Have You removed Your String Tree?

[david henman]

...since my g&l legacy came with sperzel locking tuners, which are graduated, my tech removed the string tree, claiming that it is uneccessary and inhibits tuning stability.

personally, i hate string trees, and jump at the chance to get rid of them.
anyone else ditch their string trees?

-dh

[Unburst]

On a trem guitar I'll remove them if I can, but without graduated tuners you lose the break angle over the nut, which changes the sound.

I wouldn't say they were unnecessary, they are needed on a Fender style headstock with regular tuners, but they can cause tuning problems with a trem.

I have one string tree on my Tele for the top two strings, and for the D and G string I have to wind the string to the bottom of the post to get a good enough break angle.

[AndrewC]

I took mine off when I stuck Sperzels on - no tuning problems since, but I have now got 2 unsightly holes in the headstock. What's the best way of filling them in?

[TS808]

Carvin is one manufacturer that uses locking tuners and does not use string trees, so I guess it works out pretty well. I have string trees on both my strats as well as the newer tuners that gradually lower for a better angle. Never had any problems with them going out of tune. I tend to put a little bit of graphite in the nut slots which helps alot too.

[LaXu]

Even with Sperzels my Yamaha Pacifica 812WX has one string tree. I feel it's necessary for the high E and B strings.

[Don A]

Carvin uses an angled headstock which doesn't require string trees.
I take the G/D string tree off of my Strats. It's usually not needed.

I fill the holes with a cabinet scratch filler stick. It's like a big crayon made to fill imperfections ans small holes.

[michaelprice83]

I took mine off when I stuck Sperzels on - no tuning problems since, but I have now got 2 unsightly holes in the headstock. What's the best way of filling them in?

You also have very unsightly sprezels on your headstock. I wouldn't worry about the holes much. ;)

[AndrewC]

Pretty much identical to the original Fender ones from the front. I do need to sort the holes out though.

http://www.virtuoso.co.uk/trash/Strat1.jpghttp://www.virtuoso.co.uk/trash/Strat2.jpg

[Chuckracer]

I always remove the string trees on strats regardless of the tuners. It works fine without them and there's plenty of breakover angle. But I also put a LOT of wraps on the treble strings.

[c_mac]

I generally switch standard string trees to roller string trees. I combined these with a roller bridge and locking tuners. As long as the nut isn't junk this has combined for awesome stability.

[hawkeye17]

I had mine removed and the holes filled on my Strat when I installed a set of Sperzel locking tuners. It plays and sounds fantastic. Stays in tune extremely well.

[michaelprice83]

Pretty much identical to the original Fender ones from the front. I do need to sort the holes out though.




Oh yeah, identical to the very non classic looking tuners that guitar had in the first place. Sorry I didn't realize it was one of those "strats"

[Heinz57]

Sperzels look right at home on an electric to me. Spezels make string changes so much easier, and quicker. Plus they help tremolo equipped guitars stay in tune.

Right now I'm thinking how much faster I could change the strings on my acoustic if it were equipped with sperzels. I don't really think I could do it but If I had a beater acoustic I'd be really tempted. Has anybody gone completely nuts with sperzels and put them on an acoustic?

Hawkeye can you post a pic of your headstock without the string tree holes? I'd like to see just how invisible they can be made to look.

[Robertito]

I took the string trees off some years ago, when I first had locking tuners on a Strat, but found that I really needed them in the studio, so now I have one on the headstock but don't put the strings through it live - only during recording.

[oxtone]

I took off the middle string tree years ago, when I got Sperzels, and an Earvana Nut installed on my Walnut "The Strat". The remaining tree is a Graph Tech. No problems using the Wilkinson "Vintage" Trem I had installed. I also use some Big Bends Nut Sauce sometimes, which works great.

[AndrewC]

Oh yeah, identical to the very non classic looking tuners that guitar had in the first place. Sorry I didn't realize it was one of those "strats"

If the sight of non-vintage tuners is making you hostile and aggressive, perhaps it's time to phone the clinic again..? :crazyguy

[mgarrison99]

I just pulled off the one I put on for the D and G string. I think it has been the root of my tuning issues when using the trem arm.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u53/mgarrison99/Guitars/Fender%2050s%20Strat/Trees.jpg

[JUSTJOB]

My CS Strat Pro came without any string tree. It does have Sperzels, a roller nut, and that Strats tuning is stable as a rock. It sounds fantastic too!
Best Regards!

[scottlr]

All of my Strats and Teles have the vintage style trees, and I leave them on, without any problem. After watching the Greg Koch DVD, I did take the string out of the tree to try out some of his behind the nut skullduggery, but I put it back shortly after.

[John Hurtt]

Oh yeah, identical to the very non classic looking tuners that guitar had in the first place. Sorry I didn't realize it was one of those "strats"


So, am I assuming that unless a strat is a vintage-style it's not a "real" strat?

How's that Model A running? ;)

[David Collins]

I have two on my strat, screwed down to the wood like the photo above, vintage style tuners, bone nut, use the tremolo and bend a lot. It stays in tune beautifully, needing tuning about as often as string changes. I've seen plenty of guitars that won't stay or play in tune that have string trees, but very few which the problem is due to the string trees. They're very useful, necessary for some instruments and players, and often blamed for problems they may not be causing. The few times I have found them to blame I've pulled them to clean and polish the underside, and any catching was gone.

[aleclee]

My Tele came with one tree and I replaced it with a graphite one. I had some tuning issues with the E&B until putting in the slicker tree. The graphite tree doesn't look too vintage but it works a heckuvalot better.

[Clutch21286]

Just be warned that if you remover your string tree(s) you "could" get some odd overtones originating behind the nut. I would make sure you put some extra winds on the G-E strings and check for those overtones before filling any holes! If they occur, you could deaden them with a piece of tape or foam.

[Pietro]

My US Masters strat has no trees. But it has graduated Sperzels, which look fine, imho.

[Mike9]

Like David Collins I polish the underside of string trees. On the round ones I like to use I relieve the edges and I always GREASE the undersides and the nut slots and oil the saddles - then there is no binding and my Strats return to pitch nicely even with heavy tremolo use.

[pstarr]

Great thread. The vintage round string tree on my Vinetto artifact T causes a bit of binding, so I'm reading this with great interest. A couple of questions:
--How does increasingly or lessening the break angle at the nut change the sound? I.e., anything besides the overtones that clutch21286 speaks of?
--Any tips on how best to polish the underside of a circular tree?
--Will a graphite product work under a tree as well as grease?
Thanks!

[Gasp100]

This is a good thread. I have a neck that I kind of massacared the headstock trying to install (and then reinstall) different types of string trees. I brought it into the shop (new nut to be installed, frets leveled, etc...) the tech took one look and said it's quite likely when he's done I won't need any string tree's... maybe to be safe one under E/B.
I like one under E/B on my Reverend and the graphite T on my G&L's... work flawlessly.

[pstarr]

A couple of questions:
--How does increasingly or lessening the break angle at the nut change the sound? I.e., anything besides the overtones that clutch21286 speaks of?
--Any tips on how best to polish the underside of a circular tree?
--Will a graphite product work under a tree as well as grease?

Would still love to get feedback on these. Thanks!

[jay42]

On two out of three parts-o-casters with Sperzels, the high strings rang behind the nut. The third one doesn't ring, so no tree. Kind of looks weird without one. I put the trees farther up the face for a less severe angle...which also looks a bit odd. It seemed to make sense at the time.

[blood5150]

I just bought a 2008 american standard strat... if I put on some locking schallers can I ditch the string tree?

or does it have something to do with string tension, neck etc?

[jaywalker]

Yep. from my strat.
had to down-tune last week and regreted it big time.
The e string popped out during a live TV show......

[fullerplast]

Great thread. The vintage round string tree on my Vinetto artifact T causes a bit of binding, so I'm reading this with great interest. A couple of questions:
--How does increasingly or lessening the break angle at the nut change the sound? I.e., anything besides the overtones that clutch21286 speaks of?
--Any tips on how best to polish the underside of a circular tree?
--Will a graphite product work under a tree as well as grease?
Thanks!

The break angle simply determines the amount of downward force on the nut. It's mostly significant for the E and B strings. You can often get away without a tree (look at the EJ strats for example) but you will either need staggered height tuners or will need to wind your strings down the post as far as you can go. This is a good practice even with a tree since it reduces the friction at the tree. Staggered tuners simply allow you to do the same thing without the extra string wraps.

If you have small frets and a correspondingly low nut slot, you will very likely need the tree or else have to deal with buzzing or low volume on the open E and B strings, since these decrease the break angle. The larger the frets (and higher the nut slot), the more likely you can get away without a tree, since these increase the break angle naturally. It's usually borderline on any guitar so small differences matter. It also matters how the nut slot is cut.....you want the slot to drop away from the fretboard edge of the nut.

Polishing a tree can be done easily with a soft nail polishing stick, fine sandpaper, or polishing compound. Normally this is not needed but can't hurt. A dab of lubricant like wax, chapstick, graphite, or nut sauce is always good on the string tree and any other string contact points.

[Dana Olsen]

I've got one string tree fo the high "E" and "B".

I've experimented with raising the tree with a taller spacer. IMHO, the real prob with trees is that they're either screwed down too tight, practically kinking the string as it passes under the tree, and that the trees themselves are unpolished per David Collins and unlubed per Mike9.

In my experience, when you raise the tree height so the string's aren't kinked passing under 'em, and polish and lube the string tree, you won't have any tuning problems even when using the whammy (so long as the whammy is set up OK too).

The only downside for removing them all together is obvious - if the headstock angle or tuners aren' graduated, your top strings will buzz in the nut slot when played open w/o trees unless you do something to increase the down pressure at the nut.

Hope this helps, Dana O.

[pstarr]

Thanks, fullerplast and Dana O. That's very helpful!

[Gasp100]

After 2 failed attempts at installing string tree's in my partscaster (one involving the screw getting imbedded into the headstock :mad: I took the guitar to a tech. This guy kicks ass, just got the guitar back and it's playing beautifully - no reason for string tree's on this one as per the tech. Most intonation/tuning problems can be taken care of by someone who knows how to file a nut properly - that "someone" is not me :YinYang

[blood5150]

But if I put locking schallers on a 2008 american standard strat will I still need the string trees?

The specs say that the tuners are graduated, if so.. why did it come with a string tree in the 1st place?

[Tinman]

Here is what I have been doing with my guitars that have the graduated post heights: I put the tuners with the shortest posts in the G and D spots, and the two with slightly longer posts in the high E and B spots. When you do this, you still have to use one string tree on the E/B strings, but the G and D strings usually get a sufficient break angle. I prefer the cylindrical barrel type retainers that I have only seen available at Warmoth.

[candid_x]

I play a Music Man Silhouette Special - don't need no stinking string trees.