. I would say try one of the new ones with the master on channel one that you can engage. Bluesy all day. So bluesy I get sad just thinking about it.

John

I can't argue with you because I have not tried one of the newer HotCat 30R's.

DCAddy
05-10-2013, 09:25 AM
No reason at all - unless a 15 watter is loud enough for you.

The Black Cats are excellent amps IMO.

D
Quoted for truth.
I had the option to buy a Hot Cat 30R or Hot Cat 15-no reverb. Though it was a little more pricey, I chose the latter. Both were used and in fine condition-the 15 had been loaded with a Celestion Blue. I picked it because:
1-I love EL84s for chime, high gain, and (yes)bottom end.
2-I use some delay but rarely reverb.
3-The Blue is the greatest speaker ever.
4-The clean channel was superior.
5-The high gain channel is perfect for low level practice-sounds like a cranked tube amp, in fact.
When I play out I just use the clean channel--clean to crank--in a non master volume manner. It cuts through the mix like a beast and has SERIOUS power. Don't let the 15 watts fool you. It has demolished a Marshall 18 watter, a Budda 20(?) watter, and a Retro King Marshall clone without breaking a sweat. At this point, the only other model I'd choose would be a Trem Cat.
I've put some serious miles on the Hot cat since '05 and have yet to have a problem. Great amps--built to last.

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w499/dcaddy250/badcat003_zps40517660.jpg

Tone Disciple
05-11-2013, 08:26 AM
Because - PM sent.

ArchtopAnimal
05-12-2013, 02:21 AM
The resale is also significantly higher for Matchless.. This is also very true in Australia.

ArchtopAnimal
05-12-2013, 02:25 AM
Don't let the 15 watts fool you.

This is very true , but more due to the mid and upper mid range that they have.
My Matchless is crazy loud ( especially compared to the Rivera ) , but it measures a very similar wattage on the 'scope screen though.

sickboy79
05-16-2013, 07:51 AM
I've owned a Hot Cat 30R head for about 5 years. One of my favorite amps out there. Fantastic cleans to classic rock tones on the clean channel, and an amazing drive channel. Super interactive tone controls on the drive channel as well. I can't say enough good things about this amp. Highly recommended.