6L6 Power Tube Opinions

[Eagle]

Hey Guys ... Calling on all those with any expierence with 6L6 type power tubes. I'm looking for replacement tubes for my Blues Deville and was wondering if any of you have any opinions/recomendations on which way to go. I'm looking for a more rounded warm blues tone then the stock GT's and am relatively new to tube amps so any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any replies.

Eagle Out.

[nosajwp]

You'll be hard pressed to do better than SED's!!!

[fiddler59]

TAD Audio rca black plate clones...........hands down the best and I have used them all. MOJO musical supply carries them.....killer !!
David B.

[empty71]

I'm using SED/Winged Cs 6L6 in my Gries 35;)

This article sold me on the SED/Winged Cs.

http://www.watfordvalves.com/cgi-bin/documents/testreport_44.pdf

[Blue Strat]

What's a "blues tone"? BB King plays blues and so did Duane Allman. Those 2 tones are about as far apart as possible...one crystal clean, the other VERY dirty.

If you're looking for lower headroom and earlier breakup, the JAN Philips 6L6WGBs are excellent and MUCH more cost effective than any of the new production tubes because they last 5 times longer.

[mt10]

I have tried old Sylvanias and RCA Blackplates in my Bassmans. The Sylvanias sounded kinda sterile. Once I put the RCA Blackplates in, the amp turned into magic. The tone seemed to get much more dimensional. After that, I bought Blackplates for all my Bassmans and Bandmasters.

[slider313]

Try the new Tung Sol 5881. Great for blues. They have a very warm rounded tone with a midrange bloom and nice compression. A plus if you play a strat.

[Blue Strat]

Try the new Tung Sol 5881. Great for blues. They have a very warm rounded tone with a midrange bloom and nice compression. A plus if you play a strat.

Why, when you can get the NOS equivalent (JAN Philips 6L6WGBS) for less money?

[Swarty]

Why, when you can get the NOS equivalent (JAN Philips 6L6WGBS) for less money?
:AOK

[Johnny Z]

I put a set of Ruby's in my Hellhound and they seem very good, and I was skeptical at first because I've always been a RCA fan, but their gettin' harder to find.

[trdlasvegas]

Why, when you can get the NOS equivalent (JAN Philips 6L6WGBS) for less money?

Huh?

NOS JAN Philips 6L6WGB - $50 matched pair
http://www.kcanostubes.com/content/estore_details.asp?category=173&product=132

Tung-Sol 5881 - $47.50 matched pair
http://trdpartsonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=282


-Tony

[Tuberattler]

I put JJ's in my Blues DeVille and like 'em a LOT better than the stock tubes.. also raised the bias and now it sounds a bit bigger and a lot fatter.

[Blue Strat]

Huh?

NOS JAN Philips 6L6WGB - $50 matched pair
http://www.kcanostubes.com/content/estore_details.asp?category=173&product=132

Tung-Sol 5881 - $47.50 matched pair
http://trdpartsonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=282


-Tony

Ok, why would you pay $2.50 less for tubes that last 1/5 as long?:rotflmao

[gldtp99]

just my opinion but these newer Fender amps don't sound that much different with premium hi $$$ tubes vs New Prod "whatever" tubes---- on the other hand, the '62 and '63 Brownface and '64 Blackface Bandmasters i just serviced up had a clearly positive response to the Sylvania, GE, and RCA Blackplate (respectively) 6L6GC's i installed in them, replacing New Prod 6L6's---- i say save some $$$ and run Sovteks in the Deville........gldtp99

[trdlasvegas]

Ok, why would you pay $2.50 less for tubes that last 1/5 as long?:rotflmao

Oh come Mike, let's not go through that tedious excersize of NOS vs New Production usage again. :horse

I was just correcting your statment about pricing.

-Tony

[rockon1]

I put JJ's in my Blues DeVille and like 'em a LOT better than the stock tubes.. also raised the bias and now it sounds a bit bigger and a lot fatter.

Im thinking of a set of the JJ 6L6GC for my JSX. Ive heard they are smoother on the top end then other new stuff.

[Eagle]

I like the idea of the lower clean headroom that those JAN Phillips 6L6WGB's are supposed to offer, earlier breakup at not so intense volumes would be awesome. I Think I'll check those out .... Thanks Guys!

[Blue Strat]

Oh come Mike, let's not go through that tedious excersize of NOS vs New Production usage again. :horse

I was just correcting your statment about pricing.

-Tony

My comment was targeted more to the original poster. And I stand by the statement.:p

[slider313]

Why, when you can get the NOS equivalent (JAN Philips 6L6WGBS) for less money?

Because they sound completly different than the Phillips 6L6WGB. I find the new 5881 sounds more like the original Tung Sol, and the Phillips isn't as warm or compressed when pushed.

[Blue Strat]

Because they sound completly different than the Phillips 6L6WGB. I find the new 5881 sounds more like the original Tung Sol, and the Phillips isn't as warm or compressed when pushed.

Yes, but since there is abso-f'ing-lutely no concensus on tone.... ;)

[trdlasvegas]

Yes, but since there is abso-f'ing-lutely no concensus on tone.... ;)

or tubes...:rolleyes:


-Tony

[tejastubes]

OK OK, I will chime in. If you want the TONE, go with an RCA 6L6GC blackplate tube. For approx $200 per matched pair, (someplaces charge more $$$) you get THE reference 6L6GC tube. Period. They really do sound amazing and after you fill up your SUV 4 times with gas (like I do), there you go. I wish gasoline lasted as long as the RCA blackplates I have in my amps.

Joshua

[Blue Strat]

or tubes...:rolleyes:


-Tony

Precisely my point. Though, most people who've been around tubes for a while know the advantages of NOS:AOK

Just ribbin' ya.:dude

[ausguitarman]

Had one of these for years.

The tubes that made it for me were NOS JAN Sylvania 5881's.

Never liked the amp up until I put these in.

I also found that the preamp tubes made quite a difference as well.

[rex kwon do]

And that tube is just a Tung Sol with Sylvania's name on it anyway.

Just adding to the confusion......

[Blue Strat]

And that tube is just a Tung Sol with Sylvania's name on it anyway.

Just adding to the confusion......

Not necessarily. Sylvania made 5881s and they also relabled Tung Sols.

[trdlasvegas]

Precisely my point. Though, most people who've been around tubes for a while know the advantages of NOS:AOK

Just ribbin' ya.:dude

or disadvantages...$$$


Just ribbin' ya back :p

-Tony

[Blue Strat]

or disadvantages...$$$


Just ribbin' ya back :p

-Tony

Unless you consider price per hour/day/week/year ;)

[Brewmaster]

If you ask the tube amp gurus they will all say the same thing. The biggest impact on amp tone is the V1 preamp tube.
The only time I heard a real difference in tone caused by the power tubes was a set of NOS Tung Sol 5881's in an old Bassman, and a set of Siemans EL-34's in a Plexi.

The question is what 6L6 would you recommend for a Blues Deville. I liked the Svets in mine since they lasted about two years. Over the years I tried the Jan Philips (pulled them), the JJ's ( Also Good) and a bunch of others. I have found that the tone difference on the power tubes can only be heard at volume if at all. Longevity is another issue.

[tejastubes]

6L6GC RCA,,,the reference tube and the only way to go. I also hear the GT 6L6GC US made pairs are quite good but I have not heard them myself as of yet. Joshua

[Greggy]

Im thinking of a set of the JJ 6L6GC for my JSX. Ive heard they are smoother on the top end then other new stuff.


That's my experience also, in my GT Soul O 45. Smooth top end, good tube.

[rex kwon do]

GT-6L6S, which are the Slovak tubes, are very similar to the JJ tubes and they are outstanding. A real darkhorse...

[Blue Strat]

GT-6L6S, which are the Slovak tubes, are very similar to the JJ tubes and they are outstanding. A real darkhorse...

If they're Slovak tubes, I think they MUST be JJs.

[Johnny Z]

I put a set of Ruby 6L6GCMSTR in my Reverend and they seem to be working well and very clean. Did your amp come with 5881's? If you like that tone stay with them. I think they are bit more gritty sounding than standard 6L6's, that's why I don't use them.

[Old Tele man]

...technically, except for dissipation ratings, the 6L6, 6L6GA, 6L6GB, 5881, 6L6GC, 7581A and 7027A tubes are supposed to all have identical operating characteristics...

...and since dissipation ratings theoretically have NO affect on operating characteristics -- and thus no affect on sonic qualities -- you would expect them all to produce approximately the same sounds...but they don't.

...hm-m-m-m, must be the manufacturing tolerances, maybe?!?!

...if that's true, then maybe the NOS tubes with much, better production tolerances just MIGHT be better than the current poor toleranced tubes?!?

...just maybe!

[Johnny Z]

I could be wrong but I think a higher dissipation such as 60% vs. 70% and a higher Plate voltage results in a higher wattage rating the trade off is a shorter tube life. I know my Reverend is set at almost 70% dissipation and is rated at 60 watts with only 2 6L6's. Most other similar amps I know of are closer to 40-50 watts.

[Blue Strat]

I could be wrong but I think a higher dissipation such as 60% vs. 70% and a higher Plate voltage results in a higher wattage rating the trade off is a shorter tube life. I know my Reverend is set at almost 70% dissipation and is rated at 60 watts with only 2 6L6's. Most other similar amps I know of are closer to 40-50 watts.

Idle current setting has absolutely nothing to do with the achievable output power of any power tube.

[Johnny Z]

Idle current setting has absolutely nothing to do with the achievable output power of any power tube.

Yea I know that. Dosen't plate voltage effect wattage? I'm no amp tech or expert the subject.

[Old Tele man]

Dosen't plate voltage effect wattage?...there's NO plate voltage term in the vacuum tube equation for output power:

Po = Zo' * (gm*Vg)^2

where:
Po = Power output, Watts
Zo' = Effective Plate load impedance, Ohms
gm = Tube transconductance, Amps-per-Volt
Vg = Effective control-grid drive signal, Volts(rms)

...this equation is simply the old "I-squared × R" product (P = R*I^2) with substitutions for R and I, where Zo' = R and I = (gm*Vg).

...it's ALL about input AC-voltage and output AC-current (remember transformers don't "pass" DC voltage or current, only AC changes) across a "common" impedance load (combination of DC-resistance and AC-reactances).

[tremolux]

Must be a run of bad luck, but Ive installed at least 60-70 pairs and/or quads of Svet 6L6GCs in customers amps over the last 5 years or so and had at least one out of every three installations have a tube become so microphonic after a few weeks that it sounded like a bass drum when tapped lightly with a chopstick/sharpie pen etc. The noisey ones in combos almost always need replacing. Any one else run into this with Svets?? Mine have come from a number of different production runs.

Also, is Shuguang still making the brown base 6L6GC? (red boxes, labeled Shuguang with no consistent markings on tube)

I know these were the same tube Ruby calls the STR tho most of Rubys were black based. Is Lord Valve still carrying the brown base Shug? Anybody?

[afenderman67]

i'm not a tech, but i've have had the same problem with some of the svets tubes? so i tried the JJ 6L6GC's and never looked back, they sound bigger and bolder. with a smoother top end, i've had not one ever give up on me or rattled!

my blackface super reverb had some sylvania 6l6gc which sounded killer in that amp until they went bad on me , so i A-B alot of tube in this amp, svet ,jj, tad ,ge,and the JJ's sounded the best and the closest to the sylvania!

chris bolen

[Blue Strat]

...there's NO plate voltage term in the vacuum tube equation for output power:

Po = Zo' * (gm*Vg)^2

where:
Po = Power output, Watts
Zo' = Effective Plate load impedance, Ohms
gm = Tube transconductance, Amps-per-Volt
Vg = Effective control-grid drive signal, Volts(rms)

...this equation is simply the old "I-squared × R" product (P = R*I^2) with substitutions for R and I, where Zo' = R and I = (gm*Vg).

...it's ALL about input AC-voltage and output AC-current (remember transformers don't "pass" DC voltage or current, only AC changes) across a "common" impedance load (combination of DC-resistance and AC-reactances).

Not sure where it fits in an equation, but I know you'll get less clean power at 250Vplate than you will at 450Vplate, everything else being equal.

[Old Tele man]

...like the little guy on 'Fantasy Island' used to yell: "de load line! de load line!"

...the "load line" is a volts-per-amp quasi-constant (remember it's actually an elliptical path due to inductance) that can't go any further RIGHT (volts) on the Eb-Ib chart than the plate voltage.

...but just because the voltage is THERE is no sign the tubes gonna "use" it, because the load line determines where & how much is being used, which is a funciton of the load and OT-reflection "ratio."

...so plate voltage is really a "use it, if you can" quantity, not a "more means more output,"...in fact, increasing the plate voltage on an existing amp seldom yields more power...especially if the SCREEN voltage (Vs) and effective load (Zo') remain the same. Furthermore, screen voltage is not a parameter in the output power equation, either!

...for OUTPUT power, screen voltage is the limiting factor, not plate voltage; but for IDLE dissipation, plate voltage is the limiting factor, not screen voltage.

[SeanF]

TAD Audio rca black plate clones...........hands down the best and I have used them all. MOJO musical supply carries them.....killer !!
David B.

I tried a pair of the TAD 6L6WGC-STR's in a tweed Deluxe clone recently, they were awesome.

[yZe]

I understand the phillips last longer, but they seem to be better for earlier breakup

Which 6L6' s last the longerst and have the most headroom for cleans (100 W amp)?