Are mid hump pedals necessary to cut thru band mix?

[Leb]

any thoughts :D
do u think a transparent OD can cut thru equally well?

Leb

[jero]

mid hump is not necessary imo, as long as your clean sound cuts through

mid cut is killing

[Sid]

a lil bit of mids never hurt anyone:AOK

[Tuberattler]

That's one reason the tubescreamer has been popular all these years, it makes your amp sound fat and you cut through loud and clear.

[StompBoxBlues]

I know I'll never counter this "myth" but I gotta try one more time.

Lumping things into "bass" "mid" and "treble" is a useful concept...but please remember that any one of those categories are "broad brushes", not laserlike concepts. In fact, ask different companies, or different engineers, or technicians to define the freq range of "mids" and you get "oh...from about...to about...". We all know 40 hz is a bass frequency, but when it gets up to the top of the bass range, where exactly does it end?
And more important, how does it sound?

What I mean is, there are mids and there are mids. They cover a large amount of frequencies, AND if you've ever played around with EQ pedal, you can easily HEAR that some mids are "good mids" and some are "middy"..I think some of the boxy ones are what a lot of folk mean when they complain about mid-humps. And of course it is the mixture of freqs that makes the overal sound.

But (YMMV) with a Zendrive for one example, he is still raising SOME mid frequencies, but not at all, to my ears, the unwanted mids, but only some select mids. Makes it sound really nice alone, but FANTASTIC in the mix. But it doesn't (to me) sound "middy" or boxy, or diminished....in fact it gives the illusion anyway of sounding more full and even with whatever freqs he is boosting slightly.

Too often I see that we all complain about "mids" but it's like complaining about "weather" instead of complaining about "rain"...

What most don't want is the boxiness, or the telephone-booth sound.

[Sid]

Stb:
+100

[Cary Chilton]

no, not at all.... It depends what your amp, speakers, gain and EQ settings are. For the early Fender amp owners, a mid-hump-type pedal will help out a lot.

[Leb]

I was thinking of changing my SD1 (Lots of mid hump) to a screwdriver which is pretty transparent... juz afraid i will get lost in the mix.. :D

[Phil M]

That's one reason the tubescreamer has been popular all these years, it makes your amp sound fat and you cut through loud and clear.

Amen. I love that sound when there is another guitarist. If it's a power trio, I need less of a cut.

[Tonemeister69]

That's one reason the tubescreamer has been popular all these years, it makes your amp sound fat and you cut through loud and clear.

Exactly. Midrange makes the world go 'round :RoCkIn

[Big Bob]

Mid-Hump or transparent?
For me you gotta have both. I have a Keeley BD, TS9 (a particularly good sounding one) and an AC Booster.

As far as cutting throught the stage mix is concerned....its a combination of what you and the other guys are playing and the tonal signature of the room you are in. If I find my sound getting lost I'll play something different. Sometimes its just a matter of raising a single note in a chord up an octave. Sometimes I'll goose the mids on the amp slightly.

Bob

[Uma Floresta]

I know I'll never counter this "myth" but I gotta try one more time.

Lumping things into "bass" "mid" and "treble" is a useful concept...but please remember that any one of those categories are "broad brushes", not laserlike concepts. In fact, ask different companies, or different engineers, or technicians to define the freq range of "mids" and you get "oh...from about...to about...". We all know 40 hz is a bass frequency, but when it gets up to the top of the bass range, where exactly does it end?
And more important, how does it sound?

What I mean is, there are mids and there are mids. They cover a large amount of frequencies, AND if you've ever played around with EQ pedal, you can easily HEAR that some mids are "good mids" and some are "middy"..I think some of the boxy ones are what a lot of folk mean when they complain about mid-humps. And of course it is the mixture of freqs that makes the overal sound.

But (YMMV) with a Zendrive for one example, he is still raising SOME mid frequencies, but not at all, to my ears, the unwanted mids, but only some select mids. Makes it sound really nice alone, but FANTASTIC in the mix. But it doesn't (to me) sound "middy" or boxy, or diminished....in fact it gives the illusion anyway of sounding more full and even with whatever freqs he is boosting slightly.

Too often I see that we all complain about "mids" but it's like complaining about "weather" instead of complaining about "rain"...

What most don't want is the boxiness, or the telephone-booth sound.

Great post. So which midrange frequencies, specifically, do you think are the ones that are best for guitar? Which ones are to be avoided?

[yZe]

But (YMMV)
For weeks I have been trying to decipher this acronym, by trying to read the context, etc . . but I give up on YMMV

please enlighten

Okay, got it off google
Your Mileage May Vary

[Realfi]

A pedal with a mid-hump can do a nice job of filling in the mid-dip of some amps, and that can certainly help you cut through the mix.

On the other hand, with an amp that is already rich in those very same frequencies a pedal with a mid-hump can make things pretty cloudy, coloured and un-defined and that's not going to help you cut through at all.

[Moe45673]

Great post. So which midrange frequencies, specifically, do you think are the ones that are best for guitar? Which ones are to be avoided?
As in everything about EQ-ing, it's purely subjective, but generally the Hz between 400-800 are considered boxy and sound best cut. This, btw, does not apply to 400 Hz or 800 Hz, both of which can sound great if used tastefully.

On the other hand, with an amp that is already rich in those very same frequencies a pedal with a mid-hump can make things pretty cloudy, coloured and un-defined and that's not going to help you cut through at all.

Do you find Marshall amps are mid heavy? I generally use JCM 800s (on clean settings) at my rehearsal space, and with my modded SD-1 it doesn't sound too great (though I do cut through like leatherface), even with the band (keys, bass, drums, and me). I'm thinking of using my bad monkey instead

[StompBoxBlues]

Great post. So which midrange frequencies, specifically, do you think are the ones that are best for guitar? Which ones are to be avoided?

Uma, thanks. Sorry, I don't know which frequencies offhand are those, but I really ought to spend some time with my Zendrive, EQ, and Blues Pro (earlier version before the fuzz switch) and see if in a band setting I can get the BP to cut through more like the Zendrive does.

I agree with moe (above) about the frequencies. It DOES depend on the setup, etc, but also in there somewhere you do have the ZD which, reading other peoples experience that mirrors mine, seems to cut through nicely for a LOT of folks, presumably all with different setups, styles of music, and bands..so there most likely are some frequencies that if boosted the right amount (and it also has to do with the frequencies around it, and the "Q" or width of the bands of frequencies) etc that can help a lot.

I am trying to train myself to hear it, but so far haven't...though spending time playing with a good EQ pedal helps as I can adjust my EQ pretty fast, to help a LOT but it differs from night to night where that is...anyway, I thought the BP would cut through well, and with my setup it didn't.

[Bryan T]

Great post. So which midrange frequencies, specifically, do you think are the ones that are best for guitar? Which ones are to be avoided?
I'm not the original poster, but I'll take a stab at it, at least with my ears and equipment. Obviously, the EQ curve of your amp, your guitar, and your pedals will affect everything.

I play a telecaster or a 335-style guitar through a '65 Princeton Reverb set basically flat (though with the characteristic scooped mids of a blackface Fender) using a variety of pedals for OD/fuzz/distortion. I'll use a Boss EQ to get the dirt pedals to sound right. I find that boosting slightly at 1.6K and 3.2K really adds clarity to a pedal. I use that a lot with my Fulldrive 2 to get a more open sound. I also tend to cut the highest slider, which is 6.4K in order to get rid of the fizziness, though that is well into the treble range. I don't really mess with the bass or low-mid sliders.

Bryan

[Uma Floresta]

Thanks for the advice, guys. :dude