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Chris Scott
02-13-2007, 11:49 AM
Hey Folks,

I have a Twin Reverb that’s giving me problems, and my somewhat limited experience is really showing on this one.

Amp is a MV silver-face 100watt Twin Reverb. I have back-dated it to an AB763-style circuit, eliminating the MV circuit, changing back to true bias adjust, as well as a few tonestack tweaks, all of which has greatly improved the sonics on this unit- the other guitarist in my band claims it’s better sounding than it has any right to be, and it does indeed sound good. What is giving me fits is the reverb circuit. It has always had a very weak and “boingy” sounding reverb. I’ve replaced the tubes, pan, and transformer, checked all components in the circuit, all ending with the same symptom. And now, after recently removing the M/V circuit, I have been having oscillation problems when I turn up the reverb control, as well as when I turn the speed control for the vibrato- the vibrato control gets a classic “motorboat” sound that speeds up when you dial it up (duh!), while the reverb, in addition to the oscillation, also adds a sound vaguely reminiscent of a very slight envelope follower kind of effect.

The voltage check throughout the entire amp is within spec, save for the vibrato tube. Pin 1 plate will not register a voltage unless the .02 cap in the vibrato chain is removed. All other pins on this tube show within-spec voltages, and the 220K resistor between the oscillator and pin 1, like damn near every component in this amp, has been checked, and then replaced, to no avail.

One question I have at this point is with the power supply, as it is the section just before this area that is not functioning. The latest schematic I have for a Twin Reverb is the AA270 circuit, which shows the same value resistors tied into the three 20uF filter caps as what is in this amp- 10K 1watt between “D” and “C”, and a 2.2K 1watt between “C” and “B”. The AB763 shows these to be 4K7 and 1K respectively- could this be my problem? I would simply sub these components, but I was told these are only to control the voltage of the PT, and have nothing to do with the problem I’m having. The other question is with the phase inverter section- should I be showing the – voltage figure off the bias pot when the unit is on standby as well as in play mode? (remember, I’ve changed this amp to true bias adjust specs) This amp does, and since I’m such a comparative doofuss with this stuff, I don’t know if it’s in order or not.

Thank you in advance for any help you can send in my direction- I’ve tried to avoid asking for help with this as I’m aware of how the only way to learn is to just muddle through it, but I’ve already burned up so much time with this one, I’m ready to throw in the towel. Thanks, Chris

unklmickey
02-13-2007, 12:09 PM
The voltage check throughout the entire amp is within spec, save for the vibrato tube. Pin 1 plate will not register a voltage unless the .02 cap in the vibrato chain is removed. ...


???????

doctorx
02-13-2007, 05:51 PM
Go here and ask around, these guys can help you. (http://music-electronics-forum.com/)

Chris Scott
02-13-2007, 09:40 PM
???????

Boy, something more would be cool.

Is that a "what an idiot- that's impossible" string of question marks, or a "Jeez, that's really weird" one?

FWIW, it is as I described- pin 1, V5 (plate-right?!) shows no steady voltage, at least according to my trusty Snap-On DMM, unless I lift one leg of the .02 cap connected to the 220K resistor.

I could very well be the Supreme F---up of all Time, but if that were the case, I'd likely be dead by now.

..any ideas?

Chris Scott
02-13-2007, 09:41 PM
Go here and ask around, these guys can help you. (http://music-electronics-forum.com/)

Thank you. I'll check it out.

BLC
02-13-2007, 09:46 PM
If you are doing a BF mod to a SF amp...do it all....including the filter cap section / resistors. No, I dont really think that is your oscillation problem tho. Have yoou checked the 25/25 caps and the reisitors with them. These can go way out of spec and cause motorboating and "woofy" sounding amp. Check back over the AB763 schematic or diagram and make sure you have all the AB763 parts and not a mixture between the 2 series.

unklmickey
02-13-2007, 09:58 PM
Boy, something more would be cool.

Is that a "what an idiot- that's impossible" string of question marks, or a "Jeez, that's really weird" one?...


yeah Chris, i guess that would be confusing.

i mostly meant it as "i don't know what to make of this."

when you originally stated "no voltage". that sort of implies zero volts.

but then i looked at the print and even if the cap was shorted, that wouldn't happen.

then i think to myself, well maybe he means the voltage fluctuates.........but this is the oscillator for the tremolo, of course the voltage is going to be constantly fluctuating.


FWIW, Comic Sans MS is hard to read, so i didn't even get past the tremolo issue.

but +1 on BLC's suggestion of doing it all.

unless you are certain, adapting something "half-way" could cause problems.

Chris Scott
02-13-2007, 11:10 PM
If you are doing a BF mod to a SF amp...do it all....including the filter cap section / resistors. No, I dont really think that is your oscillation problem tho. Have yoou checked the 25/25 caps and the reisitors with them. These can go way out of spec and cause motorboating and "woofy" sounding amp. Check back over the AB763 schematic or diagram and make sure you have all the AB763 parts and not a mixture between the 2 series.

ALL electrolytics were changed.

Resistors checked out, many replaced.

I even changed a couple of the 25/50's a few times- they're cheap enough.

I've just ordered the supply rail resistors, let's see what happens. I've replaced nigh-on everything else....

Blue Strat
02-14-2007, 07:40 AM
Not sure about the trem problem, but it's not unusual not to be able to read that voltage (if it's the one I'm thinking of) because it's not DC.

Reverb:
Is the tank in a reverb bag? If not, it needs to be. Add some additional padding on top of it. The tanks will oscillate if not completely padded and free from vibration. Do you have the proper 12AT7 in V3? Have you blackfaced the the reverb send circuit (2.2K resistor with 25uf cap in parallel in the cathode of V3)?

brad347
02-14-2007, 09:11 AM
"ticking" vibrato is normal with strong 12AX7s, try a weaker tube (seriously) if that's what you mean when you say it's "motorboating."

Blue Strat
02-14-2007, 09:53 AM
... also Google "ticking tremolo" for a common fix to tremolo ticking.

Jim Salman
02-14-2007, 02:26 PM
Oscillation (often manifesting as a high-pitched "squeak") when the reverb control is turned up usually indicates a bad 25uF bypass cap in the shared V4 (reverb return stage + 3rd gain stage) cathode circuit. It bypasses an 820 ohm resistor. I know you said you changed all the electrolytics, but you should definitely double-check this one. Maybe it was bad "right out of the box" or was damaged during soldering.

Chris Scott
02-14-2007, 10:25 PM
Mike, Jim and everyone else- I'm done for today, but I'll let ya know what happens after looking into your ideas- Thanks!

Chris

rooster
02-16-2007, 08:40 AM
One more thing - the 3 .02uF caps in your vibrato circuit crap out fairly easily. I used to have a Fender tech note bulletin that detailed this issue. This is because the legs are stretched tightly across their eyelets, and they get pulled out. The "roach" that controls the vibrato may also be not functioning correctly. I believe it's a bulb with an LDR heat shrunk to it. You can buy a new one of those from AES as well, I believe.

Just shots in the dark.

rooster.