Vintage Amp/New Caps

[Shnook]

Just about every thread I've read about someone receiving a vintage amp comes along with the advice to change the original caps if the amp so happens to still have them. However, how do new caps effect the 'vintageness' of the tone? A good deal of the 50's- 60's amps I read about have had a cap job at some point. And quite a few have had speaker changes as well. So I guess what I'm asking is if you received an amp from the 50's-60's with the original caps, would you change them, and possibly the speaker as well?

[jbltwin1]

There is no way that I would fire up an amp from the 50's without changing the one thing that could destroy it. Electrolytic caps dry out, go open, short, etc., and could destroy a valuable amp. If you are just going to look at it and not use it, leave it alone. If you are actually going to turn it on, change EVERY electrolytic in the amp, including the bias supply cap. It's cheap insurance. Yes, I've seen amps from tha era that still worked but I've also seen some from the 70's go up in flames. Mike.

[slider313]

If you picked up a '57 Chevy Belair would you want the original spark plugs and wires left in for the sake of originality? Some vintage amps work and sound good with the 45 year old caps,but it's only a matter of time before one lets go. It will most likely be when your gigging or practicing and the amp is working harder than it's used to. If your worried about the vintage value,save the old caps when you put in fresh ones. If you ever decide to sell the amp you can give them to the buyer.

[brad347]

slider313 took the words right out of my mouth. Changing electrolytics in yuor vintage amp is like changing the oil and air filter, brakes, etc. in your car. Yes, it requires "working on it." Does it affect "originality" in the eyes of collectors or players? Not really.

Does it affect the tone? In a way, yes. It removes the loud buzzing 60 hz sound that dead caps make.

[VacuumVoodoo]

Changing electrolytics in an old amp = time reversal and rejuvenation.

[Kiwi]

If your worried about the vintage value,save the old caps when you put in fresh ones. If you ever decide to sell the amp you can give them to the buyer.

This is the Conventional Wisdom, I know. And I observe it too. I got bags full of old caps and drifted squeedunkifiers for vintage amps that got worked on.

My question is: WHY?

I know we all save the old parts and pass them along, but ... who cares? What's the next buyer gonna do with them? He can't use them.

I never understood that part of the vintage amp thing. Nonetheless, I observe it. And I type in 4 8 15 16 23 42 every 108 minutes whether I need to or not.

Kiwi

[mr coffee]

you return the wornout dried out caps (I included the solder sucked out..)

:BEER



and the owner sells them on ebay

[vibroverbus]

Jand possibly the speaker as well?

if the amp has a speaker that is notable/desirable AND it was the factory speaker, changing the speaker will DEFINITELY change the collector value. i.e. vintage factory Jensen/JBL/Oxford/Utah/Rola/Celestion whatever

but at the same time if you're going to run the amp hard (as you should - vintage cars are for driving and vintage amps are for playing) you might not want to abuse the OEM speaker. a common response to this is that 'bedroom' players don't sweat using the vintage speaker, but working players who run the amp hard or gig it, take the speakers out, replace them with new replica drivers or even something completely different, and keep the originals on the shelf for restoration/resale/retirement/etc.

[brad347]

you return the wornout dried out caps (I included the solder sucked out..)

:BEER



and the owner sells them on ebay


Did someone BUY them!? :worried

and I run the original speakers hard in my BF deluxe and brown super. Haven't blown 'em yet! :D

[Shnook]

Thanks to all for the advice and comments. What all of you are saying is what I was thinking in my head. Basically, I've got a vintage Fender Tweed Champ headed my way, which has had a recent cap job. A good thing IMHO. Then elsewhere, which also had some really great advice about the amp, it was brought up that changing the caps changes the tone, and therefore I'm not really getting the original tone of the amp. Yes, I'm hoping for a pleasant tone, but I'm more concerned about the long term 'health' of the amp. I personally wouldn't want to play an amp with
40 year old caps in it. Thanks for the thoughts!

I do plan on changing the speaker out once it gets here so I'll be asking questions on that as well I'm sure! :)

[brad347]

electrolytic caps are one thing. Non-electrolytics are another thing entirely. I wouldn't buy a tweed amp that didn't have most of its original Astron caps (a few changed ones are OK as they go bad often) or a Blackface amp that didn't have its blue mallorys. There's nothng worse than opening up an amp and seeing it full of brand new orange drops. To me.

[slider313]

I know we all save the old parts and pass them along, but ... who cares? What's the next buyer gonna do with them? He can't use them.
Kiwi

You are right,he can't use them. But some "collectors" will none the less pay a premium for an all original,clean piece. I would give him the bag of old parts and,hey,if he want's to put them back in......
I just happen to have a bag of '62 Mercury Comet spark plugs,wires,cap and rotor for anyone interested.

[Ronsonic]

Did someone BUY them!? :worried

and I run the original speakers hard in my BF deluxe and brown super. Haven't blown 'em yet! :D

Yes, people buy those caps. There are occasional stories from techs of customers coming in with bags of dead old caps they want used in their repairs.

The originality thing has just warped the thinking of so many people. I blame the guitar geeks with their untouched solder joints for some of this crap. Much of it plainly stupid or dishonest.

Ron

[brad347]

damn I should put my bags of old caps on ebay! :o

[Blue Strat]

This is the Conventional Wisdom, I know. And I observe it too. I got bags full of old caps and drifted squeedunkifiers for vintage amps that got worked on.

My question is: WHY?

I know we all save the old parts and pass them along, but ... who cares? What's the next buyer gonna do with them? He can't use them.

I never understood that part of the vintage amp thing. Nonetheless, I observe it. And I type in 4 8 15 16 23 42 every 108 minutes whether I need to or not.

Kiwi

I don't understand it either. But as we all (well, most of us) know, perception of reality is more important than reality. So if it makes the buyer feel better (not sure WHO would actually feel better...) it couldn't hurt to do it. It does seem silly though.

[vibroverbus]

I don't understand it either. But as we all (well, most of us) know, perception of reality is more important than reality. So if it makes the buyer feel better (not sure WHO would actually feel better...) it couldn't hurt to do it. It does seem silly though.

Yeah... Confession time: I did it (asked for parts) as a customer before I did my own work. Now I still do it too often for some unknown reason... "gee I better save the old questionable carbon resistors that I replaced in this ziploc with all the other crappy parts that I replaced for good reason... and save this 2" piece because it was the original cloth covered wire (and despite the fact that I'd never remember where it goes!)"

It's like some OCD thing... you know it's pointless but you just keep doing it... I have been mustering courage to re-use yanked ground switches recently for better purposes, that felt good once I got over the initial hurdle of opening the ziplocs.

[brad347]

i sold a 1968 twin reverb that had totally been gone-over, critical resistors replaced with flameproof ones, re-capped, etc. When I sold it, I included the bag of original parts. It did seem to make the buyer feel a lot better.

Maybe it adds an air of "authenticity," like it's not actually a re-issue amp inside? Who the hell knows.

[Chris Scott]

Remember the good 'ole days when they were just guitar amps, and not collectors items?

Some of 'em sounded better than others, but they were still just amps!

All fantasy aside, I guess they're kinda like baseball cards in that respect. But one thing's for sure- if you're gonna actually PLAY 'em, well then you have to put 'em in PLAYABLE condition, which means replacing anything that has a good chance of killing either you or the amp.

Seems simple enough, dunnit?