PU too hot for Fuchs??

[wahfreak]

Hey all,
I'm playing a Tom Anderson with an H2+ in the bridge going through a ODS-50. While it sounds great, I can't seem to get that really smooth Carlton/Ford tone. It gets some pretty awful hum too when playing through the PU. I've tried to really back off the gain (between 1 and 2) but it just doesn't capture the smoothness. Is a H2+ just too hot for this amp?? :confused:

[Deaj]

I generally prefer lower output pickups with my ODS. I have a friend who uses hot humbuckers in all of his guitars and, while they sound ok through my ODS I didn't particularly care for the tone of any of them. Probably more of a personal preference than a limitation of the amp. It's worth asking Andy Fuchs.

[hendrix2430]

I too prefer low output pickups, but that's with any amp, so YMMV. I have gotten nice smooth tones out of my fuchs with humbuckers, P90, single coils, but I prefer the dynamic range I can get with singles better.

My favorite (lead) tones with the fuchs are with tele bridge pickup and strat bridge pickup. I have no problem getting robben fordish sounds that way (with the mid boost engaged, and rock setting).

[Fretmaster]

While in general I prefer low output pickups with any of my amps for my style playing I run everything from vintage strats or LP's with low output pickups to a PRS that has pretty high output pickups and have not experienced ANY noise problems and was able to dial in tones I really like. In fact, the Fuchs TDS especially is one of the quiestest amps I've ever played when screaming hot. As for nailing "the tone" I really can't comment due to the subjectivity of tonal description. But in general what I'm trying to say is the Fuchs works well with high or low output pickups with no noise issues in my experience.

[fullerplast]

Hey all,
I'm playing a Tom Anderson with an H2+ in the bridge going through a ODS-50. While it sounds great, I can't seem to get that really smooth Carlton/Ford tone. It gets some pretty awful hum too when playing through the PU. I've tried to really back off the gain (between 1 and 2) but it just doesn't capture the smoothness. Is a H2+ just too hot for this amp?? :confused:

Two things you can try are adjusting the internal gain trim pot and replacing V1 with a 5751 or 12AY7. Roll down the bass and mid pots a bit as well.

[Blue Strat]

Two things you can try are adjusting the internal gain trim pot and replacing V1 with a 5751 or 12AY7. Roll down the bass and mid pots a bit as well.

Yeah, the internal gain pot has a tremendous effect. If that doesn't do it for you, try one of the aforementioned lower gain preamp tubes in V1 and/or V2 (where the overdrive originates).

[scottl]

What speaker are you using??

How old is your Fuchs? Serial #?

Which brand preamp tubes are you using?

Scott

[Srini]

Yeah, the internal gain pot has a tremendous effect. If that doesn't do it for you, try one of the aforementioned lower gain preamp tubes in V1 and/or V2 (where the overdrive originates).

Agreed. Mike, you recall I went through the exact same issue, same pickups and you helped address the situation. In retrospect, though, the 5751 (the RCAs anyway) thinned out the tone a bit. I didn't really notice it at first because the gain trim pot was set too high fo rmy taste until you backed it off. But when I recently swapped in the Mullard ECC83s in V1 and V2, the amp not only became more agressive, it also sounded a lot fuller with more bottom. I don't know if its because of the higher gain, or just because they're Mullards - but something to keep in mind anyway.

Srini

[Tag]

Hey all,
I'm playing a Tom Anderson with an H2+ in the bridge going through a ODS-50. While it sounds great, I can't seem to get that really smooth Carlton/Ford tone. It gets some pretty awful hum too when playing through the PU. I've tried to really back off the gain (between 1 and 2) but it just doesn't capture the smoothness. Is a H2+ just too hot for this amp?? :confused:


First off, is it an SLX?? My stock Fuchs (pre slx) would not do the really smooth thing until after Scott brought it up to SLX specs. Second, the treble bleed knob in the back is the ENTIRE KEY to getting totally smooth tones with different guitars. Start with the knob all the way off, then slowly turn the knob (while playing) up until all buzz disapears! SMOOTH SMOOTH SMOOTH!!! You can dial out any buzz with any different guitars. I even want to have this knob put on my E.Pro. Its GENIUS! :AOK

The one other thing, put a telefunken smooth plate in VI. That will cut down on gain, and smooth it out even more. Scotts SLX mods completely changed the voice of my Fuchs and brought it into Ford land.
VERY GOOD VERY GOOD!!!
:RoCkIn

[scottl]

Tag,

You big mouth...... Treble bleed knob?? LOL

[Tone Disciple]

Hey all,
I'm playing a Tom Anderson with an H2+ in the bridge going through a ODS-50. While it sounds great, I can't seem to get that really smooth Carlton/Ford tone. It gets some pretty awful hum too when playing through the PU. I've tried to really back off the gain (between 1 and 2) but it just doesn't capture the smoothness. Is a H2+ just too hot for this amp?? :confused:

There are many good amp recommendations here, but what about the PU in the guitar? This very reason is why I do not currently have an Anderson of the four I have owned - the PU's were too hot. Love the guitars, love the craftsmanship, great necks good scale options, just liked the sound of other manufacturer's instruments better.

[Tag]

Tag,

You big mouth...... Treble bleed knob?? LOL


:confused:

[Tag]

Tag,

You big mouth...... Treble bleed knob?? LOL


Sent you an email. By the way, did you listen to those Rodney Jones clips I sent you? :)

[wahfreak]

The serial number on the Fuchs is 0234 so it's not an SLX. Everything is stock on it so the preamp tubes are stock also (Ruby) The speaker is also a stock 12" Eminence.
I got the Anderson way before I got the Fuchs and I wanted the extra push but now it seems as though the H2+ may be a bit of a hinderance. Especially the noise. I can stand 10ft from the amp with my back turned and still get horrible buzz. Completely disappears with neck PU.

[Tag]

The serial number on the Fuchs is 0234 so it's not an SLX.

Forget the real smooth tones then. Mine would not do it. A killer amp, but much more roots R&R and roots blues than the real smooth Ford/Dumble thing. Send it to Andy for the SLX mods, and enter smooth heaven. :dude

[hendrix2430]

First off, is it an SLX?? My stock Fuchs (pre slx) would not do the really smooth thing until after Scott brought it up to SLX specs.

I have a pre slx50 and slx30, and while I agree that the slx sounds smoother and more sensitive than the pre slx, I CAN get really smooth tones out of the 50, no pbs whatsoever.

Second, the treble bleed knob in the back is the ENTIRE KEY to getting totally smooth tones with different guitars. Start with the knob all the way off, then slowly turn the knob (while playing) up until all buzz disapears!

Treble bleed knob? Huh? where?

Tag,

You big mouth...... Treble bleed knob?? LOL

Ahhh...I get it. So, scott, what does that exactly knob do? :D

[LavaMan]

I have EMG's H/S/S in my Strat and they sound killer through my TDS 50 - a lot of rollable gain, and smooth beyond belief. Although, I have considered getting another Strat with Fralin's in it to warm up the tones a bit - EMG's are a little glassy sounding on the clean side. I think you can dial in your Fuchs to smooth out and get the tone your after...

[jspax7]

[Quote:
Originally Posted by scottl
Tag,

You big mouth...... Treble bleed knob?? LOL]



I don't have a Trouble Bleed knob!?! Oops.

Mine is an ODS 30 SLX, but apparently not current SLX spec. (specifications subject to change) RWB speaker helps! Voltage regulation too.

I can get a really smooth bridge pickup tone. I almost never set the gain above 12:00, and the OD in at 12:00 also. For that matter, try everyhing at 12:00 first, and make subtle adjustments from there. Roll off the treble (there's that word again) on the guitar slightly, to warm things up.

Remember, Carlton and Ford use set neck, humbucker equipped guitars, and while I like a Strat, my ODS prefers my chambered body Bluesbird with Duncan 59's. I did play an Anderson, and found the bridge pickup very sweet indeed.

12:00 or less on the amp's treble control, (not to be confused with the TBK) is a key to controlling smoothness.

One more thing. Take your amp out to play. It's very different in a live setting than it is at home. (something about the Thurman Munson theory...?)

[aeolian]

You could try lowering the pickups into the body to get a lower output. I have a 5751 in my amp to lower the gain a bit for my 335.

I am really wondering just what "smooth" means. It's a term often tossed around, especially in relation to Robben Ford and Larry Carlton. When I listen to something like The Pump from No Substitutions, Larry's rig sounds pretty raw. Anybody who's sat in front of Robben's rig at a show will tell you that it cuts though you like a Teppan chef. And having played through Robben's back up Dumble at a clinic, I can tell you that it is anything but soft and warm. A very stiff and unforgiving "professional" grade amplifier.

Is smooth the absense of top end? The absense of bite? Or just the absense of "buzz" or a raw edge? I don't want to roll off the treble. I want the attack, and bite on a note when the musical idea calls for it. A rawer tone where it's appropriate. I can roll off the highs with my hands, which is what Larry and Robben do. It's not a rolled off amp. That's as simple as turning down the presence and treble.

[scottl]

Steve, the bleed is not a rolled off amp... You are assuming things with no clue to what I am doing. You should try one before making judgements. The amp is tuned around using the bleed. No loss of bite. There was no need to slag one of my mods, I was not jumping in here touting it. Tag was. A very happy customer might I add.

Scott

[LSchefman]

You do realize that you can simply reduce the volume knob on the guitar slightly and the signal will be less hot.

Lots of guys set up their amps with the knobs on the guitar turned up all the way, and then where do you go when you want to push the amp just a little more?

The session guys who recorded in my studio taught this to me: set the amp up with the volume and tone rolled off a little bit, say 8 (or less) instead of 10. This should result in a fairly smooth setting. Then when you want to, you can roll the volume up and get more heat and grind, mess with the tone, and control the amp from the guitar.

So maybe you add a little more treble or use the bright switch, or presence control on the amp to get your basic sound and make up for the slight loss in highs when you roll off the volume. It's all a balancing act. Use the knobs! ;)

[jspax7]

Just an opinion here.... I played Boogies for years, and you had to turn the treble up quite a bit to get any bite. What I notice about the Fuchs is that there is plenty of bite without a higher treble setting.

I love a neck humbucker pickup tone with volume and tone dimed. The bridge pickup seems to balance better with the treble on 8. (Guitar treble knob)

Carlton's tone is sweet, but stings too. It's in his pick attack. Listen to Blues Force from Fourplay. (Yes Please) I can get real close to that tone using both pickups, neck volume on 6-7, tone dimed, bridge volume dimed, and tone rolled off to 8 on the bridge pickup. The rest depends on the attack. Sweet and smooth: pick softly, Stinging with lots of bite: Dig in.

Use 4 different pick attacks, get 4 different tones. I've never had an amp do that. Play with the volume and tone controls.

[Tag]

Steve, the bleed is not a rolled off amp... You are assuming things with no clue to what I am doing. You should try one before making judgements. The amp is tuned around using the bleed. No loss of bite. There was no need to slag one of my mods, I was not jumping in here touting it. Tag was. A very happy customer might I add.

Scott


Its magical. It really seems like it does nothing but take out the buzz. It does NOT seem to reduce treble. It also does not take the chirp out. I think evey amp with overdrive should have one. AMAZING!! Again, I want to have it added to my E.Pro. :AOK

[wahfreak]

Thanks for all replys. I've done my share of tweaking knobs and the like, but it's really hard to "dial in" smoothness. Sometimes the best you can really do is dial out the harshness, but it's usually at the expense of something else. Don't get me wrong, this is in no way is a reflection of Andy's products. These are the most versital amps I've ever played. It just seems like a hot pick up into a high gain amp (while trying to keep clarity and articulation) is asking for trouble at some point. I guess I was fishing for the breaking point. I have unpteen OD/distiortion so I can always get grittier if needed. Is there a voltage output where one could say it's starting entering harsh territory? There certainly is a line between a vintage single coil and a flamethower humbucker. I have a 57 positioned almost to the edge of the cone to tame things but then it starts to get mushy and hollow sounding. I could just back off on the PU to an H or H2. The wife has put restrictions on the money so I have to choose what I do carefully, so I have a choice between PU, SLX mod or speaker.
Scottl - is the SLX mod something I could do myself?? I'm handy enough with a soldering iron.

[Tag]

Thanks for all replys. I've done my share of tweaking knobs and the like, but it's really hard to "dial in" smoothness. Sometimes the best you can really do is dial out the harshness, but it's usually at the expense of something else. Don't get me wrong, this is in no way is a reflection of Andy's products. These are the most versital amps I've ever played. It just seems like a hot pick up into a high gain amp (while trying to keep clarity and articulation) is asking for trouble at some point. I guess I was fishing for the breaking point. I have unpteen OD/distiortion so I can always get grittier if needed. Is there a voltage output where one could say it's starting entering harsh territory? There certainly is a line between a vintage single coil and a flamethower humbucker. I have a 57 positioned almost to the edge of the cone to tame things but then it starts to get mushy and hollow sounding. I could just back off on the PU to an H or H2. The wife has put restrictions on the money so I have to choose what I do carefully, so I have a choice between PU, SLX mod or speaker.
Scottl - is the SLX mod something I could do myself?? I'm handy enough with a soldering iron.

Take into consideration with the SLX mods and the treble bleed, all of my Fuchs clips were done with a G12H30 speaker (LOTS of high end treble, and NOT the best speaker for smooth overdrive tones), and my SM 57 jammed DEAD CENTER into the speaker! :eek: Still, SMOOOOTH as silk! Get the SLX mods!!! :AOK

[aeolian]

Steve, the bleed is not a rolled off amp... You are assuming things with no clue to what I am doing. You should try one before making judgements. The amp is tuned around using the bleed. No loss of bite. There was no need to slag one of my mods, I was not jumping in here touting it. Tag was. A very happy customer might I add.

Scott

Huh? I wasn't slagging anything anyone had done. Least of all, any mods that you may have added to anyone's amps. I was trying to clarify in my mind what "smooth" meant. Tag, has referred to "buzz" on several occasions. Bruce Zinky has a bit he calls "buzzkill", which is in his amps, and which he can mod into many others. The prototype I have from him does not buzz, but the timbre sounds very different than any Fuchs/Dumble/TwoRock type amp that I've heard. More Marshall like, at least to this non-Marshall guy. And I was trying to point out that the folks most often mentioned in association with "smooth" tone actually have fairly harsh and stiff rigs, but that it's the way that they play that makes it sound centered and thick. I just got back from playing volleyball this morning. It's interesting how some folks are more into fancy offensive allignments and plays than just having solid ball handling skills and being able to hit it where they should. I sense a degree of this in these threads. "If I dial in my amp or modify it just so, I can sound like someone who gets their tone in an entirely different manner". But it seems to me that if you do this with the amp, you lose the opportunity to have more range of tone at your disposal. So I'm curious as to how much of the range various folks are losing when they use the amp to create the smoothness.

No offense intended to anyone, and I'm sorry if it was perceived that way.

Great night last night. I was playing Europa in the last set and kind of quietly. Then with the OD and mid boost on, I kicked in the Zen and was able to get a high note to feedback perfectly and hold it a la Carlos's ungodly loud stage rig. I was pushing on the string behind the bridge with the heel of my hand making a subtle vibrato (this technique sounds different than either left hand vibrato or a whammy) while gently rolling a bit of it over the bridge from time to time to control the feedback and volume of the note. Held it for at least 8 bars, had the audience going nuts, and I was digging how it sounded. I love this rig! When you can get away with stunts like that and it comes out musical, that's what I bother with a fancy amp for. Love ya Andy!

[Tag]

"If I dial in my amp or modify it just so, I can sound like someone who gets their tone in an entirely different manner". But it seems to me that if you do this with the amp, you lose the opportunity to have more range of tone at your disposal. So I'm curious as to how much of the range various folks are losing when they use the amp to create the smoothness.



You have always thought that Fords tones are in his fingers, i have always thought it was his amps. His tones are totally different in his video where he plays both the red knobber and Dumble. IMO, if it wee his fingers, he would sound the same throgh both amps. Point #2: Go to Ultrasound, plug into Genes tan Dumble. Sounds like Ford to me, with ME playing. Point #3: Plug into a TwoRock E.Pro. It is an EXACT CLONE of a specific Dumble. From very reliable and informed sources, They did NOT tweak it to just audibly sound like Ford. It is a CLONE of a specific Dumble. It sounds like Ford to me too. The Fuchs SLX sounds like Ford to me as well. The treble bleed, IMO, brings it even further, with tones that are smoother than Fords if you want them. If you do not, leave it turned off.

Point #4. I used to play semi pro volley ball. If you disagree with me, expect a six pack in your face. ;) Seriously, I REALLY miss playing V ball. Hope you had a great time! :)

[scottl]

Jeez the internet has a way to twist things... LOL

Steve, no offense taken. We really should rap though. I can fill you in on what I have been up to so you know where I am coming from. No hardsell on the tweaks. I have always looked up to your electrical expertise and I consider us friends.

Scott

[jspax7]

[quote=wahfreak] Is there a voltage output where one could say it's starting entering harsh territory?]



Are you using a voltage regulator? I used a power conditioner with a meter, and noticed a lack of tone and dynamics when the voltage dips. Plugging into the wall alone is very inconsistent.

I noticed this with my triaxis rig, but didn't think to plug the Fuchs into the conditioner until I played out and noticed a huge difference in response, tone and smoothness. :o (The Fuchs likes 120 volts just fine. Less is harsh, and more is not necessarily better.)

I'm trying a regulator and a Power Factor Pro. PFP first, then the regulator, according to Furman. Cleaner, quieter, (less noise with my strat) better dynamics too.

[Rob Livesey]

Thanks for all replys. I've done my share of tweaking knobs and the like, but it's really hard to "dial in" smoothness. Sometimes the best you can really do is dial out the harshness, but it's usually at the expense of something else. Don't get me wrong, this is in no way is a reflection of Andy's products. These are the most versital amps I've ever played. It just seems like a hot pick up into a high gain amp (while trying to keep clarity and articulation) is asking for trouble at some point. I guess I was fishing for the breaking point. I have unpteen OD/distiortion so I can always get grittier if needed. Is there a voltage output where one could say it's starting entering harsh territory? There certainly is a line between a vintage single coil and a flamethower humbucker. I have a 57 positioned almost to the edge of the cone to tame things but then it starts to get mushy and hollow sounding. I could just back off on the PU to an H or H2. The wife has put restrictions on the money so I have to choose what I do carefully, so I have a choice between PU, SLX mod or speaker.
Scottl - is the SLX mod something I could do myself?? I'm handy enough with a soldering iron.

Hi,
I have a 2001 ODS 100w mod amp and a 2005 100w ODS SLX. Both amps are capable of a really smooth overdrive tone.......BUT, I did have problems dialling in a REALLY smooth OD at first, a few years ago. I was always dealing with a kind of harsh grainy, gritty overtone, and, after much experimentation it came down to my guitar leads! These amps, respond to tiny nuances in your playing and as a result, they respond to tiny changes in the way you connect to them. For years I had used George L's cable, at that time I was a strat/tele into a BF amp kind of player, and for that application George L's are great. Move on a few years and I'm playing Fuchs amps, and more often humbucker guitars, most of the time I was happy, but occasionally, at rehearsals or intimate gigs, I could hear this nasty rasp in the overdrive. After talking to a friend of mine I tried some different cables (Ernie Ball Ultraflex) and immediately the problems I had been experiencing went away. I haven't looked back.

Just something to consider,

Rob.

[Fuchsaudio]

First of all, let's not confuse articulation with brightness or harshness. Also, like any amp, there are limits to how much you can force through any circuit without it "choking up".

An amp can be articulate and not be bright. An amp can be bright, and yet not really articulate, although most amps that are not bright cannot really be too articulate either. As an example say an AOR-100 Laney. Tons of gain, lots of compression, not much high end on the lead channel (quite smooth and soupy), and it simply wouldn't do a note ring or a singing sustain like a properly made D-style amp would.

As far as a pickup being too strong for a particular amp, sure it can happen. Most Fenders will fart with humbuckers, since their low frequency response (IMHO) was tailored to accomodate single coil (Fender) guitars, not humbuckers. You'll notice this most on low strings (lots more output and energy than a thin string), and Aeolians suggestion on lowering pickups (fully, or just on the low side) isn't a bad idea.

Most people don't realize Robben Ford usually plays his humbuckers tapped to avoid this problem on the low side. It's not limited to Fuchs or D-style amps, but many amps can have this "choke up" issue.

Normally, when I solo on the neck pickup. I don't find my self playing "lead" below the 4th string, nor do I play chords, especially on a neck pickup. As far as the lack of note ring or bloom (from the thread starter) a semi hollow or more lively bodied guitar can make this easier to acheive. I think Anderson's a great guitars, but might not be giving you the sustain and ring that your looking for. I'd suggest trying other guitars and cables as well.

[wahfreak]

For years I had used George L's cable, at that time I was a strat/tele into a BF amp kind of player, and for that application George L's are great. Move on a few years and I'm playing Fuchs amps, and more often humbucker guitars, most of the time I was happy, but occasionally, at rehearsals or intimate gigs, I could hear this nasty rasp in the overdrive. After talking to a friend of mine I tried some different cables (Ernie Ball Ultraflex) and immediately the problems I had been experiencing went away. I haven't looked back.

Rob, I'm glad you chimed in. I've been using George L's for some years now. I have not yet tried anything else. My entire board is laced with them too. As much as I'd like to think that the "nasty rasp" it's just cables, I would hate to have top pay for new ones. But I wil certainly try something new. Thanks
Are you using a voltage regulator? I used a power conditioner with a meter, and noticed a lack of tone and dynamics when the voltage dips. Plugging into the wall alone is very inconsistent.
I am plugged into a Furman power strip (rack mount) but it doesn't have meters on it. I was playing today and fired up the amp and it was nice a quite but after about 30 mintues the hum came back.

[Tom Gross]

Well, my Hollow Cobra with H01+ Bridge & H01- Neck sounds fantastic through all kinds of Fuchs and other D-style amps. Sometimes I roll back the volume a little, but I can also crank it and it sounds great.

[Rob Livesey]

Oh, I just thought that I would add that my pedal board is still wired with the George L's too, I just use the Ernie balls to and from the board. It does work.

Rob.