NOS Tubes

[rockon1]

So Im looking at various NOS 12AX7 pre amp tubes and it seems that all the prized stuff is made in countries other thasn the USA.Seems you can get RCA,GE, Sylvania 12ax7 tubes NOS NIB relatively cheaply. On the other hand NOS Telefunkens,Mullards ect seem to be WAY more expensive and sought after. Just wondering if there are any highly prized American 12AX7 NOS tubes?

[brad347]

a few points

1. why does this matter?
2. blackplate RCA 6V6s and 6L6s are among the most, if not THE most prized tubes of their type for guitar amps.
3. In my personal opinion, Sylvania and GE power tubes are okay, but nothing special as compared to other NOS tubes.
4. There are plenty of prized American NOS tubes, but for certain types and applications the european tubes are (arguably) much better. Mullard (great britain) makes my favorite 12AX7 for fender amps, for example, and Telefunken (w. germany) made great tubes for hi fi audio.
5. Sometimes it has to do with "history" of the amp design as far as what our ears want to hear. Lots of people like Mullards/british tubes in Marshalls as those were british amps that had those tubes to begin with, so the amp was designed and tested probably with them and "that" sound from the classic recordings is usually that particular tube. Same thing for the RCAs in Fender amps where they were OEM.

[rockon1]

a few points

1. why does this matter?
2. blackplate RCA 6V6s and 6L6s are among the most, if not THE most prized tubes of their type for guitar amps.
3. In my personal opinion, Sylvania and GE power tubes are okay, but nothing special as compared to other NOS tubes.
4. There are plenty of prized American NOS tubes, but for certain types and applications the european tubes are (arguably) much better. Mullard (great britain) makes my favorite 12AX7 for fender amps, for example, and Telefunken (w. germany) made great tubes for hi fi audio.
5. Sometimes it has to do with "history" of the amp design as far as what our ears want to hear. Lots of people like Mullards/british tubes in Marshalls as those were british amps that had those tubes to begin with, so the amp was designed and tested probably with them and "that" sound from the classic recordings is usually that particular tube. Same thing for the RCAs in Fender amps where they were OEM.


!) Not sure why it really matters just curious.All the 12AX7's that were suggested to trywere from other countries(Tesla,RFT,Telefunken...)
2) Im really thinking about pre amp tubes and unfortunately forgot to state that and edited my original post to reflect that.
3) See # 2
4) Again was thinking about pre amp tubes as you noted -Telefunken and Mullard

[jezzzz2003]

I also agree.
I know of someone who exclusively plays a Fender Blues Jnr and has bought NOS tubes off ebay and now swears his amp sounds heaps better.
I dont believe him I just think he's trying to justify his spending efforts to somehow think it was all worth it.
Tubes that originally came with the amp are usually the best tubes to stick to sound wise because thats what the amp was designed for.
NOS is for old and new old amps.
They may last longer in your blues junior but I would prefer to stick to current production because you never know if the tube you are buying is any good or has been used in the past. they're expensive too....

[joel]

American 12ax7's that I like:

RCA
GE
TungSol

[John Phillips]

I know of someone who exclusively plays a Fender Blues Jnr and has bought NOS tubes off ebay and now swears his amp sounds heaps better.
I dont believe him I just think he's trying to justify his spending efforts to somehow think it was all worth it.
Tubes that originally came with the amp are usually the best tubes to stick to sound wise because thats what the amp was designed for.
NOS is for old and new old amps.
They may last longer in your blues junior but I would prefer to stick to current production because you never know if the tube you are buying is any good or has been used in the past. they're expensive too....
I completely disagree with everything in this post... sorry.

I've put old-stock tubes in my new Mesas and they sound better, period. Not even a small difference, a huge night-and-day difference. I've never come across one single amp of any age where I've compared any old-stock tube to any new-production one and thought the new tube sounded better... not one.

It's completely irrelevant what the amp was 'designed around'. The only thing that matters is what sounds good to you - the amp designer may have different tastes. In any case, if you design an amp to sound good around bad tubes, why will it not simply sound better with good ones? IMO it's not so much that the old-stock tubes enhance the tone, as that the new-production ones strangle it... not quite the same thing. Old-stock tubes sound more detailed, transparent, fuller and richer to me than new, which sound slightly fuzzy, flat and indistinct. It's not an EQ thing (there are fairly wide differences in both), it's more to do with clarity.

Old-stock tubes last many times longer than new production - so much so that it doesn't really matter if they've been used, as long as they test strong. Even a used old-stock tube will outperform and outlast a new-production one, starting from now, let alone from when it was new. FWIW, I don't buy NOS tubes, I buy used old-stock tubes. The failure rate is far smaller than with new tubes, they sound better and they're mostly cheaper.

Old-stock tubes are not expensive in the long term, except for certain (IMO) over-hyped brands. Yes, Mullards and Telefunkens are good, but IMO they're not several times better than RCAs and RFTs for example. The big difference is between any of the old-stock types and the new-production. Most old-stock types are still actually cheaper than new-production if you factor in the life expectancy. Since they fail less and sound better as well, to me it's no contest.

If your favorite tube type happens to be one of the more plentiful, non-hyped varieties, that's great! My favorite preamp tubes for my Mesas are GEs and RCAs, and for power tubes Sylvanias and GEs. I do like Mullard EL34s in Marshalls, but Siemens are very good too at a lot less money, and I like RFT preamps best in them, even over Mullards.

But choose with your own ears, not what someone else tells you you should be using for whatever reason - whether it's someone on the internet, the guy that designed the amp (or the company which sells it, not necessarily the same thing), or someone trying to sell you hyped old tubes for more money than some unhyped brand which might have even been made in the same factory occasionally ;).


Just my opinion.

[bryan k]

i did the whole NOS taste test not to long ago. The RCA and NOS tung-sol are no way comparable to todays production tubes. I found that these 2 tubes wre very bright, upfront, edgy, and had a good amount of gain. other than that, alot of tubes sound the same.

to me a NOS RFT ecc83 sounds identical to a JJ ecc83-S
to me a JJ803 sounds like a NOS ecc83 (made in holland)
the GE tube is just very general, balanced, and didnt seem to do much as far as adding any color or tone.

but the NOS tung-sol........now thats a tube! it rips!

[slider313]

USA made 12ax7's come in many different "flavors". A GE 12ax7 long grey plate red logo sounds completly different than a Ge 12ax7wa short grey plate green logo and different from a GE 12ax7 short grey plate white logo. All in all they are great tubes if they are NOS and tested for microphonics and noise. Same with RCA's or any brand. there are different versions of this tube. All tubes are subject to defective properties at different gain levels.You just have to find some good ones.I happen to like the GE red logo long grey plate 12ax7. IMO nos 12ax7's sound so much better in vintage amps than ANY current production stuff and better in some newer production amps also especially the reissue style amps. Get yourself a few and compare.

[rockon1]

OK so now this thread has gone into old stock VS new production as well as imported old stock vs domestic old stock. Ive heard the claim that oldstock last much longer. If this is true -why?

[rockon1]

USA made 12ax7's come in many different "flavors". A GE 12ax7 long grey plate red logo sounds completly different than a Ge 12ax7wa short grey plate green logo and different from a GE 12ax7 short grey plate white logo. All in all they are great tubes if they are NOS and tested for microphonics and noise. Same with RCA's or any brand. there are different versions of this tube. All tubes are subject to defective properties at different gain levels.You just have to find some good ones.I happen to like the GE red logo long grey plate 12ax7. IMO nos 12ax7's sound so much better in vintage amps than ANY current production stuff and better in some newer production amps also especially the reissue style amps. Get yourself a few and compare.

So I just picked these up. For 25$ a piece NOS NIB I figured I couldnt go too wrong.What do you make of them?Damn its a small picture aarrrggghhh!

http://tinypic.com/ogauja_th.jpg

[John Phillips]

OK so now this thread has gone into old stock VS new production as well as imported old stock vs domestic old stock. Ive heard the claim that oldstock last much longer. If this is true -why?
Because they were made better, simple as that.

Broadly speaking... the old European and US tubes were made to close tolerances and with rigorous inspection at every stage. They were tested to find the bad ones. The current production types are made much more crudely - look carefully at the inner structures of a lot of them and compare with old stock and you'll see the difference (some of the Chinese ones are really shocking). They're then tested to find the good ones. Certainly some of the badly-made tubes will pass the testing, but that isn't the same as a well-made tube. Yes, that is a generalization, but if you look at the tube structures it's not that much of one.

Back when the old-stock tubes were made, one of the main customers for tubes was the military, and the factories had been producing high-quality tubes for them and other demanding applications for decades... audio was just a small fraction of the final usage. Quality was the original priority, then cost. The new factories are producing tubes only for guitar amps and a very small number of hi-fi buyers... much smaller market, and quality is much less critical.

[brad347]

rockon1-- those are not the long plate versions. They will be a very nice, general tube, very transparent to my ear. Probably won't make you flip out but definitely much better than the new production tubes out there.

OF COURSE all of this depends on the amp you are using... I'm using my 65 Deluxe as a reference since that's a pretty standard thing and it's what I know best.

As far as your original question... yes when talking only about preamp tubes that changes everything.

Lots of times the real high-end stuff just came from europe... it's sort of like asking "why do people pay so much for mercedes benz (telefunken) and rolls royce (mullard) compared to an old chevy? (G.E.)"

More rigorous engineering went into these older tubes, especially (arguably) the european ones, and more care was put into their manufacture.

Frankly, old stock tubes were just made better than they are now... with more attention to detail etc.

[Reeek]

It's all about the tolerances in the mfg process and today's tubes simply don't have that part down yet whether they can't or don't want to. Today's inflation begats cost cutting measures too and profits prevail more than quality. At least that ratio has shiftwed to a degree from the good old days.

Consistent tolerances make for more tubes that have the sound of that mfg. out of a given batch. Yes, tubes from the same batch and mfg will vary in what they yield in tone and output but my money is on the fact that more vintage tubes passed the test versus today's tubes in a given batch.

Consistently tight tolerances makes for tubes that perform better and last longer. Even if you can't always "hear" the differences in the tolerances between yesterday's tube and today's tubes, the scope will bear it out.

Personally, I believe I can hear the difference so nobody burst my bubble! :moon

It's my money and my money goes on vintage tubes whenever it's feasible. In fact, I take used but tested good vintage tubes over unused new production without blinking an eye.

:D

[slider313]

[quote=rockon1]OK so now this thread has gone into old stock VS new production as well as imported old stock vs domestic old stock. Ive heard the claim that oldstock last much longer. If this is true -why?[/
quote]

Why does my mothers old GE waffle iron(early '60's) still work great and the one I bought (very expensive) at William Sonoma crapped out after about 8 months of use? Why does my Zenith tube radio(1950) still work great when the Sony AM/FM boom box cassette player lasted about 3 yrs? Things were built to a higher quality back when most vacuum tubes were produced.Things today are made to be disposable,that's how big business' make record profits ( and pay the average worker low wages). To build a better tube today would not be cost effective!!

[BozoTone]

Going back to original question, I think the "black plate" era of domestic tubes are killer...AX7's, EL84's as well as the 6's are some of the best ever produced anywhere at any time, and I am a huge fan of Blackburn Mullards and Heerlen Amperex's...my favorite EL84 is a black plate.....
On the newer stuff, nothing touches the longivity, build quality and sonic nuances of old glass whether it be NOS or a good "pull".....
BT

[twangbanger]

I like the rca blackplate 12AX7's for country and blues stuff. Have a couple of mullard 12AX7's really like one of them and the other one is dull. Came across some baldwin organ pulls that are marked baldwin but are a dead ringer for the rca blackplates and they sound the best! Just keep buying they and trying them till you come across a winner.
Rob

[jezzzz2003]

I completely disagree with everything in this post... sorry.

I've put old-stock tubes in my new Mesas and they sound better, period. Not even a small difference, a huge night-and-day difference. I've never come across one single amp of any age where I've compared any old-stock tube to any new-production one and thought the new tube sounded better... not one.

It's completely irrelevant what the amp was 'designed around'. The only thing that matters is what sounds good to you - the amp designer may have different tastes. In any case, if you design an amp to sound good around bad tubes, why will it not simply sound better with good ones? IMO it's not so much that the old-stock tubes enhance the tone, as that the new-production ones strangle it... not quite the same thing. Old-stock tubes sound more detailed, transparent, fuller and richer to me than new, which sound slightly fuzzy, flat and indistinct. It's not an EQ thing (there are fairly wide differences in both), it's more to do with clarity.

Old-stock tubes last many times longer than new production - so much so that it doesn't really matter if they've been used, as long as they test strong. Even a used old-stock tube will outperform and outlast a new-production one, starting from now, let alone from when it was new. FWIW, I don't buy NOS tubes, I buy used old-stock tubes. The failure rate is far smaller than with new tubes, they sound better and they're mostly cheaper.

Old-stock tubes are not expensive in the long term, except for certain (IMO) over-hyped brands. Yes, Mullards and Telefunkens are good, but IMO they're not several times better than RCAs and RFTs for example. The big difference is between any of the old-stock types and the new-production. Most old-stock types are still actually cheaper than new-production if you factor in the life expectancy. Since they fail less and sound better as well, to me it's no contest.

If your favorite tube type happens to be one of the more plentiful, non-hyped varieties, that's great! My favorite preamp tubes for my Mesas are GEs and RCAs, and for power tubes Sylvanias and GEs. I do like Mullard EL34s in Marshalls, but Siemens are very good too at a lot less money, and I like RFT preamps best in them, even over Mullards.

But choose with your own ears, not what someone else tells you you should be using for whatever reason - whether it's someone on the internet, the guy that designed the amp (or the company which sells it, not necessarily the same thing), or someone trying to sell you hyped old tubes for more money than some unhyped brand which might have even been made in the same factory occasionally ;).


Just my opinion.

I value your opinion.
After all thats what this page is all about.
Different strokes for different folks.
Thanks for your reply.

[Rod]

I recently aquired a VHT Pitbull 30 that sounded fairly horrible in the overdrive channel with the stock JJ 12AX7's...I replaced just the V2 slot withan old RCA black plate, and this amp sounds as good as my Cornford Hellcat/ I could buy 5 VHT's for 1 Cornford!!!:BITCH :BITCH :BITCH

[pepeteus]

What comes to the quality and the quantities of tubes made in the "golden era" of tubes...Here's my opinion. I don't have any facts or statistics and I'm sure that nobody has at least here.

The amount of tubes made in the past times was huge compared to the amount of tubes made today. And while the quality and constrution of the old tubes was certainly better than today's tubes there still were a lot of bad ones too. It would interesting to know the relative reject rate of the tubes that were manufactured in the past and compare that to today's numbers. Does anyone have any facts about this??

Back then people bought tubes for their radios and televisions like they bought glow bulbs for their lamps. Not all tubes lasted like those that have survived to our days in radios and guitar amps. A tube was a commodity. There were a lot of bad ones back then too. I've had a few NOS tubes that have become microphonic in a very short time.

I use both new and NOS (or UOS, Used Old Stock) tubes. Soundwise the new are not necessarily worse, just different. Of course there's some magic in NOS tubes and they certainly have some qualities in tone that the current production lacks. But a part of it must be psychology. That is just human. ;)

[EADGBE]

I like everything but Chinese tubes.

[BozoTone]

One other thing I ment to mention is old production tubes, for the most part, test with more gain (mu) which doesn't mean it is a superior tube. Old light bulbs seem to have better side to side triode balance than new prod. With new tubes I don't really see anything over 1.15 and usually much closer 1.0-1.05...funny enough, my favorite sounding tube in V1 is a Tesla (Not JJ) E83CC at 1.08/1.05...I've always thought a "good" strong tube (AX7) should test in the 1.2 range...example: I have a '56 Mullard long plate that measures 1.35 both sides with excellent balance and a '59 Mullard that measures 1.45/1.5 with good balance. Both look "pretty used"...I must add here: I have a set of '62 Mullard EL84's that draw 26.7/26.8 mA and tranconductance of 6.87/7.26. So by looking at the results, these should be very balanced, good, strong tubes...WELL...they sound like they are on their last leg...all the testing in the world with great numbers doesn't mean everything...makes ya wonder, if the guys who really haven't had good luck with old glass have judged off of one example of a particular brand that though it tested "good", wasn't really a good tube.....
BT

[brad347]

i'm all about robbing old Mullards from existing hi fi gear...

v1 and v2 in my deluxe and the pair of EL84s in my pro jr (all mullard) are virtually NOS pulls from an old but barely used 2 track recorder I bought at a thrift shop for $20 :D

[BozoTone]

.....not funny 347.....:D.....

[tedjac]

I've been collecting preamp tubes for a couple of months in anticipation of trying them in my new Fuchs ODS30SLX. I have three Mullards (two 7025s), one ECC83 smoothplate Tele, two GE 6881s, one triple mica RCA blackplate 5751, one Amperex ECC83 orange globe, two Tesla (not JJ) ECC803s gold pin, one RCA 7025 grayplate, one RCA Command series 5751. So, I've got a lot a swapping to do when my amp gets here! I also have 4 Bendix 5992 blackplates (6V6GT), 6 RCA greyglass blackplate 6V6GT, 4 Sylvania JAN 6V6GT, and 4 Canadian Marconi 5871 (6V6GT). With all of these tubes to play around with I may never have time to use the amp... ;-)

So... I'm obviously expecting some differences in these tubes... and I'll try and take notes and post some results in the next few weeks... the amp should be here Monday or Tuesday.

Ted

[Reeek]

I also have 4 Bendix 5992 blackplates (6V6GT


YIKES! Not that those are any better sounding than other fine 6V6GT types, but they are VERY rare as I'm sure you know. You may want to stash two of them to help finance an early retirement :AOK

I have one and included it in a large tube taste test in my Hi Mu head. It came in within the top 4 tubes for tone even if they are a heavy duty industrial tube. It didn't win but again, they are very hard to come by. Good snag!

Who won? The Brimar ;)

[brad347]

Reeek, did you try a westinghouse/marconi?

I love those in my deluxe.

[tedjac]

YIKES! Not that those are any better sounding than other fine 6V6GT types, but they are VERY rare as I'm sure you know. You may want to stash two of them to help finance an early retirement :AOK

I have one and included it in a large tube taste test in my Hi Mu head. It came in within the top 4 tubes for tone even if they are a heavy duty industrial tube. It didn't win but again, they are very hard to come by. Good snag!

Who won? The Brimar ;)

You can actually find the 5992s a few places. There are some up on eBay right now and a couple of the tube dealers have a decent quantity that they are selling for betwen $40 and $75 each. I didn't pay that much for mine...

Ted

[Shea]

Why does my mothers old GE waffle iron(early '60's) still work great and the one I bought (very expensive) at William Sonoma crapped out after about 8 months of use? Why does my Zenith tube radio(1950) still work great when the Sony AM/FM boom box cassette player lasted about 3 yrs? Things were built to a higher quality back when most vacuum tubes were produced.Things today are made to be disposable,that's how big business' make record profits ...

Or maybe it just seems like everything used to be made more durable back in the 50s, because any cheesy crap that they made back then would have been thrown out a long time ago, and we only see the durable things that were made back then because that's all that is left. So perhaps 50 years from now people will be saying the same thing about stuff made today.

I'm not saying that applies to tubes, though. As a rule, I do find old tubes to be a lot more durable than new ones.

But I've gotten some Phillips JAN 12AT7s that were pure crap - noisy and limp sounding right out of the box. I've also gotten some NOS 12BZ7s that were rather noisy. I've also had a few used GE and Sylvania tubes that functioned OK, but just didn't sound very good - JJs would have sounded a lot better than them.

OTOH, I don't think I've ever met an RCA tube that I didn't like. For a Fender amp, I'll take an RCA 7025 over a Mullard ECC83.

Shea

[Blue Strat]

[quote=rockon1]OK so now this thread has gone into old stock VS new production as well as imported old stock vs domestic old stock. Ive heard the claim that oldstock last much longer. If this is true -why?[/
quote]

Why does my mothers old GE waffle iron(early '60's) still work great and the one I bought (very expensive) at William Sonoma crapped out after about 8 months of use? Why does my Zenith tube radio(1950) still work great when the Sony AM/FM boom box cassette player lasted about 3 yrs? Things were built to a higher quality back when most vacuum tubes were produced.Things today are made to be disposable,that's how big business' make record profits ( and pay the average worker low wages). To build a better tube today would not be cost effective!!
LOL, I attribute this to what I (affectionately?) refer to as "MBA Syndrome".:o AKA, "nothing matters after this quarter ends (and I've received my bonus for making 'the numbers' )". ;)

[Blue Strat]

One other thing I ment to mention is old production tubes, for the most part, test with more gain (mu)
BT

After having tested 40,000 plus tubes, I respectfully disagree. But hell, what do I know? ;)

[Blue Strat]

Or maybe it just seems like everything used to be made more durable back in the 50s, because any cheesy crap that they made back then would have been thrown out a long time ago, and we only see the durable things that were made back then because that's all that is left. So perhaps 50 years from now people will be saying the same thing about stuff made today.



Maybe you haven't the benefit (?) of having lived through those days and knowing first hand that it isn't an illusion. Trust me, as one who was born in the '50s, it's a fact and anyone who's been around as long as I have knows this to be the case.

[sosomething]

I just put a NOS JAN GE 12at7 in the V3 position of my Splawn Pro Mod and now that amp wails like a fishwife who's husband was lost at sea. It definitely took something great and made it even greater(er) - when you grab a good high note and really smack it, it compresses and then blooms in a way strikingly similar to power-tube sag without a lack of clarity or brain-exploding decibel levels.

It replaced a new production JJ Tesla 12ax7. Noticeably less gain (though this was much more apparent in the V1 spot) and startlingly warmer and more organic-sounding. Now, I realize that these are different tubes (12ax7 and 12at7), but I didn't expect the difference in feel and tonal spectrum to be so pronounced.

[Shea]

Maybe you haven't the benefit (?) of having lived through those days and knowing first hand that it isn't an illusion. Trust me, as one who was born in the '50s, it's a fact and anyone who's been around as long as I have knows this to be the case.

You're right, I wasn't alive then. And I've seen things made in the old days that are far, far more sturdy than their counterparts from later years.

But I know there was at least some poorly made crap in the 50s and 60s. I've owned some of it. I still have my plywood archtop Epiphone from the late 40s or early 50s. I used to have an old Kay amp with a carboard cabinet and series filament tubes, but I gave it back to the guy who gave it to me. The body on my Moserite is a disgrace - the neck pocket is so big, it leaves a 1/16" gap on each side of the neck.

My point is that we tend to remember the Fenders and forget about the Harmonys.

Also, I question the reliability of TVs and radios made from the 50s through the 70s, becaue there were a lot more repairmen around back then than there are now. For a while I thought that the reason they all disappeared was because nowadays when a TV breaks, we just throw it out and get a new one instead of getting it fixed. But then I thought, when was the last time I actually threw out a TV or radio because it didn't work? Hmm... I really don't remember doing that in the past 10 years. There was one VCR and one CD player that threw out in the past decade, but not any TV or radio.

Shea

[Blue Strat]

Also, I question the reliability of TVs and radios made from the 50s through the 70s, becaue there were a lot more repairmen around back then than there are now.

Shea

True, but those TVs had tubes in 'em....oh wait! LOL ;)

[brad347]

OK, i'll bite on this one... if the Sovtek is the "harmony" of tubes, then where is the "fender?" NOS of course!

[BozoTone]

Hey Blue Strat, I have only tested about 100, so really it is ME that doesn't know what the hell I'm talkin' about...LOL....just from what I have seen in the 5 mins I've been testin'....
BZT

[Blue Strat]

Hey Blue Strat, I have only tested about 100, so really it is ME that doesn't know what the hell I'm talkin' about...LOL....just from what I have seen in the 5 mins I've been testin'....
BZT
Damn, you can test 100 tubes in 5 minutes? Want a job?:BEER

[BozoTone]

I do Mike....where do you keep your mop...lol...my reference to "5 mins." is in comparision to how long you've been readin' the numbers.....
BZT

[VintageJon]

I spent 4 year's as a TV Repairman- Ouotside Service. This was when a 25" RCA/Zenith/Quasar console cost $600-$1500 in the early 70's. Thus it was worth fixing. No TV today is worth fixing, you just replace them.
TV's I did had tubes in them, now it's just chips...

5 minute tube test- HA HA... it takes longer than that to warm them up and let them stabilize in the first test. Then there's Noise,Microphonics, and Current Test in an actual chassis...

Howdy Mike, see ya in March!

-Jon

[Reeek]

I think we've all come to the conclusion that tubes just plain suck :jo

:Devil

[sosomething]

I think we've all come to the conclusion that tubes just plain suck :jo

:Devil

Speak for yourself!

[BozoTone]

They definetly do Reeek...it's the vacuum thang.....
BZT

[Reeek]

They definetly do Reeek...it's the vacuum thang.....
BZT

That one deserves a nice LOL :D But there are two ways to suck, good and bad, which is it? :D :D

[phsyconoodler]

I have to jump in here and say this: To do an accurate test of new tubes vs old stock tubes,we must have an amplifier in good operating condition.If it isn't in top condition,the results can be tainted.with that said,my experience with preamp tubes tells me that there are a lot of NOS 12AX7's and others like 12AU7's that are clearly superior in sound.But I have also found some new production ones to be as good.It leans towards NOS though.I have a box full of failed new production 12AX7's and about 2 out of 100 NOS ones that are no good.You be the judge.I like to test the sonic qualities of 12AX7's in single ended amps where ther is only one preamp tube.That way if it's good,it will immediate show itself because there is only the one to color the whole amp.
So it boils down to this;we need to have spare tubes on hand regardless of whether they are new production or NOS.I just need less of the NOS because the failure rate is far less.What sounds the best?Who knows for sure? Some guys like different sounds than other guys.Hence the vast amount of amp buiders out there.

[VintageJon]

I agree with you, physconoodler! After running tests on Hickok or Weston I run them in a Fender Champ, (1971 completely rebuilt and speced.) This is my Noise/Microphonics/Sound test for pre-amp tubes as I know what it sounds like and it is as simple-an-amp as it gets...

Also excellent platform for testing 6V6 and 5Y3...

Gotta love every Champ they ever made through the early 70's.
(Only have '54 and '71 examples, but they are the best and I'm greatful for them. Each is fully restored...)

-Jon