On Buying a Lowden O25c (I hope)

[ceyuh]

Hello everyone

I've been looking to purchase a premium acoustic guitar for some time now and I think I've found the one I want in the form of a Lowden O25c. I've played quite a few guitars in my search including some Goodall, Froggy Bottom, Santa Cruz, Larrivee, Collings, Breedlove, Taylor, Martin, and other Lowden models before I got to this one. The dealer is looking for just about $3800 US with case which is pretty close to the top of my price range. This is a NEW guitar. Can anyone share their experience with this model? Is this the right price? Does anyone have a suggestion for another maker I should try before I take the plunge?

Thanks for any help

[Ogre]

It would be hard to go wrong with any of the premier names you mentioned. I favor Lowden, Santa Cruz and Froggy Bottom. Lowdens have gotten more expensive, but I think they are worth it. I will check with my dealer and see if the price you have been quoted is fair.

[Chiba]

The 025C is a sweet, sweet instrument. My favorite thing about it is the neck - big, graceful, and just the right size for my freakishly large hands :) Seriously though, I'm eyeballing one (though used, not new) and thinking about selling a couple things to take the plunge.

--chiba

[papatar]

I have a like new F25C for sale if anyone's interested

[riffmeister]

$3800 for a new one is about right. the new Lowdens are EXCEPTIONALLY nice instruments! there is an F35C in a store near me......it is the nicest fingerstyle guitar I have ever played!!

[ceyuh]

I called Guitar Rez -- a dealer in Texas -- today after seeing them online...They quoted 3299 w/hsc plus shipping. I'd like to give the shop where I played it a fair crack to match or at least come close--After all, I did spend a bunch of his time and he has nothing to show for it (yet). I can't get that sound out of my head.

[royd]

Ceyuh,

I bought my first Lowden in late '86 or early '87. It was one of the first guitars built in the then new Irish shop. It was an L25C - the precursor to the O25C. That guitar was stolen in '99 in Phila (still dream of getting it back again). While Lowden was building me a replacement, a friend loaned me an O10C. In mid '00 I got my O25C Custom.

Since that time, there was a falling out in the company and George has split from his old partners, starting a new Lowden company along with a considerable raise in prices. The new guitars are amazing.

So what can I say about them that isn't obvious from my history? The O models are big guitars and may take some getting used to. The sound is hige but balanced across the registers. Some folk say they don't take struming very well, but that has not been my experience. Everything I've thrown at a Lowden, it just gave more back. The cedar top sounds more mature right away and changes slowly compared to spruce but it does get better over time. Do be careful though as the cedar dings very easily. On the other hands, Lowden guitars are built like tanks.

You can hear my Lowdens at the link in my sig. And there is a Lowden listserve on yahoogroups at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lowden-L/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lowden-L/) with lots of Lowden lovers and great info and advice. George's website is http://www.georgelowden.com/ and has sections for both the shop guitars and the ones he builds individually.

One problem though is that there aren't a lot of guitars from the new factory yet so they are hard to find.

[riffmeister]

I called Guitar Rez -- a dealer in Texas -- today after seeing them online...They quoted 3299 w/hsc plus shipping.

$3300 for a cutaway model? that's a very good price. you're sure it's the newest model? what color are the tuning keys?

[Jon C]

I agree on the big Lowden body, you should play before you buy; much as I love the Lowden sounds the big body is too big for my shoulder and causes issues.

So instead I found a fantastic S12 (small body) as NOS in a trusted store ~4 yrs. ago (a '97)... Huge sounds from a small box (Mahogany/cedar top), works equally great for finger or flatpicking, it's something to see a small body guitar that can take volume and hard strumming without giving it up. A couple of the Lowden mavens on the Lowden yahoo list had played this guitar in the store and after I bought it they remarked that it was one of the best they'd heard, balanced, loud, great bass for a small body...

Seeing those prices brings a smile, I paid way less than half the current price for a brand new S12.

Good luck,
Jon

[A440]

no doubt, Lowdens are beautiful guitars

I recommend trying a Huss & Dalton before you make the leap

[ceyuh]

Thanks for all of the input here.

I may not have been clear in an earlier post: I did indeed play a brand new O25c over the weekend. I was stunned by every facet of the guitar, both visually and tonally. I almost never use a pick, but I did some light to medium strumming and I was not discouraged.

As for riffmeister's query, you can see the ad with pictures here: www.guitarrez.com/aginventory/lowo25c.html
I followed the instruction to call for pricing and 3299 is what they quoted.

JonC commented on the size of the body, and while he's right (it's pretty damn big) I'm a big guy so I don't think that'll be a real concern.

A440 mentioned Huss and Dalton. I forgot to mention them in my original post. I tried 2 models (can't remember which) and they were nice...All of these intruments were "nice"... It's just that O25c was outstanding, at least to me.

I listened to some of royd's recordings, very impressive. Unfortunately, I live in a part of the country where the only reasonably priced internet access is horribly slow dialup so mp3 downloads--or any other downloads for that matter--take a l o n g time. There is one other shop I need to visit before I take the plunge, the biggest obstacle is distance. My "local" lowden shop is 200 miles away. I've been traveling to stores which carry a wide variety of high end instruments to kill as many birds with as few stones as possible. Keep your comments and suggestions coming!

[royd]

Ceyah,

three other pieces of infor re: lowdens...

they are remarkably consistent. I have played hundreds and only one has disappointed me (and that may have been old strings). All of the others sounded exactly as they should have.

they love altered tunings. You can drop your lowest string to a B or Bb on an O and it still sounds strong.

they are very sensitive to string choices. move from one type or evenone company to another and the guitar will sound different.

You're right, all of the companies mentioned make outstandig guitars but each company has its own sound. Probably the closest to a Lowden that you mentioned looking at was the Goodall... but if you love the sound of the Lowden, the H&D, for example, would be a very different sound.

[Tone Disciple]

Ceyuh

I have a Lowden O32 that I bought from Guitar Rez about 11 years ago and it is still my favorite acoustic. You can only get that Lowden tone from a Lowden. Great fingerstyle guitar alright, but one of the best kept secrets is how good they sound strummed. Crytal high end with nice warm bass.

The guys (ask for Jim Lehman) at Guitar Rez are great folks to work with and their fine shop deserves your support as well, but before you buy be sure to check out the Lowdens at High Desert Guitars in Santa Fe. Steve has some great Lowdens as well, including a nice O25C.

http://www.highdesertguitars.com/gallery.asp?id=24935&page=3&shopperid=

[Ogre]

That price is for a non-cutaway model. I was at Guitar Rez today, and the price for the O25C is $3750. There is a $450 upcharge for the cutaway.

[Jon C]

Ceyah,

three other pieces of infor re: lowdens...

they are remarkably consistent. I have played hundreds and only one has disappointed me (and that may have been old strings). All of the others sounded exactly as they should have.

they love altered tunings. You can drop your lowest string to a B or Bb on an O and it still sounds strong.

they are very sensitive to string choices. move from one type or evenone company to another and the guitar will sound different.

You're right, all of the companies mentioned make outstandig guitars but each company has its own sound. Probably the closest to a Lowden that you mentioned looking at was the Goodall... but if you love the sound of the Lowden, the H&D, for example, would be a very different sound.

very interesting... I have non acidic sweat so my strings last a long time. I was just about to replace the Elixirs I've used on the S12 a long time (they're at least year old!) because they sounded dull... after 15 mins. of playing the darn guitar opened up and the bell-like tone was back, amazing... I'll change on principle shortly but that was pretty impressive. I know Richard Thompson uses Elixirs on his, I think he said he can get about 2-3 shows out of a set if he doesn't break a string, which is remarkable given the workout he gives 'em.

jc

[ceyuh]

Thanks Ogre for doing the leg work, I appreciate it. Sounds like the "local" lowden dealer is in the right ballpark. My mom is planning to visit Ireland again this summer...wonder if I can get her to smuggle one out...On second thought, she wouldn't look good in a bright orange jumpsuit. Guess I'll just have to pony up the dough.

[Ogre]

You won't be sorry! I just got mine out to play. There really is not another guitar like it.

[ceyuh]

I am coming to that conclusion myself...There are however, a few other brands that come to mind before I make this "my final answer": Bourgeois, Ryan, and because I am intrigued by the design, MacPherson. I've not had the pleasure of putting my hands on any of them yet. Any thoughts on those would be welcomed, as well.

My hope is that you will soon hear a giant splashing sound as I take the plunge.

[riffmeister]

Bougeois is more "traditional" sounding than Lowden.

I am sure Ryan is great, but they will be at least 2x the price of a Lowden.

I've played two MacPhersons......not my cup of tea at all.

[billv]

If I may jump in a little late in the game...

1. I can only echo the kudos everyone has given to Lowdens. Mine (035 Spruce/Koa) has a stunning tone to it, and plays like a dream.

2. The 0 body size, at least for me is very comfortable. I generally play standing up and it fits nicely under my arm.

3. Definitely agree on the lower tunings. The bottom end of the 0 is almost as big as my Tacoma baritone, and much more refined in its tonal qualities.

4. My only challenge with Lowdens is their tendency to be bright. When I was looking for one, I went through several to find one that was balanced for me. And even so, it can get a little brittle sounding with the wrong strings.

5. The combination of tone and playability allows for a great of working with each note. There's a lot of depth to be plumbed. It will take me years...

Bill V.
http://www.billvencil.com

[ceyuh]

Feel free to jump in at any time. That O35 must be something special. You ought to post a photo of it someday. You mentioned strings...I never bothered to ask before: what do these guitars come with when new?

[nashvillesteve]

Definitely try a Bourgeois... Dana makes incredible instruments... a shop so reputable around the high-end Nashville music scene that the only sign reads "Yes" or "No," (Joe Glaser guitars, off East Iris) said that my OM-18 style Bourgeois was the closest he's played/heard to a real pre-war OM-18 since the last time he'd played a real one.

[billv]

Feel free to jump in at any time. That O35 must be something special. You ought to post a photo of it someday. You mentioned strings...I never bothered to ask before: what do these guitars come with when new?

1. Here's a page with a pics of the 035:

http://www.billvencil.com/gear/lowden/

2. The new Lowdens come with light gauge Elixirs. I prefer mediums, so I pulled the lights off of mine right after I got it.

Bill V.
http://www.billvencil.com

[ceyuh]

I use Elixer medium on every acoutic I own, I've been happy with them. I just switched to the phosphor bronze they offer on one of my guitars: so far, so good.

Riffmaster: You didn't like the MacPhersons...what can you tell me about them?

[riffmeister]

it's been a while....but my recollection is that they were kind of on the heavy side and didn't have a lively feel in my hands. the playability was very nice. the sound was okay, but didn't strike my admittedley 'traditional' tastes.

the Lowden sitka/maple F35, although not a 'traditional' sound, was very responsive to picking dynamics and utterly pure and balanced across frequencies......hard not to like it, esp for fingerstyle. if I had an extra $4K lying around, it would be mine!

[ceyuh]

SPUH-LASH !!!

I went and did it

Thank you to every one here who gave insight. Special thanks to Royd for bringing an available guitar to my attention. I'll report back when it arrives.

[riffmeister]

Lowden? Which one??

[ceyuh]

Lowden O25c...although the seller thought it was a 'mislabeled' O23...gently used, a good price. Expect to see it Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm giddy.

[Ogre]

Congratulations! They are special guitars.

[ceyuh]

I couldn't wait...I bumped the shipping to next day air for another $125. Should have it around 10 am. I Don't expect to get much rest this weekend, I'm glad to say.

[riffmeister]

I couldn't wait...I bumped the shipping to next day air for another $125. Should have it around 10 am. I Don't expect to get much rest this weekend, I'm glad to say.

Breathe in.....breathe out.....slowly.

we don't want you to hyperventilate.

:D

[ceyuh]

No kidding...My wife (bless her!) actually made the final call to get the deal done after I had resigned myself to waiting a while longer...I guess she got tired of my obsessing. What she didn't realize is that now the REAL obsessing begins :) God I love that woman!

[70s Rocker]

It's one incredible guitar. I went to buy a Taylor back in 1992 and saw the Lowden on the wall. Played the O25c and bought it!
The volume and tone are unreal.
I was playing it to backup a singer when our church was in a gym (during a building program). The Mic went out and I just played it hard. People in the back could still hear it and there were over 1,000 at the service. I can't see ever selling it!

[ceyuh]

I am just so impressed. I too was originally going to buy a Taylor. I fell in love with the looks of the 614ce L7 with that gorgeous maple and koa back...but I was disappointed by the (unplugged) sound. The 710 ce L9 (short scale) has a great sound for strumming but I'm primarily a fingerstylist--not a good fingerstylist, but a fingerstylist none the less. I think the 714 with it's cedar top and rosewood back and sides comes closest to the O25c in terms of tone for all the Taylors I've played. If I had not actually played this Lowden model recently, I'm reasonably sure that I would have purchased the 714 instead. I'm sure am glad I didn't pull the trigger on that one--Not that the Taylor is bad, it's just that this one is so good. I think this may be my "go to" guitar for the rest of my life. At least my wife hopes so.:)

[riffmeister]

so the Lowden arrived??

full report, please.

[ceyuh]

so the Lowden arrived??

full report, please.

Since you asked...

When I posted the start to this discussion, I wasn't expecting to own an O25c anytime soon, I was thinking maybe sometime in May, and I was thinking NEW. I was really happy to get so much help from this group. Roy Donkin (My new hero) sent me a private message alerting me to an ebay guitar which was listed as an O23 walnut non-cutaway model but with some confusion as it also stated the sticker inside the guitar was for an O25c. We both more or less agreed that from the photos it appeared to be an O25c with rosewood--not walnut--and it was infact a cutaway. I watched the auction and emailed the seller, queencityguitars with a question, which we then followed up with more emails back and forth. Bryan (queencityguitars@cinci.rr.com) was a GREAT communicator. I waited until the last few hours (Wednesday night) to get in on the bidding, but I felt it would soon go over my maximum bid. Not wanting to sit around and watch it slip away, I went to the gym. My wife logged onto my ebay account and raised my bid while I was away. I got home just in time to see that the auction was ending and I (or she) was the winner. I paid for the item and fired off another email to Bryan looking for shipping details. The following morning (Thursday) it dawned on me that since I am several days away from him the guitar would most likely sit in a trailer somewhere over the weekend in a cold climate. I again emailed Bryan asking if there was a way to upgrade the shipping even though we had completed the sale. He called me, we worked out the details, and it was delivered to me at work the next morning. All in all, it was a flawless transaction.

Now...The guitar itself...I actually let the package sit for a couple of hours (Torture) to make sure it warmed up gradually before I opened it. Once I did, I inspected the instrument and found it to be very much as Bryan had described. There are numerous tiny marks in the top, but it's cedar so it is to be expected. And when I say tiny, I mean they can't be seen unless you are really up close and looking for them. I bought this guitar to play it, not to save it in a museum. I would describe it as "gently used". After the journey I would have expected it to be out of tune. Not so. My first 15 minutes with it however, were NOT inspiring. At first the tone was ok, but not what I was expecting. Fingerstyle was unremarkable. Light to medium strumming produced a muddy blend of notes. My wife's mother asked me "So what's so special about that guitar?" At that moment I didn't really have an answer. I swear the guitar started to bloom in my hands over the next 45 minutes. Since then I have been playing every spare moment. The tone is exactly what I was hoping for. Sparkle and resonance all the way up the fretboard. And as an added bonus I get the aroma of the cedar as the guitar works. It just meets every expectation.

My wife asked me if she should sleep on the couch to make room for the guitar....Yesterday, she asked me if I gave it a "good morning hug" yet.

I played the guitar after I got home from my part time job as a bouncer this morning until 5 am. I thought my fingertips were heavily calloused...I'm playing so much they feel like they're gonna bleed. And I don't care! I am exploring and creating new melodies. This is pretty close to heaven.

There now. Aren't you sorry you asked?

[billv]

I didn't ask, but I am glad you posted the rest of the story!

Not suprised at your experience. I think the tone of a Lowden takes some learning, and it takes a little time to figure out how to "work it".

And don't forget to try some different types of strings. Sometimes can make a huge difference.

[royd]

Well all I can say is that I'm glad I turned out to be a hero rather than a... whatever else I could have been ;)

I'm looking forward to hearing more abut the gaitar as the two of you bond.

roy

[ceyuh]

I'm looking forward to hearing more abut the gaitar as the two of you bond.

roy

I'm sure I won't be able to keep my thoughts to myself for long...I've started on a few new melodies. They just seem to be falling out of the guitar as we go. This is unlike anything I've experienced before. I like it.:AOK

[riffmeister]

sounds like a great honeymoon. I wish you long-term happiness! :)

[ceyuh]

We're certainly getting to know each other...

Now I need to once again prevail upon the wiser members here to ask if anyone knows the correct location and procedure for installing a strap button on the heel of the neck. I am not willing to do it myself without EXPLICIT instructions. The nearest luthier of high regard is about 80 miles away. I read somewhere that there is potential for disaster on these guitars is if isn't done just so. I'll certainly take the ride if the general consensus is that a pro needs to do this.

Thanks again!

[billv]

Here's a pic from Frets.com that shows a good place to install a strap button on a Lowden (the guitar is not a lowden in the pic):

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/StrapButton/StrapButtonViews/heel.JPG

This is the position I installed a button on my 035. A couple of things to note:

1. I used a satin black, slightly smaller button, which I found to be much more attractive than the one in the pic.
2. The position I selected is ever so slightly to the left of the one in the pic. This provides just a little more room for the strap to fit.
3. Be sure you drill a pilot hole before screwing the button in.
4. Check out the strap buttons on this page. Pretty cool! http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Bridges+and+Pins&NameProdHeader=Mickelson+Bone+%26+Ivory

If you haven't already, I would recommend checking out the Yahoo Lowden-L group. Lots of great advice there and George Lowden weighs in on topics every now and then. If you do a message search, you will find several discussions of strap button placement.

[billv]

Sorry. Don't mean to be a pest, but here's one more pic of a Lowden strap button placement:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/papatar/Lowden/100_0220.jpg

[ceyuh]

Sorry. Don't mean to be a pest, but here's one more pic of a Lowden strap button placement:


Your input is MUCH appreciated. Gorgeous guitar, by the way.