Mahogany Guitars

[Steve L]

We had a small thread going before the crash regarding mahogany guitars. It started when I asked if anyone knew about the Collings Varnish D-1.
In any event, I've been looking at a few Collings', Huss and Dalton's, Martin's, etc. for a few weeks now. Now I'm wondering why I never paid attention to mahogany guitars before. Nice bottom, clearer top, less muddy than rosewood...
I know there are lots of mahogany fans around....any negatives? Any models to check out....or avoid?
Thanks.

[Steve L]

Here's a quick follow up to my original post....
I have actually narrowed down my "shopping" to Huss and Dalton and Collings. Anybody willing to make any comparisons regarding playability, tone, etc. on those two makers? Or any other I should consider?
Also, do we really need Adirondack tops on Mahogany guitars--or is that just the "latest thing?"
Thanks!

[fretnot]

Steve,

From my personal experiences, Collings guitars with Adirondack tops are killer. I actually sold a Collings with a Sitka top to purchase one with an Adirondack top. I compared MANY guitars side by side in one day, including Collings, Huss and Dalton, Beourgious, Santa Cruz, and Martin. I fell in love with a Collings CW Dread, but it was a bit outta my price range. I ended up with the Martin D-18 GE. The mahgany back/sides and Adirondack top were just rediculous. I have since sold that guitar because the large old school V neck hurt my wrist, but it was really nice. I sold a Collings D3 (rosewood back/sides, Sitka top) because it was just missing something for me. I now have a Goodall CJ with mahogany back and sides and a Adirondack top again (should be here next week), as that combo just "works" for me better than Rosewood. Hope that helps a little!

[6120]

I own a Collings D1A varnish and it is an exceptional guitar. I also have a Martin D18 authentic and a Martin D18GE. The Collings is voiced stronger on the treble side while the Martin is voiced stronger on the bass side of things. Having an Adirondack top seems to(for me) makes the guitar "cut" better in live jams and seems to create a sharper tone in general. Sitka sounds "sweeter" to my ears. Do not overlook the D18GE, I have one that Dan Lashbrook modified(removed popsicle brace,taller frets, nut and bridge) and does not take a backseat to any mahogany guitar I've played and it is priced right. I would look at used D18GE's as the new ones may be shipped with cedar or mahogany necks wereas the older ones definately have mahogany necks. They sound great and if you buy it right very little cost of ownership.

[George H]

Got my first mahogany acoustic recently. Larrivee SD50. Killer warm,
woody tone w/ plenty of bottom w/o flubbing out & very articulate.

It's a cannon too. Louder than both my Martins & my Taylor too.

I had to buy it after playing it one time at GC. I justified the purchase by
knowing that I hadn't yet owned a mahogany.

This was one of the best impulse buys I've ever made.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/57GLDTP/SD501.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/57GLDTP/SD502.jpg


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/57GLDTP/SD504.jpg

GH:)

[Gazza]

Hi Steve, I was always a rosewood guy until I demoed a Collings D1A. I then bought a D1A! Liking mahogany so much, one month later I bought a Goodall D with mahogany/adirondack. Yet again another A+ mahogany experience.

I'm now convinced mahogany is the best choice for an acoustic!

I don't mean this as a plug but due to financial obligations I am now selling my Goodall. If you have interest let me know. I think Goodall does the best job with mahogany. Those who have played a mahogany Goodall will know what I'm talking about!

[stephenT]

Collings does wonderful things with mahogany. Had an OM1 that was stellar.

[Chiba]

I have a Larrivee that is ALL mahogany, it's one of the best sounding acoustic 6-strings I have ever owned. It can be a little tough to mic up, because what sounds perfect to your ears at 3 or 4' away doesn't always sound as good with a mic 6 to 10" away, but once you hit the sweet spot... it's ... um, sweet :)

--chiba

[Steve L]

WOW--this is very interesting to me. Why I've never even tried a mahogany guitar until recently amazes me!! I always went right for the rosewood (and Koa). It seems there are a LOT of mahogany players around.
Is it my imagination, because I've gotten interested now, but is this becoming a more popular tonewood lately--that is more popular than it has been? And, more expensive?
I guess I still have some shopping to do. Never played a Larrivee or a Goodall. The Collings D-1 has jumped out for me. I'll go back and A/B it with the Adirondack top. The Huss and Dalton seems to be a possible "sleeper" in the bunch, too.
(If I do anything, I'll post my progress here. But it might take a while!)
Thanks much to all of you. VERY helpful!

[TravisE]

I'll take Mahogany almost every time. Granted, it's always gonna come down to the guitar....they can't all be good ones. However, when you've got a good Mahogany guitar, you can feel it. They're very strong and loud. Adirondak certainly makes them sweeter too. I've told make people that the D1A-V that I played simply should not sound as good as it does for a new guitar. I've never played a new guitar that sounded that good right out of the box. When these things open up and get some age on 'em, they're gonna be pre-war quality...and better in some instances.

[MichaelK]

>> Anybody willing to make any comparisons regarding playability, tone, etc. on those two makers? Or any other I should consider?

Uh, which do YOU like better?

>> Also, do we really need Adirondack tops on Mahogany guitars--or is that just the "latest thing?"

I'm not sure I understand the question... "really need..." You can get mahogany guitars with other tops.

The Collings dreads that I've played that were real monsters, tone cannons, have been mahogany/adirondack. Usually 12-fret, but I think one I played last week was 13-fret.

Not every guitar should be a monster tone cannon, IMO. Smaller guitars, or even other dread designs sometimes sound better with other wood combinations.

[nashvillesteve]

I have a GREAT Bourgeois OM-18 style guitar... it's got mahogany and sounds great for fingerpicking. Not 3-D sounding like some of the high end fancier wood guitars, where it sounds like the high end and bass are coming from different places, but a great sound on tap. Great bass response, but not the dreadnaught chunk sound we all still like. It's an incredible fingerstyle acoustic, great for blues, I have had several offers for people to buy it... sorry!

[Steve L]

Hi Michael K-
I have tried both and have liked them both. But I haven't had enough experience to have a favorite...yet! What I was asking for is what other people's experience are with the guitars. Sometimes when you get a guitar home or play with it, it's a bit different than sitting in a guitar store plucking out "Blackbird" or something. I felt that both the Collings and Huss and Dalton guitars had great tone, volume, and better necks than the other guitars I have seen/played. Frankly, I own two Breedloves and a Kinscherff, and the Collings and Huss and Daltons play/sound/look/feel MUCH different than both of "my brands."
Also, my question regarding Adirondack and whether or not we need them is that I know (and I assume you have noticed, too) that tops go in and out of style. For example, I remember about 15 years ago, builders were prominently featuring Englemann tops. Now, they seem to be kind of off-the-market. Also, I know when one of my guitars was being built, Adirondack was not as popular as it is now and I was advised against it! I have spoken with some guitar builders since then who say that, frankly, it's a matter of personal taste rather than quality. So my question about whether we "need" Adirondack is because I am wondering if the brighter tone it's supposed to yield is necessary with the brighter sounding mahogany.
Actually, I'm not really looking for a cannon. Mostly for light picking and strumming in a small ensemble. I'm find I like the sound/tone of the mahogany guitars now. I like the clarity.
What Collings is a 13 fret? One of the D's?
Thanks!

[jayn]

Here's a quick follow up to my original post....
I have actually narrowed down my "shopping" to Huss and Dalton and Collings. Anybody willing to make any comparisons regarding playability, tone, etc. on those two makers? Or any other I should consider?
Also, do we really need Adirondack tops on Mahogany guitars--or is that just the "latest thing?"
Thanks!

My three favorite brands are Martin, Collings and H&D. For some reason, most of the others just don't work for me (although, I haven't tried many of the very small builders that follow the Martin style). Of the three, right now, I'd say that H&D are my favorites. But, the other two are stellar (although, with Martin, you need to look a little harder sometimes).

As far as comparisons...using a non-scientific sample. H&D's seem to be a little more supple to play (maybe 25.4" scale vs. Collings 25.5", although I have a hard time imagining such a small difference would matter), they are built lighter, and aren't quite as loud or in your face tonally. The necks on the two brands are very similar and the standard frets are basically the same. Both make a vintage neck, although the H&D isn't nearly as bulky as the Collings.

If you are moving from a rosewood guitar to a mahogany, or adding a mahogany, I'd suggest a Martin D-18GE (or D-18A is you've got the ducats) or a H&D DS or a Collings D1 as a mid point step. If you want the full on clarity of mahogany with lots of fundamental in the sound, I'd go Collings D1A or H&D TD-M. I'm sure the H&D DM is great too, but I've never heard one.

As far as adi vs. sitka. I hear adi as much tighter, punchier, and more fundamental, less overtones. I understand adi loosens up over time and needs to be played harder to loosen up.

My preference was always towards sitka/rosewood for general strumming and messing around. But, now that I've been playing fiddle tunes, I'm looking for an adi/mahogany guitar (although, I'd consider the right adi/rosewood). I want something with a tighter, clearer tone with more punch and volume.

[Florida Joe]

I have a Larrivee that is ALL mahogany, it's one of the best sounding acoustic 6-strings I have ever owned. It can be a little tough to mic up, because what sounds perfect to your ears at 3 or 4' away doesn't always sound as good with a mic 6 to 10" away, but once you hit the sweet spot... it's ... um, sweet :)

--chiba

What body style of Larrivee do you have? I am trying to figure out if an OM would be adequate for someone who is a light picker. I am having troubles with the wider Dred body.

And I apologize for a sidetrack with this thread.

[jgm]

These are my fav's these days. The D1A's can be really amazing as can the D18 GE's. I have a late 90's J45 that jsut sounds great (I should say had - my daughters seem to have hijacked this one). I was also REALLY impressed with an all mahogany Martin D I played the other day - insane tone for $700ish. Makes me really wan to hear an all koa dread or slope shoulder.

[BBHollowbody]

I am a big fan of Gibson's mahogany guitars. My Woody Guthrie Southern Jumbo is an incredible guitar (luthier select woods, 24 3/4 scale). I just played some gigs on it with a bluegrass band last week. I normally play banjo when it comes to bluegrass, but needed to play guitar on a few songs with this band. the other band members commented on the rich tone of the guitar. Most bluegrassers aren't used to hearing Gibson guitars, but they were quite impressed with this guitar. It has a warm midrange and a rich bass (but not boomy). Highs are crisp but not overly bright. I love this guitar and it keeps getting better.

[Srvwannab]

My new favorite acoustic is my Taylor 510-L9- I have one w/ the cutaway and the electronics and one without, and I love them both.

I don't consider myself much of an expert on acoustics, but to this untrained acoustic ear, I prefer Mahogany to Rosewood.

[Fripperton]

I'm a big fan of mahogany. My favorite acoustic is my old 1958 Epiphone Texan and I have a CFox Dreadnaught with a mahogany back and sides that just kills. Loud, great projection and a very robust tone.
Here's the Texan

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/vincegear/Texan/z58Texan.JPG (http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/vincegear/Texan/58Texan.JPG)

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/vincegear/Texan/z58Texanrr.JPG (http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/vincegear/Texan/58Texanrr.JPG)

[r9player]

I guess to me most mahogany guitars I tried were to bright and sounded a bit thin. And if I wanted a bright chimey guitar I always liked Maple and KOA better then Mahogany. On the rosewood side, I do agree that Indian can get a little muddy sometimes or bassy. But I went the Brazilian rosewood route.
Mahogany though is not a shabby tonewood at all, I am just more extreme in what I like.

[Steve L]

Still in my quest! Thanks for all the responses.

I played a very nice Collings D-1 the other day. No Adirondack. Clear, even tone...nice neck.
That leads me to my question. I have noticed that a lot of the mahogany guitars have 1-3/4" necks. (I'm trying to stay with the 1-11/16th if possible.) And I've been told that is because they are intended for Bluegrass players. Hmmm. I always thought the "wider necks" were for fingerstyle players--perhaps I've been wrong. In any event, are these mahogany guitars really essentially flatpickers' guitars or are they suitable for someone like me who plays mostly with bare fingers---occasionally with a flat pick. Or is that really determined more by the body style and less by the tonewood? For my personal taste, the D-1 sounded and played great!
Thanks.

[r9player]

Hey Steve, I'd say if it works for you, it works for you!
Obviously most flatpickers like a D and "fingerstyle" tend to prefer a smaller body but that is not a requirement. If you can play both 1 3/4" and 1 11/16" you'll have a lot more choice 1 3/4" seems to be the current way most guitars are build .. or you could custom order ...

[MichaelK]

There's no hard and fast rule about what's best for anyone, but generally fingerstyle players prefer a little more high-mid range and less bass response – which means smaller body, narrower waist – and a wide neck. A balanced sound, like a 000 or OM. If you strum these guitars hard with a flatpick they tend to top out, sound weak. Big, boomy dreads are more suited to flatpicking. But a real player can make anything sound good.

I've heard/seen both mahogany fingerstyle guitars and dreads.

Y'know, you worry so much about what woods "should be" used for what. Buy the guitar that looks up at you and says, "Daddy." ;)

[Steve L]

Y'know, you worry so much about what woods "should be" used for what. Buy the guitar that looks up at you and says, "Daddy." ;)


That might be the best advise yet. I actually know that....maybe I needed someone to remind me!
Thanks.

[Grun]

Love my SCGC all mahogany (including -especially- top) 'herringbone' OM! Comfortable to hold, short scale, sweet sounding and what a looker!

[scottiejohnson]

I'm a big fan of mahogany. Hummingbird is my weapone of choice. Never had a change to play a Collings, but I think that's a good thing. I don't need another new acoustic yet.

[retro]

Buy the guitar that looks up at you and says, "Daddy." ;)


Brraaaaawwwwaaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Good one...

[royd]

I play Lowdens which are very different from the guitars you're looking at but I did have some experience with cedar topped O size Lowdens with mahogany and rosewood backs that may be helpful. When my rosewood O was stolen, a friend loaned me a mahogany b/s O while my replacement was being built. I had the mahogany guitar for about 6 months.
After living with the mahogany guitar I wasn't sure I would want to part with it but when the rosewood arrived, it was still me.
I would characterize the Lowden mahogany guitar as very forward sounding, brash and in your face, aggressive and assertive. The rosewood was richer and more subtle. I came to see the mahogany guitar as being like a Victoria Secret model - it's beauty jumped out at you while the rosewood guitar was more like a classic beauty, I thought Catherine Deneuve. It wasn't so obvious or assertive but was just as arresting once you really listened with even more to discover.
All that said, a mahogany D style guitar, especially if flatpicking, sounds like an obvious choice for someone who wants a sound that will jump out and smack you in the face.

[jayn]

Still in my quest! Thanks for all the responses.

I played a very nice Collings D-1 the other day. No Adirondack. Clear, even tone...nice neck.
That leads me to my question. I have noticed that a lot of the mahogany guitars have 1-3/4" necks. (I'm trying to stay with the 1-11/16th if possible.) And I've been told that is because they are intended for Bluegrass players. Hmmm. I always thought the "wider necks" were for fingerstyle players--perhaps I've been wrong. In any event, are these mahogany guitars really essentially flatpickers' guitars or are they suitable for someone like me who plays mostly with bare fingers---occasionally with a flat pick. Or is that really determined more by the body style and less by the tonewood? For my personal taste, the D-1 sounded and played great!
Thanks.

I think a D1 would be a fantastic guitar for an all around-er. It's rich enough to play alone and loud and clear enough to jam with.

A mahogany guitar is not limited to flatpicking. The "daddy" comment really applies. It's whatever floats your boat.

I wouldn't worry about neck width either. One size doesn't fit all -whatever is most comfortable for you. I used to prefer 1 11/16". That is what is on my Martin D (sitka/rosewood). I liked that for all around playing. Then, I started taking flatpicking lessons and found that I'd rather have ad/mahogany D for the clarity and 1 3/4" for the extra finger space. So, I'm keeping my eyes open for that type of guitar. But, I think you would find a real diverse set of opinions on preferred nut width amongst the bluegrass players. I think I've played more 1 11/16" D1's over the years by a ratio of probably 3 to 1.

[Steve L]

OK--I have definitely decided that mahogany is "for me."
NOW I am looking into a H&D Custom DS. Or a Collings CJ.
I got even more inspired to check these slope shouldered models out when I realized that a lot of Sir Paul's stuff is done on a mahog. slope shouldered guitar. NOT that I have to have his same guitar...it's just that it opened my eyes to look at things other than Dreds. And, I resolved to go with a thinner neck than 1 3/4.
Might be the right shape and wood for my style. Not too interested in the "flatpicking" capabilities of a Dread. And I have a nice small bodied guitar already. I'm going to have to find these guitars somewhere to check them out....see how they sound/feel/look.
Anybody have any experience with either of these models?

[tedm]

Hi Steve,

I've had an all mahogony d-15 for 7 years or so. I don't play it much, but when I purchased it I played it along several taylors, takamines, and larivees. The sound is unique, and is loudest in the dreadnaught version. No electronics or fancy inlays, but a great playing guitar with a lifetime warranty to the original owner and HSC included. I'd definitely recommend you check these out. They also have a Spruce top version at about the same price, both are well under $1K street price.

[jayn]

OK--I have definitely decided that mahogany is "for me."
NOW I am looking into a H&D Custom DS. Or a Collings CJ.
Anybody have any experience with either of these models?

I've played a few Collings CJ's and they never made much of an impression on me. To be fair, I was probably itching to get at the traditional shaped dread though.

I've also played a few H&D DS's and I think they are fantastic. If I could get over the $3500-ish retail price for a new one with an Ad top, I'd probably order one right away. I know I'll sell it at some point though and it's a $1000 depreciation hit (there was one on eBay a week or two ago...just like what you want...went for $2400 or $2500, IIRC).

[Timmo]

My brother owns two Huss & Dalton's........their "Traditional Dreadnought" in rosewood and their Gibson J-45 slope shouldered model in mahogany and both are wonderful and I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite.
As for builder's...Collings and Huss & Dalton would be the main ones I would be considering if in the market.
Simply could not go wrong with either I would think.

[patpark]

mahogany is one of my favorites as well. warm, lots of sustain

[btdvox]

One thing i see many people saying here is always go with Adirondack, etc etc. I beleive the top is best with what luthier you go with, It seems collings, Bourgeois make awesome guitars with adi tops, and i myself find Larrivees and taylors etc better with sitka. They both have differnet style of sound, but it really depends on what luthier/maker you go with, lots of people like englemann also, i find its more suited for finger picking, and adi is more for strumming and flat picking and sitka is in between the two,- lastly adi and sitka take the longest to break in,

[Amp Nut]

Mahogany sounds too brittle in the top strings for me. I'll take the warmth of rosewood.

[johneeeveee]

i'm down with the all mahogany gits as well. i own an 8 year old martin 00-15 that's probably seen 1000 shows and flown all over into different climates and it is rock solid and sounds fantastic (incredibly balanced and warm... records like a dream). i bought it just as soon as they reissued them so i could leave my collings om2h at home, and now the martin is my favorite guitar... best 600 bucks i ever spent.
peace - jv

[bek]

My 1970s Guild D25. Haven't played a guitar I liked as well at any price. A guy with an upper model Guild (spruce top, ebony board, rosewood) offered to swap me any time I wanted. No way. Huge tone, warm and rich and loud. Maybe it's just the older Guilds, but I would sure check out an all-mahogany (except the fingerboard!) guitar if I could.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/bek1a/Guild1.jpg

[alainguitars]

Played a 1946 Martin 0017, the guitar just killed. Not as complex as some others but loud and clear. A songwriter's dream. May buy one tomorrow if my luthier gives it a thumbs up.

[Steve L]

One of the interesting thing to come out of this thread is the possibility of an all mahogany guitar! Never played one. Over the course of the time of this thread, I have actually tried several mahogany guitars and found them intriguing, yet I always come back to my Indian Rosewood, Koa, and Maple guitars. The Koa actually seems to be in the same family as the Mahogany in a way and the other 2 have their "voice" that I am very comfortable with. So, while I really liked the Collings and Huss & Dalton acoustic models (particularly the dreads), I ultimately gave up my search for a mahogany guitar for now. Perhaps some future date.....
It's been interesting to me how many people showed up as mahogany fans. I was ignorant for not ever trying one before! They DO have their unique tone and feel. Just not for me right now....
Hmmm. Maybe an all Mahogany small bodied guitar.....

[johneeeveee]

It's been interesting to me how many people showed up as mahogany fans. I was ignorant for not ever trying one before! They DO have their unique tone and feel. Just not for me right now....
Hmmm. Maybe an all Mahogany small bodied guitar.....

yeah, that's the ticket. all mahogany really shines with the 0 and 00 sized guitars. get yourself a martin 00-15 or 17, or a gibson L-00 or LG0.
you'll find sweet, warm and focused tone in a good one, and they record soooo much easier than larger guitars ;)