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Kenny Blue
10-19-2013, 11:28 AM
I have read a number of threads which refer to a "Wet /Dry /Wet amp set-up.

What exactly is this ? I assume one needs 3 amps to do this ?

thanks...

Rocket Brother
10-19-2013, 11:45 AM
It's a rig/system with your dry "base" sound (ie. without time-based or modulation effects) played through the center speaker or monitor, with your stereo effects played through a set of left and right speakers or monitors and monitors - hence wet (left)-dry (center)-wet (right)

Kenny Blue
10-19-2013, 12:12 PM
Anyone who is playing with this kind of set up... How exactly are you doing it (Meaning are you using, for example one main amp as your dry and a stereo delay pedal with the dry signal to the main amp and the wet signal then split to the two peripheral amps ) ?

And what amps and other components (pedals, etc) are you using ?

peterdjp
10-19-2013, 12:30 PM
The standard W/D/W setup looks like this.

Dry center amp with FX send from after the power amp with something like a Suhr ISO out or attenuator for line level out>stereo FX>stereo power amp>two wet cabs L-R often 1x12" sometimes two powered monitors or two combo amps are used instead of the stereo power amp.

http://hothousestudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WetDryWetRig.jpg

The FX are run 100% wet and the dry guitar/wet FX are mixed in the air in the room.

In my case I used a Bludotone D style amp for the dry center with a 2x12 cab then out to an FX rack with stereo delay, reverb and modulation then to a carvin stereo tube power amp then to two 2x12 cabs left and right for the wet FX.

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/peterdjp/IMG_1594_zps9716b6f7.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/peterdjp/media/IMG_1594_zps9716b6f7.jpg.html)

Sounds great, both the amp and the FX sound their best. It's big and full and wide. Effects like chorus sound really spatial, lush and organic but it's a lot of gear and can be a PITA. Hard to maintain consistency at live gigs without your own mixer or fulltime sound man. You need three mics and have to balance the volume of the wet/dry mix.

I did it and ended up going with a stereo setup with two amps both run wet using a line mixer to maintain the dry tone.
Here is an example of a stereo W/W setup with two tube amps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUMo0IOmyvA


it's common to do a w/d/w with amps that do not have FX loops like vintage Plexi's. Guys like EVH and Brian May ran W/D/W
One big reason for this type of setup with modern amps is to maintain the true tone/feel of the dry amp but still have full stereo FX. Even with a good FX loop it sounds different with the both the amp tone and FX coming through the same speakers. You get more clarity with seperate cabs for the dry amp and FX.



Some guys just do W/D with the main dry amp feeding FX that are routed to a second smaller amp run 100% wet for FX only. In this case the FX are mono but because of the two cabs and mixing of dry tone and wet effects in the room the sound is still very big.

For example a dry Germino amp>attenuator>delay/reverb pedal>small combo amp for wet fx.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/maz_master/GerminoRigWetDry.jpg


Jimmy Herring runs his w/d/w rig with a vintage fender for the dry and a single 4x12 stereo cab for wet. Jump to 18:45 for a setup description. He uses a SS power amp for his wet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkoPZY_fD0c

http://miraverse.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/jimmyherring2.jpg



Here's how Larry Carlton does it. In his case he actually mics the dry amp and sends that feed to a mixer with his FX like you would do in the studio, then out to two powered monitors onstage and to FOH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmzucDK9Pfo

http://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/2085/2085368f5a93a584218f4ee9af942e5da1ad29b.jpg

...and that concludes todays lesson on w/d/w rigs.

bob-i
10-19-2013, 01:31 PM
Andy Fuchs had a wet/dry/wet rig at an amp show a few years ago. He used a 20watt stereo SS amp to drive 2 1x12s and the main amp headache 2 x 12. It sounded huge with just a simple stereo reverb.

You can get a small stereo amp at places like amazon for $20-30. I have a Pyle 30/30 power amp and some old stereo speakers at home that just sound fantastic with nothing but an old alesis quadraverb I bought for $35 off craigslist.

I'd love to use a WDW rig live but most of the venues I play simply don't have space for 3 cabs, plus I already haul too much gear.

Great herring interview, he seems so down to earth.

Lono
10-19-2013, 01:33 PM
If you wanted to just run a W/D setup could you run the line level out from an attenuator into the front end of a seperate amp or do you need to use a seperate power amp?

Also, can you use an A/B/Y box to split your signal and run one dry amd and one wet amp?

I've always been a litte confused about the best way to do this.

Thanks for the help!

GasMask
10-19-2013, 02:56 PM
In my case I used a Bludotone D style amp for the dry center with a 2x12 cab then out to an FX rack with stereo delay, reverb and modulation then to a carvin stereo tube power amp then to two 2x12 cabs left and right for the wet FX.


Nice Rig! How are you using the Loop-a-Lator in this set-up? I've seen some stereo "D-lator" type units. Brandon's are typically mono I think.

peterdjp
10-19-2013, 03:23 PM
Nice Rig! How are you using the Loop-a-Lator in this set-up? I've seen some stereo "D-lator" type units. Brandon's are typically mono I think.

Thanks. Brandons is mono. I tried a stereo glaswerks loop recentley but it was not any better for my application.

I'm running a stereo W/W setup now with a line mixer not W/D/W. The Bludo amp needs the loop a lator. The other side of the stereo FX goes to the effects return of a second tube amp that does not benefit from a lator device.

When I did do the W/D/W with the Bludo I did not need the lator at all because you are not using the FX loop but I ran it anyway jumpered with a patch cord just for the tone.

GasMask
10-19-2013, 03:44 PM
Thanks. Brandons is mono. I tried a stereo glaswerks loop recentley but it was not any better for my application.

I'm running a stereo W/W setup now with a line mixer not W/D/W. The Bludo amp needs the loop a lator. The other side of the stereo FX goes to the effects return of a second tube amp that does not benefit from a lator device.

When I did do the W/D/W with the Bludo you do not need the lator at all because you are not using the FX loop but I run it anyway jumpered with a patch cord just for the tone.

Thanks for the info! I'm in the queue for a Bludo myself- just hoping I live long enough to make it to the front of a very long line! Been thinking a lot about how best to do a stereo rig with it. Was wondering if I should use a stereo D-lator- even considered the Glaswerks you mentioned. Brandon might do a stereo unit for all I know. There are lots of ways to approach it, as you know. I've got an old Roland M-120 line mixer that's been gathering dust for years, so I might experiment with that too.

Your Bludo clips on Soundcloud are great BTW!!! Awesome tone.

peterdjp
10-19-2013, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the info! I'm in the queue for a Bludo myself- just hoping I live long enough to make it to the front of a very long line! Been thinking a lot about how best to do a stereo rig with it. Was wondering if I should use a stereo D-lator- even considered the Glaswerks you mentioned. Brandon might do a stereo unit for all I know. There are lots of ways to approach it, as you know. I've got an old Roland M-120 line mixer that's been gathering dust for years, so I might experiment with that too.

Your Bludo clips on Soundcloud are great BTW!!! Awesome tone.


Thanks. I just got the Roland M120 and it works great! The TC2290 has full analog dry and does not need the mixer but I had been running the Lexicon in series and it sounded good but now with the mixer running parallel 100% wet and no A/D conversion it sounds even better. I was looking into a Bradshaw mixer but read a few reviews of the M120 being pretty good for a guitar rig so I grabbed one. I am happy with it. The Bludo is sounding better than ever.

If you run the other side of your stereo FX into the FX return of a second amp bypassing the preamp that second amp then becomes a slave to the first so you get the full OD tone from the bludo out of both amps. It sounds fantastic.

Congrats on the Bludo! What are you going to get?

Here is a newer clip of the Bludo using the M120. It's a demo of a uni vibe but when the screen is blue it's only the Bludo. Just phone audio/video but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LWa9mPSpE&feature=c4-overview&list=UU1dVoA-2r1KAx0z9csM1a3A

Kenny Blue
10-19-2013, 04:03 PM
If you wanted to just run a W/D setup could you run the line level out from an attenuator into the front end of a seperate amp or do you need to use a seperate power amp?

Also, can you use an A/B/Y box to split your signal and run one dry amd and one wet amp?

I've always been a litte confused about the best way to do this.

Thanks for the help!

Yes... I have that question too ...

For example... I have an Empress Chrono Delay and a Stereo Wet Reverb pedal. If I also have a second guitar amp can I just use two guitar amps for a W/D setup. And which would be the best way to do that ?

One way to split the signal is to leave these pedals in my "before the amp" signal chain and send the Dry signal from the Stereo Wet Pedal to one Guitar Amp and the Wet signal from the Stereo Wet Pedal to the other Guitar Amp.

Or... use an attenuator with the first Guitar Amp, with a line out to the Empress Delay, then to the Stereo Wet Pedal and to the second Guitar Amp ?
Or would that work because in this case the signal coming from the line out of the attenuator is too low to go through the pedals and into a second Guitar Amp ?

peterdjp
10-19-2013, 04:21 PM
Yes... I have that question too ...

For example... I have an Empress Chrono Delay and a Stereo Wet Reverb pedal. If I also have a second guitar amp can I just use two guitar amps for a W/D setup. And which would be the best way to do that ?

One way to split the signal is to leave these pedals in my "before the amp" signal chain and send the Dry signal from the Stereo Wet Pedal to one Guitar Amp and the Wet signal from the Stereo Wet Pedal to the other Guitar Amp.

Or... use an attenuator with the first Guitar Amp, with a line out to the Empress Delay, then to the Stereo Wet Pedal and to the second Guitar Amp ?
Or would that work because in this case the signal coming from the line out of the attenuator is too low to go through the pedals and into a second Guitar Amp ?


I think you can do it either way. The benefit of using the attenuator is you get the full tone of the overdrive of the first amp. This would be ideal if you were going into a SS amp for the wet. Also if you are using OD tone from amp one when you take the signal from after the power amp you get that same OD sound from amp 2 also.

If both amps are good quality tube amps run clean or just dirt from pedals then splitting the signal, using an A/B/Y should be fine.

Or would that work because in this case the signal coming from the line out of the attenuator is too low to go through the pedals and into a second Guitar Amp ?

Not sure about that. If anything I would think the signal may be too hot for the pedal. You would have to test it.

If both amps are clean you can just split the signal after the pedals, before the amps and run them stereo wet/wet which sounds great as well.

GasMask
10-19-2013, 04:41 PM
If you run the other side of your stereo FX into the FX return of a second amp bypassing the preamp that second amp then becomes a slave to the first so you get the full OD tone from the bludo out of both amps. It sounds fantastic.

Congrats on the Bludo! What are you going to get?



That's what I'm leaning toward now. I've got a Classic Reverb, and I can just send one side of the stereo effects return into the power amp section of it. Not sure how much (if anything) I would be giving up by not having that half of the signal go through a D-lator though.

The voicing to get from Bludo is a very good question! (Bludo-Drive for sure) Some of the Ojai clips sound fantastic (and I'm not even into RF). Sometimes I think I might like just an ever-so-slightly edgier sound, but the risk is losing that unique "D" tone if it's taken too far. Some amps have that instantly recognizable sound, and some just don't. I've got a good idea in my head of the tone I'm looking for, but not sure what voicing that would be. Got about a year to learn and decide. That clip you just linked sounds nice- more gain than a lot of the Ojai clips out there.

helrazr84
10-19-2013, 04:52 PM
I tried a W/D/W thing with just 2 heads and 2 4x12s.

4x12s were both stereo, split vertically. So I ran one head dry into half of each cab and the other head (wet) into the outer half of each cab.

I only ran it like that maybe 2 or 3 gigs. Mainly just cause I liked how it sounded to me on stage, even tho it was panned in stereo thru the PA.

peterdjp
10-19-2013, 04:53 PM
That clip you just linked sounds nice- more gain than a lot of the Ojai clips out there.

The Ojai has a ton of gain it can get pretty aggressive. With a boost in front it gets into metal. Most guys clips, mine included the gain is set pretty low. On that last clip it was at 3.5
If you turn it up to 7 it's pretty rockin. The bludo stays tighter in the low end than other D styles also which is nice for higher gain stuff.

If your second amp is a D style also then yes stereo D lator would be best.

SonicBoom
10-19-2013, 07:49 PM
I'm using two BF Fenders for wet driven by an amp switcher into a pedal switching system for my effects. The dry is from the amp switcher straight into my Marshall SL and 50 watter. BIG sound!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n_-OsvTXwno/T7ADfBqSG5I/AAAAAAAAAK4/NxuYAXd8CCY/s720/Guitar%2520Rig.JPG

Kenny Blue
10-20-2013, 10:23 AM
Thanks for all the info !

Leonc
10-20-2013, 10:50 AM
My philosophy was to keep it portable and simple...but sounding big. I use an H&K Redbox to produce a line level signal off my speaker output--so I'm getting the complete output signal from the guitar amp, less the speaker.

The line level signal feeds my analog Boss SE-70 stereo effects processor, which has some excellent reverbs, delays, choruses, etc. The stereo signal from the SE-70 goes to a Stewart PA100B SS power amp, for clean reproduction of the guitar amp sound. The SE-70 and PA100B are 1/2 rack unit, i.e., quite small.

I built two small, ported 1x10 cabs from 3/8" birch and load them with Eminence Lil Buddies, i.e., guitar speakers, for reproducing the wet sound from the guitar amp output.

I use an Axess MFC5 MIDI foot controller to change patches on the SE-70.

Because I'm tapping the signal off the speaker output, I can use this setup with any amp. No effects loop needed!

The entire stereo wet rig gets strapped up and can be carried with one hand.

http://www.chalnick.org/LeonsGear/WetRig/WetRig_1.JPG
http://www.chalnick.org/LeonsGear/WetRig/WetRigReadyToGo.JPG

Demos:
CIwVKLR8mxs
S0JXldW5brk

peterdjp
10-20-2013, 11:58 AM
My philosophy was to keep it portable and simple...but sounding big.

That's an awesome rig! I have used the redbox with good results as well and I have the MFC5 midi foot controller. Small but powerful. The SE70 is a nice piece also. I believe Scott Henderson uses one with his main rig. Nice job, a w/d/w that you can carry with one hand. Looks great!

You can really hear the tone of those amps in your clips which is the real selling point of w/d/w for me. If you were running FX in front of or in the amps loops I don't think the tone would be as good.



Here's a clip from my w/d/w setup with the redbox.

KYAm9EOUND8