Schematic for Gretsch 6162 combo?

[Fretts]

This is a little 2-10 amp with tremolo and (miserable) reverb. The power tubes are 6973 which makes it potentially about 25-30 watts I think.
I've been all over the web, and they all have the same schem.
This one is different, it has a 6973 for a reverb driver, not the 12AX7, it's a 2-input, 1-channel job not a 4-input, 2-channel.
A lot of the values are different and the topology is not like that schematic that everybody has. I spent an hour and a half starting to trace out the circuit until my eyes glazed over, I got to the second stage and the reverb and just suffered a brain fart, I can't do it. Too many little tag strips tucked in there with hidden parts and 200 wires going every which a way. This amp has a few problems and I would prefer to have a schematic to go by.

Any help out there guys? It's a 1963 by all evidence on the inside.

[slider313]

I have the same amp. It's a late '63. I believe that was the first year of production on this model.The reverb driver should be a 12ax7. I have 2 6973's for power tubes, a 6eu7 driver/phase inverter, and four 12ax7's as input signal tubes,reverb and trem. I've never seen a 6973 used as a reverb send or pre-amp/function tube. Try swapping it with a 12ax7,this may be your problem. By the way,the amp is rated 17 watts.

[Fretts]

slider, thanks for the info...
I swear, the chassis is factory stamped with 6973 in the reverb driver position, and to a poor degree, the reverb works. It's also wired for the 6973, based on what I see on that socket. If it was for a 12AX7, it wouldn't work at all because the pins are all different. On this socket, pin 7, which would be an input on the 12AX7, goes to ground through a 1-watt 1500 ohm resistor and a paralleled 35uF capacitor. Those parts spell cathode to me, so I am convinced that even if the chassis was mislabeled, the actual wiring is right for the 6973 pentode to drive the reverb.
Bottom line, still searching for a true schematic.

Slider... is your amp a 4-input two channel or a 2-input one channel amp? The diagram that is everywhere out there is a 4-in, two channel circuit.

[slider313]

Fretts,my amp's a single channel dual input. One input marked standard and the other treble.The 12ax7 is cathode bypassed in fender amps with a 1500 ohm resistor and a 25/25 electrolytic in signal input and reverb stages. I believe Gretsch/Valco used the 35/35.http://photobucket.com/albums/b376/slider313/speakers033.jpg

[slider313]

http://photobucket.com/albums/b376/slider313/speakers032.jpg

[Fretts]

Slider, wow, yours is about perfect! My amp is exactly that, except for the tube difference. Two chrome Gretsch knobs, three black ones. Mine has seen a lot of work and a lot of miles, it's pretty funky. The "silver can" capacitor has been replaced with some OK-looking yellow german singles on the inside, so what are the values that your silver can says? The one on the top section?
I can use that photo -- my back panel is missing and I wanted to get the proportions right to make a replacement. The vinyl is going to be impossible, so I'll just have to put on something that is totally, intentionally different. Plain black doesn't look right.

Here you can see what a mess mine is in, you can see the yellow German caps replacing the silver can, you can tell I am slowly tracing out the actual circuit by hand. When it's done, I'll post it, apparently there isn't a single example in existence anywhere. It'll take awhile, I don't work on it every day, mostly a few hours per weekend until I go crosseyed. The front shot, you can see the miserable little reverb unit I managed to repair, don't care to ever do one of those again! Once I get the circuitry worked out and the bad parts replaced, we'll see what the reverb actually sounds like.
Didn't you say that yours does work and it's nothing to write home about?
I did get one of the 10's reconed by Ron Neal in Sacramento, it sounds stiff as a board, which is expected with brand new paper and no edge treatment. I'll break it in with some lowdown Link Wray stuff and that ought to loosen it up so it sounds more like the still-working original next to it. Ron does wonderful, meticulous, sanitary work, not an extra drip or drop of anything anywhere, military-style.
Slider, are your speaker terminals tucked way up high out of sight, or are they down lower and visible like the way I found mine?

http://www.jeffjourard.com/images/Gretsch%206162%20backside%20%28Small%29.jpg

http://www.jeffjourard.com/images/Gretsch%206162%20front%20%28Small%29.jpg

[slider313]

Fretts,the twist lock cap value in the preamp section is 20/10/10 and it's the same in the power supply.These were very small compared to the 3/20's you find in princeton reverbs and can't be found as far as I know.
The reverb is very different than most and doesn't"trail off" or wash out after a note,it kind of just ends.I kind of like it,as it can be turned up without drowning out the signal.
As for the speaker terminals,the speakers just may be mounted differently where they are at about 10 and 2 o'clock.
When I saw this amp,I couldn't believe how clean it was. I've never seen a Gretsch this clean. The tolex they used borders on contact paper;lol;and there's almost always a tear or wear spots to be found.
Good luck restoring yours and I'll be glad to give you any info if I can provide it.

[Fretts]

I finished the schematic. I have no brain cells left. I never want to see this amp again. This is the most ridiculous way to manufacture an amp in the world. Every single section was a wild goose chase all over the chassis.
If you want it, I'll email it. It's a PDF.:messedup

[budward]

Hey there -

I have another Valco amp that sounds exactly like the one you were speaking of, though its branded as a Supro "Royal Reverb." Same deal with a 6973 driving the reverb... Crazy set up with two high voltage sections - one sitting on the bottom of the amp with the power trans - one up with the controls.

If you somehow read this and still have the schematic I'd sure love to see it. Right now all the 6973 sockets have been re-wired to take EL84's - and the reverb is just awful. I want to get it back to spec and go from there...

Thanks!

- Budward