It's the release of the finger off the note that slow many down

[tonefingers]

Everyone practices applying pressure to the note.

Little is mentioned about the other half of this, the release.

A lot of people are slow at this but don't know it.

Any good practice ideas for this? :puh

[ES350]

practice clean descending lines...with a 'nome.

[wcin]

When I was playing classical guitar we used rasgueado practice to build the muscles for the opposite direction of the fingers, not sure if it helped me or not, but theoretically it makes sense, at any rate a 4 finger continuous rasgueado in triplets is a neat parlor trick.

Put the ball/wrist (not sure if thats the correct terminology) of your hand on your thigh and flick the fingers outward off your leg (hard to describe), find a flamenco player and ask them. Once you can do that, try the four fingers continually moving at a regular beat, then try triplets with the 4 fingers to build muscle control.

A word of caution: this is a very small and sensitive muscle group when doing any exercise for the muscles that bring the fingers back only do it for a minute a day or less, DON'T GO ANY FURTHER IF THERE IS ANY STIFFNESS, and gradually increase the time. If you over do it the top of your hand will be extremely sore for a week so you won't be playing much (I've done it).

[dkaplowitz]

Charlie Fechter, Guitarmanship: GIT circa 1987.

Can a brother get some love?

[Dajbro]

You may find some useful information/tips here:

http://www.guitarprinciples.com/

David

[tonefingers]

When I was playing classical guitar we used rasgueado practice to build the muscles for the opposite direction of the fingers, not sure if it helped me or not, but theoretically it makes sense, at any rate a 4 finger continuous rasgueado in triplets is a neat parlor trick.

Put the ball/wrist (not sure if thats the correct terminology) of your hand on your thigh and flick the fingers outward off your leg (hard to describe), find a flamenco player and ask them. Once you can do that, try the four fingers continually moving at a regular beat, then try triplets with the 4 fingers to build muscle control.

A word of caution: this is a very small and sensitive muscle group when doing any exercise for the muscles that bring the fingers back only do it for a minute a day or less, DON'T GO ANY FURTHER IF THERE IS ANY STIFFNESS, and gradually increase the time. If you over do it the top of your hand will be extremely sore for a week so you won't be playing much (I've done it).

Isn't rasgueado a right hand technique?

I was talking about the left hand, the fretting hand.

[KRosser]

What if I'm trying to slow down?

[KRosser]

still, this is music (that we're generally trying to discuss, 'round here..... ¿i think?

I've heard rumors....

To address the original post - yes, the release of the note is worth some conscious attention at some point. I just bristle a tiny bit, as a teacher, when the rational for an activity or exercise is framed entirely in terms of getting faster and not for its potential 'musical' utility (recognizing of course that speed can be used musically as well....anyway...you get my point...I think?....)

[wcin]

Isn't rasgueado a right hand technique?

I was talking about the left hand, the fretting hand.




The exercise came from a Master Class taught by Stephen Rak that I attended about 15 years ago. He used the exercise for both right & left hands to increase the power or strength in the release motion of both hands. He believed that it benefitted both his right and left hand technique.

My experience is that because I am playing everyday I do not feel that I could quantify the benefit to the left hand.

In theory the benefit to your left hand is: by exercising the extensors (muscles that straighten out the digits) you should be able to get your fingers off the fretboard faster. And, also with muscle development comes control, control of the postion of your fingers over the fretboard should be greater, this is beneficial because alot of left hand speed comes from conserving movement.

Rasgueado, is a function of the wrist and the extensors, in this exercise the wrist is isolated by placing the base of your palm on your leg, and so, works the extensors only. Again, if you try it do so sparingly I can't emphasize how much it hurt when I overdid it.

[Serious Poo]

Guitar Player magazine had a long article with Robert Fripp on this exact topic. Don't remember the issue, but it was mid-late 80's. I'll post what I remember from it, somebody please correct me if I've gotten any of this wrong.

As I recall, Robert had an exercise where he would play arpeggios and scales, but focus on making sure he didn't lift his fingers too far away from the fretboard. I believe his goal was to keep his fingertips no further away than 1/4" from the fingerboard at all times, even when they weren't fretting anything. He stressed not using any energy lifting the fingers themselves, but that they should naturally come off as a result of fretting another note. I believe he said that it's a natural tendency for people to let their fingers fly too far away from the fingerboard, so he practiced keeping them close. He said it helped him to be faster & more accurate.

[wcin]

What if I'm trying to slow down?

and, i most definitely AM slooooowing down, to my own satisfaction.

of course, the release of the note is as important as the initial attack;
still, this is music (that we're generally trying to discuss, 'round here..... ¿i think?), not the mechanical-construction portion of rocket science.

dt / spltrcl


Sorry, my inner geek got loose again, back boy back... (not meant to be sarcastic, more of a self criticism), but, with all due respect to the masters, the question was asked and I thought I'd pass on some knowledge from another truely great player.

[russ6100]

I remember a friend of mine who attended GIT in the mid '80's was telling me about something he learned there that was specifially about that, something called supportive fingering....

Here's an explanation:

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/43/1

[dkaplowitz]

I think a new shred genre should be created where a player is valued by how quickly he removes his fingers from the fingerboard.

[lhallam]

What if I'm trying to slow down?

Still should use best technique?

The consumate musician should be able to play fast and slow, don't you agree?

I never hear people obsessing over speedy violinists or sax players.

[KRosser]

Still should use best technique?

The consumate musician should be able to play fast and slow, don't you agree?

I never hear people obsessing over speedy violinists or sax players.

FWIW, this was a flippant response. I clarified it into a somewhat serious one a few more posts down. I'd rather discuss that one if you want.

But, to answer your second question - no. The consumate musician (whatever that means) should be able to play music, I would think.

FWIW, you've never heard me obsess over speedy violinists or sax players, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[KRosser]

I think a new shred genre should be created where a player is valued by how quickly he removes his fingers from the fingerboard.

It always struck me as funny that 'shred' is mentioned as a genre - the only genre I can think of that is determined by technical characteristics instead of musical or socio-geographic ones.

I'm not expecting anyone to 'explain' shred to me, and I'm not saying I have a problem with it, really. I just think it's funny. 'Peculiar' funny....not 'ha-ha' funny.

[lhallam]

FWIW, this was a flippant response. I clarified it into a somewhat serious one a few more posts down. I'd rather discuss that one if you want.

But, to answer your second question - no. The consumate musician (whatever that means) should be able to play music, I would think.

FWIW, you've never heard me obsess over speedy violinists or sax players, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.


Missed your later post sorry. I read it and get your point. Actually got your point from the first post.

I think in terms of the training of a classical musician such as a violinist and the material she is expected to play. Some lento some allegro. I see no reason why the guitarist should not aspire to do the same.

Not really addressing you per se, concerning speedy sax, just the world at large.

I'm not clear why it seems to be an issue with folks if a gtrist plays fast and/or wants to, yet no one questions masters of other said instruments who play fast.

[CarlH]

Rapid and reating hammer-ons and pull-offs.

[KRosser]

I'm not clear why it seems to be an issue with folks if a gtrist plays fast and/or wants to, yet no one questions masters of other said instruments who play fast.

I don't either. (But - FWIW - many sax players and violinists, in my experience, don't like wanky show-offs either) Some music calls for very difficult execution and/or very fast tempi. I prefer to work on the technical demands of the music I play as I encounter it, not necessarily stockpile technique to wait for a place to uncoil it. Just my own trip.

Again, the idea of 'minimizing the effort' of left hand finger release is definitely worth checking out, but when I did/do it, it's always in the context of a direct musical application.

[esmiralha]

It always struck me as funny that 'shred' is mentioned as a genre - the only genre I can think of that is determined by technical characteristics instead of musical or socio-geographic ones.

I'm not expecting anyone to 'explain' shred to me, and I'm not saying I have a problem with it, really. I just think it's funny. 'Peculiar' funny....not 'ha-ha' funny.

Perhaps your definition of shred is limited to technical characteristics.

[wcin]

and, fwiw:
in perspective, i appreciated your post.
dt / spltrcl

It's worth alot, your music, articles and posts to various forums have inpired me to take new directions in music. And, got me into an electrix repeater which has been a great benefit to my playing and helped the creative process.

[lhallam]

I don't either. (But - FWIW - many sax players and violinists, in my experience, don't like wanky show-offs either) Some music calls for very difficult execution and/or very fast tempi. I prefer to work on the technical demands of the music I play as I encounter it, not necessarily stockpile technique to wait for a place to uncoil it. Just my own trip.

Thanks for the clarity. My motto is; "serve the music first and everything will take care of itself". I think we're on the same page in that regard.

[dkaplowitz]

It always struck me as funny that 'shred' is mentioned as a genre - the only genre I can think of that is determined by technical characteristics instead of musical or socio-geographic ones.
I personally don't find it the peculiar kind of funny, at least not because it's thought of as a genre. What differentiates it from Emo or Grunge or even Reggae? It's a form a music that has a few common characteristics (a sub-genre of metal with a focus on extreme virtuosity in the guitar playing and sometimes the arrangements --not that you needed or wanted an explanation). Tell me how that's different from Prog, or Fusion or the other genres I mentioned. Some people like it and some don't, some even find it silly. But it's still a genre of musical entertainment.