Shure ksm9 (vs) Neumann kms105

[KLINKDETROIT]

In a live situation what mic is better and why? I own a Neumann kms105 but wonder about the Shure ksm9 as I originally wanted a live condenser mic that resembled my bassists ksm32. Shure did not have such a mic then but they do now.

Anyone tried both? If so, how do they compare? The eq curve looks like the Shure may cut better but has less lows than the Neumann. Not sure if I would even be heard at the lowest Barry White frequencies that the Neumann has as I am a baritone/tenor. I do alot of breathy stuff as well as screaming and outright singing too. Thanks for any help.

[Mr. dB]

The Shure has much much better pattern control. The Neumann sounds great and all, but it also picks up half of the stage in addition to the singer's voice. I would only use it on a large stage, or for a solo performer. The Shure's balance isn't as "pretty" but I think it's more neutral, and the Shure is useable in situations where the Neumann can be a bit of a headache.

[mischultz]

Heard the KSM9 earlier this year working as the host engineer at a concert here in Atlanta. Can't speak to the Neumann, but the KSM9 is a *very* competent sounding microphone. As a brief aside, I think that a *lot* of people's concern over the peaky/bright character of Shure's stuff is resolved by proximity. The Beta 58 and 87 load up very smoothly on the bottom end - and it makes much better sense out of the emphasis they put on the top - if you stay close.

Best,

Michael

[KLINKDETROIT]

Yeah,I always sing right on the mic as close as possible. I do find the Neumann to be touchy with feedback and my band plays real loud. I do like the Shures specs as far as the 2k boost to make it easier to sing but I have alot of stuff that goes low in the register and am concerned about the shure sounding thin and not capturing everything. I had a beta 58 for a while and liked the ease of singing but it was very thin compared to the Neumann. Is the Shure ksm9 a large or small diaphram? Does anyone know if it has an internal wind screen or no windscreen like the Neumann? Thanks again

[KLINKDETROIT]

Went ahead and bought the Shure KSM9 will be selling either the Shure or the Neuman kms105. Not sure what one yet. Review coming soon.

[therealting]

Interested to hear your thoughts when they come - looks like a very interesting mic, expensive but could be worth it!

[KLINKDETROIT]

I find the Shure to have more mids and the Neumann to have a more scooped eq. Reminds me of the difference between an EL34 & 6L6 guitar tube. I went back and forth as quick as possible at rehearsal and also recorded the different cardiod patterns as well as the Neuman and my U195 back to back. My findings recorded were the same as live. The Neumann has more articulation on the breathy stuff and fuller lows with crisper highs. The Shure is a great mic but I wish they had the Neumann design on the steel mesh instead of foam. I feel the foam muffles the sound. The Shure does not feedback where the Neumann is very touchy and fed back in situation where no eq or position adjustments were made. I returned the Shure although I would have possibly sold the Neumann had the Shures foam design not been the way it is. The Shure seemed to cut thru the mix better but was a bit boxy. I adjusted my eq to sound more like the Shure and now the Neumann sounds almost identical except it has a more open sound due to the grills design mostly. I am worried that it will feed back live where the Shure definately would not as it has adjustable polar patterns. I found the cardiod to be a little thinner sounding version of the supercardiod pattern on the KSM9 but they sounded very similar.

[therealting]

Thanks for the post. Given that the KSM9 has better feedback rejection, I would have guessed that you would have EQ'd it to remove the boxiness instead of EQ'ing the Neumann... but given that the Neumann seems to be quite a bit cheaper I guess your solution does make sense.

I've often thought that aftermarket microphone mesh grilles are an unexploited market. The mesh is a significant part of the design - I prefer Beta 57s to Beta 58s because of the grille. Interestingly, if you look carefully, the picture of the Beta 57 on the box has a multiple-screen grille instead of foam, so I did wonder why they didn't carry it through to production... cost reasons I suppose.

[KLINKDETROIT]

I emailed Shure. This is what they said.

Can I take my old sm58 head or some other mics head and screw it on the ksm9?
* The SM58 grille will not fit.

Can I could take the foam out of my mic head and still use the mic safely?
* Yes.

Does the foam have a real purpose?
* Yes. It reduces "P-popping."

Would the element rust from spit etc?
* No. However, the element will need to be cleaned often as there will be no foam to stop the spit.

I notice the foam in the ksm9 is thicker than my AKG D70. Could I just use thinner foam safely?
* Yes, thinner foam is OK, but will not provide the same "P-pop" protection.

I would have kept it but traded the Shure that I just purchased in on a Yamaha monitor and a SE reflexion filter. The grill was the deciding factor because without the foam there would be alot of plosives. Neumanns design wins on the grill. I am planning on bringing my dbx pro vocal rack pre-eqd to live shows as I need the phantom power anyway plus if the place has feedback issues then I will be all set. I hear the Neumann is designed for large stages. The came out with the kms104 cardiod to combat the feedback issues I would assume.

[Mr. dB]

You need the rack for phantom power?

If you're playing through the kinds of rigs that don't have phantom power on the board, then the sort of cork-sniffing difference in high frequency "air" that made you choose the Neumann over the Shure will be totally lost. The pre-EQ you've set may be a problem at stage volume too.

[therealting]

Well, the Shure is more expensive - so the Neumann is actually the more economical choice! Given that he's already all set to use it, it makes sense to stick with what he already has.

Also, even if the specific sound fidelity at the venue is not quite what you like, things like how the microphone reacts to different mic techniques can make a big difference. I sing differently with my Beta 57 than I do with my Samson C05.

[KLINKDETROIT]

The eq setting would be to tone down the 2k that makes a mic feed back live. I adjusted the eq at rehearsal to sound a little closer to the qualities I liked about the Shure. The airy quality is the difference between singing with or without foam between you and the mics element. The dbx pro vocal does not really mask the sound too much although I would just go direct to the board if they remember to turn the phantom power on to my mic cord. I was not able to use my Neumann 3 weeks ago when opening for Kid Rock's band because of this very problem I ended up using the 58 that was plugged in. It smelled funny too. LOL

[therealting]

I hate using other people's mics... that's why I always carry two mics with me, a condenser and a dynamic. :)

Slightly off topic but I'm looking into the Heil mics as well, I've heard a few people say they're very interesting mics which feel like they fall somewhere between a dynamic and condenser.

[Mr. dB]

The eq setting would be to tone down the 2k that makes a mic feed back live. I adjusted the eq at rehearsal to sound a little closer to the qualities I liked about the Shure. The airy quality is the difference between singing with or without foam between you and the mics element. The dbx pro vocal does not really mask the sound too much although I would just go direct to the board if they remember to turn the phantom power on to my mic cord. I was not able to use my Neumann 3 weeks ago when opening for Kid Rock's band because of this very problem I ended up using the 58 that was plugged in. It smelled funny too. LOL

Oh. Before, you gave the impression that you were boosting the mids on the Neumann, to bring it closer to the Shure's mids. That is what I thought would be problematic.

What kind of venue is Kid Rock playing where they don't have phantom power on either of the consoles? Generally, shows at Kid Rock's level would have anything you could possibly need. I would expect to see separate consoles for the headliner and for support, at both FOH and monitors.

[Crunchyriff]

IIRC, the Neumann KMS105 was created for players using an in-ear monitor system. If you are using stage wedges, the Neumann will always be a pain.

[KLINKDETROIT]

I said his band, not Kid Rock. Keep in mind I live 10 minutes from 8 mile and rehearse on 7 . Local club, no big deal the phantom power was not engaged on the board fo vocals, but whatever, who cares.. I do like the cutting mids of the Shure but it sounds muffled compared to the KMS105. I am open to all suggestions on eq settings with this mic. I realize I do not know everything and am willing to listen to those in the know. I imagine the kms104 may be better for monitors. I just sold my shure in ear monitors a while ago. Oh well.