can your ears detect "phase" ?

[tedm]

in this 2 minute clip, there are 4 30 sec. segment guitar clips:

sm57 off speaker cab through Studio Projects pre-amp. 2 of the 4 segments have the phase switch pressed, the other two do not.

Can you detect which segements are in phase?

http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/phasetst1.mp3

[ultrevex]

'Phase' is irrelevant on mono sources. If you had 2 mics both capturing this track, you'd hear a difference when popping one mic in or out of phase with the other.

Now tuning.....tuning I can clearly hear in mono.......

[tedm]

Phase affects mono as well, for example, with a mono guitar rig, you want your amp to speaker wires connected so when you hit a loud note, the cone goes out, not in.

What about tuning?


'Phase' is irrelevant on mono sources. If you had 2 mics both capturing this track, you'd hear a difference when popping one mic in or out of phase with the other.

Now tuning.....tuning I can clearly hear in mono.......

[kimock]

Phase affects mono as well, for example, with a mono guitar rig, you want your amp to speaker wires connected so when you hit a loud note, the cone goes out, not in.

What about tuning?
I agree. A positive pulse at the input should give you a positive pulse at the output.
As far as being able to detect the difference on pre-recorded material of a solo distorted guitar performance, I've never bothered to try until today.

Sitting there with an electric guitar and an amp, it's not that hard to do,
because there's a huge tactile component to the effect. The strings feel as if they are trying to "run away" from the picK.

It's also easier to hear the difference off axis, just above the cabinet.
If you move your head bacK and forth, from the front of an open bacK cabinet to the rear, while you're playing, the difference in timbre can be dramatic.

There's no such thing as a "mono" electric guitar and amp, they're both sound sources, with the added complication of the amp's output being acoustically coupled to it's input. Most players don't have any trouble identifying this "hittin' " or "quittin' " behavior of the amp driving the guitar, or damping it whether they understand it or not. It's normaly expressed as a preference for forward firing, or "it doesn't do anything for me" for reverse.

So, absent any of my usual tactile cues, and without Knowing what picKups
were used, which can change things quite a bit, thru my shitty little computer speaKers, there's not much to go on.

That having been said, 1 and 4 sound one way to me, 2 and 3 sound the other...

[tedm]

thanks, and also thanks for the terminology correction over on the recording forum, yes I mean polarity, not phase.

actually, 1 and 3 (first 00:00-00:30 sec. and 1:00-1:30) are the same setting, 2 and 4 (00:30-1:00 and 1:30-2:00) are the other setting. I flipped the button every 30 seconds. But while I could also hear the slight differences in my phones (I think, but there was bleed through the phones from the amp), I am not quite sure which is "better" but I can tell they are different. I can see why Eric Johnson and others go nuts over this.

I'll wait until morning and then tell what the settings are, though they may be meaningless since there are so many other connections where wires could be reversed somewhere in the chain.

I agree. A positive pulse at the input should give you a positive pulse at the output.
As far as being able to detect the difference on pre-recorded material of a solo distorted guitar performance, I've never bothered to try until today.

Sitting there with an electric guitar and an amp, it's not that hard to do,
because there's a huge tactile component to the effect. The strings feel as if they are trying to "run away" from the picK.

It's also easier to hear the difference off axis, just above the cabinet.
If you move your head bacK and forth, from the front of an open bacK cabinet to the rear, while you're playing, the difference in timbre can be dramatic.

There's no such thing as a "mono" electric guitar and amp, they're both sound sources, with the added complication of the amp's output being acoustically coupled to it's input. Most players don't have any trouble identifying this "hittin' " or "quittin' " behavior of the amp driving the guitar, or damping it whether they understand it or not. It's normaly expressed as a preference for forward firing, or "it doesn't do anything for me" for reverse.

So, absent any of my usual tactile cues, and without Knowing what picKups
were used, which can change things quite a bit, thru my shitty little computer speaKers, there's not much to go on.

That having been said, 1 and 4 sound one way to me, 2 and 3 sound the other...

[kimock]

thanks, and also thanks for the terminology correction over on the recording forum, yes I mean polarity, not phase.

actually, 1 and 3 (first 00:00-00:30 sec. and 1:00-1:30) are the same setting, 2 and 4 (00:30-1:00 and 1:30-2:00) are the other setting. I flipped the button every 30 seconds. But while I could also hear the slight differences in my phones (I think, but there was bleed through the phones from the amp), I am not quite sure which is "better" but I can tell they are different. I can see why Eric Johnson and others go nuts over this.

I'll wait until morning and then tell what the settings are, though they may be meaningless since there are so many other connections where wires could be reversed somewhere in the chain.

Yeah, that figures.. I Knew 1 and 2 were different, but I never really got a handle on 3 and 4. I wasn't really sure what I was listening for, just that there was a noticable difference in the attacK in the first two examples.
Maybe frequency plays into it, and some registers "tell" more than others.

If you want to try again, can you do a clip where the recording stays in the same phase, and you flip the speaKer leads? I might be more familiar with that sound than my little monitors flipping. Either way, I'm game if you want to mess with it.

I Know I can tell with the thing sittin' in my lap, it'd be nice to learn to hear it at a greater distance.
By the way, it's a lot harder to hear with humbucKers, so if you're trying to get a handle on this yourself for real, sticK to the single coils.
ThanKs, that was fun..

[tedm]

Thanks, the 1st and 3rd segments were with the mic pre in "normal" mode, the 2nd and 4th segments were with the studio projects vtb1 preamp "POL REV" switch engaged.

[DANOCASTER]

Thanks, the 1st and 3rd segments were with the mic pre in "normal" mode, the 2nd and 4th segments were with the studio projects vtb1 preamp "POL REV" switch engaged.

OK..now I understand

with a SINGLE mic on that amp , switching the phase should make NO SONIC DIFFERENCE

That said - the Studio Projects is no great reference pre ( although a good inexpensive pre ) so perhaps the switch - or reversing component - is cheap and sounds more pleasing in one setting.

You are not flipping the phase of the amp - only of the mic pre. The spk (of course ) isnt changing whether it goes in or out when you "hit a big note"

Add a 2nd mic.. Then flip the switch on ONE of the pres and you'll hear a HUGE difference

lesson learned here:

when miking a drum kit or ANY source with multiple mics - make sure you check phase for the best possible sound :BEER

[trazan]

But while I could also hear the slight differences in my phones (I think, but there was bleed through the phones from the amp...
That's why you heard a difference. With any kind of bleed you'll hear a difference when flippin' the polarity when using phones. Try monitoring your own voice in headphones while flippin' the phase back and forth ;)

[tedm]

I can hear a difference, but I can't tell which is better.

That's why you heard a difference. With any kind of bleed you'll hear a difference when flippin' the polarity when using phones. Try monitoring your own voice in headphones while flippin' the phase back and forth ;)