Thorn Guitars Suspends New Orders

[clarkram]

Most of you probably frequent the Thorn discussion site, if not Ron posted a long post this morning about not taking new orders for awhile.

Just a heads up. Glad I've got my 2 Thorns already.

[Quinny]

Fair play to him. Sounds like a wise decision.... respect!

Q.

[AJ Love]

From the perspective of someone who doesn't currently own a Thorn Guitar and was considering making an order in the near future:

I absolutely and completely understand and respect Mr Thorn's point of view and decision! I hope he just does what he needs to do and I hope he enjoys getting back to the full-time fun of working on making guitars instead of spending so much time dealing with prospective orders,

I have no doubt that, down the line when the time is right, I'll get a chance to make an order. Plus, this'll give me more time to save up $$$

[John Hurtt]

Ron's post was done last night, and it is very straightforward. He's worried about the backlog, and wants to get orders down to a manageable level. I admire his openness about this, another reason he's earned tons of respect with me. :)

[GuitarGuy510]

Yeah Ron's a cool guy. I'm glad he's also straightforward with stuff like that, other builders might have just kept taking on orders and never said a word to the customers about the backlog getting to be too great. Good on Ron for doing the cool thing. Now I have to find a way to save up like 12K so I can order 3 Artisan Masters when the doors open up for new orders.... hehehehe..... :dude

[AJ Love]

Ron's post was a fascinating look into the decisions that must be made by an extremely successful builder:

Raise prices to the point where only the very wealthy can afford the guitars...
OR
Hire help and roll the dice on quality being the same
OR
Suspend taking new orders until the backlog can be filled.

I think he made a very wise decision

[Mickey_C]

I think it's super cool that Ron is concerned about actually getting the guitars out that he's currently responsible for at the high-quality people expect from Thorn.

I know many other manufacturers would just see this as an opportunity to expand, and keep pulling in the cash; we've all seen it happen before.

Hat's off to Ron Thorn for keeping Thorn guitars a true Artisan luthier shop!

Mickey C.

[Donnie B.]

Hats off to Ron! :AOK

[big mike]

Another that is really in awe of how true Ron is to his vision of his guitars, and how much respect he has for the people buying them. We've all seen the horror stories when other luthiers have tried to just cope, and backlogs that mount up, and mount up, as well as the backlash and ill will it eventually brings.

I think while some will feel it's not the best business move from a commodity standpoint, I respect it as one from an artist making sure his quality and customer committment will not suffer. Shows a HUGE amount of integrity.

[jamess]

Having followed the growth of Thorn Guitars for a few years now, I think Ron's decision to suspend orders to catch up with an ever growing backlog is a smart choice. In the long run I believe everyone will be better off for it, including Ron (he's got to life a live too, you know!), his long-term business, and his customers.

[AJ Love]

I think while some will feel it's not the best business move from a commodity standpoint, I respect it as one from an artist making sure his quality and customer committment will not suffer. Shows a HUGE amount of integrity.

A Huge +1!

Ron's decison shows bigtime class and reflects true dedication to his art.

[John Bell]

As always...total respect for the man who builds the worlds best guitar.

[MattB]

Great Decision Ron! This will give me time to put some money aside to finally order mine! :)

[Mike Dresch]

Kudos to Ron! A very intelligent decision that's good for you and your customers! I wish more small builders would follow in your footsteps.

[alanbass1]

It's a shame others do not follow the same line. I remember the pain waiting for my DeTemple, which was 20 months in the making against a 6 - 8 month waiting list quote. Someone I know was quoted 18 months for delivery and he has waited 3 years now and still waiting!

[Shreve]

That action speaks volumes...:AOK

[sleepingtiger]

Honesty....it's a wonderful & refreshing concept!

[joel]

Wow, I'm glad Ron's business and reputation are doing so well. He surely deserves the success. It brings back memories of when he first announced he'd be making guitars on this forum. I'd only ever heard of his inlay work, but he was offering the design I wanted at an unbelievable price. So I took a chance and became the delighted owner of #006. I have to laugh now, because Ron apologized profusely when it took 7 months to deliver. I'd meant to put in an order for #66 as well, but the dot.bomb happened and I missed my chance due to 'having been made redundant'. Ah, well, #006 continues to delight. Maybe I'll have enough pennies saved up for another one when he starts taking orders again. I'm thinking flamey redwood on limba, h/s/h.

[Diablo]

Congratulations Ron on making the wise choice to control quality and be able to get guitars done the way you want them done!

Ron and I talked last week, as we are in very similar situations, and we found that we both have the same problems. I haven’t taken a new order in the last two and a half months. I don’t see how either of us can. I was thinking that I would not be taking new orders for at least 6 months or until I was at least half way through my backlog. I found Ron was in the same boat. Lots of phone calls, tons of email coming in needing attention and many other things. It gets to where it is almost impossible to get anything done. I’d been thinking of options too and decided the same thing. I wanted to outsource and hire people, but we had the same concerns. So, thus far, I have decided to outsource the metal in the next few months but have not hired any help yet. It is really hard to hire someone to do the stuff that has taken years to get good at. You can’t just hire anyone to do this stuff when it’s your name on the guitar. So, for now, I’m concentrating on finishing the ones that people have been patiently waiting for. I found that if I don’t worry about the metal stuff, I can get 4 guitars done in the time it takes to do one metal setup

It has been a really good thing. For example, even with a broken arm, I was able to get another 22 guitars almost ready to spray. That will be 31 guitars that are almost ready to dye and spray. If my arm can allow me to buff, which I think that I can now, I have 10 guitars sitting here with their final coats and ready to buff. I called my truss rod guy last Friday, and he is supposed to bring me 100 truss rods and 100 screws today. That means that those 22 can get done. I hope to be able to focus all of my attention on making the best guitar that I can. I have never raised prices this entire decade, since I want people who actually play to be able to get them, and that might be one of the reasons that I am backordered well over 100 guitars. I have guitars going all over the world. I hope to be able to just concentrate on getting these done now and making those people who have waited happy in a much more timely fashion. It seems to be working better for me so, Ron, I hope that it allows you to get your orders filled too. I’m going to fly out and deliver 4 guitars to California and bring you some koa and BRW for Paul’s guitars while I’m out there.

[dwes]

Ron's a classy gent!
Good move.
Dave

[mgrier1]

Ron,

All the best, brother... Always a pleasure to speak with you and stop by the shop... It is like a quick seminar in luthiery and art...

Glad to have my orders in the queue, I must say, but the most important thing is family and then the work...

Look forward to meeting up soon.

Best,

Mike

[daoinnyc]

Seems like Ron made a sound business decision. From the amount of detail in his post, it looks like he didnt make this decision overnite. Ron, I barely know ya, hell I don't know ya at all, just a handful of phonecalls and e mails over the course of about a year now. You seemed like a stand up guy from day one. If you feel this is best for your company I'm behind ya. Kudos. If I was wearing a hat it would be off too ya.


Joe..........u mentioned my wood.:drool :crazy :RoCkIn :BEER :dude

[Scott Peterson]

One of the most intelligent ways to deal with the issue; far smarter than some other small builders that create such ill will trying to appease *everyone* new and old.

This is simply doing what you have to do, when you need to do it, and how it should be done.

Bravo for having the cajones to make the decision and then act on it. It says volumes about the character of the man.

Thumbs way up from me.

[Glowing Tubes]

One of the most intelligent ways to deal with the issue; far smarter than some other small builders that create such ill will trying to appease *everyone* new and old.

This is simply doing what you have to do, when you need to do it, and how it should be done.

Bravo for having the cajones to make the decision and then act on it. It says volumes about the character of the man.

Thumbs way up from me.
Couldnt have put it better.

I've had builders promise guitars in 4 months only to deliver in 10, leaving both of us less than satisified with the process. This is a bold, refreshing step. Cudos to Ron.

RC

[Ron Thorn]

Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement. This past weekend reminded me of the day I walked into the boss-man's office at my previous job and said, "that's it...wish me luck.. I'm doing my own thing now." That was almost 10 years ago.
It's a scary decision, but one I feel is best for most everyone.
Don't worry...once I get caught up, I'll be back :BEER

Thanks again!
Ron

[Chun13]

TUM TUM TUM TI DI DUM TI DI DUM

(emperor march)

Again, we're very supportive of your decision (I'm biased, I received my wonder instrument) because you've always put your passion in front, thank you !

[slipbeer]

As someone who makes his living trying to conjure miracles for Fortune 500 greedheads, I find it so refreshing and honorable to find situations where someone is more interested in doing the right thing than padding the order book.

[graydane]

Only the highest respect for you Ron with this business decision. INTEGRITY!!!!!!!!

You like your guitars are one of a kind.

Dane

[JMC]

This past weekend reminded me of the day I walked into the boss-man's office at my previous job and said, "that's it...wish me luck.. I'm doing my own thing now." That was almost 10 years ago.
It's a scary decision, but one I feel is best for most everyone.

Ron

slight thread hijack...

There is something quite satisfying about quitting a job, huh? I quit my job in KY to move to TX. Looked online but never found a job... finally took the plunge, quit and moved, flying by the seat of my pants, no job, no income... now I have a job that I love and get to work mostly from home... sometimes things just work out.. but that day that I quit my job in KY, it was like a weight was lifted... felt really good. No one should work in a job they dread...

[emjee]

Here here! I feel as though I must add my two cents. It took me twenty years to realize that the biggest mistake one can make is to stop looking for a job even though you already have one. UNLESS its a job where you are the head man, and you wouldnt be happier anywhere else. Because even if you have a job working for fourty dollars an hour, there is still no reason to stop looking for one that pays fourty five ...UNLESS you love doing what you do for fourty and I mean truly LOVE, like Ron must.

[dbaldice]

A refreshing thread, to say the least. Some of us have been waiting over 3 YEARS for our boutique guitars to be built. ( I doubt Thorn is that bad ) It is a ridiculous wait time, and if the boutique builders would be up front about it I think some would still wait and others would look elsewhere, avoiding the negativity that naturally ensues from having such a large amount of money tied up for waaaaay too long......

[Jon Silberman]

Everyone I've ever met who has ever dealt with Ron on anything has only the highest possible opinion of his work, integrity, and people skills so this latest move surprises me not at all. I do have one future-oriented question, though. Is this approach truly the fairest possible way to prioritize people for future orders when they resume?

The reason I ask is, if you keep taking orders, even if you tell the orderers (is that a word) that you can guarantee nothing as to the start time for their guitars, at least then you have a queue established based on application order. But it seems to me that if you stop even accepting applications for new orders, presumably that means that at some future date, an announcement will be made that applications are now being accepted again. When that happens, instead of having a list of folks in order of who contacted you first over a long time, whoever happens to be on-line first or who gets a quick call from a friend or Thorn-follower the fastest will be able to contact Ron first and hence skip to the front of the new queue.

Does this question/scenario make sense to y'all?

[blrogers]

yes there is that possibilty.

I dont know if you read Ron"s post on the Thorn Forum but, he lays it out pretty clear why he's doing it that way. It seems that with the nature of a custom guitar order he now spends the bulk of his time answering phone calls/emails about specs, order changes, what ifs, so hows my guitar coming?'s and that stuff and not enough time building guitars. which he doesnt think is fare to the people that he has already taken money from as deposit.

Honestly, those guys over there at the thorn forum already have like 10 guitars speced out, either on order or planning to order. So you would have to fend them off with a gun to stop them from rushing the gates when the moritorium is lifted.:)


B

[Jon Silberman]

My last comment on the approach - an alternative could be to say if you want to be inserted in the queue for when the time comes, send a minor amount of money or even just an email or letter asking for it. And that's all. No talking about features, timing, nothing, just this. All you get in return is your place in the queue and an eventual email when I ("Ron") decide I'm ready to resume accepting orders.

P.S. I sure hope no one here twists this suggestion into a criticism of Ron or an attempt to tell him how to run his business. It's simply a potential option posted for potential consideration! End of story.

[Serious Poo]

My last comment on the approach - an alternative could be to say if you want to be inserted in the queue for when the time comes, send a minor amount of money or even just an email or letter asking for it. And that's all. No talking about features, timing, nothing, just this. All you get in return is your place in the queue and an eventual email when I ("Ron") decide I'm ready to resume accepting orders.

P.S. I sure hope no one here twists this suggestion into a criticism of Ron or an attempt to tell him how to run his business. It's simply a potential option posted for potential consideration! End of story.

I think the whole point of Ron's actions is to prevent any sort of administrative overhead associated with spec'ing out and ordering new guitars. By creating a waiting list of any kind, he's opening the door to the exact same problems that have been preventing him from fulfilling his current orders. People may not intend to take his time but the truth is that even beginning the discussion about a potential guitar can take hours, and would impact Ron's ability to meet his current obligations. Hope that helps.

[phretbored]

This is a great move on Ron's part.
He can focus on completing existing orders while maintaining a reasonable queue.
Ron has a stellar reputation so he will have no problem getting more orders when the time comes to accept them again.
Anybody who is seriously contemplating ordering a guitar from Ron will be paying attention enough to know when orders start up again.

[Jon Silberman]

Anybody who is seriously contemplating ordering a guitar from Ron will be paying attention enough to know when orders start up again.
That's the problem. Even if you're trying to pay close attention, you have to sleep, work, take the kids out for the day, whatever. I don't have to repeat here how great Ron's guitars are and how the word on 'em's spreading every day. Say he resumes taking orders in 6 months, there could be 100 people lined up waiting to order one. Then it's essentially luck of the draw as to who calls or emails first based on when they lucked out as to learning of the opportunity.

I guess I'm reacting now in part to my own personal past experience in these situations. I'm not constantly on the internet like a lot of other folks here appear to be and I'm often away for days on business travel without internet access. Not that I'm currently contemplating ordering a Thorn anyway (can't afford one but I'm set now with my current stable anyways) but basically someone like me is screwed without a "first in, first out" queue of some sort.

And I'm talking now only of a queue, not (as Serious Poo suggests) the begininning of repeated conversations. Wouldn't it be simple to make this clear at the outset. For example, a website link marked "New Orders" that reads when you click on it:

"Thorn Guitars is not presently taking new orders so that we can clear our current backlog. If you want to be contacted regarding a new Thorn when we again accept new orders, enter your name, phone number, and email address into the form below and click the send button. IMPORTANT: Due to the present situation, it will not be possible to reply to your submission or discuss any aspect of your potential future order at this time (please do NOT ask us to do so)."

[kovachian]

I'm sorry that this is slightly OT but I found this pic recently and thought I'd share for some strange reason. So which one is Mr. Thorn? Any members here who happen to be in this pic?

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/1806/50110426a14kh0.jpg

[Shreve]

Front,crouching

[phretbored]

And I'm talking now only of a queue, not (as Serious Poo suggests) the begininning of repeated conversations. Wouldn't it be simple to make this clear at the outset. For example, a website link marked "New Orders" that reads when you click on it:

"Thorn Guitars is not presently taking new orders so that we can clear our current backlog. If you want to be contacted regarding a new Thorn when we again accept new orders, enter your name, phone number, and email address into the form below and click the send button. IMPORTANT: Due to the present situation, it will not be possible to reply to your submission or discuss any aspect of your potential future order at this time (please do NOT ask us to do so)."

Yes something along the lines of your example would be cool.

[Colt]

I'm moving to Mississippi to help rebuild after the hurricain...and I should finally start making some good money....I plan on FINALLY ordering me thorn here in a few month...when he starts taking orders again...I've talked with Ron a few times on the phone over the last few years...but some emergency came up for the money I had saved, and had to spend it elsewhere. I met Ron at Crossroads Guitar festival...he was kinda freaked out someone recognised him on just appearance out of the crowed. I told him it was like meeting Leo Fender :-) I can't wait to have a Thorn........Ron Thorn is good people. How often do you find a nice, honest man in any kind of buisness now days?

[Mrgearguy]

First off, I'd like to state that I'm a big fan of the fabulous work of Ron Thorn.

However, I just don't see how this changes anything. Except to ease Ron's mind that people aren't waiting and waiting and waiting.

There's still a waiting list, it's just not one that Thorn recognizes. When the announcement is made there may or may not be a scramble to get into line. The only thing I can see that it affects is that just because you've waited three years for the announcement will mean nothing. A guy who only hears about these instruments the day before they go on sale again has just as much chance of getting one as you do. This could be a good thing.

I think that this is a tough decision for anyone to make, and there's a downside to everything. The marketing advantage of this decision should be obvious from this thread. If Henry did this with Gibson, everyone would be calling him an A-hole. Because we tend to admire small builders who go it alone, this is being viewed in a positive light. In the long run, it's Ron's choice to make, and I take it as just that.

[Brian Scherzer]

Ron, you're taking the easy way out. How hard would it REALLY be to simply grow another head and pair of arms? ;)

Solid move, IMO!

[big mike]

THere's a big difference between Henry and Ron.

Henry is not as upstanding as Ron. YEs I'm a fan of the man and the guitars. And the decision.

When he's ready to re-open orders, I'm sure Ron will do it in a manner that's best for the Thorn Guitars Business. THats what it is, that's how he needs to treat it. He'll do it the best way he knows how, like he does everything.

[scott]

Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. 14 and 16 hour days suck big time guys. Even if its guitars your makin, you will eventually burn out and it wont be fun anymore. The guy needs a life, also hes got to keep the woman happy too. Ive had more than one woman leave me because of Heatley Guitars but thats another story all together.
Its funny, no matter what type of decision a guy makes everyone else thinks they have a better idea or can do it better.
I dont hire a guy for the same reason Ron wont. No one else can be trusted with a guitar that has my name on the headstock.......simple as that.
Good luck Ron.


www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)

[big mike]

Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. 14 and 16 hour days suck big time guys. Even if its guitars your makin, you will eventually burn out and it wont be fun anymore. The guy needs a life, also hes got to keep the woman happy too. Ive had more than one woman leave me because of Heatley Guitars but thats another story all together.
Its funny, no matter what type of decision a guy makes everyone else thinks they have a better idea or can do it better.
I dont hire a guy for the same reason Ron wont. No one else can be trusted with a guitar that has my name on the headstock.......simple as that.
Good luck Ron.


www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)



Wow. More thoughts to chew on there.

[paintguy]

Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. 14 and 16 hour days suck big time guys. Even if its guitars your makin, you will eventually burn out and it wont be fun anymore. The guy needs a life, also hes got to keep the woman happy too. Ive had more than one woman leave me because of Heatley Guitars but thats another story all together.
Its funny, no matter what type of decision a guy makes everyone else thinks they have a better idea or can do it better.
I dont hire a guy for the same reason Ron wont. No one else can be trusted with a guitar that has my name on the headstock.......simple as that.
Good luck Ron.


www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)

I think the line you said before "Good luck Ron" says it all and pretty much nails how Ron probably feels. My respect for Heatly guitars just went up 10 fold.( not that my respect was low before)

Larry

[AJ Love]

Its funny, no matter what type of decision a guy makes everyone else thinks they have a better idea or can do it better.

No kidding. Great post... Somehow I think Ron knows what is best for Ron...

[Karmateria]

No kidding. Great post... Somehow I think Ron knows what is best for Ron...

I agree! He sure knows how to market himself!
Karma

[Jon Silberman]

In my view, Ron markets himself primarily by building what many consider to be among the finest guitars ever built. (You have to have played one to understand.)

[John Hurtt]

In my view, Ron markets himself primarily by building what many consider to be among the finest guitars ever built. (You have to have played one to understand.)

Yep, the guy is one of the most humble and down to earth guys I've ever met. And, his guitars are "all that and a bag of chips". :JAM

[Old Tele man]

...Ron sounds like a: "...don't TELL me, SHOW me..." kinda guy,

...ie: "...don't yak that you're "good," show me the actual product of your work!"

[big mike]

Yep, the guy is one of the most humble and down to earth guys I've ever met. And, his guitars are "all that and a bag of chips". :JAM

Make that a bucket of chips, some quesadillas and a case of Dr. Pepper.

[phretbored]

I really enjoy looking at the Thorn gallery.
It's overwhelming.

[Jerrod]

I'm a capitalist... I would raise my prices a little.

[John Page]

As a guitar builder, I would think that the customer wants every bit of positive quality and detail we can put into a guitar. When our schedules suggest to us otherwise, it's time for us to take back the control. Every single one of you out there that will buy a Thorn, will thank him for this decision. Art, precision and soul cannot be rushed... period. Kudos Ron!

[Ron Thorn]

Thank you John, thank you very much.
Also, thank you much for allowing me to get my foot in the Fender door 10+ years ago - giving George Amicay the okay to let me inlay a tree-of-life on a fingerboard for him. The moment you said yes completely redirected my life :AOK

Ron Thorn

[John Page]

Ron,
Your work then justified my decision. Your work today proves your how talented you truly are. I'm very proud to have played even a small role in the helping you down the path you're now on. Congratulatons on all of your success! Maybe someday you'll consider doing an inlay on one of my new P-1's ?

[JDJ]

John and Ron, you guys are a class act... I love to see the professional affection here. Thanks for sharing that bit of history.

[grapeshot]

Good! Gives me time to save up for what I want!

[Gerald Johnson]

I have to say I find it really uplifting to see such luminaries as Scott Heatley, John Page and Ron Thorn sharing their respect for each other in such an open manner. I believe they all know what`s best for their art and business. We let them build their guitars their way, so I reckon we`ll be happy letting them run their business their way. Good for you, fellas!

Gerald.:BEER

[Jon Silberman]

Gerald, you would have enjoyed Paul Reed Smith and Ron sitting together at the dinner at our final PRS Forum event discussing guitars and the like throughout the dinner (this after someone showed Paul a Thorn and he was mightily impressed).

[graydane]

Gerald, you would have enjoyed Paul Reed Smith and Ron sitting together at the dinner at our final PRS Forum event discussing guitars and the like throughout the dinner (this after someone showed Paul a Thorn and he was mightily impressed).



I believe the comment Paul made standing addressing the entire crowd was "A wise man keeps his freinds close and his enemies even closer, Hey Ron your eating dinner next to me" Paul had just met Ron. Ron was there beacause he had designed and created some trussrod covers for the forum. Some pople who had his guitars brought them along with their PRSi, and yes Paul was pretty blown away.

[Brian Scherzer]

I believe the comment Paul made standing addressing the entire crowd was "A wise man keeps his freinds close and his enemies even closer, Hey Ron your eating dinner next to me" Paul had just met Ron. Ron was there beacause he had designed and created some trussrod covers for the forum. Some pople who had his guitars brought them along with their PRSi, and yes Paul was pretty blown away.

Wow! Jon's and this post sure brought a wave of nostalgia over me! I miss the comraderie that the PRS Forum Events brought, and I have very few truly good musician stories to tell since that last Event! I fully expected Paul to roast me for allowing non-PRS guitars to make their way to the last Event. It turned out to be no problem.

[Shreve]

I remember just hanging out at the Thorn table pretty much that whole evening. I had just placed an order for Ron to build #22, and I was PUMPED! It was fun to meet Ron face to face, too. Much younger than I anticipated.

A while back, while attending a PRS guitar exhibit in Easton, MD, Paul was doing a meet & greet, and I got him to sign a PRS backplate. I casually mentioned I had just taken delivery of a Thorn guitar. He grinned from ear to ear and just shook his head!

[Chiba]

Everybody around here knows I'm a Ron supporter, at least until it cuts off the circulation in my feet.

To throw in a bit... my sister's ex is a custom hot-rod builder and restorer and additionally does custom paint for just about any size vehicle. Because he's skilled - and his skills in his field measure up to people like Ron in the guitar world - about 3 yrs ago he found himself constantly plugging away at a backlog, just like Ron, Joe, Scott, and other custom guitar builders.

I was at his shop helping him set up a new computer, website, e-mail, Quicken, etc. so he could streamline some of his accounting and communication tasks and we got to talking about his backlog.

He had to do the same thing Ron's done - cut off orders until he can clear his backlog. He started a waiting list (like some of y'all are advocating) but he did it in what I thought is a cool way (OK, cool because it was my suggestion!! hahaha no seriously).

He had this (ever growing) waiting list of names & phone numbers. Once he got his backlog under control, and then as he would finish a few projects and get a handle on his delivery times, he'd start calling at the top of the list. "Hey man, you still want me to do that rod (or paint) work for you?"

If the answer was "yes", no problem, they entered into the specs & contracts phase. If the answer was "no", he moved on to the next name on the list.

He can do about 8 whole cars a year and between 30-35 full paint jobs; his wait list for each type of project is about double what he can do in a year - but ever since he incorporated "the list" he hasn't missed delivery by more than a few weeks, and each time he's missed delivery it's been because of the availability of parts for the project, not because he fell behind in the schedule.

The point is, no details about the project get discussed until the name comes OFF the waiting list and goes ON the build list.

Anyway, that's my otherwise useless 2 cents.

--chiba

[John Hurtt]

Everybody around here knows I'm a Ron supporter, at least until it cuts off the circulation in my feet.

To throw in a bit... my sister's ex is a custom hot-rod builder and restorer and additionally does custom paint for just about any size vehicle. Because he's skilled - and his skills in his field measure up to people like Ron in the guitar world - about 3 yrs ago he found himself constantly plugging away at a backlog, just like Ron, Joe, Scott, and other custom guitar builders.

I was at his shop helping him set up a new computer, website, e-mail, Quicken, etc. so he could streamline some of his accounting and communication tasks and we got to talking about his backlog.

He had to do the same thing Ron's done - cut off orders until he can clear his backlog. He started a waiting list (like some of y'all are advocating) but he did it in what I thought is a cool way (OK, cool because it was my suggestion!! hahaha no seriously).

He had this (ever growing) waiting list of names & phone numbers. Once he got his backlog under control, and then as he would finish a few projects and get a handle on his delivery times, he'd start calling at the top of the list. "Hey man, you still want me to do that rod (or paint) work for you?"

If the answer was "yes", no problem, they entered into the specs & contracts phase. If the answer was "no", he moved on to the next name on the list.

He can do about 8 whole cars a year and between 30-35 full paint jobs; his wait list for each type of project is about double what he can do in a year - but ever since he incorporated "the list" he hasn't missed delivery by more than a few weeks, and each time he's missed delivery it's been because of the availability of parts for the project, not because he fell behind in the schedule.

The point is, no details about the project get discussed until the name comes OFF the waiting list and goes ON the build list.

Anyway, that's my otherwise useless 2 cents.

--chiba

Sounds like a pretty good idea.

[Jon Silberman]

My last comment on the approach - an alternative could be to say if you want to be inserted in the queue for when the time comes, send a minor amount of money or even just an email or letter asking for it. And that's all. No talking about features, timing, nothing, just this. All you get in return is your place in the queue and an eventual email when I ("Ron") decide I'm ready to resume accepting orders.

''.