Tube ID

[mmorse]

Anybody know what tube this is? Someone on th PP forum says it's probably of Japanese origin. It has a Hammond label and says Gt Britain but it's not a Mullard.

http://mmorsedesign.com/pics/unknown.jpg

[rockon1]

I looked thru my Japan stash of tubes. Nothing "exactly" like it....no etchings I presume?

[Trout]

I have a large hoard of Hammond 12AX7's that are all Mullards, Look closely around the bottom portion of the tube for an numbers & letters etched into the glass. Sometimes it is very hard to see or read them. Often you need to hold them just right.

All the Hammonds organ tubes I have had both 12AX7's and several 12AU7's , The AU's were RCA labeled Hammond.

I also have some RCA 12AX7's that are actually Mullards labeled for RCA. Zeniths that are actually Amperexes. These tube labels are as crazy as Street vendors selling gucci handbags near union station!! :jo

[mmorse]

There are no etched date codes. There is a printed code but the only numbers I can make out are 102. The plates are different than any shortplate Mullards I've ever seen. I have some Hammond labeled Mullards with Blackburn etched codes and the plates in those are different than this one.

I got three more Hammond labeled tubes from the same guy and those tubes have the same plates as a Mullard but no etched codes. They also have angled getters. They could be Heerlen production Mullards. I just can't figure out what this one is. :(

[rockon1]

The Heerlens look (as far as I see) identical in construction to Blackburn Mullards. Ive got some very early 1959 short plate Mullards(and some eary 60's) and Heerlen Bulge Boys and later Heerlen made Amperex(early seventies?)and if they didnt have etch codes I wouldnt be able to pick them apart.

[Blue Strat]

What Rockon said. That's not a Philips (parent company of Mullard, Amperex and others) tube.

[mmorse]

I know what it's not. The Heerlen reference are to some other tubes I got from the same source.

[Timbre Wolf]

They also have angled getters. Japanese Matsushita (Panasonic) 12AX7A have circular getter wires mounted at an angle. That'd be my guess. The only other production wih angled-getters was from West German Valvo, but they'd have the etch codes to show it.

How do you like their performance?

What Rockon said. That's not a Philips (parent company of Mullard, Amperex and others) tube. Well, if they are Matsushita, they were made under direction of the Philips company, with rumored ties to Mullard technical supervision. Some Matsushita had the Philips codes (second line beginning with "N" or "n" depending on which of the two facilities they originated from), but, for some reason, some did not.

- Thom

[mmorse]

Guys, I'm not talking about the angled getter Hammonds I got from the guy. I'm talking about the one pictured in my first post. That does not have an angled getter. And it's plate structure is different than a Mullard as you can see.

I got 5 Hammond labeled tubes from the guy. Two of them are like the one pictured. The other three (not pictured) have the correct Mullard style plates and angled getters. Sorry if I've confused anyone.

[Timbre Wolf]

Can you post closer pictures from a couple of angles? That'd help.

- T

[rockon1]

OK I just went thru my Japanese stash again and found this one . Looks just like it I think. Has Japan etched in it too.http://tinypic.com/43e1h1y.jpg

[mmorse]

Rockon1, that looks like the tube. What is that tube?

[rockon1]

Rockon1, that looks like the tube. What is that tube?

Well its branded LaFayette. I wonder if it the old Lafayette electronics chain? It has 9-10 silk screened on it and [12AX7] Japan J2 etched into it-thats it.

[Dai H.]

possibly Hitachi (guessing)

[Blue Strat]

Japanese Matsushita (Panasonic) 12AX7A have circular getter wires mounted at an angle. That'd be my guess. The only other production wih angled-getters was from West German Valvo, but they'd have the etch codes to show it.

How do you like their performance?

Well, if they are Matsushita, they were made under direction of the Philips company, with rumored ties to Mullard technical supervision. Some Matsushita had the Philips codes (second line beginning with "N" or "n" depending on which of the two facilities they originated from), but, for some reason, some did not.

- Thom

The Japanese/Mullard tubes I've seen look ALMOST identical to Mullards except for one small detail.

[Timbre Wolf]

The Japanese/Mullard tubes I've seen look ALMOST identical to Mullards except for one small detail. Yeah, you're right about the Matsushita (do you call that a Japanese Mullard? There's a sales term I haven't yet heard) looking like a Mullard inside. I was just going off the description of the angled getter wire, which is characteristic of Matsushita (or Valvo).

- Thom

[Blue Strat]

Yeah, you're right about the Matsushita (do you call that a Japanese Mullard? There's a sales term I haven't yet heard) looking like a Mullard inside. I was just going off the description of the angled getter wire, which is characteristic of Matsushita (or Valvo).

- Thom

The angled getter is one tip off. No, that's now what I call it...it was convenient to list it that way for this thread.

[Dai H.]

looked at my two Hitachis and both the 1st and 2nd pic tubes appear to be Hitachi. Same plates, red leads, same etched writing as on the second tube. I have two Hitachis, a grey plate and blk. plate. The grey plate looks the same except for the tip, which is more extended. The blk. plate hitachi looks like a Raytheon, but the tip on it is smaller and looks more like the 1st pic tube (the tip on the 1st tube reminds me of a Shuguang 12AX7 tip). One of the things noticeable to me about the Hitachi is the lack of definition of the plates. There is also a number between pins 1 and 9, plus some green marking.

[rockon1]

One of the things noticeable to me about the Hitachi is the lack of definition of the plates. There is also a number between pins 1 and 9, plus some green marking.

Well that sounds like the tube I posted(second picture) There is a noticable lack of definition on the ribbing of the plates.

[mmorse]

I noticed the lack of definition also in my tube. Although the pic shows it as more defined than it really is. Plus there are only 2 ribs, not three. Looks like it's an Hitachi. It's not a bad sounding tube. But it's no Mullard.

I'll post a pic of the angled getter tubes I got from the same guy when I get a chance.

[rockon1]

I noticed the lack of definition also in my tube. Although the pic shows it as more defined than it really is. Plus there are only 2 ribs, not three. Looks like it's an Hitachi. It's not a bad sounding tube. But it's no Mullard.

I'll post a pic of the angled getter tubes I got from the same guy when I get a chance.

Well as far as Im concerned the short plate Mullards arent anything to rave about. The Hitachi might sound better!

[mmorse]

Well as far as Im concerned the short plate Mullards arent anything to rave about. The Hitachi might sound better!

I'm using one in V1 of my Winfield. That amp is not as enamored of Mullards as my 2 Marshalls are. The Hitachi actually sounds quite good. Specially clean. Smooth, full and not overly brite. It doesn't sound as good as a Mullard when pushed though. It's a little too compressed and lacks the magic Mullard mids. But, I'd take it over any of the new production stuff I have.

[mmorse]

Here is a pic of the other tubes I got from the guy. I got three of these with angled getters. I was going through my Mullard stash and found another one that a dealer sold to me as a Mullard. I do remember reading somewhere that Mullard did produce some tubes with angled getters. Probably Heerlens. The circular hole in the plate goes through the outer and inner plate on these. All my other Mullards, the hole only perforates the outer plate. That, and the angled getter are the only differences I can see. There's a 7 digit number printed on it 1022435 and it says Gt. Britain on the top in red. Actually, all the printing is red. Which was common for tubes made for Hammond Organ.

http://mmorsedesign.com/pics/anglegetter.jpg

OK tube-o-philes. What is it? ;)

[rockon1]

Looks like a Matsushita AKA "Japanese mullard". However given the fact its thier machinery I suppose they could have produced them elsewhere. Look closely for faded etch codes.

[Blue Strat]

Well as far as Im concerned the short plate Mullards arent anything to rave about. The Hitachi might sound better!

More evidence that there's no consensus on what sounds good.:AOK

[Blue Strat]

Looks like a Matsushita AKA "Japanese mullard". However given the fact its thier machinery I suppose they could have produced them elsewhere. Look closely for faded etch codes.

Yep, that's a Japanaese Mullard lookalike.

None of the Philips made tubes, that I can remember, have angled getters.

[Jeff West]

My monitor is going out here so I'm losing visual detail, but I agree with Matsushita in this case. They often don't have any apparent Philips-style codes at all, anywhere (and technically weren't Philips owned, although they interacted). They did also make versions with support rods holding up the halo unlike these, with non-angled halos and getters.

The holes-all-the-way-thru thing combined with top seams appears to be exclusive to either Matsushitas or Indian BELs.

Hamburg-made Philips had angled getter support rings (and angled getters themselves), both long and short plate. Some early Blackburn, Siemens and Heerlen longplates have markedly angled getter rings and uneven/canted getters even when new, but none of these have halos and none would ever be likely to be mistaken for Matsushitas.

With those "1022435" codes it's possible as far as I know that these were actually sourced and labelled by and sold legitimately as Mullards in N. America in '74-'75, but recent fakery may be more likely (and possibly before the e-bay vendor got 'em). The red "Gt. Britain" is incorrect but lots of Matsushitas sold in the U.S. had that 30-35 years ago! I've seen Marshall heads from the '70s at least a couple of times that appeared to have these exact angled 12AX7s as original tubes, although IIRC they never have logos or markings screened on them at all in those cases, also no factory/date codes. Also, as everyone here probably knows, there were quite a few of these (and non-angled) sold by RCA in the '70s and marked "Gt. Britain", those frequently are sold as Mullards because people think they are. But note that RCA did also rebrand real Mullard 12AX7s at least through the mid-'70s.

The Matsushitas are not bad, tonewise, IMO, not bass-shy like some '60s Japanese 12AX7s IME, and also durable, just like Matsushita EL34s, although not my top favorite.

rockon- let me know when you want to swap a couple of '60s Mullards for Hitachis!

Jeff

[Timbre Wolf]

More evidence that there's no consensus on what sounds good.:AOK I actually agree whole-heartedly with Rockon, that short-plate Mullard 12AX7A are tres ho-hum, in my book. And for all I know, Hitachi or Matsushita 12AX7 may be more appealing.

None of the Philips made tubes, that I can remember, have angled getters. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Valvo (a Philips company) made some 12AX7 with angled-getter wires. These are marked with "D" Philips code, for Hamburg, Germany.

Hamburg-made Philips had angled getter support rings (and angled getters themselves), both long and short plate. Jeff - you da man!! Thanks for the lowdown.

- Thom

[Blue Strat]

I actually agree whole-heartedly with Rockon, that short-plate Mullard 12AX7A are tres ho-hum, in my book. And for all I know, Hitachi or Matsushita 12AX7 may be more appealing.



- Thom

OK, so that's 2 out of about 200...conservatively.

Just pointing out that there's no consensus, that's all.

[mmorse]

So I guess the gist of all this is what I thought I was getting were 5 Mullards turned out to be 2 Hitachis and 3 Matsushitas (Japanese Mullards). :FM

Live and learn I guess. 5 more tubes for the dusty i'll never use these bin.:( At least I didn't pay Mullard prices for them.

[Timbre Wolf]

OK, so that's 2 out of about 200...conservatively.

Just pointing out that there's no consensus, that's all. Still, there's no reason for me not to assert the truth of my subjective experience, either. ;)

I remember when I first went from Chinese 12AX7 to an '80s JAN-Philips (ECG) 12AX7WA, and thought it was a big improvement. It was. But what did I know about the other possibilities? So what if 200 other players think Mullard short-plate 12AX7A are the cats meow - compared to what? I still say that particular Emperor is wearing no clothes (gasp!), and here's a caution to others to consider their choices wisely when spending crazy $$ on tubes with (possibly) bloated reputations.

- T

[Blue Strat]

So I guess the gist of all this is what I thought I was getting were 5 Mullards turned out to be 2 Hitachis and 3 Matsushitas (Japanese Mullards). :FM

Live and learn I guess. 5 more tubes for the dusty i'll never use these bin.:( At least I didn't pay Mullard prices for them.

Maybe you already mentioned this, but, how do they sound?

I recommend doing a blind test with someone else switching the tubes without telling you what you're listening to. There's NO other way to do subjective testing.

[Blue Strat]

Still, there's no reason for me not to assert the truth of my subjective experience, either. ;)



- T

Yes, just pointing out to viewers that your experiences are your own.

Believe it or not, I get orders from guys who tell me that they read a review of a tube on a forum and want to buy that tube. When they get it, they don't agree with the reviewer and give me a hard time as if it was my fault or that I lied to them. Unbelievable!

Welcome to MY world.:JAM

[Timbre Wolf]

So I guess the gist of all this is what I thought I was getting were 5 Mullards turned out to be 2 Hitachis and 3 Matsushitas (Japanese Mullards). :FM

Live and learn I guess. 5 more tubes for the dusty i'll never use these bin.:( At least I didn't pay Mullard prices for them. Caveat emptor!!

It helps to have threads like this, though, to prevent future surprises.

I've been through this once, when I thought I was buying a quad of long-plate Mullard 12AX7 on eBay. The photos were fuzzy, but I could see long plates that were plausibly Mullard, and the seller seemed to be confident. Then the tubes arrived and they were not Mullard-made, much to my dismay. Figuring out what they actually were was a fun process, and when I positively identified them as Telefunken smooth-plates, complete with the "diamond" on the bottom, I was thrilled. Then I tried them out, and I didn't like them at all (and never have found a place where they excelled). I do wish they were Mullards.

Bad luck? Good luck? Bad luck? In the end, its just luck, unless you've educated yourself, in detail. Even tube dealers have these problems (like recent JJ ECC803S being touted as NOS Tesla-origin), so I hope you don't feel too bad. Write it off as an educational cost.

- T

[Timbre Wolf]

Yes, just pointing out to viewers that your experiences are your own. I couldn't agree more, and have never contradicted that undeniable fact. I always attempt to couch descriptions in relativistic terms, and qualify that as my experience. That's the best I can do.

Believe it or not, I get orders from guys who tell me that they read a review of a tube on a forum and want to buy that tube. When they get it, they don't agree with the reviewer and give me a hard time as if it was my fault or that I lied to them. Unbelievable!

Welcome to MY world.:JAM Unbelievable, indeed!! If only you could use one of these :Spank on them.

- T

[rockon1]

FWIW- I have Matsushita's that the hole in the center does not go all the way thru to the center..

[rockon1]

Yep, that's a Japanaese Mullard lookalike.

None of the Philips made tubes, that I can remember, have angled getters.

If they are the real deal I have Hamburg made Valvo's that have angled getters....

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=1721949&posted=1#post1721949

[Timbre Wolf]

If they are the real deal I have Hamburg made Valvo's that have angled getters....

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=1721949&posted=1#post1721949 Those are genuine Valvos.

- T

[mmorse]

Maybe you already mentioned this, but, how do they sound?

I recommend doing a blind test with someone else switching the tubes without telling you what you're listening to. There's NO other way to do subjective testing.

The Hitachis are not to bad actually. Sounds nice clean. Full, not harsh or thin. They compress too much for my taste when pushed though.

Haven't really messed with the Matsushitas yet. Too busy enjoying my Raytheon blackplates. Thanks Timber Wolf. :BEER

[Timbre Wolf]

Too busy enjoying my Raytheon blackplates. Round two is on me :BEER

- T

[rockon1]

Those are genuine Valvos.

- T

Cool!:cool:

[Jeff West]

"FWIW- I have Matsushita's that the hole in the center does not go all the way thru to the center."

That's interesting, rockon, do you have any other details on those?

Jeff

[rockon1]

"FWIW- I have Matsushita's that the hole in the center does not go all the way thru to the center."

That's interesting, rockon, do you have any other details on those?

Jeff

Only that they are vertially identical to the Valvo. The only difference I see is a slight difference in the little mica pice on top of the top mica spacer and the Matsus's support rods a a bit longer. Post some pics shortly.

[rockon1]

Matsu on left Valvo on right.http://tinypic.com/2zrnswi.jpghttp://tinypic.com/4i3chub.jpgMatsu

[rockon1]

http://tinypic.com/4c3kqqb.jpgAnother pic of mitsu

[rockon1]

Another Mitsu left Valvo right. Damn having a hard time getting a good pic.http://tinypic.com/435w51z.jpg

[mmorse]

Mine look exactly like the matsu.