Boomerang Phrase sampler...what else

[hendrix2430]

Hi guys, I'm looking hard at a boomerang phrase sampler, but it's hard to find over here in europe. What other pieces of gear are similar in build quality and sound?

Thank you!

PS: those who own a boomerang, what can you say about it?

[blueprint]

I use an EH 16 sec delay. I don't think the features are the same, but it's usefull, easy to tame, and I believe it's less expensive too.

[drolling]

I've got a 'rang and it's a fun, flexible & easy-to-use looper - but it's pretty big & limited (memory/sample-time wise) compared to the newer Boss loop stations (RC20/20XL & RC50) or the DigiTech JamMan - both of which should be fairly easy to get a hold of in europe.

For all its clunky-funkiness, I still prefer the Boomerang, but if I were you I'd wait for the new, improved *stereo* Boomerang that's presently in the works.

In the meantime, you should check out loopers-delight.com for a ton of good reading & reviews of loopers/phrase samplers past & present.

[nashvillesteve]

I agree with Drolling. I am ready in every way except financially to get a stereo looper. Right now it's the E-H 2880 stereo 4 track looper, but it's really expensive and I would need the expansion pedal to use it via foot control, and huge. The next Boomerang is also in stereo with more loops than it had before, smaller and cheaper, so I have to at least wait and see what they've got cooking. The RC-50 is a cool unit (I have an RC-20), I would like to slave it to whatever looper I choose for my guitar setup (hope the 'Rang 2 has MIDI slave capability) and use the RC-50 to add keyboard and acoustic guitar loops, but that's pretty far out/off.

[PlexiBreath]

I like how sturdy the current model Boomerang looks. I'm sort of turned of by E-H products by the noise of the Holy Grail Reverb unit I just got and they don't look all that sturdy. But just now reading the Harmony Central reviews players are talking about the Boomerang being noisy. I don't wan't a noisy looper.

When is this new smaller, better, cheaper Boomerang coming out?

[SmoothFall]

You can order one online at www.americanmusical.com , they advertise those things all the time and they ship worldwide!

[drolling]

I like how sturdy the current model Boomerang looks. I'm sort of turned of by E-H products by the noise of the Holy Grail Reverb unit I just got and they don't look all that sturdy. But just now reading the Harmony Central reviews players are talking about the Boomerang being noisy. I don't wan't a noisy looper.

When is this new smaller, better, cheaper Boomerang coming out?No idea on the ETA of the new 'rang, but the old one IS built like a tank, w/big, sturdy controls that have held up for years under my size 13 cowboy boots..

The noise issues center around adjusting both the input and output levels correctly - not rocket surgery..plenty boneheads writing those HC reviews:rolleyes:

[jbro]

Boss RC-50 or RC-20XL, depending on how much time and how many features you need

Digitech Jam Man

Akai Headrush

EH 2880 and 16sec delay

Line6 DL4 has a very limited but useful looper

If you really want to get spendy, check out the Looperlative.

--

All of these surpass the Boomerang in terms of audio quality, and most have more recording time. I've owned a Boomerang+, Digitech Jamman, RC-20, DL-4, and now an RC-50. The Boomerang audio quality was horrible.. I liked the adjustable decay rate, but that's about it. The RC-20 and Jam Man are very similar.. I don't like the fact that you have to hold a pedal down for 2 seconds to access some features. The 2880 seems geared toward home use and practicing, not live looping. The 16sec delay is a delay box that just happens to do looping (sort of like the DL4 but with more features). The RC-50 is my favorite so far but there are a couple quirks and overlooked features IMO. The Looperlative seems like the best option for live looping, but A) it's about $1500, and B) you can't save loops, if that's something you wanted to do.

[hendrix2430]

thanks guys, I also found out about the Loop Junky from Z vex. How much looping time on this? What makes it attractive is the small size, and although expensive, the vibrato is an added bonus.

Is anyone using one of these?

[nashvillesteve]

I don't like the fact that you have to hold a pedal down for 2 seconds to access some features.
I have the RC-20 and it is kind of a PITA to do that. I'm keeping it (I could replace it with any mono looper I guess, but I use the passive mic input for my blues harp mic, which is nice), but it won't be my main looper for rhythm tracks/parts. It will be like my weird backwards guitar solo /screwing around with synth noises with looped parts looper or harmony parts to be played independently from the tracks.

The 2880 seems geared toward home use and practicing, not live looping.
There is an extension pedal that lets you step on everything to use it live. I think it's got track select/controls and octave down or something... of course, then you've got a lot of real estate taken up on the pedalboards and it's about $700 for both or so. If the new boomerang can match the audio quality (which is supposed to be pretty top-notch on the 2880) and being able to use it like a stereo four track, then I'll get it as is promised to be in stereo, lighter, cheaper and have more loops than the original Boomerang. For now, I'm just waiting. I also really like the slave/master MIDI time capabilities of the 2880 and RC-50, I hope the Boomerang does this as well. I almost would get the RC-50, except I have a stereo signal that needs to stay stereo, so on the 2880 I would have 2 inputs, which each get two tracks, which can be hard panned to the stereo outs to keep them separate, then it's like I get two tracks per amp (one is a guitar amp and the other one has a Leslie and a selectable POG/chord&notesustainer loop for organ sounds). A Boss guy on the phone said it can't do that, you can't control the input/output schemes that closely. But I would like to get one and slave it to the 2880 and use it for keyboard/acoustic guitar, still.

Here's the foot controller for the 2880:
http://images.misupply.com/products/original/Electro-Harmonix/402698.jpg

[BmoreTele]

thanks guys, I also found out about the Loop Junky from Z vex. How much looping time on this? What makes it attractive is the small size, and although expensive, the vibrato is an added bonus.

Is anyone using one of these?

The Loop Junky will do up to 20 seconds, one shot only, no SOS, and it is definitely lo fi. Here's a link to a thread with a link to a clip.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1295339&highlight=junky

:crazy

[coreybox]

Yeah, i owned a lo fi...and it is nothing like the 'rang. It is mostly just for ambient stuff.... laying down a rhythm and soloing over it just sounds like a big mess, especially with the amp set for anything other than super clean.

[drolling]

Something that I really like about the 'rang (and the old Lexicon JamMan, for that matter) is the way the loop can be set to decay naturally ('echo/delay', rather than 'sample' mode), with the most recent overdub sitting on top of the mix and the earliest layer eventually dissappearing completely.

The new generation Boss & DigiTech loopers may have 'CD quality' sampling rates, or whatever - but for live looping w/solo electric guitar, I end up w/a wall of noise after about 4 of 5 passes, max. There is, apparently, some "normalization" going on w/these new boxes, but it's still not like working w/a long delay line, where the loop keeps 'evolving' as new input replaces old.

But for 'one-man-band' applications, w/bass, drums, rhythm & lead guitar, the new loopers are far superior to my funky old Boomerang, no doubt.

As a funky old geezer, tho', I sometimes struggle to keep up w/the technology. You should see the taped-together, crusty old *word processor* I'm typing this on:rotflmao!!!

[StratAtak83]

Hi guys, I'm looking hard at a boomerang phrase sampler, but it's hard to find over here in europe. What other pieces of gear are similar in build quality and sound?

Thank you!

PS: those who own a boomerang, what can you say about it?

I have a boomerang v2 up for grabs , I have no problem posting it over to europe.. let me know if your interested.

[shikawkee]

I have a new Digitech JamMan and it's sounds pretty durn good. I also have a Loop Junky but as someone else already said I mainly use it for ambient stuff.
(I really dig the simplicity and unique sound though)

[jbro]

I almost would get the RC-50, except I have a stereo signal that needs to stay stereo, so on the 2880 I would have 2 inputs, which each get two tracks, which can be hard panned to the stereo outs to keep them separate, then it's like I get two tracks per amp (one is a guitar amp and the other one has a Leslie and a selectable POG/chord&notesustainer loop for organ sounds). A Boss guy on the phone said it can't do that, you can't control the input/output schemes that closely.

I might be misunderstanding you, but it seems like you should be able to do that with the RC-50 too..

If you use the left and right instrument inputs and record in stereo mode, your hard left and right will remain seperate in each loop. I use a similar setup on one of my guitars - magnetic pickups in one input and out to a tube amp, and piezo pickup into the other and out to the PA. You end up with 3 independant loops for each amp.

On top of that, each loop can be set to go to the main L&R outputs or the sub L&R outputs.. you could theoretically have 4 amps set up, or two amps and a stereo PA feed, and assign each loop to whatever pair you want. You can also control panning of each loop in real time with an expression pedal, so you could record a mono signal and then pan it back and forth between your two amps while it's looping back.

And the assignment settings are stored in the patch, so you can have a few different patches set up with different routing setups for various needs. It's a pretty well thought-out box, with just a couple quirks that hopefully can be addressed in software updates.

[dotlikeimpact]

One could always use a laptop with a midi foot controller...

[nashvillesteve]

I might be misunderstanding you, but it seems like you should be able to do that with the RC-50 too..

If you use the left and right instrument inputs and record in stereo mode, your hard left and right will remain seperate in each loop. I use a similar setup on one of my guitars - magnetic pickups in one input and out to a tube amp, and piezo pickup into the other and out to the PA. You end up with 3 independant loops for each amp.

On top of that, each loop can be set to go to the main L&R outputs or the sub L&R outputs.. you could theoretically have 4 amps set up, or two amps and a stereo PA feed, and assign each loop to whatever pair you want. You can also control panning of each loop in real time with an expression pedal, so you could record a mono signal and then pan it back and forth between your two amps while it's looping back.

And the assignment settings are stored in the patch, so you can have a few different patches set up with different routing setups for various needs. It's a pretty well thought-out box, with just a couple quirks that hopefully can be addressed in software updates.

Well, the Boss guy I spoke with hadn't gotten to try one out yet, nice guy though (no email from him in months, however!).

I can't remember exactly, but I think I may have originally asked him if I could plug in my stereo guitar and have R and L remain independent through input and output stages on a loop to each, then have the 3rd loop work from a Mic or mini-jack input or both (acoustic guitar & keyboard) with output to a PA. Maybe I've screwed this all up... my apologies if I posted incorrect information, I haven't kept up wtih the RC-50 much since planning to slave one to another looper specifically for acoustic guitar & keyboard. Also, the drum machine wouldn't sound good through my amp probably (never put a drum machine through a Leslie cabinet), does it have a separate output to a PA? Either way, you can get more channels to loop from wtih two loopers... I may have confused myself, I need to try one out but can't afford to do so or fit my rig in my car to take to a guitar center... :)

[jbro]

Well, the Boss guy I spoke with hadn't gotten to try one out yet, nice guy though (no email from him in months, however!).

I can't remember exactly, but I think I may have originally asked him if I could plug in my stereo guitar and have R and L remain independent through input and output stages on a loop to each, then have the 3rd loop work from a Mic or mini-jack input or both (acoustic guitar & keyboard) with output to a PA. Maybe I've screwed this all up... my apologies if I posted incorrect information, I haven't kept up wtih the RC-50 much since planning to slave one to another looper specifically for acoustic guitar & keyboard. Also, the drum machine wouldn't sound good through my amp probably (never put a drum machine through a Leslie cabinet), does it have a separate output to a PA? Either way, you can get more channels to loop from wtih two loopers... I may have confused myself, I need to try one out but can't afford to do so or fit my rig in my car to take to a guitar center... :)

I had a similar experience when I asked a guy at GC about the RC-50 (who "owned one and knew everything about it")... he told me it couldn't fade loops in/out, couldn't pan loops, etc. After about 2 minutes with the manual I found out it did both. There's a lot to this box, and I don't think the salesreps or even most folks who own it really know much about how it works.. it's new still.

One thing the RC-50 CAN'T do, which I was pretty bummed about, is route the inputs seperately. ie, you CAN'T monitor one input through the main output, and another input through the submix. All of the inputs (L&R instrument, XLR mic, and 1/8") are summed into a stereo pair (which can be recorded to whatever loop you want, and that loop can be assigned to either the main out or sub out - but as for the "live" monitoring, all of the inputs are merged into one pair of outs).

With some clever routing and a parallel mixer setup, you would be able to
accomplish what you want to do with the drum machine/keyboard/guitar, but really, 2 MIDI synched loopers is the way to do it IMO.

[drezdin]

maneco loopers
http://manecolooper.tripod.com/


dt / spltrcl

Hey splatt,
Did you get your maneco?

[blindwilliemudd]

Hey splatt,
Did you get your maneco?

Is their a way to just play a loop one time like with the DL-4?

It seems all of these units are designed for a specific application, and you have to learn the quirks to push them. With the dl-4 i found a technique that allowed me to play symmetrical solos that were the same forwards and backwards (think hendrix meets revolution #9)....none of the other units save for the boomerang it looks (tho its the only one ive never used) like can do this.

I just ordered a Rc-50 from the store i work at, and was dissapointed to find these roland units keep getting quirkier.

[Moe45673]

The RC-20XL (and I'd assume RC-50) allows you to save any loop as a "one shot" loop, which means it'll only play it once :)

[jazzgitter]

The RC20XL allows you to fade out when you hit the stop pedal. I use that feature a lot.

[jbro]

Is their a way to just play a loop one time like with the DL-4?

It seems all of these units are designed for a specific application, and you have to learn the quirks to push them. With the dl-4 i found a technique that allowed me to play symmetrical solos that were the same forwards and backwards (think hendrix meets revolution #9)....none of the other units save for the boomerang it looks (tho its the only one ive never used) like can do this.

I just ordered a Rc-50 from the store i work at, and was dissapointed to find these roland units keep getting quirkier.

There is a one-shot mode for each loop. You can even assign an external footswitch OR one of the onboard footswitches to toggle it in real time so you can go back and forth between normal and one-shot modes. You can do the same thing with reverse.

You can also set each loop to fade in, fade out, or both, and set the fade time per patch. The maximum fade time is something like 15-20 seconds, so it's pretty versitile in that regard.

[guitarpkr67]

One could always use a laptop with a midi foot controller...

Have you done this? What software did you use?

[jbro]

Have you done this? What software did you use?

I've done this with Ableton Live, and there's also a looper built into Guitar Rig 2.. cool for around the house but I certainly wouldn't want to gig with a laptop. Setup time, stability issues, and of course you have to worry about someone spilling beer/coffee/vomit on your computer. Maybe if you're on a big stage... but to me a dedicated piece of hardware is the only way to go for gigging.

[nashvillesteve]

Is their a way to just play a loop one time like with the DL-4?

It seems all of these units are designed for a specific application, and you have to learn the quirks to push them. With the dl-4 i found a technique that allowed me to play symmetrical solos that were the same forwards and backwards (think hendrix meets revolution #9)....none of the other units save for the boomerang it looks (tho its the only one ive never used) like can do this.

I dunno. That's why I have assignable input and output to my RC-20 that will play un-synchronized little parts either over or into a loop recorded by whichever stereo looper I wind up with... It's got my blues harp mic on the extra input as well, which will be a fun thing to activate on one-shot within a blues tune...

[blindwilliemudd]

There is a one-shot mode for each loop. You can even assign an external footswitch OR one of the onboard footswitches to toggle it in real time so you can go back and forth between normal and one-shot modes. You can do the same thing with reverse.

You can also set each loop to fade in, fade out, or both, and set the fade time per patch. The maximum fade time is something like 15-20 seconds, so it's pretty versitile in that regard.

I guess the problem i found with the boss things is the foot tapping...the dl-4 allows me to do this in 4 foottaps, whereas the boss isnt quite the same....it takes me a bar of a solo just to find the little buttons on a darkened stage....not exactly what i call practical.

i would like my functions on a live looper footswitchable (I know you can add footswitches to the rc-50, but still theres a few functions Id use that arent...go figure.)

[nashvillesteve]

I guess the problem i found with the boss things is the foot tapping...the dl-4 allows me to do this in 4 foottaps, whereas the boss isnt quite the same....it takes me a bar of a solo just to find the little buttons on a darkened stage....not exactly what i call practical.

i would like my functions on a live looper footswitchable (I know you can add footswitches to the rc-50, but still theres a few functions Id use that arent...go figure.)
http://images.misupply.com/products/original/Electro-Harmonix/402698.jpg

[blindwilliemudd]

http://images.misupply.com/products/original/Electro-Harmonix/402698.jpg

ha....point taken