Question For All You recording Buffs

[Bloozman]

My band recorded a Demo Cd today...After the Engineer mixed the songs, he recorded them onto a CD. The mix we heard coming off the recording boird was great, but once that was copied onto a CD, and then played on a car stereo etc...The mix was different...very heavy bass which overpowered all the other instruments so badly that I had to re adjust the car stereo and had to take all the bass off and turn the treble up etc...You get the idea...What went wrong between the console and the CD??

[elambo]

Car stereos are not good references. One of two things probably happened - a) his monitors don't have enough bass so he's putting too much in to compensate, b) your car stereo has too much bass.

The way to know for sure is to listen to a CD from a band with money (not an indy label) with a similar sound as your band and see how much bass THAT album has. If it's cool in your car, ask to listen on the engineer's monitors.

Or post an MP3 of one of the songs and I'll take a listen here.

[Bloozman]

I took the CD home and played it on my PC, and my home stereo...Same Result as the Car Stereo...Too Much Bass!!..Then I played a quality CD on my home stereo, and set the EQ..then played the CD we made...Too Much Bass, and of all things...Too much high hat also...something went wrong from the console to the CD?...any other suggestions?..Thanks Bloozman

[GuitslingerTim]

I took the CD home and played it on my PC, and my home stereo...Same Result as the Car Stereo...Too Much Bass!!..Then I played a quality CD on my home stereo, and set the EQ..then played the CD we made...Too Much Bass, and of all things...Too much high hat also...something went wrong from the console to the CD?...any other suggestions?..Thanks Bloozman

Tell the engineer his mix sucks--you're paying for it, you might as well have it your way. :D

[wolf9309]

nothing went wrong from the console to the CD. Something went wrong between the monitors and your engineer's ears. The first thing to keep in mind is that no speakers sound the same, so any competent engineer will know how his speakers will sound compared to other ones and will compensate the mix to make it sound as good as possible on most sets of speakers.

[stratovarius]

Car stereos are not good references.

That's for sure, but I've read a few stories about bands ensuring that the mix works well on car stereos. Are you expecting to get air play?

;)

[elambo]

That's for sure, but I've read a few stories about bands ensuring that the mix works well on car stereos. Are you expecting to get air play?

;)

Obviously, but I think I was casually trying to say that he needs to make sure that his car's eq isn't set to the smiley face, or the bass knob on 10. I used to listen to every single mix I'd ever do in my car, but no longer need to since I've learned what my control room monitors sound like and how they'll translate to other systems.

Now after reading the poster's reply, I doubt that the engineer who mixed the songs has the same accurate paradigm for HIS room. Tell him your concerned that the bass is out of whach as compared to CDs you've purchased and get his reaction. If he's competent he'll agree and offer to remix one song to your satisfaction, then the rest of them.

[gassyndrome]

I saw some thing once about a hip hop producer (jermain dupri perhaps?) who keeps a fully loaded Bentley in his studio, so he doesnt have to waste time walking back and forth to the carpark while checking his mixes :eek:

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

The way to know for sure is to listen to a CD from a band with money (not an indy label) with a similar sound as your band and see how much bass THAT album has. If it's cool in your car, ask to listen on the engineer's monitors.

it is always prudent to listen to commercial CDs over various systems to find a benchmark. ear fatigue can be a debilitating handicap that can result in poor mixes as can an engineer who does not have a set of properly set up, fairly neutral monitors. by keeping an SPL meter handy to make sure that the mixing volumes don't escalate and using commercial CDs to act as a benchmark should be standard operating procedure.
prior to CDs, people used to listen to real, un-amplified instruments to act as a benchmark. imagine...

[onemind]

I used to have a tendency to pull back treble after long mixing sessions, especially on the NS10s the fatigue would make high end sound very unpleasant, eventually I learned to take frequent 'rests' Of course checking other references is very important. So how does the mix sound side by side with some favorite recordings?

[covert]

Go back to the studio. Bring a cd that you like the sound of. Play it and listen to how it sounds on the studio's monitors. Tweak your mixes for similar spectrum. Repeat as needed, along with checks on other sytems.

[billdurham]

If you mixed an entire CD of material in one session, I can gaurantee that ear fatigue was a big issue with the engineer. covert's suggestion is a good one.

BD

[Bloozman]

I called the studio, and the Engineer told me to bring back the master and he will re-do it. sounds like he wants to do the right thing...Ill let everyone know how it turns out..Thanks for all the tips, Im gonna try all of em...you guys are great...Bloozman

PS..funny thing as we didnt listen to the CD after it was burned till I got in the car...we should have, but I just figured what was on the console would automatically go onto the CD..That was my mistake...I guess you have to listen to the CD before ya leave!!!

[scottlr]

I agree with many of the above posts that you should bring a commercial CD that sounds like YOU want it to sound, and have him use it as reference.

I use my car stereo for mix testing, because that's where I listen to music the most, so I know how it sounds. I did put all of the tone controls to the neutral slot. I'll A/B my CD with a commercial CD in the car as well.

[loudboy]

PS..funny thing as we didnt listen to the CD after it was burned till I got in the car...we should have, but I just figured what was on the console would automatically go onto the CD..That was my mistake...I guess you have to listen to the CD before ya leave!!!

What was on the console DID automatically go to the CD. His monitoring was inaccurate, or he was tired, or any of a host of other problems...

Send him samples of similar stuff that you think sounds good, and tell him to try and match the tonal balance. This may not be entirely possible, due to the fact that every band/studio/engneer has a different sound, but he should be able to get the basic low end to high end balance more to your liking.

Loudboy

[elambo]

What was on the console DID automatically go to the CD.

Most likely, unless he's one of the few still recording analog to the CD player, in which case he could have some processing happening in between. Doubtfull. Prob a mix issue.

[Pearly Gator]

After the recording comes the mixing. After the mixing comes the mastering. I never do both and have another engineer master my mixed recordings. A second set of ears cuts down on the affect of ear fatigue.

Was the engineer a bass player perchance? Forgive me, that was uncalled for. :D

PG

[stratovarius]

Was the engineer a bass player perchance? Forgive me, that was uncalled for. :D


Don't be too quick to judge!

Stratovarius's hierarchy of egos:

Singers
Guitar Players
Drummers
Bass Players

:D

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

Don't be too quick to judge!

Stratovarius's hierarchy of egos:

Singers
Guitar Players
Drummers
Bass Players

:D

so that would put singer/guitar player/sonwriters where?
c'mon it takes a certain amount of ego just to be able to DO that.
me?
i'm a self loathing narcissist.

[MichaelK]

i'm a self loathing narcissist.

Great line, I'm stealing it, thanks, see ya. ;)

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

Great line, I'm stealing it, thanks, see ya. ;)

i've been using it for too long myself.
i bequeath it to Ur trust. use it well and remember, it is a two edged cliche.

[MichaelK]

it is a two edged cliche.

A self-fulfilling self-deprecation, eh?

It has more class than "amateur gynocologist," which Mintzer stole from me.

[Bloozman]

Im happy to report a sucessful ending to this story...Tonight I went back and the Engineer listened to the original CD on HIS stereo and agreed there was a problem...So he then opened up the master tape and started all over...We finally got a nice mix on the new CD..however the original problem of the console sounding different from the final CD still existed.

When he mixed it again, it sounded great, so we recorded the CD and then went and played it on his stereo like we did the original one...There was a difference even between the new mix and what went onto the CD. so he had to mix it, record it onto a CD, then listen on the stereo, and make adjustments on the next CD...This was time consuming, and he had no explanation as to the difference in sound coming from his monitors via the console vs the final recorded CD. We did the above maybe 4 or 5 times till the CD was acceptable..Then he finalized it, and off I went with a great sounding CD...
I dont know what the problem was, but we found a way to overcome it, and although it was more time consuming, Im happy with the result.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and NO he isnt a Bass player:rotflmao ....He is a drummer:crazyguy Bloozman

[stratovarius]

Excellent! Sounds like the guy has some humility and integrity.

[elambo]

Im happy to report a sucessful ending to this story...Tonight I went back and the Engineer listened to the original CD on HIS stereo and agreed there was a problem...So he then opened up the master tape and started all over...We finally got a nice mix on the new CD..however the original problem of the console sounding different from the final CD still existed.

When he mixed it again, it sounded great, so we recorded the CD and then went and played it on his stereo like we did the original one...There was a difference even between the new mix and what went onto the CD. so he had to mix it, record it onto a CD, then listen on the stereo, and make adjustments on the next CD...This was time consuming, and he had no explanation as to the difference in sound coming from his monitors via the console vs the final recorded CD. We did the above maybe 4 or 5 times till the CD was acceptable..Then he finalized it, and off I went with a great sounding CD...
I dont know what the problem was, but we found a way to overcome it, and although it was more time consuming, Im happy with the result.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and NO he isnt a Bass player:rotflmao ....He is a drummer:crazyguy Bloozman

There's another problem that you're not mentioning. From what I gather, you're mixing these songs on one set of speakers in the studio, then making a CD and listening on a DIFFERENT set of speakers connected to a DIFFERENT stereo...??? Is that correct?

If so, the problem is the fact that you're moving the CD to such a different situation. I would never expect it to sound exactly the same. You should take the finished CD and play it back from the CD recorder that burned the CD and through the studio's monitors. If it sounds different there then you have a real problem.

[Bloozman]

Hey man..Im not gonna open up another can of worms...The final CD came out great..Im not gonna test my luck by experimenting...What we tried worked, and I glad it did....but thanks for the tip as I will remember that for the future

[Gibsonchild]

Glad you got things fixed!!

I think someone may have mentioned this earlier. Just an fyi-

Inaccurate monitoring is the case 75% of the time. I'm assuming you're not going to a pro level room, most likely a local studio? (not that there's anything wrong w/ that) I've done many an outstanding mix in smaller local studios only to find out the room wasn't properly designed/built/treated/tuned/whatever. And low end is usually what suffers. The mix probably sounds great, maybe even commercial quality in the control room. But if the rooms wrong, that particular mix is only relevant there.

Case in point:
The first rap cd I ever mixed, I brought in a sub (that peaked at 137dB!) to beef up the sound on the big speakers, mostly to impress the artist. Slammin!! Sounded so freakin good. Everything was hitting hard, could litterally see/feel your eyeballs rattle. And sounded like any rap cd you'd buy at the store. Took it home and it had about as much low end as a phonograph. FWIW-He (the artist) has a recording contract now and I'm in construction. HA!

[covert]

No cd will sound the same on different systems. The object of building a good monitoring environment for mixing is to be able to create mixes that translate well to other systems. This means getting the room and speakers to have the minimum impact on the sound. Really getting it right is time consuming and often expensive beyond the possibilities for most home, and many proffesional studios. One alternative is that many mix engineers learn their setups well enough that they can compensate for deficiencies. That's also a time consuming process. Sometimes a lifetime consuming process. Using other systems.rooms to check mixes is also a standard practice. If you got the results, then you won.

[Bloozman]

:drool :crazy :BOUNCE :BEER :RoCkIn

THANKS AGAIN BOYS!!!


....Bloozman