I can FEEL the fret ends, and I'm annoyed.

[BAN]

On one of my guitars (a brand new EJ strat), I can sometimes feel the fret ends when I play. They aren't sharp at all, and they feel pretty well rounded, but I can still feel them, and it annoys me when my hand rubs against them.

Looking at the guitar, they don't seem to extend beyond the fretboard at all. And I have pretty stable humidity here in the Bay Area. But I can still feel them. It's only on the bottom of the frets, too---when I come over the top with my thumb I don't feel anything for the entire length of the fretboard.

So, what to do. I only have one guitar that exhibits this issue. Everything else about the guitar is perfect, and I love it, so I won't be returning or exchanging it (I tried out 4 and picked this as the best of the bunch). It's just this one minor annoyance...

Is this an easy fix? Should I just get over it?

BAN

[Don L]

Get over it...

[BAN]

Well, that was short and to the point ...

[msheda]

LOL

Should be able to be easily remedied by a decent shop if you dont feel like you want to do it yourself.

[marks]

Yes, it should be easy to fix.

[Zappatalist]

Get over it...

Why so harsh on this- seems like a relatively normal question to me? In fact, I'm dealing with the same thing on a new guitar (EBMM Silhouette).

You can certainly take it to a tested tech in your area and ask him to do something about it. Shoudn't be too difficult for a guy who knows what he's doing to deal with, and I highly doubt it would cost you more than $150-200. I mean, even a refret wouldn't be the end of the world if you really like everything else about the guitar, right?

[gtrwrks]

I've played 7.25" radius w/small frets for so long, that playing a flat radiused board (10, 12, ect") with med jumbo or bigger frets feels like playing a fingerboard with speedbumps - and I can certainly feel them on the sides of the fingerboard... drives me crazy.

[uberpict]

Get it as cold and dry (closet in an un-heated room) as you can then file down the fret ends or hit them with some sandpaper, when it warms up the fretboard swells back past the fret ends.

All maple neck and fretboards seem to do this, some more than others and it always shows in winter, maybe fredboards made in June. I don't think I have ever had a rosewood board with this problem. Just tape off the board and take a lot of time and care to hit the ends and warm it up very, very slowly unless you like vintage checking. ;)

I normally just keep playing them anymore, too much hassle and risk to the guitar sanding the ends down after it's lacquered. You really don't have to get it cold and dry but it helps to insure that when it contracts again you'll not notice it. Also a good humidifier and keeping the guitar in the case helps a whole lot.

[michael patrick]

The fretboard could have shrunk. It happens in the winter when the air dries out. You could up the humidity in your house, or at least in the room where your guitars are.

[Alainlafrance]

It's winter time, the wood slightly shrinks so making the frets more 'felt', in Springtime everything will be back to normal.
Otherwise do as said hereabove.

[GuffMorgan]

You could always send it off to get PLEK'd, wouldn't that correct everything that could possibly be wrong? Plus you could actually talk to them and tell them exactly what you want.

[Myxolidian]

Fret work is my biggest pet peeve on guitars. I can't stand shoddy fret work.

Since you're in SF, take it to Gary Brawer and have him fix it (you might want to have it Plek'd there too). This is if you absolutely love everything else about the guitar. Otherwise, take it back and find a new one.

[Don L]

Why so harsh on this- seems like a relatively normal question to me?

I'm not being harsh. He asked if he should just get over it, and my answer is yes because I do get over things like that easily (he said "minor annoyance"). They don't bother me. If I start bleeding because of them, then... :)

[Zelmo]

Keep your guitar in its case and put a small makeshift humidifier in there (or, in keeping with the food theme around here, maybe put some grapes [peeled, of course] in a partially-closed baggie in the case pocket).

[RichusRkr]

yup, dry winter weather does that to several of my guitars. and its true, in the spring the frets suck back in right to where they're supposed. I too dislike to feel the frets on the egdes of the fretboard. Last year I bought a humidifier and voila problem solved, no need for a fret dressing every year!!

[daddyo]

Fret sprout. Whoopie. Mask off the wood with green masking tape, file the ends flush to the wood and at whatever angle you prefer, then get a Dremel tool with a hard cloth disk and some green polishing compound and polish those suckers.

[BAN]

Hey Don, I didn't think you were being harsh; I think that's a perfectly valid answer.

Thanks to all for the advice. As I said, I don't think it's a humidity/winter issue. We just don't have that problem here (and my hygrometer agrees). This was like this in the store, as well, and came right out of the sealed box from Fender.

So, probably just some sloppy fretwork. I guess I'll live with it for awhile and then see about getting it fixed. I really don't want to exchange it ... though since it's the holiday season, the return period is extended to January 25th---plenty of time for an even better one to end up at GC ...

BAN

[BAN]

In fact, I'm dealing with the same thing on a new guitar (EBMM Silhouette).

Zappatalist, I just got a silhouette special (maple/alder) a couple of weeks ago, and it doesn't exhibit any of this. Hope you can get that fixed, because it's about the smoothest neck I've ever played and that would annoy the hell out of me to feel the frets on that wonderful neck.

[Lucidology]

I've played 7.25" radius w/small frets for so long, that playing a flat radiused board (10, 12, ect") with med jumbo or bigger frets feels like playing a fingerboard with speedbumps - .

You probably didn't mean this illustration to be comedic...
but for some reason it really made me laugh....:AOK

Thanks...:)

[teleamp]

The fretboard could have shrunk. It happens in the winter when the air dries out. You could up the humidity in your house, or at least in the room where your guitars are.

I have never posted a skeptical post until this one, and I am not bashing anyone. But before I would believe a neck to shrink in dryer weather, I would like to see some micrometer readings to back that up. The neck wood should have been properly dried before Fender machined it to its finished shape.

Mike

[grego7]

Great thread and advice. I just bought a squier '51, and the frets absolutely are poorly finished. No way in hell I'm paying $150 to get a fret job -- the guitar only cost $99 -- and I think my dad has a Dremel. Should be a good learning experience.

[rgsss14]

I skimmed through this pretty quickly, but did you mention that you bought the guitar in town, or close? Rather, did it travel from the cold to your "warmer" climate? Don't touch the axe (other than playing it...) and be patient for a month, if you can. I can't believe that they would send out a guitar with a poor fret job, but I guess it's possible. I'm no expert but I've had guitars (one in particular, from a renowned and respected luthier in CA), that exhibited that problem and after I gave it a little time, it definitely improved. Wood is strange, and is certainly a living, breathing thing.

good luck,

[BAN]

I bought it in town. And I'm assuming it came directly from Fender about 7 hours south of where I live (or at least a California GC distribution hub), but it might have been cycled through Guitar Center's distribution channels and come to the SF store from anywhere.

I know what you're talking about, though, and back when my GAS was directed at high-end acoustics I made sure I never bought a guitar in winter (unless it was locally) for exactly that reason.

Honestly, I think this is just Fender sloppiness. I mean, it's still a production guitar, after all.

I also think I've been spoiled with my plek'd R8.

[Vince]

Looks like all the wood shrinkage issues have been covered here. Obviously, if the wood get dryer than it was when the frets were filed to the edges of the fingerboard, you'll get some sprouting. You did say that the ends of the tangs do NOT appear to be protruding, so that's not sprout.

Doesnt' that EJ have a pretty good roll on the edges of the fingerboard? That's where they round over the point where the fingerboard radius and the vertical edge of the neck meet up and down the neck, between each fret. If that's the case, what happens is that the very edge of the fret feels like it's sitting a little higher compared to the surface of the roll. When you roll the edge of the neck, you can't bevel the frets inward too much more or you lose too much of the sides of the frets, especially on a strat. Take a look at the drawing to see what's happening. In both drawings, the edge bevel is starting at the same distance from the center of the fingerboard at the top of the fret. The bevel is steeper to prevent losing too much fret on the right, so this may be what you're feeling. Even if they've bevelled the frets a little steeper than what is shown here, you'll still feel a bit more fret where the edge roll and the bottom of the fret crown meet at the fret end. The illustration on the right shows how a little of the fret tang hang over, even though you won't see it because it's still got wood covering it on both sides. Anyway, hope this helps.

Get a good tech to do a corner dress on the frets and see if that makes a difference. Surfacing or leveling the tops of the frets ala a Plek dress isn't the answer.


http://www.vinettoguitars.com/index_files/pics/RollComparison.jpg

[BAN]

Huh, thanks Vince. That's a very informative post, and I think that might be exactly what's going on. Can you explain more about a "corner dress" and what they'd actually be doing to the fret in that procedure?

BAN

[scottlr]

If it's brand new, would not that possibly be a warranty issue?

[trucks]

Get a good tech to do a corner dress on the frets and see if that makes a difference. Surfacing or leveling the tops of the frets ala a Plek dress isn't the answer.

This is exactly correct. I had a corner dress done on one of my guitars that exhibited the same issue. It was fairly inexpensive. In your case, I believe Fender will pay for this. I bought a strat a few years ago and took it to a Fender authorized tech for a setup. He ended up doing some fretwork and said Fender had an allowance for this. He charged them directly for the entire job. He did not work for the store I purchased from. You may want to look into this.

[aleclee]

I have never posted a skeptical post until this one, and I am not bashing anyone. But before I would believe a neck to shrink in dryer weather, I would like to see some micrometer readings to back that up. The neck wood should have been properly dried before Fender machined it to its finished shape.I don't have a micrometer but I do have two guitars where the frets didn't stick out when I bought it but after some cold/dry weather I was dealing with protruding fret ends. Knocking down the fret ends is my preferred solution--oftentimes it only needs to be done once.

As for proper drying, you might want to the recent wood-drying thread started by Terry McInturff. Long story short: even properly dried wood will move with the seasons, especially on a recently-constructed guitar.

[Gadowguitars]

I can tell you that it has nothing to do with the quality of the fret work....50 percent of our necks are finished like the EBMM...with Tru oil. We take out neck blanks down to 7-8 percent moisture here in North Carolina. If we send a guitar to Boston in July I would bet they will have some minor fret sprout due to the dry winter...from some minor shrinkage.

I flew up to one of our dealers in New Jersey last winter because he had fret sprout on every guitar in his shop,,,so I spent the day redressing fret ends...come to find out his electric went out on a saturday night...so that took out the humidifier and HVAC. I dressed Breedloves, G&L, Gadows...all brands that focus alot of attention on fret work and wood drying.

Remember...you can be as careful as you want...wood moves

[black mariah]

Remember...you can be as careful as you want...wood moves


Some people would give this +1, but I give it +infinity and a taco. Wood is "living" even after it's cut and finished. It swells and twists and jibblies and warps and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.... other than get over it. :crazy

[Vince]

I agree with all the comments about wood swelling and shrinking. If it dries and shrinks in relation to where it was when the frets were installed, you'll see pops. A good telltale sign is small chips in the lacquer at the very ends of the frets where the metal pushed the lacquer off the wood. You got those?

[Gadowguitars]

You can definetly see that on the fenders. On our finished necks we take a small strip of finish off of the fingerboard that runs to the bottom of the fret tangs...that way if there is a shrinkage issue it doesn't pop the finish.

[Myxolidian]

Did you guys read what the OP said? CA is not a humid state and that his hygrometer shows that it's not too dry where the guitar is. And the guitar was probably made in AZ, which is even drier.

I've NEVER had a guitar with fret sprout. I can see it happening if you live in Boston with it's Mexico-like humidity in the summer and harsh winters, but that is simply not the case in the Bay Area. I don't even bother with humidifiers and hygrometers.

Seems to me there are ways to prevent fret sprout in the first place. One is simply snipping the frets a little shorter during construction. How much does a fingerboard shrink in dry weather? I'm guessing maybe .010" (0.25mm) tops? If so, then that's the size of a typical high E string. Shortening the fret by that much shouldn't affect playabliltiy whatsoever, no? So as far as I'm concerned, if it's preventable (yet steps aren't taken to prevent it) then it's shoddy workmanship.

As for the rolled edges being a factor, my Jackson PC1 has about 3X the roll radius that a typical Fender has. Absolutely zero problems with the fret ends thru many summers and winters here in the Bay Area.

http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/987/1620pc1-med.JPG

[Vince]

Based on the OP, I never thought wood shrinkage was the issue. That said, all the subsequent posts regarding wood movement and how they can lead to protruding frets are valid, and I agree with them.

Rolled edges don't cause "problems" per se, but if you're not used to them it can draw attention to the fret ends. Once the attentions is there, it's like the princess and the pea.

[9fingers]

Yes, even seasoned wood moves. A few years ago I sent a maple board '74 Strat to Rene' Martinez (tech to SRV, Santana, Mayer, etc) in Texas for a refret. It cames back to WV in great shape. Within a few months I had significant fret sprout on a 30 year old neck (both sides of every fret), even though WV is more humid than Texas where the work was done. It was summer & the heat was not on. Wood is never completely "seasoned" to the point where it does not move. It took me a good while with a fret end file & magnifying visor to do each fret without damaging the finish on the edges of the maple board any further than the actual wear. A rosewood board would be a whole lot easier!

[Alainlafrance]

Last year I bought a humidifier and voila problem solved, no need for a fret dressing every year!!
Same +1

[Eric Pykala]

Fifteen-minute fix with a triangular file with one edge ground and polished "safe". A good tech can fix it in the time it takes you to get annoyed. I'm lead tech at a music store with a thousand guitars and basses in stock, with Canadian winter. I do it a lot...Eric

[TopJimmy5150]

I wouldn't accept that on a $200 Squier...why should I accept it on a $1600 EJ Fender? Someone should make that right and pronto.

[grego7]

http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/987/1620pc1-med.JPG

That's a very cool picture by the way.

[BAN]

Thanks for all the tips and comments, folks. Seems like the corner dress is just the ticket.

I actually went back to the store yesterday, and it seems like either their tech (an independent guy who works in the Guitar Center) or a Fender tech will deal with this under warranty.

Normally, I would not trust my guitar to a GC tech, but I've seen this guys work and he's pretty careful and thorough. Plus, I'd rather play the guitar than go through someone like Gary Brawer who typically has such a huge backlog, which might leave me without the guitar for a couple of months.

Interestingly, I went to Guitar Center and Haight Ashbury Music last night and it almost made me feel guilty for complaining. Mine was actually the best of the bunch, and I played every strat at both places over $1200. The fretwork was terrible on ALL of them. This was even true (and actually more true) on some of the $6k custom shop pieces. I mean, at least my protruding ends aren't really sharp.

Thanks again. I hope the advice is as good when I post about the tight tremolo that actually BENT the bar trying to use it...

BAN

[Reeek]

I live in Northern Nevada where the humidity ranges between 10 and 30%. The funny thing is that my two Suhr's HAVE NOT done this. At all. My experience is that ebony FB's on a mahogany neck does it the worst. I've had guitars with that wood combo that felt like a saw blade in a couple of months. A Dampit in the case makes it much better. I'm really pleasantly surprised about the Suhr's.

[ASATClassic]

"fret sprout" is pretty common. I don't think it's always the weather, etc. I think a lot of guitars leave the factory without the final finishing. I love G&L's but they usually need some fret work, along with shielding and a few other "finishes". I just factor that cost into buying a new guitar.

The only guitars I've seen that don't need attention are the $2000+ bunch. I looked at some PRS's the other day and they were perfect. I can't afford them, so I'm happy to spend $800 plus another $150 to "perfect" them.

[mad dog]

No need to get over it. A good tech can quickly solve the problem. Happened to me on the only electric I ever bought new -- an ASAT Classic. First winter, feel the frets. A couple bucks later, gone. One wishes initial setup to be perfect, but it rarely is. Even if it is perfect for now, it may not be when the weather cools down.

[jharpersj]

wood that is not dried enough (many times on production guitars) shrinks and then you get sharp end since most production guitar companies also dont really do the ends correctly either (ala grosh). Simple fix take it to a trusted luthier and have him round the ends, happens to most peaver EVH guitars and many many other brands

[Reeek]

You can definetly see that on the fenders. On our finished necks we take a small strip of finish off of the fingerboard that runs to the bottom of the fret tangs...that way if there is a shrinkage issue it doesn't pop the finish.

Carvin leaves that finish on their upper registers on some of their guitars and they will bubble on you when the wood shrinks.