Classicals?

[Lerxst2112]

I've always just played classical stuff on my Larrivee (yes, I know, that's terrible), but lately I've become very interested in actually getting a very nice classical.

Could someone point me in the direction of the best builders? Money is not really a huge problem - I mean, I don't want to (and won't) spend $20,000, but several thousand wouldn't be a huge problem.

If this isn't the place to ask (or there is a better one), could someone please show me?

Thanks.

[ChazMania]

Good friend of mine builds some killer classicals, check www.delgadoguitars.com Manuel is a great human being.

[riffmeister]

for starters, check out these sites:

www.guitarsaloninternational.com (http://www.guitarsaloninternational.com)

www.theguitarsalon.com (http://www.theguitarsalon.com)

www.trilogyguitars.com (http://www.trilogyguitars.com)

www.classicguitar.com (http://www.classicguitar.com)

www.classicalguitarstore.com (http://www.classicalguitarstore.com)

www.kirkpatrickguitar.com (http://www.kirkpatrickguitar.com)

www.guitarsint.com (http://www.guitarsint.com)

www.dreamguitars.com (http://www.dreamguitars.com)


I've been dabbling in classical guitars for the last ten years or so. I like the older ones. It is amazing what age will do for the sound of a good classical guitar. I've gotten several new ones, but I've always wound up selling them in favor of the older ones. My personal faves are from Manuel Velazquez.

[Lerxst2112]

Those look nice.

What else is out there? I know about Rodriquez already (just saw they were bought by Fender... how disappointing).

[Lerxst2112]

This does pose a problem. Every classical I've ever played has been very different, but they all look just about the same on the outside. For the most part, the woods seem to be Spruce/Cedar and Rosewood, and that's about it. They all seem to be about the same size, use approximately the same woods, look very similar...

How does one shop for classical guitars online? :-\ This would definitely be impossible. Dozens of luthiers, all of their instruments look the same, are made of the same woods, etc... At the very least, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT!

[riffmeister]

tops are mostly: spruce & cedar

sides & back are mostly: Indian/Brazilian rosewood, maple, cypress for flamenco

*very* broadly speaking, there are two main types, Spanish inspired (Ramirez, Fleta) and German inspired (Hauser). The Spanish guitars have deeper bodies and tend to have bigger basses, the German guitars have shallower bodies and tend to be more 'balanced' with a brighter top end. Of course these are *VERY* broad generalizations.

A good medium price level luthier is Darren Hippner, and he will build in a variety of styles. But there are MANY choices out there, and it takes some time be become acquainted with what's available.

About buying online.....for me this is a nearly impossible task for ANY acoustic intrument. They are so individual......in sound and playability. The ONLY way I will do this is if the dealer has an approval period, usually 2-3 days. If you don't like, you can return for a full refund, but you pay shipping both ways. The BEST way is to get out there and try a bunch of guitars, see what you like, what floats your boat.

[clemduolian]

I have a David Russell Young classical that I am looking to sell. The guitar was built in 1975--cedar top, Brazilian rosewood back and sides; Kasha bridge. It is a spectacular guitar, with great tone and playability; built by one of the most influential guitar builders in recent times.

http://www.troutstudios.com/dry.jpg
If you're interested, send me an email and I'll send some more pictures. (Sorry about the broken string in the picture:jo)

Clem

p.s. It is also played on a recent double platinum album...so there is some good mojo attached.

[gtrnstuff]

http://www.lamancha.com/

If you're ever in Nashville, Jerry Roberts is great to deal with. I went there and spent about 2 or 3 hours trying a couple dozen guitars, old, new, name brand, "house brand", obscure. Finally settled on "the one" with the clearest voice and best balance that day. Happened to be a LaMancha Ruck-style, less than $2500, I forget exactly.
Happy hunting!

Edit: I see the website doesn't have very recent dates posted--still worth an email to him, though, hopefully he's still at it.

[KRosser]

Find a classical guitar dealer you can drive to. Find something you like there.

I would not buy anything you have not played. It's too hard to predict the sound, feel, quality and ISSUES that the guitar might have. If you try stuff you may find a GREAT used guitar in your price range with maybe a crack repair, you might find something from a young builder without a rep yet that you like...totally unpredictable, but I would not recommend you have brands/builders in mind. I have played guitars by some great builders that have sucked.

A big, big +1 on all this. In fact, if I were spending upwards of $2-$3K on a classical, I'd be willing to spend a little more and make a weekend trip to a major metropolitan area with a couple good dealers.

[Lerxst2112]

I'm looking for a spruce top.

And yes, riffmeister, that's what I was saying. It seems the electric guitars aren't really that fine of an art compared to acoustics and classicals. You can look at a stock Suhr picture and pretty much tell what it's going to play and sound like. You won't have ANY idea what a stock picture of a Velazquez or Ramirez classical will sound like.

[Lerxst2112]

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what I was hoping for from this thread. I was hoping people would point me in the direction of some great builders, but there are literally hundreds of brands guitars that I've seen just on the websites posted in this thread.

With electrics, I can just type in a few URLs and figure out what I want. I'm just going to have to take a serious roadtrip... unfortunately, I live in an area where there are no nice classical dealers.

[alanbass1]

Rodrigo Moreira makes stunning classical guitars for what is a bargain price[in the scheme of the established concert standard classical market]. Two years ago I paid $2000 for one of his guitars [direct from him] with highly figured 'spider web' Brazilian Rosewood back and sides and mastergrade european Spruce top - french polish finish etc. Each one is hand made by Rodrigo himself (not a work shop as the majority of $1k - $4k tend to be). He learnt his craft from his grandfather and inherited his stock of extremely old and beautifully figured Brazilian Rosewood. More importantly is the quality of the workmanship and sound - very loud and even with bright trebles and a firm well founded bass. Although originally from Brazil, Rodrigo works out of Massachuset and I will highly recommend him to anyone in the market for a true conceret quality guitar. Also, when I purchased from him he offerred a full refund if the instrument was not exactly what I wanted and he followed up several times to ensure I was entirely happy.

rodrigomoreira2001@yahoo.com

[daddyo]

I've always just played classical stuff on my Larrivee (yes, I know, that's terrible), but lately I've become very interested in actually getting a very nice classical.

Could someone point me in the direction of the best builders? Money is not really a huge problem - I mean, I don't want to (and won't) spend $20,000, but several thousand wouldn't be a huge problem.

If this isn't the place to ask (or there is a better one), could someone please show me?

Thanks.

Larrivee originally made classicals and they still make a very nice all solid wood classical.
http://www.larrivee.com/flash/products/guitars/LS-30/ls30.html
http://www.larrivee.com/flash/products/guitars/LSV-30/lsv30.html

[Lerxst2112]

Yeah, but I don't know about that. I love Larrivees, but I'd rather get something hand-made by one person who is a dedicated classical luthier, not by an acoustic company that just one day decided to make some classicals.

[ChazMania]

I'm trying not to sound spamish like, but I can strongly encourage you to call my friend Manuel, link posted above. He builds everything from start to finish himself and comes from 3 generations of luthiers. I consider him one of my closest friends and if you would like to call me about him, that's cool too. BTW- he is currently living in the Nashville area.

Peace,
Charlie

[Lerxst2112]

> I was hoping people would point me in the direction of some great builders, but there are literally hundreds of brands guitars that I've seen just on the websites posted in this thread.

I started out in the classical game - pre internet, but still - when you are looking for your first "real" guitar, names of builders is not really where you start. It's not like Anderson, Suhr, DeTemple, Callaham for a strat. You see one at the store or you hear about some nice guitar someplace, or from playing your buddy's and liking it or hearing a concert and liking one you heard. A lot of these guys build 10-15 guitars a year. Not really a brand at that point. It's a different type of market. And if you find 10 of a builders guitars somewhere - they ain't gonna be that great. Most classical guitars are Torres rips or Torres inspired Ramirez 1a rips. "Brands" are going to be mass produced crizap for the most part. Your "several thousand" range is the most dangerous range. You are teetering on overpaying for something that is not worth the money quite frankly and you're looking to under pay for a real good concert guitar. I always tell people in your situation to go buy a $1500 guitar that you like and save for a $5-8k guitar. If your several means $3k to $4k then you might be looking for a young builder or a used guitar that's lived a little. $5k for a Ramirez 1a that you like (made from say 67 to 78) would be a good thing to try. There are a lot of those around (not all made by the same person).
You might be surprised how many classical builders are in your area. Try the local Classical Guitar Society for a list of luthiers or go to the city and check out the dealers.
I just checked the Classical Guitar Society. Closest one to me is Columbia, and that website is 2 years out of date and only talks about a few classical guitarists, not guitars.

I think you are giving some great advice. However, the $1500 suggestion won't fly. I'm actually a college student (music major at the College of Charleston). Money doesn't exactly grow on trees for me... $1500 on a "starter" classical means $1500 less to spend on my "real" classical.

I like your Ramirez suggestion. The 1A was actually the first classical I looked at (I began looking at classicals about 2 years ago). I will definitely look at those...

EDIT: Well, I guess I could sell it... but, I'd rather just get what I really wanted the first time.

[alanbass1]

Wow, I thought I take a look and see how Moreira guitars are going and seems they are starting to fetch the prices that the craftmanship, sound and materials deserve:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/instock_moreira.htm#classicA

Also, he seems to have gone into making steel strung guitars as well. Reckon they would be cheaper buying direct, but I can attest that the guitar I have held it's own with a Herman Hauser III at a recent classical workshop I attended.

[Lerxst2112]

Looking at the first acoustic listed by Moreira, does the string spacing look off to anyone else?

[riffmeister]

Looking at the first acoustic listed by Moreira, does the string spacing look off to anyone else?

I'm looking at the shot of the headstock. All I can say is whomever strung that guitar did not do a very good job. The best way is to use as few wraps around the rollers as possible (nylon stretches!) and to have the strings with as little angle as possible between the nut and the roller.

It's hard to tell what the string spacing is.......it looks uniform to me.

[Lerxst2112]

Are you talking about a classical or the acoustic? Either way, doesn't matter.

[riffmeister]

I'm looking at the first one here:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/instock_moreira.htm#classicA

Wild the way the string angles cross. The windings on the D & G strings should be towards the inside of the headstock, and the windings on the high and low E strings should be toward the outside of the headstock. They are just the opposite in that pic.

[Junior]

Well, I guess I could sell it... but, I'd rather just get what I really wanted the first time. I agree with Joe, and forgive me for playing the age card, but things aren't as "once in a lifetime" as they seem to you now. Nor do I think you have much hope of buying THE guitar for you on the first try. I sell classicals, and it's not at all like selling steel strings. There's much greater variance in the personalty of each guitar, despite there being greater similarity in size, materials and construction. And, while the players tend to have a much better idea of what they're looking for, the search takes a lot longer.

I second the idea of getting something under 2K to start and playing it while you're looking, because as you play it, you'll get a clearer concept of what you really want. Appreciating classical guitars is a bit like appreciating fine wines - there's a learning curve - and you become more discriminating as your taste develops.

As others have said, brands really mean very little, but for what it's worth, in your price range we sell guitars by Ken Hill, and are generally pleased by them.

[Lerxst2112]

This might very well be something I'm going to have to perform with... it needs to be a very nice sounding guitar.

I'll look under $2000, but I don't hold out much hope for finding anything worthwhile.

[e-z]

Definitely play as many as possible before you buy. When I was shopping for one I went to a place that specializes in classical and flamenco guitars. I played as many as there were in my price range. Even from the same builder the neck shape and overall feel of each guitar was remarkably varied. The dealer let me take my top three choices home to play for a few days and he recommended I show them to my teacher to get his input. You might want to check out the classical guitar forum at http://www.delcamp.net. There are many threads on builders and brands there.

[nashvillesteve]

I have an Amalio Burguet that's really nice. It's a cosmetic 2nd due to a burl in the top woodgrain, he exports them somebody in the US that sells them to students at an affordable price. His normal guitars are probably amazing, but you don't see many classicals around in shops compared to other types of guitars...

The guitar I have cost a fellow guitar student $800 (purpotedly) and it was sold to me for $400... Yet it is simply not a $400 guitar- it is a very fine instrument found amidst a very lucky set of circumstances. Kinda like my $1200 Bourgeois OM-18...

[yadman1]

I currently own a Spruce top Dauphin and a Cedar top Ramirez 4E. Both guitars are handcrafted in Spain. I have always liked the spruce but when I got my Ramirez I was blown away. It has an incredible range with the Bass and Treble. I am probably going to sell my Dauphin. The Dauphin company no longer exists. I believe the one I have was built in 1997. I'd have to double check the label. If you are interested I can provide some photos.

By the way, I own a Larrivee LV09e also and I'd put it against a Taylor any day.

[Zim]

Those look nice.

What else is out there? I know about Rodriquez already (just saw they were bought by Fender... how disappointing).


No, Fender carries the line for Rodriquez, but not anymore. They are still made by Rodriquez.

[daddyo]

This thread is a year old.

[The Pup]

I have a Hippner than sounds like a grand piano...it will fill the hall for sure.

Cedar and very rare Brazilian birds-eye!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14827248-e5b7-01800200-.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14658116-3906-01800200-.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14827263-6c6f-02000180-.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14827264-faf6-02000180-.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14827405-5c31-02000180--1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/14918951-52ec-02000180-.jpg

[riffmeister]

I've always just played classical stuff on my Larrivee (yes, I know, that's terrible), but lately I've become very interested in actually getting a very nice classical.

Could someone point me in the direction of the best builders? Money is not really a huge problem - I mean, I don't want to (and won't) spend $20,000, but several thousand wouldn't be a huge problem.

If this isn't the place to ask (or there is a better one), could someone please show me?

Thanks.

How are you enjoying that beautiful Cohen?

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/riffmeister_photos/brian_cohen_sm.jpg

[go7]

These are Awesome.www.mangore.com/contrera.html . Good Luck!