My approach to a modeling rig and making it work (long)

[TieDyedDevil]

All good points Scott. I don't know that anyone here is guilty of this, but I know that some players seem to think that a modeler should magically transform any amp into something else. Couldn't be further from the truth. Just like with any other kind of rig, you have to consider the impact of every component.

[dewey decibel]

Thanks again for the quick replies, it's really helping.

Trouble is that if it is indeed a selection of tracks from an album, they've been heavily processed in the studio to the point where the music has tones and dynamics in it that simply won't come out of a live amp. I've had horrible luck lifting amp tones from albums, for that reason I've always thought. Every time I've tried this, I sound like a live player with a record going in the background. (Which is why I detest karaoke in church.)Which is why I went with a modeller in the first place. Also, 90% of the tones were cut on the POD. I know I'm not going to get the same sounds, but I was hoping they'd at least fit in the mix better than a mic'd up amp.


As for why the 2.0 and the XTL don't match, I'm too casual a Pod guy to be any use there. Some day, I keep telling myself, I'm going to do Pod versions of my favorite Cyber Twin patches, as well as my analog rigs, so I can use the bean as a backup to my other amps. So far, I just have a nice set of practice setups.It's an EQ thing- the POD 2.0 is warmer and fatter without being muddy. Not to say it sounds better, it's just that I'm used to it. I'm sure there's just as good sounds in the XTL, but not the same sounds- they require different tweaks.

You might also consider a post on the recording section of TGP to see if you can find out more about these partial-mix CDs. You may get some insights into exactly what's been done to them.I'll consider that.

Okay - first part. On the back of the XTL, near the output, there is a little pot you turn for output volume. Just above that is a switch, "amp" and "line". That's what I was talking about.
OK, got it now. Sorry, I got confused. I'll play with it, so far I've just left it on "line".

Second part - Post EQ - those were suggested settings that were mentioned on this thread by someone else, I can't take any credit for them. They work.
Alright- that actually makes me feel better!

Third part, set the "amp" switch to "comp" in Edit and use that +6db you see as a solo boost. I do not engage it unless I am soloing. I adjust it for the situation, but if I am in a loud 2 guitar rock band, I use 6db, if I am the only guitarist in a smaller setup (like a trio) I'll use 4db.
That's what I thought. I'd read about guys using the comp as a boost, but wasn't sure if they meant the compressor in the stompbox section or the post compressor. When you do this do you then step on the "amp" button to engage it?

If the PA sucks, then no matter what you do banging your head into the wall at home is going to somehow 'transcend' the PA. You cannot over come it; you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd. A shiny turd perhaps, but still a.... turd. I hate saying that, but you are setting yourself up to be highly underwhelmed.Yep. What I'm really worried about isn't how good or bad it sounds at practice, it's how it sounds out at a club with a bangin' PA. Our first show is local, and I think I'll have a lot of time during the day at the club to mess around with it before the show. But I want to be at the point where I'm just tweaking levels and EQs, not really messing with tones or sounds that much. At least that's where I'd like to be...

Check Andy Z's bundle, and Rob Tognoni ( http://www.robtognoni.com/line6.htm ); all these cats and epluribus and everyone else - approaches this differently. Check out www.customtone.com (http://www.customtone.com/) too. Spend time looking at and listening to how/why they set their patches like they do.
That's exactly what I did last night after I typed that last post. I actually got a bunch of patches from Andy Z, and a bunch from the actual Custom Tone site.

Remember that a "patch" is in essence constructing an entire 'rig' in real life, with amps, speaker cabs, pedals, the whole deal. If you look at my bundle, 5C is my main sound. In headphones or into a PA? It sucks. In my output preference, with my hands, with my guitar, into my Dragster/Atomic/ToneTools rig? BOOM. One of the best sounds, real - modeled or otherwise - that I've ever had.

It isn't as easy as dialing it into a stereo and making it sound okay. Just like building a full blown rig in real life - demoing amps, speakers, cabs, effects, doing EQ for the room, finding the tones for the song, etc - one single patch is the same way.I think that's why I am referrencing the POD 2.0 a lot- I rarely messed with different cabs and there's not a lot of other things to dial in. I'm using the same cab for eveything on the XTL, with mixed results. It's just that when I want a high gain JCM 800 it don't sound right with a blackface 2x12". I'm considering just using one amp and only the stompboxes for distorted sounds. Also, there's some parts where I'd like to not use the amp modleing (like a fuzz straight into the board sound or a heavily filtered, notched clean sound) but it's not agreeing with me. Again, I think it's a point where dialing it in on the post EQ could make or break it.

Epluribus asked about playing to tracks; to me you have to remove the mindset of specific amps used for specific purposes and just find what works. Just like real life, finding and crafting virtual patches (aka 'rigs') takes enormous time and effort. You are playing live, not on a record. So don't craft tones to match the recording so much as to match the live situation. You can't play with a 'recorded tone'; you need a live tone. They are very different animals. On a record, what you are hearing isn't what was coming out of the amp (nor any other instruments or voices). It's all EQ'd, mixed and massaged with surgical precision. Live work is a more raw and honest thing - you cannot play "pretty" unless you have the killer PA, complete and utter control of a professional team of sound engineers. Look at full blown professional tours and how much preproduction goes into getting it to sound right... and note how often it doesn't.You're right, and I'm trying. I'm trying to find the happy medium between the to. Believe me, these are all concepts I understand, but figuring out how to get there is the porblem.

But like I said, I did a lot more searching last night online, and I'm going to hit it hard this afternoon and am optimistic. Thanks again!

[Scott Peterson]

One quick question, if you like and 'get' POD 2.0, why not use it? XT is really deep and takes time and effort (worth it IMHO, but...) while POD 2.0 is much more "plug n' play".

[dewey decibel]

One quick question, if you like and 'get' POD 2.0, why not use it? XT is really deep and takes time and effort (worth it IMHO, but...) while POD 2.0 is much more "plug n' play".

I was begining to ask myself the same question. :rolleyes: It started out that I needed more effects than I currently had and was looking for mutli effects units to run into the POD 2.0. But everything they make now-a-days has modelling, except for the Boss ME-50, but that apparently has a silence between patches which I can't have. Plus the idea of having patches was appealing as I'm not the greatest tap dancer- I didn't want to step on 4 different buttons to change sounds if I could do it with just 1. I actually considered getting and older used MFX and a floorboard for the POD, but when I priced it out it was about the same as if I sold the 2.0 and bought an XTL or GT-8. I then considered an older rack unit but that's even more programming. Another issue is we're doing a lot of quick tours where we fly in and play a couple shows, then fly back home, so an all-in-one seemed smart.

Anyway, I'm starting to "get" the XTL now. Really. I just finished dialing in all the basic sounds, and then I set the levels according to a meter in a recording program I had. I have practice tomorrow and I'm hoping to go early and really iron this stuff out at volume (hopefully the new speakers will be there:worried).

One big problem I was having is I got a new guitar as well, and it wasn't doing what I wanted it to. Earlier today I swapped out the pots and caps, and now it's killin' -sounds like it should. I realized I was trying to EQ certaint things away, and that maybe those things could have been dealt with through a wiring change, and I was right. I'm actually pretty proud of myself... :cool::roll


But yeah, I think it's gonna' work out.

[Atmospheric]

Finally got a chance to gig with the PXTL and the Dragster. I thought It was a pretty subtle device just shedding with it, but through the in-ears it just majorly screwed with my sound so bad that I ripped it out halfway through sound check.

I'm someone who never ever plays totally clean. I like a little grit on my cleans to soften them up a bit and make them sound thicker. The main problem was that it made the neck PU on my strat brutally clean thru all ranges of the guitar volume pot. I still can't figure that one out. It really changed the way the guitar volume control worked in a really REALLY bad way for me. I guess I'm just too used to how that particular guitar sounds through my personal PXTL.

I will say that the sound guys were having a terrible time dialing everybody in so I'm sure that was part of it.

I dunno, I was pretty discouraged but thinking about it, I may give it another try. I just can't get over how different everything sounded through in-ears, after a year of getting things to sound decent.

I felt like it was two GIANT steps backward.

[dewey decibel]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon13.gif Not digging the Dragster


Oh oh..... :D



Actually I'm glad you chimmed in, for a second this thread was turning into RockinRob's daily blog... :p


OK, so I had practice Sunday with the old speakers- the clean tones were mediocre at best, the dirties awfull, muddy and wolfy. Tweaked some more at home, had practice last night with the new speakers (Mackie powered 15"s)....
-amazing!!!! :dude

I've got three or four patches that I still have to tweak, but for the most part I couldn't believe how good it sounded. And it fit in the mix very well. The ones I need to tweak are mostly a clean sound with no amp setting or the "tube preamp" setting, they just don't work -although the "tube pre" with a fuzz pedal is pretty good. The reverbs (I used chamber, but much wetter than you have it Scott as I'm playing to a pre recorded mix), delays, and most of the effects all fit well (you've really got to watch anything with an high filter).

I tweaked a lot through my stereo before the Sunday practice, but on the Monday tweaking session I basically just set things to where I thought they should be set, regardless of how they sounded in the living room, and used 1 amp setting for most patches, 3 different amps total. And they sound OK through the stereo, but through the board and in the mix- near perfect. I'm very pleased.

One question- I spent a lot of time setting levels to all the tunes at volume during practice. I've now transfered that bundle to Line 6 Edit- how to I tweak those tunes? If I draw one up from the saved bundle and tweak it when it comes to save it I can't find the bundle through the saving menu to put it in- it's not listed (none of the bundles are).

Anyway, thanks again! I don't think I could've got to this point without you guys!

:AOK:AOK:AOK

[Scott Peterson]

MLT: Wow - just a word on the Dragster; it isn't a tone thing and it doesn't effect your gain on the pickups. It isn't the root of the problem you were hearing. Honestly!

Rob - what I do is open the folder I save my bundles in; that folder is the one I keep open in the left window of Edit. I plug the POD into the computer; let it grab whatever I have in the POD and put it into Edit (it goes into the left window) and then I save the bundle with the buttons on the top of that window. I hope that makes sense, I am not around my setup right now.

[Atmospheric]

MLT: Wow - just a word on the Dragster; it isn't a tone thing and it doesn't effect your gain on the pickups. It isn't the root of the problem you were hearing. Honestly!

I think I figured out what was going on. I revisited the Dragster yesterday and realized that I had it set for about 85-90% correction. I think that was too much load on the pickups. The way I got there was setting it strictly by ear.

Yesterday, I set it to minimum correction and I could definitely tell a subtle positive difference in both tone and feel with it in, versus taking it out altogether. I was able to so some subtle tweaking with the drive and tone controls on certain patches and was most happy with the results. Can't wait for the next gig (two weeks) to be sure.

Scott, while you say the Dragster doesn't affect tone, I can definitely tell a difference in clarity, I think that's because a lot of the high end hash is gone (attentuated by the improved loading) and the PXTL more accurately processes the signal coming from the PUs, resulting in a more mid-focused (where all the guitar fundamentals live) sound.

A little tip for anyone following this thread... I am finding it VERY important to load the virtual tone stacks in these amp models from the bottom. What I mean by that is, start by with all the tone controls set neutral (12:00), then dial in as much bass as you can stand without adversely affecting what you are trying to accomplish, then dial in as much midrange as you can..., then treble... then presence, backing off previous controls as necessary (but as minimally as possible) if things get muddy or honky. I've found that this gives me MUCH fatter and more musical tones. YMMV.

14 months (and counting) and I still find subtle ways to get this rig sounding even better. Gotta love that!

[Scott Peterson]

MLT - cool with that assessment. Makes perfect sense (all of it, not just the Dragster thoughts).

The Dragster doesn't affect the tone so much as it allows your guitar's tone to actual BE there instead of the plinky tinny treble you get without it with lower output passive pickups. That we agree on! And loading it up all the way is indeed going to crush the tone; I rarely get over 1/2 way up.

Also - that is exactly the way I build my amp presets with any modeler but have never written about that. Great minds think alike! Good stuff.

It's interesting that I've owned the XT since they came out; first a bean, then the 'Live'; and now a bean (I have one XT Bean, and one XT Live). That's nearly.... 4 years? And I'm still learning the thing.

[vulcaniza P]

i was worried that i wasn't turing the dragster up too much. glad to see others also run it low.
i'm really liking how my first string is a lil more present when i'm playing melodies with chords in heavy traffic. a lil more clarity was what i was after.

[TieDyedDevil]

So... any more thoughts on opening up a Modeler forum on TGP?

[Scott Peterson]

So... any more thoughts on opening up a Modeler forum on TGP?

There are only a handful of threads rolling at any given time over modeling; it the traffic were there, I'd be open to it. As is? Not yet. IMHO.

[epluribus]

A little tip for anyone following this thread... I am finding it VERY important to load the virtual tone stacks in these amp models from the bottom. What I mean by that is, start by with all the tone controls set neutral (12:00), then dial in as much bass as you can stand without adversely affecting what you are trying to accomplish, then dial in as much midrange as you can..., then treble... then presence, backing off previous controls as necessary (but as minimally as possible) if things get muddy or honky. I've found that this gives me MUCH fatter and more musical tones. YMMV.

Isn't that interesting? I do the same thing with a Deluxe Reverb II, esp on the hi-gain channel. It's the secret to keeping the power supply in the game when you crank it.

--Ray

[TimH]

hey guys...quick question about the atomic amps....do they need to be loud to sound good? I'm playing in church and when not using in ears thinking the atomic might help me to hear better than our wedges - true? But if the atomic needs to be cranked to sound good that's a problem.

[Scott Peterson]

hey guys...quick question about the atomic amps....do they need to be loud to sound good? I'm playing in church and when not using in ears thinking the atomic might help me to hear better than our wedges - true? But if the atomic needs to be cranked to sound good that's a problem.

Cranked? No. Turned up, yes. They don't need to be stupid loud to sound right/good; but they do need some volume like ANY amp. They sound damn good down low, but need to push air to sound DAMN good if that makes any sense. They are amps and the main reason amps sound good is that they move air.

[TimH]

Scott...a related question - if you had your own monitor mix, exclusively for you, with a good sounding wedge, would you still use the atomic? Why?

[Scott Peterson]

Scott...a related question - if you had your own monitor mix, exclusively for you, with a good sounding wedge, would you still use the atomic? Why?

I've mentioned it on this thread and talked it to death over the years.

I tried - really tried - to make the powered monitor/POD thing work for me. Seems so simple, so elegant, so..... right, given the design goals and marketing of the modelers.

But it just feels wrong. Perhaps I am too grounded in old school 'guitar - amp - speaker' playing that to me, using the powered monitor just won't work. I have tried acoustic amps, keyboard amps, and powered monitors. Even stepping way up to the big JBL EON G2 15". That was certainly powerful enough and loud enough. It just felt 'wrong'.

With the Atomic, it feels 'right'. Controlling the whole rig at volume and not playing the guitar but playing your tone and timbre, playing the sound of your creation with the band is somehow more 'right' for me. It works better for my ear, my taste, my brain, my heart. It works. That's over simplifying it, but it works 'right' for me.

Other cats might be fine with just FOH rocking it, a good wedge kicking it or in-ears. I could settle for that, but it won't make me happy. The Atomic makes me happy.

[TimH]

Right on! Thanks for the info!

[dewey decibel]

Hey guys, had my first show with the XTL over the weekend. Really, I don't think I would have got there without everyone's help.

A couple thoughts- We were going to bring one of our powered Mackies as a guitar monitor, but we were running so late we left without it. This place we were playing has decent sound, and I'm going to have to rely on wedges on a short tour later this month, so I figured I'd try it here first. It was OK, but far from ideal. For one thing the "feel" was nasty, and I had the soundman scoop the mids in my wedge to clean it up. I was also worried there wasn't enough treble or "snap", but I went out past the mains during the sound check and it sounded OK out there, just bad on stage. If I had a way to globally bump the treble/upper mids on the spot I would've.

But yeah, playing through the monitors is far from ideal. For the most part I would just listen to the backing track and play to it without really listening to myself, so hopefully I wasn't off.

But if things keep progressing I'm definitely going to have to get a more "amp like" thing, like the Atomic or the Tech 21 Power Engine. The funny thing is I actually like the way the XTL feels through the Mackies at practice- different than a guitar amp for sure, but it's got some good points as well. But it didn't feel like that at all on stage, so a more "amp like" solution maybe in order. I'd consider taking a Mackie but one of them weighs as much as I do.




Rob - what I do is open the folder I save my bundles in; that folder is the one I keep open in the left window of Edit. I plug the POD into the computer; let it grab whatever I have in the POD and put it into Edit (it goes into the left window) and then I save the bundle with the buttons on the top of that window. I hope that makes sense, I am not around my setup right now.No, but I copied what you wrote down and I'll look at it later. Thanks again!

[TieDyedDevil]

Hey guys, had my first show with the XTL over the weekend.

...

This place we were playing has decent sound, and I'm going to have to rely on wedges on a short tour later this month, so I figured I'd try it here first. It was OK, but far from ideal. For one thing the "feel" was nasty, and I had the soundman scoop the mids in my wedge to clean it up. I was also worried there wasn't enough treble or "snap", but I went out past the mains during the sound check and it sounded OK out there, just bad on stage. If I had a way to globally bump the treble/upper mids on the spot I would've.

I wonder how much the monitor EQ affected what you were hearing. Sometimes the sound guy will "ring out" the monitors to mimize feedback from the mics. That could certainly color your sound.

I'm not saying that there's anything you could have done about it without a more extensive sound check and some special attention from the sound guy. But that might be a good reason to bring your own powered speaker in the future.


The funny thing is I actually like the way the XTL feels through the Mackies at practice- different than a guitar amp for sure, but it's got some good points as well. But it didn't feel like that at all on stage, so a more "amp like" solution maybe in order.


That's interesting... What's different between rehearsal and performance? Seems like the room and volume are the two obvious answers... anything else?

[dewey decibel]

I wonder how much the monitor EQ affected what you were hearing. Sometimes the sound guy will "ring out" the monitors to mimize feedback from the mics. That could certainly color your sound.

Yeah, it was a much different sound than what was coming through the mains, but I only got to hear the mains mix for about half a song.


I'm not saying that there's anything you could have done about it without a more extensive sound check and some special attention from the sound guy. But that might be a good reason to bring your own powered speaker in the future.Yes, I agree. One issue is we've got great speakers at the practice space now, but we're still using the same mixer that has an insane amount of high end. If got it so it sounds good at practice with a little high end rolled of at the mixer, but I was worried about how it would be through a club's system. But then again, that can happen in any situation no matter if you're using a modeller, mic'd up guitar amp, etc.

Right now it's looking like I'm going to rent a small powered speaker or keyboard amp for a monitor on this quick tour. So I guess I've got to figure out how to do it- line from XTL to Speaker to board, or one stereo side to board and one to speaker (although I'm nervous about that). Maybe I can get a cheap DI box that has more than one send- a powered speaker wants to see a balanced input, right? Maybe even mic up the powered speaker...

I'll have to search this thread to see what evryone else does.


That's interesting... What's different between rehearsal and performance? Seems like the room and volume are the two obvious answers... anything else?
I didn't explain myself clearly- we didn't being the Mackie to the show. So that's the main difference- going through a kick ass powered speaker I'm familiar with and going through a wedge monitor I'm not. Of course, the room and volume can come into play, but we've been practicing pretty damn loud.

[Scott Peterson]

Yeah, it was a much different sound than what was coming through the mains, but I only got to hear the mains mix for about half a song.


Yes, I agree. One issue is we've got great speakers at the practice space now, but we're still using the same mixer that has an insane amount of high end. If got it so it sounds good at practice with a little high end rolled of at the mixer, but I was worried about how it would be through a club's system. But then again, that can happen in any situation no matter if you're using a modeller, mic'd up guitar amp, etc.

Right now it's looking like I'm going to rent a small powered speaker or keyboard amp for a monitor on this quick tour. So I guess I've got to figure out how to do it- line from XTL to Speaker to board, or one stereo side to board and one to speaker (although I'm nervous about that). Maybe I can get a cheap DI box that has more than one send- a powered speaker wants to see a balanced input, right? Maybe even mic up the powered speaker...

I'll have to search this thread to see what evryone else does.


I didn't explain myself clearly- we didn't being the Mackie to the show. So that's the main difference- going through a kick ass powered speaker I'm familiar with and going through a wedge monitor I'm not. Of course, the room and volume can come into play, but we've been practicing pretty damn loud.

I'll save you some research here if you like.

I tried a lot of powered monitors to find the right one; at the time I was going for a mix of size/power/accurate sound that worked.

The best sounding and most durable was the JBL EON G2 15"; but it's very big and very heavy. Powerful as hell though. I ended up with and still own/use the smaller JBL EON G2 10" powered monitor. You give up the bass; but it is very accurate and small/light and works great.

I use this little rig for acoustic when I run my Variax 700 acoustic, into the XT Live; I don't go stereo with it, I run out of the mono out on the XT Live into my Radial JDI passive DI. I split it from the DI out to FOH and into the JBL for me. That way I can hear myself all I want ('more me!') and the sound guy can just send a little of me to the other monitors on stage as needed.

In my little acoustic rig, you don't even need the JDI DI; you can run out of the XLR out on the JBL to FOH if you like. I prefer the sound of the JDI to the naked sound from the XT Live and the JBL XLR-out. The Radial JDI has a transformer inside that makes it all sound very good.

[TieDyedDevil]

Right now it's looking like I'm going to rent a small powered speaker or keyboard amp for a monitor on this quick tour. So I guess I've got to figure out how to do it- line from XTL to Speaker to board, or one stereo side to board and one to speaker (although I'm nervous about that). Maybe I can get a cheap DI box that has more than one send- a powered speaker wants to see a balanced input, right? Maybe even mic up the powered speaker...


Most DIs have a through-connection from the input. You can run 1/4" from the modeler to the DI, then 1/4" again from the through-connection to your powered speaker. The XLR on the DI goes to the house, of course.

If you want to (and can) run stereo, ART and Behringer both make stereo DIs. No real advantage over carrying a pair of DIs except that you have one less piece to carry. The ART stereo DI is called the dPDB. It's built like a brick and has some good heft to it. I think I paid about $50 for mine. The Behringer is smaller, lighter, less expensive and doesn't really inspire confidence...

[Atmospheric]

First, move of the time I'm forced to use wedges, there's usually some global EQ lurking for all the monitor busses and often, there's extra "sizzle" added in for the vocalists. That just wrecks guitar tone.

Secondly, pay attention to input levels. Ask your soundmand to open up the input trim on your POD channles a bit wider than he normally would for any other instrument. A lot of guys set input trim by sight (i.e., they crank it down until the overload LED lights, then back it off). That's too tight for a modeler. IMHO, complex digital signals need LOTS of headroom; digital clipping can make the best tone sound ratty and boxy.

If going direct and using wedges, be sure to use AIR! The other PXTL settings are designed to interface with tube amps. They sound nastly if used direct.

In my experience, I've never gotten good guitar tone through wedges... horns (esp piezos) just wreck even the best guitar tone.

[dewey decibel]

Thanks for the help. I'm still running all this through my head, but my first thought is that our Mackies don't have a 1/4" input, just XLR. Do the Eons have a 1/4" input?

We're playing some big places so I'm sure they'll have DI's with parallel inputs, but I should get one just in case, so I'll probably go cheap. One other thought- anyone have an issue with phasing? I mean, do I need to get one that will reverse the phase if I'm going both to the board and to a powered speaker? I'm a little confused on that....

[Scott Peterson]

Thanks for the help. I'm still running all this through my head, but my first thought is that our Mackies don't have a 1/4" input, just XLR. Do the Eons have a 1/4" input?

We're playing some big places so I'm sure they'll have DI's with parallel inputs, but I should get one just in case, so I'll probably go cheap. One other thought- anyone have an issue with phasing? I mean, do I need to get one that will reverse the phase if I'm going both to the board and to a powered speaker? I'm a little confused on that....

JBL EON G2's have 1/4" and XLR inputs.

Any decent DI will have a phase reverse.

[TieDyedDevil]

Thanks for the help. I'm still running all this through my head, but my first thought is that our Mackies don't have a 1/4" input, just XLR.


Ah, but they do have an XLR thru-connector. You could chain modeler > DI > Mackie > house.

[dewey decibel]

JBL EON G2's have 1/4" and XLR inputs.

Any decent DI will have a phase reverse.


LOL- Decent, maybe. What about cheap? I'm looking at the Berhinger units. Is the phase reverse neccesary?

Ah, but they do have an XLR thru-connector. You could chain modeler > DI > Mackie > house.That's true. I need to check the manual just to make sure, but yeah, that should work.

[kovachian]

I hate to take the discussion back a few steps but I'd like some edumukation on buffers like the tonebone dragster. I read somewhere that they bring life back into the sound by loading the pickups as a tube amp would. Could someone with a modeller post some "before 'n' after" buffer clips? I'd really like to hear what they can do. Would it work well with an Atomic?

[stevieray]

Hey, there's a new powered monitor out there that meets Scott's size/power/accurate criteria and looks a WHOLE lot better than the EONs. It's the new QSC HPR122. Very versatile and great sounding powered speaker. I was blown away by these things when I demo'd them.

[Josh O]

Color me intrigued Mr. Peterson, color me intrigued!! How does the XT Live handle having pedals in front of it, i.e. wah? I really love my ZVex Wah Probe and wouldn't want to give that up.

[Scott Peterson]

Color me intrigued Mr. Peterson, color me intrigued!! How does the XT Live handle having pedals in front of it, i.e. wah? I really love my ZVex Wah Probe and wouldn't want to give that up.

It works fine. I used to run my Xotic RC-Boost out in front of the XTL and liked that a lot.

You can over load the front end of the XTL with OD pedals depending on the level, but that's easy enough to avoid.

[Josh O]

Having not tried one yet or thoroughly read through this entire thread, would you say that you can clean up distortion with the guitar volume knob? That was my biggest beef with POD 1.x and 2.x, both of which I owned over the years. I found by rolling the guitar volume back, it only softened the sound instead of trying to clean it up. Does the XTL do this on its own or by using it with the Atomic, will it do this?

[Scott Peterson]

Having not tried one yet or thoroughly read through this entire thread, would you say that you can clean up distortion with the guitar volume knob? That was my biggest beef with POD 1.x and 2.x, both of which I owned over the years. I found by rolling the guitar volume back, it only softened the sound instead of trying to clean it up. Does the XTL do this on its own or by using it with the Atomic, will it do this?

You need to read the thread. (lol!)

Yes you can clean up the distortion with the guitar volume knob. Do a search on "Dragster" and you'll find the answer you seek. :D

[Josh O]

You need to read the thread. (lol!)

Yes you can clean up the distortion with the guitar volume knob. Do a search on "Dragster" and you'll find the answer you seek. :D

in my best Astro voice:

Ruh-roh Elroy!!! :RoCkIn

[777]

Having not tried one yet or thoroughly read through this entire thread, would you say that you can clean up distortion with the guitar volume knob? That was my biggest beef with POD 1.x and 2.x, both of which I owned over the years. I found by rolling the guitar volume back, it only softened the sound instead of trying to clean it up. Does the XTL do this on its own or by using it with the Atomic, will it do this?
Yes, the PODxt Live will clean up when you turn down the guitar's volume knob.

[Atmospheric]

Executive Summary: There won't be a "Part Tres."

So it had been about three weeks since I had gigged. The time before that, I had ripped out my Dragster in frustratiuon, assuming that I had dialed in too much drag.

Well, same thing happened this time. I was just not digging how the "dragster-optimized" tones I had created were sitting in the mix. Yes, it does affect tone for one major reason - it majorly (even on the lowest setting) attentuates PU output. When I took the Dragster out of the circuit, output jumped more than 6db! I didn't measure it, but I know what 6db sounds like.

Anyway, I am going back to using the PXTL without the dragster. I guess I've spent a lot of time tweaking the treble bypass caps on all my guitars and know how that feels. The Dragster definitely does make things feel different and, for me, it ended up not being a good thing.

Live and learn.

Fortunately, I back up all my patches after every gig, so it was stipid simple to go back to the way I had things before the Dragster arrived.

[Scott Peterson]

MLT - seriously, something is wrong with the Dragster then. There is absolutely no attenuation and nothing on the level of -6db. That's enormous. Something is amiss.

[dk_ace]

Wow, I never thought I would consider modeling gear again, but Scott has just about done it. My life situation has changed quite a bit over the last few months, and I've been considering the POD since it would be good at home and at the ridiculous amount of DI gigs in this area. I also wanted to toy with home recording.

My hangup has always been the feel issue. This dragster device seems to take away all my excuses for not giving one a try. The days of me and my 150 watt Triple Rectifier are over (as I sadly traded it off a few weeks ago). Even the AC15 is too loud sometimes. My little Marshall is cool, but I really miss my boogie tones, and thought that this modeling gig might be the ticket to having all my favorite tones under my feet at any volume.

Scott.... lets say you had a modest budget (sub $1500), and wanted a good versatile rig that was portable, warm, and had plenty of tone and harmonic complexity. Knowing what you do now, would you buy one decent tube amp, or go with the dragster, POD, Atomic rig? I'm not asking you to make my decision for me. I just want to know if you would go this route again. My only fear is diving off into this thing, and still sounding digital at the end of the day. I've been spoiled to tubes, and if this thing doesn't feel and sound like them (or at least get so close that I can't tell the difference when I'm playing), it isn't the ticket.

So what do you think, Scott? For someone that doesn't have a fleet of boutique amps or the money to get them, will this rig get me pretty close to a lot of those sounds and feel like a good tube amp?

Thanks,
D

[Scott Peterson]

Wow, I never thought I would consider modeling gear again, but Scott has just about done it. My life situation has changed quite a bit over the last few months, and I've been considering the POD since it would be good at home and at the ridiculous amount of DI gigs in this area. I also wanted to toy with home recording.

My hangup has always been the feel issue. This dragster device seems to take away all my excuses for not giving one a try. The days of me and my 150 watt Triple Rectifier are over (as I sadly traded it off a few weeks ago). Even the AC15 is too loud sometimes. My little Marshall is cool, but I really miss my boogie tones, and thought that this modeling gig might be the ticket to having all my favorite tones under my feet at any volume.

Scott.... lets say you had a modest budget (sub $1500), and wanted a good versatile rig that was portable, warm, and had plenty of tone and harmonic complexity. Knowing what you do now, would you buy one decent tube amp, or go with the dragster, POD, Atomic rig? I'm not asking you to make my decision for me. I just want to know if you would go this route again. My only fear is diving off into this thing, and still sounding digital at the end of the day. I've been spoiled to tubes, and if this thing doesn't feel and sound like them (or at least get so close that I can't tell the difference when I'm playing), it isn't the ticket.

So what do you think, Scott? For someone that doesn't have a fleet of boutique amps or the money to get them, will this rig get me pretty close to a lot of those sounds and feel like a good tube amp?

Thanks,
D

D,

If you read the first post on this thread, you'll note that I am dealing with having to sell all my boutique gear (except my Melancon's - death before they leave me) and 'making it work".

I had a few gigs where all I had was my guitar, a cord and a Roland Cube 60. That's it. No footswitch, no pedals at all. It opened my ears and made me realize that sometimes all you need is what you need. The boutique stuff that gets bandied about so fluently here and across the web is "want" not "need".

You need a good amplified sound that fits the sonic picture you are helping to create. The tools are a means to an end, too many folks get caught up in the "means" - the gear - and not the end.... music.

That's all it's ever been about for me. I've had a lot of gear over the years; the best rack stuff, the best tube amps, the best pedals. All sorts of combinations. NOS tubes. Swapping custom wound pickups like sticks of gum, use them for a while and swap them out for another flavor. Fancy guitars; at one point I owned over 30 (12 of them PRS guitars). It's been a wonderful experience.

Financial reality has made life here very very very tight. I won't get into the details, but I am really back where I started in a way - just enough gear to make it work.

I play gigs, I record and I need setups that work in those situations. Need over want.

If I had $1500 for a rig, I'd pretty much do what I do right now. You cannot touch it for the sheer power of what I can do over the range I can do. Tremendous tube tones, power, punch, clarity, ring. I have silent tuning at my feet, tap tempo, any sound/tone I can dream up and I can fit into any situation I face. I can hang with guys with 100 watt Marshall heads and a Marshall 412. I can also play it with headphones and play while my wife and kids sleep.

Can this rig top any given boutique level rig, one-to-one, amp to amp? Probably not. But take any given Marshall, on its own. Sounds okay. Nasal, middy. Play with a band on stage? Different story. Same Marshall kills.

The thing with boutique amp is that they can sound fantastic alone or in a band. The rig I have now - Dragster, POD XT, Atomic and Tone Tools cab with a Line 6 FBV/Shortboard - cost under $1500 and kills on stage, with a band and can do a hell of a lot more than any given amp head (which is your whole $1500+ just for the boutique head (or at least a downpayment on one)) and I've got a easy to transport, quick setup/teardown, dependable and totally complete rig.

If I had the money would I be doing this? Maybe, maybe not. It be a part of the picture at the minimum, that I can honestly say. I would not have an issue playing it at any given show - big or small.

And the Atomic looks cool with the red bean in it. Chicks dig it. :D

[TieDyedDevil]

My only fear is diving off into this thing, and still sounding digital at the end of the day. I've been spoiled to tubes, and if this thing doesn't feel and sound like them (or at least get so close that I can't tell the difference when I'm playing), it isn't the ticket.



That's a very rational fear, IMO. I jumped to digital for the size and weight benefits. Yes it has to sound good, but "good enough" will do...

I was pleasantly surprised when I took my new rig (Boss GT-8 processor into Traynor K4 stereo keyboard amp) to a tone-fest this past weekend. Story here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=2322828 .

[62Tele]

Scott,

So after all of this experimentation, still like/use the Cube 60?

As for the real life stuff - been there more times than I can count. Never seen anybody succesfully buy tone or talent (despite the indsutry/net hype) and I've watched guys with REALLY expensive rigs get blown away by a kid with a Dano (and real talent). We're lucky SOB's by simply being able to play - rest is fluff.

[Scott Peterson]

jgm,

Yes, I do still play the Cube 60 here and there; and it's my backup amp to every gig. It's completely dependable and works great in any situation. Also takes pedals very well, small, and light. You have to love the thing.

[Webfoot]

Scott... would you choose the Pod XT and shortboard or just the Pod XT Live. If the former... why?

[Scott Peterson]

Scott... would you choose the Pod XT and shortboard or just the Pod XT Live. If the former... why?

Depends.

They are the same in every way - everything one does, the other does *EXCEPT* for the Variax connection on the XTL.

With the bean and shortboard paired with the Atomic, you have a better, neater setup. Power is handled by the Atomic to the Bean and you run one CAT5 cable out to the shortboard. The shortboard has a bigger display, better spaced switches and a switch for reverb (XTL does not).

I use the XTL more at home and when I need to take the Variax 700 Acoustic out I take it with the XTL. With the XTL you need access to a AC power tap for it out front. It's aggravating if nothing else on that issue.

So, with the Atomic? Bean + shortboard. For Variax connectivity? XTL.

[dk_ace]

Thanks Scott,

I've read the WHOLE thread, and while there was lots of great info, I sort of got lost after a while. I'm at a point in my college education that I don't really get to play in a band at the moment. I sit in with a few every now and then. I jam occasionally. It doesn't look like that's going to change for quite some time, so I traded my way into some new guitars (previously just had a PRS McCarty, since it is such a workhorse of a gigging guitar). The thing I haven't been able to figure out was what to do about my amp situation. The marshall is a little loud for practicing at home. The Vox is not as loud, but close. Lugging two heavy amps and a massive pedalboard around isn't a lot of fun when I'm just playing for the fun of it. What's worse, I'm really missing my boogie tones, and in the guitar trading I got a taste for Fender tones as well. It just doesn't make any sense for me to invest the money in two more amps right now, so I was considering modeling as a viable solution.

My fear was that I would go through all the trouble to program the thing and sound like a toy at the end of the day. You guys have the boutique experience and the ears to make me feel like this modeling rig could hold it's own as a tool that would fit my situation perfectly. It's been hard to find good info, because it's pretty rare that someone with a lot of good gear experience actually spends the time with a modeler to give it a good shot. Thanks for your help!

D

[Jarick]

Well I owned Pod XT variants for many years and I couldn't stop tweaking the damn thing. Really was annoying and I never ended up playing anything. The tones also didn't move me so much.

The Cube 60, I tried it out, and I really disliked it. I want to pick up a Dragster and test it out again, but the tones were pretty sterile and the thing was way too loud.

Valvetronix was a cool amp, I can't shake the feeling that the speakers are holding it back. I'm considering dumping my Fender for an AD 30 watt with a 10" Celestion in it. Gonna check it out when the guy selling it gets back in town.

For me, I need to really feel the synergy between the guitar and amp to enjoy playing. Lately I've just been playing my electrics unplugged because I can feel the guitar resonate and don't have to worry about running a huge tube amp at tiny volumes. I think if I had a 5 watt master volume tube amp I'd be thrilled, but I don't, so I'll be checking out some more modeling rigs, hopefully with a Dragster.

[dk_ace]

Scott,

I won't be buying multiple amps or cabs for the rig for quite some time (if ever), so I'm tied between the 18 and 50 watt Atomic configs. I'm afraid the 18 will be too bright and lack bottom end (I love my vox amps, but I want this rig to feel the void for the mesa tones that I miss). I'm afraid the 50 won't be as versatile as it won't work well at home volumes (not really bedroom, but definately lower than stage volume). You've had both, so what do you think? I notice you use the powerblock as your practice rig, but by the time I buy a PB and a cab I might as well have bought the atomic. Your $.02 would be appreciated.

Thanks,
D

[Scott Peterson]

I've owned the 18 watt and the 50 watt.

There is no contest, IMHO. The 50 watter wins, hands down.

The 50 can get as "quiet" as the 18; but the 18 lacks the headroom at any volume the 50 has. So your cleans will never get loud enough for use in a band with the 18, and the 50 can do everything the 18 does.

It's simply a no-brainer in my book. IMHO.

[dewey decibel]

Just got back from my quick tour, and overall I'm pretty happy with the results. I used a JBL Eon (I think with a 15") and I do feel the tweeter was a little intense. Some of my patches are a little bright, but I think a lot of it was the tweeter. I think I'm going to go with the Tech 21 Power Engine or Atomic route when I can- besides not having a tweeter they just look more guitar amp like, which is important to me (I'm shallow :rolleyes: ). I'm considering buying a full range speaker and an old tube PA head or maybe keyboard amp and building a cab for them.

One thing I don't like is the stomp buttons are a little too close together. There were a couple times where I didn't quite hit the button right- it can be difficult on a dark stage. I got into the habit of bending over at the begining of each tune to make sure I was on the right patch- it can be a little hard to see with the lights and fog and stuff.

My fear was that I would go through all the trouble to program the thing and sound like a toy at the end of the day. You guys have the boutique experience and the ears to make me feel like this modeling rig could hold it's own as a tool that would fit my situation perfectly. It's been hard to find good info, because it's pretty rare that someone with a lot of good gear experience actually spends the time with a modeler to give it a good shot. Thanks for your help!
After having a couple gigs under my belt with this setup, here's my thoughts on that. To the audience it won't sound like a toy unless you dial it in to sound like one. A lot of the tips given in this thread are very important- as in stay with the same cab setup for every patch, and stick with a handfull of amps. I use only one amp on a song- even if I want a Twin on the verse and a JCM 800 on the bridge I just use a Twin and then add a stomp box model. IMO, a lot of the "toy factor" comes from going from one completely different sound to another.

All the gigs I've done so far have had a decent PA, and little if any of my volume from my monitor/amp is getting to the audience. I had somebody sit in for a minute at sound check so I could run out to the FOH and check it out- sounded great. When the band kicks in it's very hard to tell the difference.

But as Scott has said (and basically the whole point of this thread) it won't feel like a tube amp. That's the main issue. Maybe the Dragster helps with that, I don't know. But at the same time, it doesn't feel bad, just different. It's much more upfront and reacts very quickly- imagine going from a 15" cab to a 4x10", just a much quicker response. I don't know if I'd want to use mine as a jamming tool, it's not really setup to plug in and play. I have the XT Live, maybe the bean would be better for that?

Anyway, thanks again guys for all your help.

[jaywalker]

You know, I've been through the same thing - but have the ability to A/B a lot of equipment literally. The closest thing I've ever got to satisfaction was being able to clone my AC30, Twin and orange amps via a magicstomp. I know it sounds stupid - putting a simulated signal into a real valve amp (two Laney VC30s in my case), but until you try it and tweak it at full volume you shouldn't knock it. I compared my twin to the magicstomp through the Laney and couldn't tell the difference. Please bear in mind that I use a lot of stompboxes before the magicstomp anyway, I would never use it as a stand alone unit.
But even with just the clean sound it was damn close. I sold my Pod XT because it couldn't do the things I do with my analogue board, and I've just got to hear a speaker working. I can smell a simulator from 2 contenents away!
Sometimes primitive experimentation brings about surprising results. Even the line 6 rep had to chuckle when I invited him to my studio. I had the XT, the twin, an ac30 and my monster board with the MS going through the Laney. He couldn't see any of the amps or setups. He chose the pedalboard/MS combination as being the originals, and the POD XT as being the MS. He was quite surprised at the results. Experimenting at full volume is not good for your hearing, but worth it.
I can't clone huge marshall/boogie rigs, but then again I don't want to. I'm more of a Britsound/vox type. One pedalboard, two combos and lots of surprised purists. (myself included)

[hotraman]

FWIW...
I've had my Atomic 112-50 since Feb 2007 and its has yet to disappoint.
Scott, thanks for providing great info.
This was the 1st time I ever bought a amp without playing it first.

[morphine]

Ok, new member posting here. I'm a starting guitarist (Epi LP Studio + crappy el-cheapo Behringer "amp") who's read a metric ton of stuff about amps, effects, etc. I've found this thread on Google, IIRC, and read it all up, it's probably one of the top 10 places on the 'net to read about real people using modelling gear.

I was already pretty much set on getting a Pod XT Live and an Atomic to go with it in a few months' time (two half-blind purchases, I'm nuts). I'll buy the Metal Pack for the XTL as I'm a sucker for fat, heavy rythm sounds and everything there points to the XTL hi-gain amp models (unless somone has better ideas). The stuff on this thread only made me become even more decided to do so.

However, I have a bit of a dillema here. I intend to use the Atomic for rehearsals as the Behringer can I have was useless and became even more so after I tried playing with a drummer. You all know what happens when you have a 15W crappy amp next to drums, hey, I'm a beginner! :messedup (to its defense, when mic'd and going through the PA it manages to sound minimally passable). Now, the question: AR has the 112-50 and the 212-50 (I'm not considering the 18W since that just wouldn't be enough), and the prices are similar enough, 650€ for the 112 and 750€ for the 212. Which one to get? I'm afraid the 112 will not be enough to play next to a drummer, yet the 212 looks a lot heavier and cumbersome. Please input with opinions.

And by the way, my thanks go out to everyone who posted in this thread, especially its creator Scott. All the info here is just plain fabulous :)

[yZe]

Scott, just ran across this post

Very insightful

Thanks

[hotraman]

Ok, new member posting here. I'm a starting guitarist (Epi LP Studio + crappy el-cheapo Behringer "amp") who's read a metric ton of stuff about amps, effects, etc. I've found this thread on Google, IIRC, and read it all up, it's probably one of the top 10 places on the 'net to read about real people using modelling gear.

I was already pretty much set on getting a Pod XT Live and an Atomic to go with it in a few months' time (two half-blind purchases, I'm nuts). I'll buy the Metal Pack for the XTL as I'm a sucker for fat, heavy rythm sounds and everything there points to the XTL hi-gain amp models (unless somone has better ideas). The stuff on this thread only made me become even more decided to do so.

However, I have a bit of a dillema here. I intend to use the Atomic for rehearsals as the Behringer can I have was useless and became even more so after I tried playing with a drummer. You all know what happens when you have a 15W crappy amp next to drums, hey, I'm a beginner! :messedup (to its defense, when mic'd and going through the PA it manages to sound minimally passable). Now, the question: AR has the 112-50 and the 212-50 (I'm not considering the 18W since that just wouldn't be enough), and the prices are similar enough, 650€ for the 112 and 750€ for the 212. Which one to get? I'm afraid the 112 will not be enough to play next to a drummer, yet the 212 looks a lot heavier and cumbersome. Please input with opinions.

And by the way, my thanks go out to everyone who posted in this thread, especially its creator Scott. All the info here is just plain fabulous :)
FWIW;
I run my 112-50 at a 1/4 level setting or 10:00 ( if you can imagine the face of a clock). My modeler ( TLSE) is all the way up.
This amp has more than enough power & volume.
Get the 112-50 and save your back!

[Mercury25]

Great info--thanks to all who contributed.

[dayn]

I am going to be using the new VG-99 into an Atomic Reactor with a Parker Fly Artist equipped with RMC pickups (for the guitar modelling and alternate tunings in the VG-99!)

Wondering if anyone had had any success plugging into an Atomic with just an overdrive pedal?

[Mercury25]

Bump for more comments--

[daddycam]

well, one question.

It's been 6 months since Scott started this thread.

So I ask......Scott are you still using the same setup you mention in your opening thread?

I doubt it.

I guess you haven't seen this thread yet. ;)

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=267882

[Scott Peterson]

What Daddycam said.

There is no one way, no right way, no perfect rig for any one person let alone for everyone. It's a journey; and if you take a few minutes to review the "Show your #1 Rig" thread; you'll note (hopefully) that the range and utter variance of rigs that folks own/use is exceptionally different.

On this thread, throughout, I've been very careful to note that a) here's my situation with gear (money); and b) here's how I made it work for what I need to do. And my conclusion, personally, was that it was good. Not great; but good.

The Fractal Audio puts me squarely back in the land of "great" tone; but it is not a $300 off the shelf of your neighborhood Guitar Center piece of gear either.

Remember, you need to match your rig to your gig. And I need to do that the same as anyone; remember that the range of what I am/have played in the past 3-4 years since I moved on from the Shiva/Rake/VHT amps I used (and still would without issue) cannot be completely done correctly with one rig, or type of rig.

Why guys feel the need, on a gear forum for musicans to talk shop no less, to get on my back for changing rigs and bothering to share the journey I am on (with the time invested to add context to what I talk about) is beyond me. Thanks for hanging at the Gear Page; err I meant the 'choose your one rig and stick to it or else Page'. :D

Rock whatever you like for gear, it's all good. I've never truly cared what anyone thought of my choices; I just try to share the experience because to me that's what this place is about. I've never been a bandwagon driver, though I've been accused of it many times.

Let the first guy to try to play a funk gig with a Recto throw the first stone; it's simply the right tools for the job; if the rig don't fit the gig, then you won't be called back. It's just that simple.

[daddycam]

I'm actually thinking about going back the other way to just amp and pedals since I really only use a couple of amp models on the XTL for the most part anyway. I've come to rely on some of the basic effects in the XTL that I'd need to replace which is a bit daunting when you start to add up the cost. Things like volume pedal, wah, phaser, delay with tap tempo... The XTL is just easy for me, but I think I'm ready for a change. We'll see.

[sanvandur]

My setup is the following:
Carvin C66 guitar
Atomic 18W 112
POD XT
Radial Dragster

I've tried and tried the Stack Power Amp and Combo Power Amp output modes on my PODXT throught the Atomic and everything clean sounds great. Whenever the slightest bit of breakup starts, I get the horrible buzzing sound. I simply cannot get rid of it. So, high gain, low gain, and in between. It all buzzes, ever with the Radial Dragster.
Am I missing something? I'm just not getting the sound everyone raves about.
PLEASE HELP!

[morphine]

1) Check your levels on the Pod XT's output section (there's a little knob there). With my stuff, it's usually set fairly low, with the output type set to "Line", which is OK if the knob, once again, is fairly low.
2) Do you see the "CLIP" message popping up in the PodXT when you play? If you do, then the problem is with your patch, turn the patch's volume down.

[sanvandur]

1. Output is fairly low.
2. No clipping, not even with presets.

[morphine]

I'm kind of at a loss with that. I've mine set up as I described with the ComboPowerAmp mode (as expected).

Could you post a small soundclip describing the problem? I'm having trouble understand what buzzing you refer to.

[sanvandur]

I'm kind of at a loss with that. I've mine set up as I described with the ComboPowerAmp mode (as expected).

Could you post a small soundclip describing the problem? I'm having trouble understand what buzzing you refer to.

I wish I could, but I'm just a bedroom player and have no way to record my amp. But I assure you that the buzzing is not some obscured undertone. It's pretty harsh and in your (my) face. And this happens regardless of volume. There just needs to be the tiniest bit of distortion, and I'm bathed in the buzz from hell. Fortunately, I've now solved the problem by using a Radial Dragster between my guitar and my amp, plus an MXR 10 band EQ pedal in the effects loop. So I now run my PODXT in "direct out" (I've never had the buzzing problem in direct out) and have a preset EQ curve on the MXR to tweak the tone coming out of the PODXT to my liking. My setup now sounds amazing.
Now my question is if this buzzing only happens with the Line 6 PODs? Or do other modelers have a similar buzzing issue?

[morphine]

I think the problem might lie with your preset(s). When you have that "buzzing", did you have a cab selected in your preset?

It works like this:

Studio/direct mode = cab sims on, mic sims on
Combo poweramp = cab sims on, mic sims OFF (what I use). Cabinets can still be disabled by the individual presets.

[sanvandur]

I'll break it down like this:
When cab sims are *off* in any output mode and the sound has any degree of distortion, there is buzz. For clean sounds, cab sims off sounds great. So for any sound that has high gain, distortion, overdrive, etc., the cab sims must be *on* to avoid buzzing.

[voorhiessa]

Somebody may have mentioned it, but there's a great Christian artist named Lincoln Brewster, who has an amazing studio, but live, plays the Line 6 X3 direct to the board and it sounds great! I think he runs like a BD2 and SD1 in front of it, but that's it.

I've always felt that if one of these units can get you say, 85%, of the way there and make life easier/cheaper/simpler on you......GO FOR IT!!

[fr8_trane]

The Lincoln Brewster patches are pretty good. He mainly uses the Plexi Variac patch with the mids and treble fairly high and the gain usually below noon. He then bumps the mids and cuts the treble with the post EQ.

http://benvesco.com/tonemonster/gearbox/2008/pod-lincoln-brewster-tone-study/

That formula is a good rule of thumb. You almost always need less gain than you think, you probably need more mids and less bass than you think (Nu Metal rectifier dudes I'm especially talking to you) and ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS roll of the treble using the post EQ to tame the fizz on distorted patches.

I still don't know how he (or anyone else) deals with the very noticeable sub harmonic overtones on the Vari model (among many others :huh:dunno).

[voorhiessa]

That formula is a good rule of thumb. You almost always need less gain than you think, you probably need more mids and less bass than you think (Nu Metal rectifier dudes I'm especially talking to you) and ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS roll of the treble using the post EQ to tame the fizz on distorted patches.



I learned that about a year ago and I consider that the best piece of gear advice I ever learned.

People crank the highs and lows and scoop the mids, forgeting that often the highs/lows will get lost in the mix and the mids are what is going to cut through.

[teddy trevino]

Hi Scott,

Thanks a million for the info on Pod xt set up and Atomic amps.... I have followed all that you prescribed with great results running my Pod xt live direct to digital mixer.

Question: About Atomic 112-50. if you run Podxt live to the amp (lets say volume 10 on Pod xt live) and line out from the amp to the mixer, does the master amp control knob on the back of the amp serve as a monitor/volume control level? In other words, is the volume level from the Pod xt independent from the master volume knob level on the amp. I am looking to be able to have lower amp volume levels on stage to use only for monitoring but maximizing volume settings on Pod xt.

Also, when using Pod xt live, does it make a difference where you plug into the amp? Input where docking statioin is located verses effects return jack as mentioned in manual.

By the way, I do not own an Atomic... looking to own one some day.

Thanks a million.

Ted

[Scott Peterson]

Hi Scott,

Thanks a million for the info on Pod xt set up and Atomic amps.... I have followed all that you prescribed with great results running my Pod xt live direct to digital mixer.

Question: About Atomic 112-50. if you run Podxt live to the amp (lets say volume 10 on Pod xt live) and line out from the amp to the mixer, does the master amp control knob on the back of the amp serve as a monitor/volume control level? In other words, is the volume level from the Pod xt independent from the master volume knob level on the amp. I am looking to be able to have lower amp volume levels on stage to use only for monitoring but maximizing volume settings on Pod xt.

Also, when using Pod xt live, does it make a difference where you plug into the amp? Input where docking statioin is located verses effects return jack as mentioned in manual.

By the way, I do not own an Atomic... looking to own one some day.

Thanks a million.

Ted

Ted,

Whew; this was 3 long years ago. By spring 2007, I was into the Axe-FX and have not looked back.

I used to turn up the Atomic all the way and use the volume output on the POD to control my output volume. It does not matter where you plug into the Atomic Reactor - it's just a clean (tube) power amp into a ported speaker. Nothing fancy. Works well for its designed purpose.

Good luck man!

[teddy trevino]

Scott, thank you for your reply..... I really appreciate your time.

Ted

[Rock Johnson]

Gotta love thread resurrection!

[pir8matt]

Well, I though I'd chime in here. I've been reading this thread because I've been enlisted to join in with a cover band that does a lot of different material and styles.

I've had some friends that tried using them for these purposes before, but they tried to make patches for every single song, with a pedal for each part of the song, etc and got burned out on it.

All I wanted was a couple of usable cleans, a usable dirty sound, and a high gain tone. I liked the idea of being able to have a single drop-n-go board with silent tuning, delay, wah, chorus, etc.

But I didn't want to run into the usual issues with disappearing in the mix when I hit dirty tones, so I took all the advice I could from this thread.

I did the combo poweramp destination setting, used the Line 6 2x12 'air' setting for each patch, adjusted the EQ on each individual amp, and remapped the AMP button and set up the patches for boost using the compressor.

I'm using a little fender deluxe as an amp, so I dialed in the most neutral tone I could at relatively low volume and worked on getting my tones set up.

The only thing I didn't do was employ a solution like the radial dragster. I primarily use a humbucker equipped guitar, so I didn't think I'd need to pre-load the pickups like you would with a single coil.

But anyway, I got to the gig, a busy 20-somethings bar with a smallish stage. The first couple of songs I used the cleans (Vox TB and Fawn AC30) and they sounded pretty good, but as soon as I hit my 'gain' patch (Variax Plexi), boom - I disappeared.

It was a challenge to stay in the mix during any of the songs that I wanted to use dirt tones for. At this point I'm probably just going to go back to a few stomp pedals and call it a day. Its frustrating, because I really WANT it to be able to work, but I'm at a loss now.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears...of course, the OP has moved on to an Axe-FX, so maybe I should give that a shot instead. ;-)

[Gtrman100]

Well, I though I'd chime in here. I've been reading this thread because I've been enlisted to join in with a cover band that does a lot of different material and styles.

I've had some friends that tried using them for these purposes before, but they tried to make patches for every single song, with a pedal for each part of the song, etc and got burned out on it.

All I wanted was a couple of usable cleans, a usable dirty sound, and a high gain tone. I liked the idea of being able to have a single drop-n-go board with silent tuning, delay, wah, chorus, etc.

But I didn't want to run into the usual issues with disappearing in the mix when I hit dirty tones, so I took all the advice I could from this thread.

I did the combo poweramp destination setting, used the Line 6 2x12 'air' setting for each patch, adjusted the EQ on each individual amp, and remapped the AMP button and set up the patches for boost using the compressor.

I'm using a little fender deluxe as an amp, so I dialed in the most neutral tone I could at relatively low volume and worked on getting my tones set up.

The only thing I didn't do was employ a solution like the radial dragster. I primarily use a humbucker equipped guitar, so I didn't think I'd need to pre-load the pickups like you would with a single coil.

But anyway, I got to the gig, a busy 20-somethings bar with a smallish stage. The first couple of songs I used the cleans (Vox TB and Fawn AC30) and they sounded pretty good, but as soon as I hit my 'gain' patch (Variax Plexi), boom - I disappeared.

It was a challenge to stay in the mix during any of the songs that I wanted to use dirt tones for. At this point I'm probably just going to go back to a few stomp pedals and call it a day. Its frustrating, because I really WANT it to be able to work, but I'm at a loss now.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears...of course, the OP has moved on to an Axe-FX, so maybe I should give that a shot instead. ;-)
I've gigged extensively with my Pod X3l and I can tell you from experience that you need to adjust the volume of your patches in rehearsal or at the gig. Because the units compress more than guitar>amp, the higher gain patches need to be much louder than clean to cut through cpmpared to analog pedals. If you are adjusting patch levels at home, your clean patches will sound fine, but especially high gain patches will get lost in the mix live if they are only slightly louder than your clean patches.

One thing I've done which seems to work for me is to use a crunchy rhythm tone with the band and use that as my baseline volume. Then, I adjust lead and clean tones off that level. Leads usually need a large boost to cut through, and clean levels need to be lower. I also use the volume pedal to adjust song to song, because the band tends to drift louder and softer depending on the song. Hope this helps...

[morphine]

From my personal experience, I've seen that picking the Line6 2x12 cab might not be the best choice. Given that EQing is pretty limited in the Pod line (only 4 bands, and 2 of those are shelves), I had the best results mixing and matching virtual cabinets.

[pir8matt]

I've gigged extensively with my Pod X3l and I can tell you from experience that you need to adjust the volume of your patches in rehearsal or at the gig. Because the units compress more than guitar>amp, the higher gain patches need to be much louder than clean to cut through cpmpared to analog pedals. If you are adjusting patch levels at home, your clean patches will sound fine, but especially high gain patches will get lost in the mix live if they are only slightly louder than your clean patches.

One thing I've done which seems to work for me is to use a crunchy rhythm tone with the band and use that as my baseline volume. Then, I adjust lead and clean tones off that level. Leads usually need a large boost to cut through, and clean levels need to be lower. I also use the volume pedal to adjust song to song, because the band tends to drift louder and softer depending on the song. Hope this helps...

It does, thanks!

[pir8matt]

From my personal experience, I've seen that picking the Line6 2x12 cab might not be the best choice. Given that EQing is pretty limited in the Pod line (only 4 bands, and 2 of those are shelves), I had the best results mixing and matching virtual cabinets.

It just seemed really universally endorsed in the course of this thread. I had set them all to 'no cab' but switched them. Maybe I'll try it differently. Got another gig tonight.

Unfortunately, our practices take place at indoor volume. We go pods to studio monitors and our drummer uses v-drums. It doesn't make for a great way to figure out whats going to work live. :-P