Anyone else underwhelmed by the Collings CL?

[bearbike137]

Anyone else played a Collings City Limits Deluxe and have been less than impressed?

I have played two of them thus far and neither did anything for me. Both guitars were highly regarded by the stores that received them and both sold almost immediately. I found the guitars to be articulate and refined sounding -- but had no mojo and were actually slightly thin sounding. They struck me more as being in the PRS camp than the Gibson camp. Moreover, I didn't think either guitar played up the neck very well. There almost seemed to be a resonant frequency problem up around the 10th to 12th frets -- a bit dead sounding.

They are beautiful and well-crafted guitars -- and Collings makes my favorite acoustics. However, I am amazed at the buzz they have created. Anyone else have a similar feeling? Obviously many people love them and I am in the minority -- and, remember, it's just an opinion.

[surfshack]

How come everyone else is raving about them and they're virtually flying off the shelf's?
It's interesting to see some opinions from the other side.
I don't know anything about them and i never played one, 'cept that I own a D2H. The D2H is an amazing acoustic. It has a killer vintage wood tone.
I would've figured they'd do the same with their new electrics.
I've heard that the jump from acoustics to electrics is a whole different ballgame.

Did you get to play their 290 LP Special copies? How are they?

[HHB]

I've handled one but never plugged in, I'd agree that it's as much PRS as LP

[wsaraceni]

isnt the scale length 24 7/8 inch. which i guess is 1/2 the distance between a les paul and PRS

[slopeshoulder]

I've played all the models, multiple examples of each, and I think they are the best Gibson style guitars ever made (and that might include actual Gibsons).

[edgarallanpoe]

Played a few and was completely blown away. For reference, I own or have owned Bakers, Hubers, Suhr, Anderson, Hamer, Gibson, Fender, Heatley, Mcnaught, Mcinturff....I could go on but you get the point.

The Collings guitars I played were every bit as well constructed as any of the above mentioned guitars and absolutely smoked when I plugged them in. I found them to be full and rich sounding with wonderful overtones. The ones I played were crystal clear in the highs without ever sounding bright or harsh. Mids and lower mids were huge sounding, and the CL especially had a kick ass low end. The CL was amazing and the ES-335 type guitar was absolutely jaw dropping. As I said before...I was completely blown away, and that doesn't happen very often.

but had no mojo

Could someone please explain to me what this is? I love it when people talk about mojo as if it is some kind of quantitative feature of a guitar.:rolleyes::horse

[Teleplayer]

I played 2 of them and thought they were both sterile. Very well built and I am sure with a pup swap the guitar would come alive, but I was not impressed at all.

J - did you play them at Make 'n ??

[GAT]

Mine is magic.

The opposite of thin. I have not played my other humbucker guitars much since I got it. But, that's my opinion.

[bearbike137]

Could someone please explain to me what this is? I love it when people talk about mojo as if it is some kind of quantitative feature of a guitar.:rolleyes::horse



Mojo = personality/character/a distinguishing factor/balls

The opposite of sterile and bland...

Honestly, I'm thrilled that people love their Collings City Limits. I love guitars and they are nice guitars. I'm just a little surprised at the buzz based on the two I played. Maybe those two were below average, who knows?

[GAT]

The first time I played one was at a store, through an unfamiliar amp. I really liked it. Then I pulled down some high end Gibsons, etc. and at that point realized how much better it really was. My friend also could hear the difference. Clarity and warmth, both at the same time. The CL Deluxe I own just sings.

Once I got mine and could really play it through my rig and compare it to my other guitars, it was over. I promptly ordered an I35 and a 290.

[gitman]

i was somewhat surprised when i read that Collings ventures into the electric guitar realm but also knowing the high standard of excellence and quality control from their long established line of acoustics ( i own a 10 year old Collings 000-12 fret ) i was pretty certain that their new line of electrics will be nothing short of stellar. looks like they succeeded. very well thought out models with modern features but still firmly seated in tradition so as not to
scare off the traditionalist majority of the potential clientele ;-)
i doubt that any Collings guitar that has some sort of defect or lack in response would ever leave the company so the not-so-good impression might as well stem from old strings, bad chord, bad amp, bad speaker, bad day for the ears, not enough sex ? just my $0.2 ....

[AD]

I've handled one but never plugged in, I'd agree that it's as much PRS as LP

I just got mine recently and my first impressions while strumming it was average or just OK. It was a little on the bright side, definately well built etc, BUT when i plugged in - killer LP vibe. This thing has the LP mojo with more clarity. I think the pups are half the magic.

I do not think of it as in the PRS camp (the Grosh set neck i owned was more PRS to me). Hey, that's what i love about this forum, everybody is entitled to their opinion :-)

If you dig R9's, the Collings is a good alternative w/ better tuning stability. If not, a good R8 or R7 will do just fine. YMMV.

[HHB]

I just got mine recently and my first impressions while strumming it was average or just OK. It was a little on the bright side, definately well built etc, BUT when i plugged in - killer LP vibe. This thing has the LP mojo with more clarity. I think the pups are half the magic.

I do not think of it as in the PRS camp (the Grosh set neck i owned was more PRS to me). Hey, that's what i love about this forum, everybody is entitled to their opinion :-)

If you dig R9's, the Collings is a good alternative w/ better tuning stability. If not, a good R8 or R7 will do just fine. YMMV.
I thought the Collings was great and thats not a dig, it just seemed more PRS than LP cause it was made so well LOL

[AD]

JofZ, what amp did you have the Collings plugged in?

HHB, try it plugged in, i was amazed. I typically will know if i'll like a guitar within a few minutes, but the CL surprised me once i plugged in. Getting a good LP w/ Lollar's a better alternative? maybe...

The CL also works better for me due to the fact that i'm a ham fisted strat player. keeping a light touch on an LP in order to maintain it in tune has always been a struggle for me.

[Dave Orban]

I guess if you're used to the lifeless, muffled tone of a typical historic RI, the lively sparkle of a "real" guitar might be somewhat off-putting.

[GAT]

I guess if you're used to the lifeless, muffled tone of a typical historic RI, the lively sparkle of a "real" guitar might be somewhat off-putting.

Amen! I wish you could play mine Dave, you would love it! You need a vacation out west once I get the I35 and the 290!

[BattleAngel]

haven't played the electrics but I actually had the same response to the acoustic guitars. I've owned a couple goodalls, have a very nice vintage gibson, the whole range of taylors (one with mojo, the rest with 'usable taylor tone'), and I had a collings orchestra model that I stupidly bought based on the company's rep w/o being able to play it- even w/ new strings just... didn't have a soul. For the $3.5k that they cost, I was pretty disappointed. Above average sound, clearly first rate construction, but no balls, juice, guts, etc. all of the things the above guys who aren't into the electrics are talking about. I think there are some players who are sensitive to this and some who aren't- the ones who are, have a hard time mating with a soulless instrument even if it's built like no other. The ones who aren't sensitive to this can make great music on a great but soulless instrument. In this equation, the "vibe" guys are the ones who miss out on making great music happen with a less than vibey guitar, but I think the best stuff happens for my ears when you match a vibe-sensitive guitar player with a vibey guitar. Of course there is no standard definition for mojo, but those of us who know the kind of mojo we mean know it when we see it and know when its not there if it's not. One man's sterile may be another's mojo, but to the guy who thinks it is sterile, it is just that, sterile.

This may have been the dumbest post I have ever posted to a guitar forum.

[alanbass1]

I saw a film where a guy lost his mojo, Austin Powers I believe was his name.

[AD]

"but those of us who know the kind of mojo we mean know it when we see it and know when its not there if it's not"

How would one go about to join your secret society?

"haven't played the electrics"
Shouldn't you have stopped there? I can fully understand not buying into the Collings frenzy (i did...) but come on......

[surfshack]

Yeah , but the thing is how often does the Gibson custom shop kick out a guitar with mojo?

[Pete Faragher]

Anyone else played a Collings City Limits Deluxe and have been less than impressed?

I have played two of them thus far and neither did anything for me. Both guitars were highly regarded by the stores that received them and both sold almost immediately. I found the guitars to be articulate and refined sounding -- but had no mojo and were actually slightly thin sounding. They struck me more as being in the PRS camp than the Gibson camp. Moreover, I didn't think either guitar played up the neck very well. There almost seemed to be a resonant frequency problem up around the 10th to 12th frets -- a bit dead sounding.

They are beautiful and well-crafted guitars -- and Collings makes my favorite acoustics. However, I am amazed at the buzz they have created. Anyone else have a similar feeling? Obviously many people love them and I am in the minority -- and, remember, it's just an opinion.



Wow....that is exactly the opposite of my impression. the 12th Fret in Toronto got a CL and a 290 in last week. I played both on two different days. While I thought the 290 was really nice, the CL blew me away. So much so the second time I went in to the store I brought in my Gustavsson Bluesmaster to do a A/B. After my first play on the CL I thought it was very reminiscent of the JG. I was wrong, they are extremely different in feel and tone. However the CL had way more bottom,mid and smoothness than the JG. This has lead to a problem for me....I think I am buying the CL tomorrow. Just such a better guitar than any LP I've owned or played, yet has classic LP tone. If I do get the CL, I'll be doing a JG/CL thread on here.

[AD]

well Pete.....that thread would be the ultimate New Year's eve Main Event. The JG vs CL cage match.

[KarlH]

Wow....that is exactly the opposite of my impression. the 12th Fret in Toronto got a CL and a 290 in last week. I played both on two different days. While I thought the 290 was really nice, the CL blew me away. So much so the second time I went in to the store I brought in my Gustavsson Bluesmaster to do a A/B. After my first play on the CL I thought it was very reminiscent of the JG. I was wrong, they are extremely different in feel and tone. However the CL had way more bottom,mid and smoothness than the JG. This has lead to a problem for me....I think I am buying the CL tomorrow. Just such a better guitar than any LP I've owned or played, yet has classic LP tone. If I do get the CL, I'll be doing a JG/CL thread on here.

you realize that you have to buy the CL now, right? Just so you can do a thorough comparison and post the results for us.... :BluesBros

[Pete Faragher]

well Pete.....that thread would be the ultimate New Year's eve Main Event. The JG vs CL cage match.


Don't cha just know it.
In this corner with the amber sunburst body weighing 7.6 lbs.........
I may be playing too much to type a thread. Can't wait. I hope it can happen. :AOK
Just a quick note to head off any inquiries for those looking......I will not be selling my JG if I get the CL (deluxe) ;)

[BattleAngel]

" How would one go about to join your secret society?"
Hey like I said, I just mean that I think that there are various types of mojo to different people, I think I'm in the same camp as the original poster, and since mojo is so hard (ie. impossible) to describe, it's just the kind of thing where a certain group of people is going to bond because they view it the same way, whereas another group (you?) is going to have no idea wtf we are talking about.

Also wasn't your comment sort of unnecessary considering I admitted in my post that my post was well... pretty ridiculous?

[Frater B]

Just a quick note to head off any inquiries for those looking......I will not be selling my JG if I get the CL (deluxe) ;)

So there you have it?, the CL would not replace a JG. It would be yet another tool with a different voice. Not that I wouldn't read a A/B comparison of the 2. I wonder how an A/B comparison of a CL against another CL would turn out. Different wood, 2 sets of handwound pickups? No 2 guitars are identical, no matter how hard one tries. Can someone tell me if they are using Nickel frets or SS frets? Good Luck with your purchase. They look like very nice guitars!

B

[jokerjkny]

great guitar, but IMHO, just as good as a nice grosh set neck or a heatley tradition. ;)

[ssimon64]

haven't played the electrics but I actually had the same response to the acoustic guitars. I've owned a couple goodalls, have a very nice vintage gibson, the whole range of taylors (one with mojo, the rest with 'usable taylor tone'), and I had a collings orchestra model that I stupidly bought based on the company's rep w/o being able to play it- even w/ new strings just... didn't have a soul. For the $3.5k that they cost, I was pretty disappointed. Above average sound, clearly first rate construction, but no balls, juice, guts, etc. all of the things the above guys who aren't into the electrics are talking about. I think there are some players who are sensitive to this and some who aren't- the ones who are, have a hard time mating with a soulless instrument even if it's built like no other. The ones who aren't sensitive to this can make great music on a great but soulless instrument. In this equation, the "vibe" guys are the ones who miss out on making great music happen with a less than vibey guitar, but I think the best stuff happens for my ears when you match a vibe-sensitive guitar player with a vibey guitar. Of course there is no standard definition for mojo, but those of us who know the kind of mojo we mean know it when we see it and know when its not there if it's not. One man's sterile may be another's mojo, but to the guy who thinks it is sterile, it is just that, sterile.

This may have been the dumbest post I have ever posted to a guitar forum.

It makes sense, some guitars have the mojo, be it a collings, gibson, fender or whoever... some guitars don't have the mojo, be it a collings, gibson, fender...

that's how I see it

[bearbike137]

great guitar, but IMHO, just as good as a nice grosh set neck or a heatley tradition. ;)

Well, these things seem to have a cycle of their own. The buzz right now is the Collings electrics. Go back two years on this forum and you'll see very similar posts about Grosh Set Necks.

[tonedaddy]

haven't played the electrics but I actually had the same response to the acoustic guitars. I've owned a couple goodalls, have a very nice vintage gibson, the whole range of taylors (one with mojo, the rest with 'usable taylor tone'), and I had a collings orchestra model that I stupidly bought based on the company's rep w/o being able to play it- even w/ new strings just... didn't have a soul. For the $3.5k that they cost, I was pretty disappointed. Above average sound, clearly first rate construction, but no balls, juice, guts, etc. all of the things the above guys who aren't into the electrics are talking about. I think there are some players who are sensitive to this and some who aren't- the ones who are, have a hard time mating with a soulless instrument even if it's built like no other. The ones who aren't sensitive to this can make great music on a great but soulless instrument. In this equation, the "vibe" guys are the ones who miss out on making great music happen with a less than vibey guitar, but I think the best stuff happens for my ears when you match a vibe-sensitive guitar player with a vibey guitar. Of course there is no standard definition for mojo, but those of us who know the kind of mojo we mean know it when we see it and know when its not there if it's not. One man's sterile may be another's mojo, but to the guy who thinks it is sterile, it is just that, sterile.

This may have been the dumbest post I have ever posted to a guitar forum.

What scares me is I think I actually understand what you're talking about.
:D

[bearbike137]

This thread illustrates one of the things that makes stringed instruments so fascinating to me. Guitars are very personal instruments where the interaction between the player and the instrument is a dominant factor in the instrument's perceived “quality” and performance. Over in the acoustic guitar forums they have canned reply for when some “newbie” comes on and posts “what does it sound like? Describe its tone”. Some wise old forum veteran will usually post something like, “Sure – I’ll share that with you – but first describe the color blue to me…” Obviously. the point is that so much of this is so intangible, qualitative and personal.

My original post was not meant to slam Collings CL guitars. I am a huge fan of Collings guitars – my #1 beloved bury-me-with-it acoustic is a Collings Brazilian dreadnought I bought in 1997. I have bought and sold maybe a half dozen additional Collings acoustics since then. When I heard that Collings was going to produce a Les Paul style guitar – I was as excited as anyone. Despite my best efforts, I have had trouble finding a Les Paul-type guitar that was a keeper for me. I bought 4 Historic Les Pauls in the process – and tried all the pup and electronic swapping I could to make them work for me – but ultimately ended up selling them all.

One guitar that came close for me was a Grosh Set Neck. The one I bought was a beautiful and full sounding guitar with great mids and great sustain. However, it really was closer in sound to my ’63 SG Standard in some ways than a Les Paul (except for the sustain). After awhile I sold it because my SG was simply better at that sound. Actually, this is the same Set Neck that Alex Dann eventually owned. It’s interesting that he feels that’s it was closer to a PRS than a Les Paul. I certainly believe he honestly feels that way about it. However, I didn’t feel it had any PRS qualities and actually out-Gibsoned the Historic Les Paul I owned at the same time (albeit the wrong Gibson!). It’s interesting that two different players can feel so differently about the same guitar.

When Collings announced they were producing the City Limits I was all over that. The first one I tried was the first CL into Mass Street Music. It was bright and zingy (and I like bright – my #1 electric is a ’69 Tele), and sounded great when playing chords (it had a bit of a Gretsch 6120 quality – think “Who’s Next”), but was nothing like a Les Paul for me. I like it a lot until I started soloing. The single notes, in my hands, were somewhat thin – especially up the neck. Again, this is just an opinion.

The next one I tried was among the first received at another favorite music store. This one was fuller sounding and had better sustain. However, it was still more “refined” sound than I was seeking. I know that Bill Collings was after a more articulate Les Paul – and, given the two I played, it seems he accomplished that. However, for me, there was something subtracted in the process – it is hard to put my finger on it. I just couldn’t make the guitar sing. Maybe it is just that simple. When I soloed on those two guitars – I had to dig very deep for what I was after – too deep. Maybe had I tried a third CL, I would have been knocked over -- who knows?

However, that is just me. My original post was simply wondering if anyone else had a similar experience with the CL. Apparently, most have not, and many seem to adore the guitar. I’m glad – especially since it was a CL that pried my next guitar out of GAT’s hands! I recently put down my credit card down on his former Grosh Set Neck at Fat Sound. When I asked GAT about it, he told me it was a great guitar, but he was looking for something not quite so heavy in the tone department. He went on to rave about the lighter tone of his City Limits. Well, that makes perfect sense. I’m looking for something a bit more “heavy” than I found in the City Limits. He prefers something “lighter” than the Grosh Set Neck. It’s a beautiful thing!

Uh -- does this long post make any sense at all...?

[GAT]

You will love the Set Neck. I ordered it new and even thought of the color. I looks killer on stage. We played a show with the Boneshakers the day I got it and Randy Jacobs thought it was a cool guitar.

[surfshack]

was the guitar kept in a "smoke free" environment?.........:crazyguy..........:BOUNCE

[Dave Orban]

This thread illustrates one of the things that makes stringed instruments so fascinating to me. Guitars are very personal instruments where the interaction between the player and the instrument is a dominant factor in the instrument's perceived “quality” and performance. Over in the acoustic guitar forums they have canned reply for when some “newbie” comes on and posts “what does it sound like? Describe its tone”. Some wise old forum veteran will usually post something like, “Sure – I’ll share that with you – but first describe the color blue to me…” Obviously. the point is that so much of this is so intangible, qualitative and personal.

My original post was not meant to slam Collings CL guitars. I am a huge fan of Collings guitars – my #1 beloved bury-me-with-it acoustic is a Collings Brazilian dreadnought I bought in 1997. I have bought and sold maybe a half dozen additional Collings acoustics since then. When I heard that Collings was going to produce a Les Paul style guitar – I was as excited as anyone. Despite my best efforts, I have had trouble finding a Les Paul-type guitar that was a keeper for me. I bought 4 Historic Les Pauls in the process – and tried all the pup and electronic swapping I could to make them work for me – but ultimately ended up selling them all.

One guitar that came close for me was a Grosh Set Neck. The one I bought was a beautiful and full sounding guitar with great mids and great sustain. However, it really was closer in sound to my ’63 SG Standard in some ways than a Les Paul (except for the sustain). After awhile I sold it because my SG was simply better at that sound. Actually, this is the same Set Neck that Alex Dann eventually owned. It’s interesting that he feels that’s it was closer to a PRS than a Les Paul. I certainly believe he honestly feels that way about it. However, I didn’t feel it had any PRS qualities and actually out-Gibsoned the Historic Les Paul I owned at the same time (albeit the wrong Gibson!). It’s interesting that two different players can feel so differently about the same guitar.

When Collings announced they were producing the City Limits I was all over that. The first one I tried was the first CL into Mass Street Music. It was bright and zingy (and I like bright – my #1 electric is a ’69 Tele), and sounded great when playing chords (it had a bit of a Gretsch 6120 quality – think “Who’s Next”), but was nothing like a Les Paul for me. I like it a lot until I started soloing. The single notes, in my hands, were somewhat thin – especially up the neck. Again, this is just an opinion.

The next one I tried was among the first received at another favorite music store. This one was fuller sounding and had better sustain. However, it was still more “refined” sound than I was seeking. I know that Bill Collings was after a more articulate Les Paul – and, given the two I played, it seems he accomplished that. However, for me, there was something subtracted in the process – it is hard to put my finger on it. I just couldn’t make the guitar sing. Maybe it is just that simple. When I soloed on those two guitars – I had to dig very deep for what I was after – too deep. Maybe had I tried a third CL, I would have been knocked over -- who knows?

However, that is just me. My original post was simply wondering if anyone else had a similar experience with the CL. Apparently, most have not, and many seem to adore the guitar. I’m glad – especially since it was a CL that pried my next guitar out of GAT’s hands! I recently put down my credit card down on his former Grosh Set Neck at Fat Sound. When I asked GAT about it, he told me it was a great guitar, but he was looking for something not quite so heavy in the tone department. He went on to rave about the lighter tone of his City Limits. Well, that makes perfect sense. I’m looking for something a bit more “heavy” than I found in the City Limits. He prefers something “lighter” than the Grosh Set Neck. It’s a beautiful thing!

Uh -- does this long post make any sense at all...?Sounds pretty reasonable to me. ;)

[Blindspot]

I'm just glad that all guitars and amps sound exactly the same to me.

[CDaughtry]

I looks killer on stage.

I bet you do!:D

[Dave Orban]

I bet you do!:DDoes he have cool shorts, like someone we know...?!? :confused:

[GAT]

I bet you do!:D


Oopss!!!!:D

[CDaughtry]

Does he have cool shorts, like someone we know...?!? :confused:


Not everyone can pull off THAT look!:D

[Chun13]

:-D

I'm just glad that all guitars and amps sound exactly the same to me.

[Dave Orban]

Not everyone can pull off THAT look!:D

...and thank God for that...! LOL!

:rotflmao

[Pete Faragher]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night. Absolutely killer !!!!! I will post the CL/JG comparison thread in the next few days.

Pete

[GAT]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night. Absolutely killer !!!!! I will post the CL/JG comparison thread in the next few days.

Pete

Dang Pete,

You have the greatest gear! I really want to hear this comparison as I'll never get a chance to hear a JG!

Gilbert

[matte]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night. Absolutely killer !!!!! I will post the CL/JG comparison thread in the next few days.

Petetoo bad you can't compare a collings to an lj.

[JoeinLA]

Sound clips please :)

j/k ;)

[Tycho]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night. Absolutely killer !!!!! I will post the CL/JG comparison thread in the next few days.

Pete

Pete, did you get one of the ones that just came into the 12th Fret? If so, you must have moved pretty fast! Do they have the 290 as well?

[Pete Faragher]

Pete, did you get one of the ones that just came into the 12th Fret? If so, you must have moved pretty fast! Do they have the 290 as well?


Yes it is the one from the Fret. Dave Wren called me the day it came in and I went right down to try it. I played it twice last week and put it on hold on Sat. Bought it yesterday. The 290 sold on Saturday. I have a 290 in TV yellow on order with them. Should be in by March, I'm told.

Cheers
Pete

[matte]

Yes it is the one from the Fret. Dave Wren called me the day it came in and I went right down to try it. I played it twice last week and put it on hold on Sat. Bought it yesterday. The 290 sold on Saturday. I have a 290 in TV yellow on order with them. Should be in by March, I'm told.

Cheers
Pete
hey pete, have you ever played an lj?

[Pete Faragher]

hey pete, have you ever played an lj?

Don't even know what lj stands for. ????????? Let me know.

[Dave Orban]

It's the Stevens guitar that looks similar to the Collings, which is another takeoff on the basic LP formula...

[matte]

It's the Stevens guitar that looks similar to the Collings, which is another takeoff on the basic LP formula...have you played an lj, dave?

[Dave Orban]

have you played an lj, dave?No. The only Stevens I played was one of his semi-hollows -- I guess that's the Classic...? -- at a guitar show a couple years back. Hardly a great venue for trying-out a guitar, but I was stll very impressed nonetheless.

[matte]

No. The only Stevens I played was one of his semi-hollows -- I guess that's the Classic...? -- at a guitar show a couple years back. Hardly a great venue for trying-out a guitar, but I was stll very impressed nonetheless.worth checking out. the late great danny gatton loved his.
http://stevensguitars.com/artists/artists-dannygatton/dan4.jpg

[Tycho]

The 290 sold on Saturday.


Arggh! Clearly I need to get in better with Dave.

[kingsleyd]

hey pete, have you ever played an lj?

hey matte, have you ever played a cl? (no intention to talk smack to ya, i'm just askin'...)

[martie6621]

If anyone is looking to get an as new. minty CL and save about $500 over a new one, I have one for sale on ebay. BIN of $4,000 (and no wait) and will include shipping for TGP members. Email me for pics and details or see it on ebay.

martie6671@hotmail.com

[JoeB63]

If anyone is looking to get an as new. minty CL and save about $500 over a new one, I have one for sale on ebay. BIN of $4,000 (and no wait) and will include shipping for TGP members. Email me for pics and details or see it on ebay.

martie6671@hotmail.com

Nice looking guitar. Why are you selling it so soon?

[phoenix 7]

I drove about 200 miles to try one out and was prepared to buy it if it knocked me out. In fact, that was my plan. After A/B'g it in a quiet practice room with my upgraded R8 for 45 minutes, I decided my R8 sounded better -- fatter, bigger, more bandwidth, clarity and character. (I brought my Vicky Bassman to the store for the comparison.) That CL Deluxe was really beautiful, though, and I was the first person to play it (or so the sales guy who brought it out of the stock room told me). So maybe it needs some time to open up. But it did seem a little sterile to me -- a little short on soul and character. Based on the raves I've heard from other players/owners, it's possible that their quality varies a bit. I only played one CL Deluxe.

I own a Grosh Set Neck and agree that it sounds "heavier" than the CL Deluxe.

BTW - I used to moderate the Collings forum, so it's not like I'm biased against them. (I own 2 Collings acoustics and have on I-35 on the way.)

[AD]

"So maybe it needs some time to open up"

I think that's typical for any brand new guitar. As i mentionned earlier in teh thread, i think the lollar's are half the magic (IMO) - looks like you have a set in your R8 which would make it a really good a/b

Going out on a limb, i'd say Strat players (inc. me) will prefer the CL over a typical LP (due to scale lenght, clarity/brightness, neck shape). YMMV.

[Lex Luthier]

I wish I didn't have to drive 350 miles to check one out. The only Collings dealer close to me doesn't want to carry the electrics.

[Secret Ingredient]

This may have been the dumbest post I have ever posted to a guitar forum.

May I use this as my new signature?

[Bassomatic]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night...

(insert heavy snoring sound)




:D

[KarlH]

Pete... im interested in your comparison/review...

[gpecoulas]

Got the CL Deluxe yesterday. I feel asleep with it in my hands last night. Absolutely killer !!!!! I will post the CL/JG comparison thread in the next few days.

Pete



Pete , did you ever post the CL/JG comparison?

[TomK]

I played both a CL and an I35 - unplugged. The CL was very nice - played great - but did remind me of a cross between a LP and PRS. It felt "modern" to me rather than "vintage vibey".

The I35, OTH, was the best playing 335 style guitar I ever had my hands on. None of that thunky Gibson sound unplugged. Rang like a bell.

Both guitars, however, belonged to a well known player so no telling if they are representative of the lot. At $4000 bucks they better all be great, eh?

I really like the Austin connection names - City Limits and I35. I would buy an I35 in a heartbeat if I was shopping for that kind of axe.

[lv]

Until I can afford a JG, I'm very happy with the "lifeless, muffled tone of a typical historic RI".

lol, yea, I'm ok with mine too. I have no doubt these guitars are nice, but for my purposes I am skeptical that they will eclipse a good historic Les Paul in tone.

[v-verb]

I tried my friend Pete's CL pictured here http://12fret.com/new/Collings_Electric_Guitar%20_pg.html . It was REALLY nice - the top was gorgeous 3D. I gotta say I still like my historics and conversions more although the Collings was a Les Paul for those who find Lesters somewhat unergonomic.

I also played his Gustavvson. That remains a fave and if I could swing a deal with him to get it I think Iwould...

[Dave Orban]

Boner alert.

http://12fret.com/new/Collings_290_electric_guitar.jpg

[Pete Faragher]

Pete , did you ever post the CL/JG comparison?


Hi Guys

In the days I've had my new Collings, I still have not done a truly representitive shootout. I am SOOOO busy with work, I honestly do not have the couple of hours needed to be completely thorough. However I will say they are very different beasts and each one is completely a worthy instrument.
I will say this The CL feels modern. Although the finish definitely has a worn in feel. With the tummy and (crotch??) cuts it fits your body in a much more friendly way than a LP. But sounds very vintagey. It is warm and smooth. Low output hums, sounds like Clapton on the Bluesbreaker album.
The JG on the other hand feels vintage, but sounds more modern than the CL. Odd eh? I don't mean the JG sounds like a PRS or something. In a blindfold test I would think I would pair up the sound of the CL with the feel of the JG and visa versa.
Hey Gibson makes a damn good guitar in the Historic LP. I had my share of them. Most are very good and I played one (the only one IMHO) that was superb. That was in Guitar Centre on Sunset back in Dec. It was twice the price of a CL and more than a JG too. Oddly enough it sounded a lot like the CL. But ergonomically they are not for me.
The CL is much more friendly to a guy that has come from a Fender, then PRS background (me).

Pete

[Pete Faragher]

I also played his Gustavvson. That remains a fave and if I could swing a deal with him to get it I think Iwould...


Not a chance. :horse

[lv]

My issue with the Collings is at that price I would expect a bit more on the options, especially neck size, radius, frets. Seems most of the other builders in this genre (not Gibson) let you totally customize the guitar's specs.

[v-verb]

Not a chance. :horse


A man can dream:Spank

[phoenix 7]

Thanks for the review, Pete.

What I'd love to know is which guitar, in your subjective/objective opinion, sounds better overall -- the JG or the CL?

[kingsleyd]

Thanks for the review, Pete.

What I'd love to know is which guitar, in your subjective/objective opinion, sounds better overall -- the JG or the CL?

Why is it necessary for one or the other to "sound better overall"?

[phoenix 7]

Why is it necessary for one or the other to "sound better overall"?

Not "necessary" -- they could sound different but equally good. But in my experience (and most other people's, I think), some guitars "sound better overall" than some other guitars. Many JG players seem to think that the JG sounds generally better than most other LP-type guitars. I'm just wondering how the CL stacks up to the JG, and if Pete prefers one to the other in certain respects. Not a trick question.

[tonedaddy]

Why is it necessary for one or the other to "sound better overall"?

Because on TGP, music and gear is a sport.
And no sport is worth playing if you can't win.
;) :D

[slopeshoulder]

I plyaed one CL that was sterile and two that were great. The I-35's I played have big fat percussive attack. That's where I'm going.

[phoenix 7]

I plyaed one CL that was sterile and two that were great. The I-35's I played have big fat percussive attack. That's where I'm going.

Glad to hear another great report on the I-35. Mine should be here soon.

[Jim Soloway]

I went by the Collings booth at NAM today. I was really looking forward to seeing these after some of the great reviews I've read. I hate to say it, but as the thread title suggests, I was totally underwhelmed. They were heavy and I didn't think there was anything particularly outstanding about them. Now the I-35 and the I-35 Deluxe were something else all togther. Those were fantastic. They looked great, felt great, played great, and sounded great. The neck joint was flawless, just generally wonderful guitars. It almost felt like the 35 and the CL were made by different companies.

[kingsleyd]

Now the I-35 and the I-35 Deluxe were something else all togther. Those were fantastic. They looked great, felt great, played great, and sounded great. The neck joint was flawless, just generally wonderful guitars. It almost felt like the 35 and the CL were made by different companies.

[Tag voice] Glad you see it my way on the I-35, Jim! :dude [/Tag voice]

I'm down in New Paltz for the weekend and have infected a few of my friends here with the I-35 Deluxe virus. It's not at all difficult to do -- as soon as they see, hear, and feel the guitar... it's all over.

[Pete Faragher]

I went by the Collings booth at NAM today. I was really looking forward to seeing these after some of the great reviews I've read. I hate to say it, but as the thread title suggests, I was totally underwhelmed. They were heavy and I didn't think there was anything particularly outstanding about them. Now the I-35 and the I-35 Deluxe were something else all togther. Those were fantastic. They looked great, felt great, played great, and sounded great. The neck joint was flawless, just generally wonderful guitars. It almost felt like the 35 and the CL were made by different companies.


Well that is a surprise. I can only speak for the one I own, as it is the only CL I've played. Mine is alive, light, and very responsive. At least as resonant as my JG and more so than the 50's LP's I've owned. Not only do I
think this way, but every employee at the 12th Fret (where I bought mine) felt the same way. David Wren, one of the owners of the store and a legendary builder in his own right felt that my guitar was perhaps the best electric he has ever played.
I am not doubting the detractors of the guitar here. I just find it funny that there is such a difference from guitar to guitar. Especially when Collings is renown for it's high quailty and consistency across the board with their acoustic guitars and mandolins. I can only think that it is a learning curve for them in their transition to the electric market.

Pete

[Jim Soloway]

Well that is a surprise. I can only speak for the one I own, as it is the only CL I've played. Mine is alive, light, and very responsive. At least as resonant as my JG and more so than the 50's LP's I've owned. Not only do I
think this way, but every employee at the 12th Fret (where I bought mine) felt the same way. David Wren, one of the owners of the store and a legendary builder in his own right felt that my guitar was perhaps the best electric he has ever played.
I am not doubting the detractors of the guitar here. I just find it funny that there is such a difference from guitar to guitar. Especially when Collings is renown for it's high quailty and consistency across the board with their acoustic guitars and mandolins. I can only think that it is a learning curve for them in their transition to the electric market.

Pete


It was a surprise, but then what companies have at their booths at NAMM is not always the most representative example of what they build. It could also have been a function of checking out the I35-Deluxe first. That was just a stunning guitar, so perhaps the CL suffered only in the comparison.

[phoenix 7]

Wow, "inconsistent" isn't a word I'd think of applying to Collings. Must be the learning curve, as mentioned. Given Collings experience with acoustic instruments, it kind of makes sense that the semi-hollow I-35's are more consistent. Very interesting to hear that Pete's CL Deluxe holds its own vis a vis the JG.

[matte]

Very interesting to hear that Pete's CL Deluxe holds its own vis a vis the JG.based on pete's aesthetics, needs, skill set, etc. not an absolute.

[GAT]

I feel my CL is like Pete described, alive, resonant, lightweight. I literally play only this guitar most of the time except my Chapin strat and Lentz Tele. The CL just has it for me. Can hardly wait for my I35.

[Pete Faragher]

based on pete's aesthetics, needs, skill set, etc. not an absolute.

Matte I believe that's a given.
But, based on anyone's subjective opinion, in their own world, they are absolutes. It's just if anyone cares to listen to and agree with anothers opinion, then it become an absolute for the two and so on and so on. That is what a forum is about. And the amount of asskissing that goes on here makes this trend an absolute. Very entertaining I must add.

Pete

[GAT]

Matte I believe that's a given.
But, based on anyone's subjective opinion, in their own world, they are absolutes. It's just if anyone cares to listen to and agree with anothers opinion, then it become an absolute for the two and so on and so on. That is what a forum is about. And the amount of asskissing that goes on here makes this trend an absolute. Very entertaining I must add.

Pete

Well said.

[v-verb]

Matte I believe that's a given.
But, based on anyone's subjective opinion, in their own world, they are absolutes. It's just if anyone cares to listen to and agree with anothers opinion, then it become an absolute for the two and so on and so on. That is what a forum is about. And the amount of asskissing that goes on here makes this trend an absolute. Very entertaining I must add.

Pete

Pete, your writing entertains the hell out of me!!!

Pete's CL is an amazing instrument. I'm a die hard Les Paul fan - Matte actually turned me on to them years ago when we traded emails regarding Jen Turner and how she switched from PRS to a Les Paul.

I prefer a great Les Paul to a JG - that's purely my opinion. That said I would love to have Pete's JG but he won't let it go.

In any case it should be no surprise that two identical guitars could play radically different with differing response and tone. So dismissing CL's because of 1 or 2 duff guitars is shortsighted - again IMO.

I'll likely get a Collings CL when they hit the used market.

Carry on.:AOK

[Darby Crash]

Matte I believe that's a given.
But, based on anyone's subjective opinion, in their own world, they are absolutes. It's just if anyone cares to listen to and agree with anothers opinion, then it become an absolute for the two and so on and so on. That is what a forum is about. And the amount of asskissing that goes on here makes this trend an absolute. Very entertaining I must add.

Pete

That's just your opinion. :)

[matte]

And the amount of asskissing that goes on here makes this trend an absolute. Very entertaining I must add.

Peteasskissing? haven't noticed/looked.

[slipbeer]

I just spent 20 minutes with an I-35 literally about an hour ago at Martin Music in Memphis.

It's not something I'm in the market for and I tried to have very little in the way of expectations.

HOLY SHNIKES...WOWWOWWOW...GAGAGAGAGAGAGA.

What a great neck and what a great playing semi-hollowbody. I wish I could have spent the day with it (and technically, for something just south of 6k I could)

On the other hand, for the price, it should be.

[Pete Faragher]

asskissing? haven't noticed/looked.

LOL !!!!! :D :D :D
I'm using that.

[matte]

LOL !!!!! :D :D :D
I'm using that.it's all yours! many happy re(c)tu(m)rns!:)

[slopeshoulder]

The CL''s I played (one more today) were all light (compared to les pauls). BTW, while the have tummy cut, they are a little wider across the lower bout.

[Jim Soloway]

I went back to their both today by request and took a look at the 290 Jr type. Very nice guitar. Light weight, resonant and musical.

[mep]

I have only played one CL and thought it was quite good. However, I bought a 290 and it is simply a killer guitar. I keep getting impressed by how good it sounds and how versitile it is.

[mik777]

Aren't they about 5k?

[GAT]

The 290s are about $2160, the CL are $4k range and the I35s are in the $5k range.

[stringer]

Played a CL at their booth yesterday. Overall playability was excellent; probably it's biggest strength. Good balance and comfort. Speaking only in clean tones, the neck pup was very nice in a jazzy sort of way. The bridge pup however, was very brittle sounding to my ear, thus also ruining the combined position for me.

For an "off the rack" guitar, it's quite good, but personally it would be hard to justify the price when there are so many great luthier's around that can provide significantly better value.

[Chops]

I concur with Guitarhak. I owned one and it didn't work out for me. My obsevations on it's sound ae pretty consistent with Guitarhak's, except I don't recall mine having any dead spots. For this style of guitar, I own a Gibson R9 that have not been able to better. I am interested, however, in checking out a Gustavvson and a McInturff Carolina. I am not biased against Collings, as I have an I-35 that is terrific and a OM-1A that I play everyday.

[dewman]

I have to say that my experience has been wonderful. I tried dozens of R7s, R8s and R9s and found the Collings CL deluxe I picked up recently to be better sounding than all of them. Better built and Better feeling too. Highly resonant and way full of mojo. I have played some CL Deluxes that didnt turn me on at all. But this one is dialed in. Best R9 style guitar I have ever played. Its an amazing instrument- not refined in the least to me. You can hit it hard or soft and make great noises. and it has a big tight bottom end and the top is creamy. I was surprised that it didnt sound thin given the light weight and Lollar Imperials, but it is sassy. I recently upgraded pickups in my ES335 to fralin PAFs which I love since they have that bottom end and are smooth with the top end and this CL deluxe has even more low end and chunk but is more articulate. It is really a responsive guitar. Tuning stability is great. My only peeve is the knobs, hard for me to adjust on the fly but I am getting used to it. But what is most amazing is that I dont have to turn the volume knob down to get into a different zone for touch sensitive playing like other guitars, I can just lessen the attack and the guitar responds, so I am not that worried about it. Clips forth coming, there is a need- I havent been able to find any. Here's a pict-
[URL="http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n252/blivetgun/7190_amber_4_lg.jpg"] (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n252/blivetgun/7190_amber_4_lg.jpg)

[phoenix 7]

Beautiful guitar - congrats! - and nice review.

[bearbike137]

I My only peeve is the knobs, hard for me to adjust on the fly but I am getting used to it. But what is most amazing is that I dont have to turn the volume knob down to get into a different zone for touch sensitive playing like other guitars, I can just lessen the attack and the guitar responds, so I am not that worried about it. "]

You nailed it on the head. I had the same exact reaction with my I-35. At first I thought, how am I going to dial these knobs in on the fly? However, the guitar is so touch sensitive and so responsive to even the smallest changes in attack that I mostly just leave all the knobs wide open and go. I have never played another guitar like it. It seems to be an extension of my arms, fingers and soul when I play it. I feel it and the I-35 plays it. Way cool.

Oh, and sweet CL, by the way! Congrats.

[GAT]

I have to say that my experience has been wonderful. I tried dozens of R7s, R8s and R9s and found the Collings CL deluxe I picked up recently to be better sounding than all of them. Better built and Better feeling too. Highly resonant and way full of mojo. I have played some CL Deluxes that didnt turn me on at all. But this one is dialed in. Best R9 style guitar I have ever played. Its an amazing instrument- not refined in the least to me. You can hit it hard or soft and make great noises. and it has a big tight bottom end and the top is creamy. I was surprised that it didnt sound thin given the light weight and Lollar Imperials, but it is sassy. I recently upgraded pickups in my ES335 to fralin PAFs which I love since they have that bottom end and are smooth with the top end and this CL deluxe has even more low end and chunk but is more articulate. It is really a responsive guitar. Tuning stability is great. My only peeve is the knobs, hard for me to adjust on the fly but I am getting used to it. But what is most amazing is that I dont have to turn the volume knob down to get into a different zone for touch sensitive playing like other guitars, I can just lessen the attack and the guitar responds, so I am not that worried about it. Clips forth coming, there is a need- I havent been able to find any. Here's a pict-
<A href="http://[URL="http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n252/blivetgun/7190_amber_4_lg.jpg" target=_blank>http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n252/blivetgun/7190_amber_4_lg.jpg"]

That is just beautiful!!!!

I still love my black CL Deluxe, it just sings.

[Carlo]

+1 on the knobs!

When my I-35 Deluxe arrived, I had the same thought - I was even thinking of replacing them with more conventional knobs.

I decided to play it for awhile, then decide. I was amazed at how responsive the guitar is. I found that while playing, only the very slightest turn of the knob, if at all, was required to nail the exact tone desired.

Yes, the I-35 Deluxe may be the end all cure for GAS if such a thing is possible. I had been searching for a great 335 for years - owned a few but they just couldn't cut it. I read about the jaw-dropping response that everyone had, and, frankly didn't really believe the hype that a guitar could be so good.

Mine arrived and made a believer out of me!

I'm getting rid of all but one of my other guitars to buy a second I-35 Deluxe!

When you pick one up, you just can't put it down!

Thank you, Mr Collings!

[phoenix 7]

I agree on pretty much all points re: the I-35 knobs. I also agree that the I-35 is a phenomenal guitar! After playing my R8 almost exclusively for three years, the I-35 is my new main squeeze.

[waggclan]

I wish I could join in on the discussion... But I've been waiting for my 290 to arrive since last December. Patrick, from Quincy's Guitars in Austin, assures me that I will be receiving it some time this month... lol... :o

[The bear]

I tried an I-35 and it responded better to change in dynamics with the pick etc. to any other guitar I have ever tried.I was quite surprised-I have never had an experience like that before!


www.myspace.com/josteing (http://www.myspace.com/josteing)

[jharpersj]

Hey all I have a cl in crimson unbelievable ax but neck is too big for my small hands, anyways if anyone is interested I would sell it for $3650 which is a steal, thanks !

[GuitarNorton]

I was so underwhelmed with the City Limits Deluxe I bought that I bought an I-35 Deluxe, and so underwhelmed with it that I bought a 290.
I don't know how anyone could be underwhemed with these guitars. CL is like the best Les Paul I've ever played, I-35 and 290 just perfect in every way. I'll have to get some pics posted.

[dewman]

I agree on the 290 especially. I am a little attached to my ES335 since it is a special one, but the I-35 is very very very very nice and what I was hoping the CS-336 would have been for me. Its big $$ though, but probably well worth it. The Collings was an extraordinary purchase for me. However, these guitars are so good that it is worth selling of two or three mid rangers and getting a CL deluxe or a more affordable 290. That's probably my next Collings- I love the different styles available and they play and sound great.

[JMG]

I was so underwhelmed with the City Limits Deluxe I bought that I bought an I-35 Deluxe, and so underwhelmed with it that I bought a 290.
I don't know how anyone could be underwhemed with these guitars. CL is like the best Les Paul I've ever played, I-35 and 290 just perfect in every way. I'll have to get some pics posted.

+1!

[57gold]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb118/57gold/cl7189_crimson_6_lg.jpg

[57gold]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb118/57gold/cl7189_crimson_3_lg.jpg

[57gold]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb118/57gold/cldlx_crimson_7189_1_lg.jpg


Gibson forgot how to make guitars like these; lost the craftsmanship; won't pay for the quality wood; and refuses to deliver on their own history and legacy!

Took guys like Bill to "motivate" Martin into returning to some echo of its past craftsmanship. Just like John Suhr, Tyler and D'pergo are out "Fendering" Fender.

The CL, to me, is the guitar Gibson wished it could make.

[kingsleyd]

Gibson forgot how to make guitars like these; lost the craftsmanship; won't pay for the quality wood; and refuses to deliver on their own history and legacy!

As pretty much everyone here knows, I'm a card-carrying apologist for Collings.

But I can refute the statement above quite easily with this guitar, which is all of six weeks old. (or thereabouts)

http://images.lilypix.com/thumbnails.php?album=1375

OK, so I did change the pickups and pots. Big whoop.

It shares time around my house with all the other guitars pictured at the website above (do a little looking around!) and I'll tell you, it gives nothing away to ANY of the other guitars I own in terms of craftsmanship, quality wood, and (most of all) SOUND. In fact, I just got back from a little guitar-fest down in MD and the consensus overall favorite was my R9.

Yeah, maybe the average CL is better in all these facets than the average R-whatever, but at least with this one, it's clear Gibson hasn't forgotten -- entirely, anyway -- how to make "guitars like these."

[57gold]

....1957 Goldtop, TV, Jr, ES 175; 1958 Black Beauty; 1959 ES 335, 345 and 355; 1962 LP/SG; 1963 Super 400 and SG Special; and 1964 ES 335 and Firebird V.

Owned new, post 1982 R's, a V, an ES 335 and none came close to the Gibsons made pre 1965 nor the Collings CL and CL Jazz that I now own. Played a bunch of the new ones (broad range of time) and they all have been dead as doornails.

Can imagine that there are good ones....I never have found one. Sold all but my 1972 LP Deluxe (bought w/paper route $s new).

Your 2007 R9 looks great. Never seen one that looks so....much like an old one....a really good one at that.

[phoenix 7]

As pretty much everyone here knows, I'm a card-carrying apologist for Collings.

But I can refute the statement above quite easily with this guitar, which is all of six weeks old. (or thereabouts)

http://images.lilypix.com/thumbnails.php?album=1375

OK, so I did change the pickups and pots. Big whoop.

It shares time around my house with all the other guitars pictured at the website above (do a little looking around!) and I'll tell you, it gives nothing away to ANY of the other guitars I own in terms of craftsmanship, quality wood, and (most of all) SOUND. In fact, I just got back from a little guitar-fest down in MD and the consensus overall favorite was my R9.

Yeah, maybe the average CL is better in all these facets than the average R-whatever, but at least with this one, it's clear Gibson hasn't forgotten -- entirely, anyway -- how to make "guitars like these."

As another Collings I-35 owner as well as a Gibson R8 owner, I found this post fascinating. I've sometimes wondered if I'm crazy in finding so much to like about the best new Gibsons -- and finding that they hold their own in competition with great boutique stuff, especially in the area of tone. Nice to see some corroboration.

[kingsleyd]

In some ways, it almost makes one crazier to know that Gibson CAN do it sometimes (very very rarely; I've played a whole lotta R9s in the years since they started doing them, and only a handful have sounded this kinda good) but they mostly don't.

Oh, btw, I should point out that the actual "consensus fave" was my '62 335. The R9 was the consensus fave of the maple/mahogany double-humbucker guitars. (and that includes a certain recently arrived guitar from across the pond)

[bearbike137]

As pretty much everyone here knows, I'm a card-carrying apologist for Collings.

But I can refute the statement above quite easily with this guitar, which is all of six weeks old. (or thereabouts)

http://images.lilypix.com/thumbnails.php?album=1375

OK, so I did change the pickups and pots. Big whoop.



Kingsleyd,

Whereas I agree with you, for the most part, in that I like Gibson's Historic Les Pauls (I have owned and sold three 03/R9 brazilians and a 03/R7 -- I once played an 01/R8 that was as good as any guitar ever), it drives me nuts that swapping out the pups and pots is a given on those guitars. I can't think of another quality guitar builder where this is the case. This is not true for custom shop Fenders, or PRS, or Collings, or Grosh, or Hamer, etc. Gibson should be putting pups and pots in their guitars that live up to the term Historic.

However, if Gibson started puitting the finest electronics and pickups in their guitars -- a whole bunch of boutique pup makers would probably go out of business! Why they just don't buy out a guy like Wagner, or Tim White, or Rolphs, or whoever and start mass producing those pickups is beyond me.

[Dave Orban]

Kingsleyd,

Whereas I agree with you, for the most part, in that I like Gibson's Historic Les Pauls (I have owned and sold three 03/R9 brazilians and a 03/R7 -- I once played an 01/R8 that was as good as any guitar ever), it drives me nuts that swapping out the pups and pots is a given on those guitars. I can't think of another quality guitar builder where this is the case. This is not true for custom shop Fenders, or PRS, or Collings, or Grosh, or Hamer, etc. Gibson should be putting pups and pots in their guitars that live up to the term Historic.

However, if Gibson started puitting the finest electronics and pickups in their guitars -- a whole bunch of boutique pup makers would probably go out of business! Why they just don't buy out a guy like Wagner, or Tim White, or Rolphs, or whoever and start mass producing those pickups is beyond me.
I agree with you in principle, but the reality is that, no matter WHAT pickups Gibson were to put in there -- hell, they could be hand-made by Jesus himself, with components he bought from Ghandi -- there'd always be a fair number of guys who want more snake oil. Not a knock on the boutique pickup makers at all, but how many different "accurate" reproductions of a PAF (or of your favorite pickup) can there actually be...? LOL!

I actually enjoy trying the different flavors of pickups, and I think that no matter WHAT the big evil corporation ends up putting in their guitars, there'll be PLENTY of guys out there looking for something "different".

;)

[dewman]

Nothing wrong with Gibsons. I looked there first and have owned several and currently love my ES-335 from 1989 like you wouldn't believe. I tried so many historics and found that it was so hard to find one with a decent setup, or they had issues with electronics or pickups or binding or finish (orangepeel), tuning stability, etc. When you find 'the one' where it all works, it is absolutely great. I found three recently that were what I would consider great guitars. But I felt like the Collings CL deluxe I have had the tone of the '59 on a good day, it had a perfect neck carve for me, it had a great weight at slightly under 8 lbs, and was resonant and has great tone from the pickups. I felt the tension was too great so recently topwrapped it in an experiment. I think I can comfortably go up to 11s with the topwrap since the break angle isnt steep. However I liked the coupling already non-topwrapped so I might go back to tha original setup but slightly raise the tailpiece to lower the tension a tad. I just wanted it comparable to my 335 which is a little slinky with 11s and as such is prefect for blues playing. But I was impressed at how good it still sounds going with the topwrap. I think the wood in my case is the key. Its a nicely crafted guitar and is one of those rare ones that sounds good no matter how it is set up. I do think they are extremely expensive, and I wished they were priced lower to be comparable to the R9s, but regardless its a wonderful instrument and one that I wished I could play well enough to justify having such a nice instrument. Gibson's rule, but COllings are amazing guitars and mine in particular captured what I though tonally and feel-wise were the best that Gibson offered. I'd still like a 290 COllings, and also would like an R4 and/or an R7. SO GAS hasn't stopped...

[duckbunny]

Could someone please explain to me what this is? I love it when people talk about mojo as if it is some kind of quantitative feature of a guitar.:rolleyes:

http://www.cybershatter.com/Pictures/funnypics/austin%20powers.JPG
It's the grooooove, baby!
When a guitar is shagalicious, you just know it, so just be-have!

[kingsleyd]

I agree with you in principle, but the reality is that, no matter WHAT pickups Gibson were to put in there -- hell, they could be hand-made by Jesus himself, with components he bought from Ghandi -- there'd always be a fair number of guys who want more snake oil. Not a knock on the boutique pickup makers at all, but how many different "accurate" reproductions of a PAF (or of your favorite pickup) can there actually be...? LOL!

I've actually done a lot of thinking about, and listening to different humbucking pickups lately. This is probably a result of having accumulated a whole lot of humbucker-equipped guitars (as in entirely too many) over the past nine months.

What I've found is that a lot of the boutique makers typically wind pickups that want to help the guitar get "that PAF sound." Burstbuckers, in particular, do this. Well, if the guitar in question needs a little help to get "that sound" (true, in my experience, of most Historic LPs) then it could work. Sort of. And really, just because a bunch of us around TGP and LPF change pickups as a matter of course, I wouldn't assume everyone who buys an Historic does that.

But when you have a guitar that sounds really good acoustically (and how many of you ever really listen to how your guitar sounds acoustically -- be honest -- I spent an hour in Paul Reed Smith's office the other day and saw him demonstrate how he listens to a guitar. It's very innaresting... I've never seen anyone else do that; but that's another story for another day) then all you want from a pickup is to give you the same sound but LOUDER. You want all those same partials, in the same balance.

Good PAFs seem to do that. There are a few modern pickups that (more or less) do that, including the set that is now in my R9. (more about them when the winder and the distributor have gotten it together to be able to start selling them to the general public...) Actually, of the stock Gibson pickups, the '57 Classics come closer to doing that than the Burstbuckers. And Seymour Duncan's Antiquities do as well. If you have an R-7/8/9 that sounds great acoustically, the '57 Classics and Antiquities will typically flatter the guitar better than most of the boutique humbuckers.

Dave, ya know, I just drove through, or rather, around Trenton yesterday. If I'd thought about it, I would have gotten your phone # so I could have stopped by. I had a whole bunch of guitars with me. It's eversomuch better to have guitars in hand to make points like this.

Oh, well.

[Dave Orban]

Dave, ya know, I just drove through, or rather, around Trenton yesterday. If I'd thought about it, I would have gotten your phone # so I could have stopped by. I had a whole bunch of guitars with me. It's eversomuch better to have guitars in hand to make points like this.

Oh, well.
Next time... ;)

[kingsleyd]

Oh, and one more addendum: it's not just Gibsons.

I had the pickup guy mentioned in the preceding post wind me a couple of pairs of four-conductor versions of his pickups to replace what came in two very highly-regarded boutique guitars I've had delivered in the past couple of months. This because I could clearly hear that the pickups weren't delivering the true voice of the guitar.

(note: I'm not talking about the Collings I-35; the Lollars in that guitar are pretty darn good except for my oft-reported beef with the way they go totally dark in the 7 - 9 range on the vol pot, which is more a pots/wiring issue anyway)

[57gold]

What is the drill? kingsleyd, I thought it was my imagination but my KF50 and Black n' Tan both react well to my PAF guitars when volume is rolled off...the CL kinda dissappears?

Wrong pots?

[kingsleyd]

What is the drill? kingsleyd, I thought it was my imagination but my KF50 and Black n' Tan both react well to my PAF guitars when volume is rolled off...the CL kinda dissappears?

Wrong pots?

I don't think so, although I haven't been inside a Collings to see what they are using. The basic tapers seem good, and Collings used top-quality stuff everywhere else so why would they scrimp on pots?

What I think it is is the "50s wiring" trick which has been discussed a lot on the Les Paul forum. Basically, it involves moving the leads to the middle connector on the pots. If you look at your PAF guitars and then your CL you should see the difference. I'm out of town at the moment and haven't got my little diagram of it, but if you do a search on the Les Paul forum you'll find out all you need to know.

Or maybe someone else will weigh in here. You could also call Mark @ www.marksguitarloft.com (http://www.marksguitarloft.com); he will be able to explain exactly what to do. (and he's always happy to talk to anyone who owns a '50s LP!)

Since I have an I-35, redoing the wiring is a major adventure. All the more because the F-holes are noticeably undersized. One day, I'll get around to it. My temporary solution was to buy a Goodrich volume pedal so I could just leave the I-35's volume full on. :rolleyes:

[bearbike137]

Actually, of the stock Gibson pickups, the '57 Classics come closer to doing that than the Burstbuckers. And Seymour Duncan's Antiquities do as well. If you have an R-7/8/9 that sounds great acoustically, the '57 Classics and Antiquities will typically flatter the guitar better than most of the boutique humbuckers.


Wow -- this has been precisely my conclusion also. I have a pair of Duncan Antiquities I will probably never sell and they have been in and out of several guitars. They always sound just like the guitar does. Also, I have alwyas preferred the sound of the '57 Classics to the Burstbuckers. I have always felt they were closer to original PAFs -- at least when cranked.

I agree with you about the 50's wiring also. It really does help with retaining highs as you turn down the volume -- but it does seem to add a little noise, also. I experimented with this on several guitars, and almost every time, the 50's wiring added a bit of 60 cycle hum.

[dewman]

I rewired my CL deluxe to 50s wiring and it is amazing now. No tone loss when rolling dow the volume. Just a simple 15 minute job. Perfect tone now...

[gpecoulas]

I rewired my CL deluxe to 50s wiring and it is amazing now. No tone loss when rolling dow the volume. Just a simple 15 minute job. Perfect tone now...


What's 50s wiring and how does it differ from the standard wiring in the CL? Thanks

[dewman]

the CL deluxe is wired modern style. I rewired mine 50s style and love it much better. No darknes with volume rolloff. I used solder wick to remove the solder cleanly from the pot lugs. I used a pair of needle nose pliers to gently move the grounding lugs around so I could make the new ground connections. I wanted to also simultaneously add some Jensen caps, but first wanted to see how it sounded this way first, and thats about all I needed to do. The pups are really great in the guitar, and the wood is resonant and tonally top notch, so all the results did is provide clarity when rolling down the volume and it also made the tone control more usable. It is tight in there, so if you don't want to do it, take it to a tech. I didnt need to remove any pots or components. I jst did everything with a small soldering iron and used the back access panel to get to everything. Just remember not to heat the components much. Mine looks like it was a stock wiring job since I tried to be ultra careful for obvious reasons. I highly recommend the mod. Somewhere here I read they were going to ship guitars with 50s wiring from now on, I have no substantiated info though, but it would be a great idea.

here is the wiring comparison:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html

[Robert Burns]

Played a few and was completely blown away. For reference, I own or have owned Bakers, Hubers, Suhr, Anderson, Hamer, Gibson, Fender, Heatley, Mcnaught, Mcinturff....I could go on but you get the point.

The Collings guitars I played were every bit as well constructed as any of the above mentioned guitars and absolutely smoked when I plugged them in. I found them to be full and rich sounding with wonderful overtones. The ones I played were crystal clear in the highs without ever sounding bright or harsh. Mids and lower mids were huge sounding, and the CL especially had a kick ass low end. The CL was amazing and the ES-335 type guitar was absolutely jaw dropping. As I said before...I was completely blown away, and that doesn't happen very often.



Could someone please explain to me what this is? I love it when people talk about mojo as if it is some kind of quantitative feature of a guitar.:rolleyes::horse

Yeah...thats a "Dirty" fretboard that needs cleaning !! :rotflmao

[mcuguitar]

I've played many Collings acoustics. Most of them that I played were at Rainbow guitars in Tucson, and they seemed a bit stiff. I definitely didn't want to take any of them home with me. I know, subjective stuff, but they really didn't blow me away, and I felt I had to work a bit too hard to get the notes out. On the other hand, I also have played a few that played very well, and were easier to play. But honestly, none of them compared to a select few Martins that I've played....all pre 1975, and all amazing in volume, playability and tone. Of course their owners wouldn't part with them! But newer Martins are mass produced and don't interest me at all. I visited the factory, and it was pretty ridiculous how many people touched each guitar in it's production. 100?

[dewman]

The Collings get sweeter as you play them. Maybe the nitro cures slowly, but mine are sweetening up nicely.

[GaryMcT]

I played on Collings City Limits that completely blew me away, and one that was average. I think they probably vary just as much as other guitars.

[dewman]

I agree on the variability, but in general they are very consistent versus Fenders and many Gibsons. I have seen great similarities among how they feel and resonate, so the greatest differences were in electronics primarily, at least to me. Weight has been consistent, general feel highly consistent, but some were sweeter than others like any guitar. I shopped around at R7s, R8s R9s and CL Deluxes and found good and bad of each model, so I shopped around til I found one that just spoke to me. I think the ones I have played recently have been much icer feeling and sounding than some of the earlier ones. But I am splitting hairs (again what you do on a 4k guitar!) as I could be happy with most Collings or Historic Gibsons.

[trwigg]

The CL would be a much better sounding guitar with Fralin pickups. As far as beauty and construction, nobody does it better.

[57special]

What scares me is I think I actually understand what you're talking about.
:D

Don't be afraid. I also agree with what you are agreeing with! Let's fly our freak flags high!




(never played an electric Collings, though).

[jeremym19]

I played an I-35 that just might have been the nicest sounding guitar that I have ever heard. I was playing it through a carmen ghia and it was so smooth and thick and sustained forever.:drool I wanted to sell my car to buy the pair but realized my car wasn't worth enough to do that:rotflmao

It was a sweet guitar but i dont think I'll ever own one but we will see:BEER

[dewman]

I'm thinking about trying an experiment by replacing the stock Lollar Imperials with Wolfetone Dr. V pickups. I am also thinking about a cap upgrade as well. The pots look great. Anyone have any experiences with additional pickup/cap swaps in their CL Deluxe. I have heard some fantastic Dr. V's in a friends guitar recently- a Gibson R7, and they made an already great guitar completely amazing sounding.

[GAT]

Dewman,

I had Lollar send me a Hot Imperial, he said it would give it more beef in the low end. I haven't installed it yet as I keep thinking I'm going to sell it, too many humbucker guitars in the house. The I35 is amazing.

[dewman]

I've got to hold off on the Dr. Vs just yet. Just picked up an SG Classic and if I keep it as a backup to the Collings 290 I'll need some new pickups.

I wonder what the differences are in the hot Lollar Imperial, different magnets, if so it might be worth trying a magnet replacement. Dont get me wrong, I like them great, just Sharkey's (fellow gear pager) R7 sounded incredible with those Dr. Vs. I wouldn't believe it had I not heard the before and after...

I got an email from Angela from Collings on my knobs for the CL Deluxe. I asked them if they would place an additional double dot on the opposite side of the original dot so I could have a point of reference to tell approximately what volume position I would be. When you roll those ivroid knobs down past 7 you cant tell if you are 2 or 7 since the single dot isnt readily visible from the top f the guitar for a large portion of the volume range. Might be a nice feature to h if they turn out ok. I'll post picts when they arrive!!

PS Still absolutely loving my CL Deluxe. And te 290 rocks too. Against the SG Classic, an impressive guitar and the best value from Gibson these days, I found the 290 to be highly resonant and richer in tone, but the Lollars didnt have as much bottom end as the stock Gibsons. I'd like some P90s for my 290 that preserves the low end of the Gibsons and the articulation and fell of the Lollars! Both Collings are stellar instruments.

[MikeyG]

I got an email from Angela from Collings on my knobs for the CL Deluxe. I asked them if they would place an additional double dot on the opposite side of the original dot so I could have a point of reference to tell approximately what volume position I would be. When you roll those ivroid knobs down past 7 you cant tell if you are 2 or 7 since the single dot isnt readily visible from the top f the guitar for a large portion of the volume range. Might be a nice feature to h if they turn out ok. I'll post picts when they arrive!!

PS Still absolutely loving my CL Deluxe. And te 290 rocks too. Against the SG Classic, an impressive guitar and the best value from Gibson these days, I found the 290 to be highly resonant and richer in tone, but the Lollars didnt have as much bottom end as the stock Gibsons. I'd like some P90s for my 290 that preserves the low end of the Gibsons and the articulation and fell of the Lollars! Both Collings are stellar instruments.

Dewey, I have Dr V's in my Northwood LP ... I love 'em, great pickups.

Hey this Friday is my last at Duke, we should have lunch like we've been discussing .... 9th street???

[guitarvc]

Anyone else played a Collings City Limits Deluxe and have been less than impressed?

I have played two of them thus far and neither did anything for me. Both guitars were highly regarded by the stores that received them and both sold almost immediately. I found the guitars to be articulate and refined sounding -- but had no mojo and were actually slightly thin sounding. They struck me more as being in the PRS camp than the Gibson camp. Moreover, I didn't think either guitar played up the neck very well. There almost seemed to be a resonant frequency problem up around the 10th to 12th frets -- a bit dead sounding.

They are beautiful and well-crafted guitars -- and Collings makes my favorite acoustics. However, I am amazed at the buzz they have created. Anyone else have a similar feeling? Obviously many people love them and I am in the minority -- and, remember, it's just an opinion.

I agree. I almost bought one and bought a Kurt Wilson Standard instead. I did a side by side comparison, along with a Historic LP and the Kurt nWilson had the mojo that the others lacked. Although not many have heard of Kurt Wilson guitars and I will probably get some flak from some of the TGP members who buy name brands, I have found the sound and playability I have allways wanted from a LP style guitar. I now own 2...the Standard and a Korina LP Special with Pearly Gates humbuckers and am totally satisfied. Check out kurtwilsonguitars.com

[dewman]

Mojo can be found in many places. I have a CL Deluxe that has tons of mojo...and, errrrr, An Edwards Les Paul Custom with mojo...crazy...

[mcuguitar]

I have played many Gibson Historic Les Pauls. None has ever made me break out the checkbook and grenade the 'ol bank account. And therein lies the rub. I'm looking at a either a Collings CL, 290, or a Grosh setneck. I'm not a collector, I'm a player. And in my limited player-mind mentality, you just seem to get way more for the money with the smaller builders. Peace, Jon.

[dewman]

All of those- Grosh set neck, Collings 290 and CL deluxe are fantastic instruments!! There's a beautiful tiger flamed Grosh at Fat Sound now. I didnt even want to plug it in....