Tell me about these tubes..

[Mooncusser]

Hi all,

I collect old preamp tubes...I have quite a collection of them...I run into them because of my job. I have a collection of:
GE/ RCA / Ratheon (I'm not sure if the Ratheons are a relabled maunfacturer)/ Sylvania/ couple Telefeunkens, ect.......

I have come across a quad of Baldwin labled (Sylvania?) EL-84 (6BQ5's)
Are these worth anything or considered good tubes?
I know the Baldwin 12AX7a's are relabled Sylvanias.
Also,
I found an AMPEREX 6AQ8...what is this?
Thanks for the help.
I love this stuff.
Best regards,
Mass

[rockon1]

Hi all,

I collect old preamp tubes...I have quite a collection of them...I run into them because of my job. I have a collection of:
GE/ RCA / Ratheon (I'm not sure if the Ratheons are a relabled maunfacturer)/ Sylvania/ couple Telefeunkens, ect.......

I have come across a quad of Baldwin labled (Sylvania?) EL-84 (6BQ5's)
Are these worth anything or considered good tubes?
I know the Baldwin 12AX7a's are relabled Sylvanias.
Also,
I found an AMPEREX 6AQ8...what is this?
Thanks for the help.
I love this stuff.
Best regards,
Mass

Well saying GE,RCA,Raytheon means they are good stuff but without more description I cant say much more.Good pics help a lot. If you see any of the tubes you have on this site (picture library) you can provide a link to them and get feedback about the particular tube. Nothing like old glass eh?

https://69.36.182.51/NOS%20Tubes%20Picture%20Library/index.html

[DEMENTED]

Yeah , those are nice tubes! Baldwins are relabled for Baldwin Organs...is that what you got them out of?

[Mooncusser]

Yeah,
I got the Baldwins out of an organ...The quad of 6BQ5's and the Sylvania 12AX7A's and 12AX7's.
The RCA's....GE's....RCA's....and the Telefunkens were from other finds.
I hoard them lie they were gold...LOL!
I have always wanted to know what that Amperex 6AQ8 was though.
Thanks for the link...but it doesn't work right now.

BTW.......I LOVE North Stonington ,CT!
I was thinking about moving there at one point.
How do you like it?
Peace,
Mass

[rockon1]

I dont get it . It works for me. However a security measure comes up and asks if its ok to continue. Too bad its a great pic library.Ill try again

https://69.36.182.51/NOS%20Tubes%20Picture%20Library/index.html

if it doesnt work search "Tubemonger". The pic library is on his site.

[Timbre Wolf]

I know the Baldwin 12AX7a's are relabled Sylvanias. The "Baldwin" 12AX7A are not necessarily Sylvanias. Sylvania did make most long gray plate 12AX7 that were used in Baldwin organs, but Raytheon made the long black-plate/halo-getter 12AX7A used in Baldwin organs in the late '50s/early '60s, and they are, in my opinion, perhaps the best 12AX7 ever made - at least one of the top three.

In 1962, Raytheon began outsourcing their tube production to Japan. Those tubes were also used in Baldwin organs, but they are gray-plate. Look at internal construction clues to distinguish Sylvania from Japanese Raytheon gray-plate 12AX7, labeled "Baldwin."

- Thom

[rockon1]

Yeah, Ive got a lot of Baldwin/Raytheons.Pics please!:)

[Mooncusser]

The "Baldwin" 12AX7A are not necessarily Sylvanias. Sylvania did make most long gray plate 12AX7 that were used in Baldwin organs, but Raytheon made the long black-plate/halo-getter 12AX7A used in Baldwin organs in the late '50s/early '60s, and they are, in my opinion, perhaps the best 12AX7 ever made - at least one of the top three.

In 1962, Raytheon began outsourcing their tube production to Japan. Those tubes were also used in Baldwin organs, but they are gray-plate. Look at internal construction clues to distinguish Sylvania from Japanese Raytheon gray-plate 12AX7, labeled "Baldwin."

- Thom

Point well taken, and I appreciate that point. I thought Sylvania were Baldwin, but thank god you mentioned that because now I can retain that bit of info.
This particular Raytheon is labeled Raytheon 12AX7A.
I also have Baldwin labeled 12AX7A's...I'll check out the construction as you mentioned.
Currently I have an RCA in V1 in my Plexi, maybe I should give the Raytheon a shot.
But then, if I love it, it may be hard to locate more if needed and I will be spoiled..LOL
Peace,
Mass

[Dave C]

The 6AQ8 was used as an RF amplifier and "mixer" in the front end of FM radio receivers from what I've read. Doesn't look like it would have any guitar amp applications.
Dave C

[Timbre Wolf]

But then, if I love it, it may be hard to locate more if needed and I will be spoiled..LOL Fear not - they are still available. For me, the worst side-effect of discovering Raytheon black-plate 12AX7A has been that most people think I'm crazy when I scoff at short-plate Mullards and smooth-plate Telefunkens. But there is no contest, in my experience.

- T

[rockon1]

As you can (sort of ) see. A lot of these BP raytheons are Baldwin.http://tinypic.com/2ryjyfo.jpg

[uberpict]

It seems the Sylvania's have green labels and the Raytheons are yellow. The Sylvania's plates are very different from the others, they have a much narrower "rib" running down the center of the plate. I've got a few white labeled Baldwin's that are definitely RCA with an angled square getter and long grey plates, EIA codes match the RCA code 274.

Not sure if they're consistent with the color coding but so far the green/Sylvania, yellow/Raytheon and white/RCA seems to hold true from browsing around the web. Would you want to let go of a few of the green label Sylvania's? One of my particular favorites.

[Mooncusser]

WOW! :AOK

I can't speak right now...get back to you later.
Peace,
Mass

[Timbre Wolf]

It seems the Sylvania's have green labels and the Raytheons are yellow. The Sylvania's plates are very different from the others, they have a much narrower "rib" running down the center of the plate. I've got a few white labeled Baldwin's that are definitely RCA with an angled square getter and long grey plates, EIA codes match the RCA code 274.

Not sure if they're consistent with the color coding but so far the green/Sylvania, yellow/Raytheon and white/RCA seems to hold true from browsing around the web. Would you want to let go of a few of the green label Sylvania's? One of my particular favorites. You're talking about the long gray-plate Sylvanias, with the uniquely raised plate "rib." Yeah, I believe all those that I've seen labeled for organ companies have green print. Older, long black-plate Sylvania 12AX7s also have yellow print, but they're not typically found as organ OES.

Some older Raytheon tubes have red print, but generally, I'd agree with the green = Sylvania, yellow = Raytheon, white = RCA formula, during a certain era, for organ-manufacturer OES tubes. That's a good guide for the first glance. Then I'd look inside the tube for a final i.d., as those three have distinct innards.

What qualities, in particular, do you appreciate about the long gray-plate Sylvanias, uberpict?


- Thom

[uberpict]

You're talking about the long gray-plate Sylvanias, with the uniquely raised plate "rib." Yeah, I believe all those that I've seen labeled for organ companies have green print. Older, long black-plate Sylvania 12AX7s also have yellow print, but they're not typically found as organ OES.

Some older Raytheon tubes have red print, but generally, I'd agree with the green = Sylvania, yellow = Raytheon, white = RCA formula, during a certain era, for organ-manufacturer OES tubes. That's a good guide for the first glance. Then I'd look inside the tube for a final i.d., as those three have distinct innards.

What qualities, in particular, do you appreciate about the long gray-plate Sylvanias, uberpict?


- Thom

This is just a personal observation but they seem to handle higher gain applications without losing harmonic detail. I like them in the gain stages with an RCA in the input. One of those "wow, it works for me" kind of things that I discovered while swapping out assorted tubes.

The greyplate RCA has nice detail but when driven too much they can get harsh, IMHO. I'm still experimenting with tubes, that new Tung-Sol seems appealing, but I really like the grey plate RCA/Sylvania combination.

[Timbre Wolf]

This is just a personal observation but they seem to handle higher gain applications without losing harmonic detail. I like them in the gain stages with an RCA in the input. One of those "wow, it works for me" kind of things that I discovered while swapping out assorted tubes.

The greyplate RCA has nice detail but when driven too much they can get harsh, IMHO. I'm still experimenting with tubes, that new Tung-Sol seems appealing, but I really like the grey plate RCA/Sylvania combination. Cool! I thought people generally liked this Sylvania for greater gain/overdrive situations.

By the way, I like New Sensor's Russian "Tung Sol" fairly well - top of the new-production heap for me. When it comes to clarity, though, the other Baldwin 12AX7A, made by Raytheon, really does it for me. Some people go crazy over these and buy waaay more than they ever need :rotflmao(I'm only jealous, Bob!).

- Thom

[rockon1]

Fear not - they are still available. For me, the worst side-effect of discovering Raytheon black-plate 12AX7A has been that most people think I'm crazy when I scoff at short-plate Mullards and smooth-plate Telefunkens. But there is no contest, in my experience.

- T

Not everybody.:AOK Got about 50 Mullard and Amperex short plates I will get around to seling one day. Got no use for them. (or my smooth teles)

[rockon1]

This is just a personal observation but they seem to handle higher gain applications without losing harmonic detail. I like them in the gain stages with an RCA in the input. One of those "wow, it works for me" kind of things that I discovered while swapping out assorted tubes.

The greyplate RCA has nice detail but when driven too much they can get harsh, IMHO. I'm still experimenting with tubes, that new Tung-Sol seems appealing, but I really like the grey plate RCA/Sylvania combination.

I will have to get out some of my long grey plate Sylvania's again. In the past Ive found them to be lacking clarity under high gain applications.Perhaps some fiddling with these in the V2 is in order...

[uberpict]

I've noticed that too with the Sylvania's, not great in V1, that's where the RCA comes in. I first discovered the RCA rebranded as Magnavox for hi-fi use, bought them from a guy who actually lived near the Magnavox plant in Tennessee, and they have really good clarity and detail. Ideal in V1 if you're looking for maximum frequency response.

I was using the Sylvie's in V2 already with a GE in V1, popped the RCA in V1 and wow what a difference. The GE was good but the RCA brought the detail out and really sweetened the tone. Took some EQ tweaking (always) to really hit the sweet spot but I really like the combination. The Sylvies are really hot (they normally test way above normal on transconductance? IIRC) and the RCA's are really clear. Makes for smooth break-up across the entire spectrum and seemed to increase sustain quite a bit.

Interesting story about these tubes. My friend is a guitar tech extraordinaire (Tom's the man for any repair or set-up) and he has this old no-name hybrid amp, tube pre and solid state power amp. Well, the tubes started going bad so I gave him one RCA and one Sylvie to try in the amp. I still can't believe how good it sounds being what it is. He had an acoustic plugged into it today and it had this woody, sweet growl when it was pushed. Didn't feedback at all, just warm sweet tube tone, with a solid state power amp! The difference was like night and day when he switched those tubes in.
:dude

[uberpict]

Cool! I thought people generally liked this Sylvania for greater gain/overdrive situations.

By the way, I like New Sensor's Russian "Tung Sol" fairly well - top of the new-production heap for me. When it comes to clarity, though, the other Baldwin 12AX7A, made by Raytheon, really does it for me. Some people go crazy over these and buy waaay more than they ever need :rotflmao(I'm only jealous, Bob!).

- Thom

There's another one to add to the list of must try tubes, LOL. It gets longer with each visit here. :messedup

One good thing about the organ tubes, they're still available in larger quantities at relatively low cost. Well compared to Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex. Plus they're usually sorted and graded for musical instrument use and sound great if you don't mind you're guitar sounding like an organ. :D :D

[Timbre Wolf]

There's another one to add to the list of must try tubes, LOL. It gets longer with each visit here. :messedup

One good thing about the organ tubes, they're still available in larger quantities at relatively low cost. Well compared to Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex. Plus they're usually sorted and graded for musical instrument use and sound great if you don't mind you're guitar sounding like an organ. :D :D Yep - nothing like a good ol' fashioned organ pull to spice things up :crazy

- T

[Mooncusser]

So let me ask you fellas a question.

I have in my 1959 SLP an RCA in V1, a Tungsol RI in V2, and an EH in V3.
I have one of the older red labled Raytheon 12AX7a's
I know I can swap and see, but what would you think about the Raytheon in V1, and the RCA in V2....Tungsol in V3?
BTW..............I know that Telefunkens are expensive and highly sought after. I have a Telefunken ECC83 diamond bottom and you know what, I don't much care for it's performance.
Does anyone else find that they don't care for the Telefunkens?
Take care,
Mass

[uberpict]

Yep - nothing like a good ol' fashioned organ pull to spice things up :crazy

- T

First instrument I learned to play was a pump organ. Heh-he-heh-he, he said pump organ. I still play pump organ once in awhile when the wife's PMSing, LOL. :D

That's actually true, BTW, played with that old thing until it wouldn't generate any noise at all. Oh hell, no matter how I try to tell that it's gonna sound like sophmoric humor. :D

[Timbre Wolf]

So let me ask you fellas a question.

I have in my 1959 SLP an RCA in V1, a Tungsol RI in V2, and an EH in V3.
I have one of the older red labled Raytheon 12AX7a's
I know I can swap and see, but what would you think about the Raytheon in V1, and the RCA in V2....Tungsol in V3? Yes, do it NOW. i think you'll like it

BTW..............I know that Telefunkens are expensive and highly sought after. I have a Telefunken ECC83 diamond bottom and you know what, I don't much care for it's performance.
Does anyone else find that they don't care for the Telefunkens? For the record, I also think Telefunken smooth plate ECC83 suck. Really!! I've never been able to find a place for them, and I've tried more than I normally would, just because of their mystique. They seriously lack clarity (its all relative, but I'm comparing them to lots of tubes that are routinely overlooked), and they feel un-dynamically sterile to me - and mine test as new. They're way, way down on my list of 12AX7 types. Feh!!

YMMV :rolleyes:

- Thom

[Timbre Wolf]

Heh-he-heh-he, he said pump organ.:D :crazyguy

'cause he's playin' all night
and the music's allright...

[uberpict]

LOL, my aunt had an old pump organ and taught me a C-major chord and how to play the C-major scale with it. A lot of the old sixties music had lot's of organ so I would try to duplicate it. Really hard when you can only play in C or a mode thereof. ;)

[go7]

:droolI also collect nos pre amp tubes. Nice pics:drool

[uberpict]

So let me ask you fellas a question.

I have in my 1959 SLP an RCA in V1, a Tungsol RI in V2, and an EH in V3.
I have one of the older red labled Raytheon 12AX7a's
I know I can swap and see, but what would you think about the Raytheon in V1, and the RCA in V2....Tungsol in V3?
BTW..............I know that Telefunkens are expensive and highly sought after. I have a Telefunken ECC83 diamond bottom and you know what, I don't much care for it's performance.
Does anyone else find that they don't care for the Telefunkens?
Take care,
Mass

I've become a firm believer in gradual gain staging; using a very "sensitive" tube in V1 with "hotter" tubes in V2 and higher. Not sure about each of those tubes but just swap them around until it sounds the best to your ears. It can't hurt and you might find the "magical" combination that works best for you.

I'll give the Telefunkens a whirl, my buddy had several from old stereo's he's collected. I believe they're more hi-fi oriented with a big soundstage and accurate music reproduction not production, they're certainly hyped up by the hi-fi crowd. Seems he had some Amperex as well but no Mullards, go figure. :messedup

[jspax7]

I'd love to get some of those Raytheon black plates myself. Anybody selling ANOS pulls?

[rockon1]

So let me ask you fellas a question.
.
Does anyone else find that they don't care for the Telefunkens?
Take care,
Mass

+2 here. Maybe good for uncolored Hi Fi apps but not for any of my guitar amps.Probably one of my biggest disappointments.