PDA

View Full Version : found: vintage 1959 Gibson Les Paul - BURST


gregovertone
02-26-2007, 06:38 PM
i was in a lesson tonight, and my student made mention of a buddy of his and his vintage guitar.

he got it from his dad, back in the day. an ol' 1959 les paul.

'unfortunately, it's not a gold top, it's more of a sunburst'.

needless to say, my jaw dropped.

i guess the owner isn't much of a guitar player, but plucks on it every once in a while.

i explained what the guitar was, a bit more in depth, and i will be helping them take the next few steps to insure the guitar is checked out, maintained, and insured.
=====================

1. what is there to look out for with a vintage sunburst? i want all opinions, not just my own :)


2. what is the rough value.....i realize it depends on the condish....but i remember there being one on ebay not too far back, and i don't remember what it went for.

=======================

waiting for pics and serial #.

Gavin
02-26-2007, 06:50 PM
'unfortunately, it's not a gold top, it's more of a sunburst'.




I guess that would depend on if you want a $100,000.00 guitar or a $250,000.00 guitar. Maybe its just me but I'd rather have the 250k sunburst.:cool:

gregovertone
02-26-2007, 06:55 PM
ha. i know. i chuckled too. i explained the value difference.



i realize the story sounds a bit made up.....but it's true .

morlll
02-26-2007, 06:59 PM
I've seen one go for 275. That would make a few mortgage payments

Thwap
02-26-2007, 07:00 PM
I'm afraid I'd have to offer to give the friend lessons, then tell him that POS guitar is what's holding him back.

Here, take mine, and I'll just throw that one away for ya.

Then phone him from the bahamas to cancel our next few lessons.

PinoyBoy
02-26-2007, 07:34 PM
gregovertone

unfortunately, you have been misinformed. original 59 bursts have been found to be not as great as people think they are. worthless. toneless. crap. i'll do your friend a favor -- because i'm a nice guy -- and rid him of his misery. i mean, that thing is just going to use up closet space right? i'll buy you two dinner. at the restaurant of your choice. good enough?

kidding aside, given it's value, why not take a trip to gruhn (spelling?) guitars and get them to do the full appraisal. that way you guys get peace of mind on what you're dealing with, and if your friend wants to sell it, you'll have an official appraisal to back-up whatever price you want to get. you might get a lot of pointers from the guys in the forum, but those opinions won't mean anything when the time comes to cash in on the guitar.

amazing how even in today's world, you can still find these treasures. so i guess i shouldn't give up the "get-rich-by-hoping-to-luck-out-in-a-garage-sale" scheme right?

1959burst
02-26-2007, 07:36 PM
i hear this all the time and never once did it happen to be the real thing!!!!!!!!:NUTS

David Collins
02-26-2007, 07:45 PM
The last '59 burst we had at Elderly's while I was there sold for just under 200k, and that was a few years ago. The market has gone up considerably since then.

Drive it straight to someplace like Elderly's or Gruhn's. Have it appraised and get an insurance rider right away if he's not going to sell it. Don't pull anything apart to try to evaluate it yourself. If a pickup ring screw is rusted and breaks, that's probably a $150.00 screw.

It is a story just about as common as the Strad in a grandmother's attic, and about often as authentic. Still, I have seen people toss a $100,000+ Martin up on the counter, just "thinkin' 'bout gittin' a new set of strings on this box", so it can happen.

At least start by sending some photos to some appraisers to find out the likeliness of it being authentic and worth the trip to have it appraised.

serial
02-26-2007, 09:41 PM
It is a story just about as common as the Strad in a grandmother's attic, and about often as authentic.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard the same story or a variation of it, I could pay cash (in nickels) for a real Burst. If a guitar turns out to be a Gibson even, it's likely a Marauder, although in high school, our bass player kept talking about his "Dad's old Les Paul". In 1982, we knew enough about Bursts, etc, but he brought over a stripped 61 LP Jr. It was still cool, so we used it until the drummer snapped the headstock off while moving some stuff around. Good thing I didn't get it then or it might have been spray bombed canary yellow!

Big Bob
02-26-2007, 09:49 PM
Hey, maybe its true maybe not but vintage guitars are all over the place. I know of two 50s LesPauls on my street alone and a few strats!

A few years ago I did a gig at a guys Hootnanny in his barn. He had a Blackguard out there that he didn't even keep in a case.

Keep your eyes open.......:eek:

japhy
02-26-2007, 10:09 PM
They are out there . Not every owner knows about collecting or values.
10 years ago I bought a 1961 Tele for $100.00 at a garage sale , and they threw in a '65 Champ that needed a speaker . At the time , I didn't know what the value of the guitar was . I just knew that I got a good buy on a good guitar .

tim gueguen
02-26-2007, 10:25 PM
Of course everyone here is assuming its a Standard, and not a sunburst Les Paul Jr.

WahmBoomAh
02-26-2007, 11:44 PM
of course you realize you now have a moral obligation to keep us posted on this

todd richman
02-27-2007, 06:37 AM
A Burst in pretty much any decent condition is gonna get around $300K+ One is on gbase now for over $400K. I would talk to Gruhn and also go to the Les Paul Forum and PM Tom Whittrock who goes by TW. He is a collector and Burst guru who will provide very trustworthy info and also give you suggestions on who else to discuss this with.

reddgeetarzan
02-27-2007, 06:55 AM
There was an article in a local paper here about a burst that went mysteriously "missing" after the death of its owner. I had heard that it was being "repaired" by a friend (some friend!), and it was "stolen" after this guy passed.......the family had no idea about the guitar's value until after the theft.......er, I mean disappearance.
They ARE still out there!!!

trisonic
02-27-2007, 07:31 AM
One on every street?
Probably not. Between mid '58 and 1960 only about 1,500 Les Paul Models (later called Standards) were made in a Sunburst finish - and that's probably on the high side.

Best, Pete.

gregovertone
02-27-2007, 08:14 AM
1. i will definitely keep everyone posted.

2. entirely possible it's a Jr, and not a standard....but keep the fingers crossed!

daddyo
02-27-2007, 08:18 AM
Even a Jr is worth a fair wack of cash. But I notice these claims turn up every month on some forum and I've never seen a guitar materialize.

The Golden Boy
02-27-2007, 08:35 AM
Even a Jr is worth a fair wack of cash. But I notice these claims turn up every month on some forum and I've never seen a guitar materialize.

There was just one on the LPF a couple of months ago- Either a Junior or Melody Maker- but a cool guitar with a cool little back story.

Boogie92801
02-27-2007, 08:55 AM
I once bought a 1955 tele in the tweed case with the matching champ amp that it had the original 1958 bill of sale in the strings; oh for $125.00.

I did not offer to buy it they gauy came in and said "would you give me $125.00 for this" ans I said "yes". I thought it was a 58 for about a year untill I opened it up and it had a peice of tape that said Gloria 8-25-55 inside tha cavity.

shallbe
02-27-2007, 09:02 AM
About 10 years ago, I was in a guitar store when guy walks in with a molded plastic guitar case. He says his Dad is sick with cancer and needs to sell his old guitar for medical expenses. He said the original case was so old they threw it away and got this new one, and knew this old guitar was worth more than a new guitar (a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing).

He opened the case and there was an excellent shape REAL 57 goldtop. Slight greening at the forearm area and very little finish checking. We were floored, and he went in the back to meet with the store owner, because his Dad still wanted a guitar to plink around on. He left with no deal. A few days later, the store owner gave the guy a new black custom and $5000. The store owner sold the guitar via the internet to a guy in Japan for a significant profit.

pepperco
02-27-2007, 11:05 AM
bet you 5 bucks its a melody maker......:rolleyes:

SkydogFan81
02-27-2007, 11:23 AM
A Burst in pretty much any decent condition is gonna get around $300K+ One is on gbase now for over $400K. I would talk to Gruhn and also go to the Les Paul Forum and PM Tom Whittrock who goes by TW. He is a collector and Burst guru who will provide very trustworthy info and also give you suggestions on who else to discuss this with.


...+1

plaintop
02-27-2007, 11:46 AM
Wow, a real '59 'burst discovered!

I'd always entertain something like this, you really never know until you're holding it in your hands.

IPlayHamers
02-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Hey, maybe its true maybe not but vintage guitars are all over the place. I know of two 50s LesPauls on my street alone and a few strats!

A few years ago I did a gig at a guys Hootnanny in his barn. He had a Blackguard out there that he didn't even keep in a case.

Keep your eyes open.......:eek:

What street do you live on? I wanna move there.........:drool

roknfnrol
02-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I held a real '59 once, for a few minutes.

plaintop
02-27-2007, 04:29 PM
I've played a few 'bursts and they are great instruments. Some are really amazing sounding, and looking. They are not rare by any means, but they have been hoarded for the most part. I think someone mentioned 10-15% are still "undiscovered." Is this one? Probably not, but personally I think any "'59 Sunburst" guitar is worth investigating.

trisonic
02-27-2007, 05:15 PM
I've played a few 'bursts and they are great instruments. Some are really amazing sounding, and looking. They are not rare by any means, but they have been hoarded for the most part. I think someone mentioned 10-15% are still "undiscovered." Is this one? Probably not, but personally I think any "'59 Sunburst" guitar is worth investigating.

Depends on what you mean by rare. To me 1,500 or less (and that is from '58 to the end of production in 1960) - only 643 were actually made in 1959 makes it a pretty rare thing. They are all over the World too.

Best, Pete.

musicman1
02-27-2007, 05:53 PM
Or contact Stan Jay at the Mandolin Brothers, Staten Island NY. They broker these extreme high end guitars all the time and are considered experts same as George Gruhn or Norm Harris out in LA.

JDJ
02-27-2007, 06:41 PM
I've met a fella who has at least one LP for each representative year in the 50s. He's been collecting for years.

PAF
02-27-2007, 07:47 PM
:munch:

surfshack
02-27-2007, 09:05 PM
:munch +1........ha-ha..

Brock
02-27-2007, 10:12 PM
I got this junior on a tip. Didnt pay too much either.http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s155/taelynn_01/DSC01428.jpg

plaintop
02-28-2007, 06:09 AM
Depends on what you mean by rare. To me 1,500 or less (and that is from '58 to the end of production in 1960) - only 643 were actually made in 1959 makes it a pretty rare thing. They are all over the World too.

Best, Pete.

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the word. I’ve seen other vintage guitar enthusiasts use the word rare to describe one-off guitars or guitars with details that were uncommon. Or maybe a very low production run, i.e. (50) or less.

A limited supply and high demand doesn’t equal rare. IMO

brad347
02-28-2007, 07:26 AM
well, I think demand does factor in. Would 50 space shuttles be rare? That's a lot of space shuttles if you ask me.

Remember that rare can also mean "unusually good or desirable."

trisonic
02-28-2007, 07:28 AM
True.
In comparison the Les Paul Jnr. single cutaway amounted to 11,300 units (or nearly ten times as many as 'bursts), double cutaway 7,900. SG/Les Paul Jnr's amount to 6,100 and SG Jnr's 7,500.

Frankly having just checked the figures I'm surprised by the amount of SG/Les Paul Jnr's at 6,100 - I really like these variants and am now surprised I have not seen them more often.....

Best, Pete.

Rambo66
02-28-2007, 09:12 AM
A few days later, the store owner gave the guy a new black custom and $5000. The store owner sold the guitar via the internet to a guy in Japan for a significant profit.

That is one of the lowest, sleaziest moves I have ever heard. True the owner of the store had every right to do the deal he did, but the guy needed to sell the guitar for medical expenses.........that's lame.

scottlr
02-28-2007, 09:23 AM
True.
In comparison the Les Paul Jnr. single cutaway amounted to 11,300 units (or nearly ten times as many as 'bursts), double cutaway 7,900. SG/Les Paul Jnr's amount to 6,100 and SG Jnr's 7,500.

Frankly having just checked the figures I'm surprised by the amount of SG/Les Paul Jnr's at 6,100 - I really like these variants and am now surprised I have not seen them more often.....

Best, Pete.

I'd love to get an SG Jr with the small guard! I see 1-2 on ebay almost all the time, in various condition, as well as a few on gbase. If only I had the cash to get one, they are certainly around.

no1yuno
02-28-2007, 09:34 AM
Back in the 70's I lived in south Texas and a friend told me he had a friend that wanted to sell a Les Paul that had been sitting in his closet since he got it for his high school graduation in '58. I went by to check it out and it was a '59 burst in amazing shape with everything intact including the mint case. He did some research and found out that it was valued at $2500 at that time so I borrowed the money to buy it knowing I could turn it for a quick profit. About 3 weeks later I sold it to Eric Johnson for $3500 (quick profit!). He sold it a few years later for $6000 to get some Dumble gear. We are both kicking our butts for letting that one go. Who knew?? It's the guitar that Eric played on Cristopher Cross' song "Minstrel Gigolo" (the solo).

scottlr
02-28-2007, 09:40 AM
I picked this '61 up last year for 800.00.

At one point, someone had put a humbucker in the middle position. It was repaired, and done pretty nicely. The rest of the finish has faded around the repair. I love this guitar. It certainly isn't mint, but what a player!

http://www.members.aol.com/dimasicabs/LPJr01.jpg

Yea, I have seen a few like that with mods. One had a HB in the neck position, so a repair wouldn't be quite as drastic as yours, but it was a tad over $1000 and I haven't saved that much yet. But I see them in decent shape for $2500-4500 pretty regularly. I'd certainly consider a player condition one.

Filter428
02-28-2007, 09:52 AM
There's a '59 at this place for sale...

http://www.rumbleseatmusic.com/

surfshack
02-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Back in the 70's I lived in south Texas and a friend told me he had a friend that wanted to sell a Les Paul that had been sitting in his closet since he got it for his high school graduation in '58. I went by to check it out and it was a '59 burst in amazing shape with everything intact including the mint case. He did some research and found out that it was valued at $2500 at that time so I borrowed the money to buy it knowing I could turn it for a quick profit. About 3 weeks later I sold it to Eric Johnson for $3500 (quick profit!). He sold it a few years later for $6000 to get some Dumble gear. We are both kicking our butts for letting that one go. Who knew?? It's the guitar that Eric played on Cristopher Cross' song "Minstrel Gigolo" (the solo).


you're kidding me!!!! damn! oh well , huh...:puh............the '70's huh? , well that was a long time ago...the '70's nowadays seems like the '50's!

trisonic
02-28-2007, 10:13 AM
I'd love to get an SG Jr with the small guard! I see 1-2 on ebay almost all the time, in various condition, as well as a few on gbase. If only I had the cash to get one, they are certainly around.

Yeah, the SG/Les Paul Jnr (still had the Les Paul on the headstock) had the fatter neck - I think Gibson revised the neck dimensions in 1963 so the regular SG Jnr up to then is more desirable (to me) too.

I'm still kicking myself over a SG/Les Paul Jnr I didn't buy from David Sheppards in Greensboro in the early nineties at $650.00! It had neck issues though and I thought I could find a better example....D'oh!

Best, Pete.

gregovertone
02-28-2007, 11:04 AM
new info:

The serial number is 9 1097.

It is imprinted in black ink on the back of the headstock.
The word "Gibson" has the "G" and the "N" below the "IBSO" on the front of the headstock. The "B" and the "O" are open at the top.
It has two pickups and four gold knobs. The pick guard is whitish/yellowish.

The neck has crown inlays. (It looks just like the picture of the LP standard you sent me, with the exception that the switch on his guitar is white, where the one on the picture looks "orangish").

The case was manufactured by "Stone Case Company." It has five latches, a metal handle (if there were leather on the handle, there is no more) and a pink plush interior. It is tan leather.
It does not have a flat top. He looked this up and he believes this is a "California Girl" case.

We thought it might be a 1969, but his dad purchased it sometime before he passed away in August of 1968.

Lastly, he also has a GIbson Hummingbird acoustic with the serial number 863248. Let me know what you think. JAK

The Golden Boy
02-28-2007, 11:08 AM
Yeah, the SG/Les Paul Jnr (still had the Les Paul on the headstock) had the fatter neck - I think Gibson revised the neck dimensions in 1963 so the regular SG Jnr up to then is more desirable (to me) too.


My old '60 had a really thin, almost Jackson like neck. It sounded awesome, but that neck...

Luke
02-28-2007, 11:18 AM
That is one of the lowest, sleaziest moves I have ever heard. True the owner of the store had every right to do the deal he did, but the guy needed to sell the guitar for medical expenses.........that's lame.

How is it any different than selling your house for under market value to prevent bankruptcy? It would appear they willingly accepted the terms. Obviously if the store sold the guitar via the internet, the seller could have gone to the library and did some online research himself.

The Golden Boy
02-28-2007, 11:34 AM
How is it any different than selling your house for under market value to prevent bankruptcy? It would appear they willingly accepted the terms. Obviously if the store sold the guitar via the internet, the seller could have gone to the library and did some online research himself.

Whether the seller got what they wanted out of the deal, it's still unethical.

As Fat Albert would say:

"That's not a cool thing to do."

dayn
02-28-2007, 11:43 AM
9 1097 serial number appears to make it truly a '59. Wow.

GuitarsFromMars
02-28-2007, 11:49 AM
new info:

The serial number is 9 1097.

It is imprinted in black ink on the back of the headstock.
The word "Gibson" has the "G" and the "N" below the "IBSO" on the front of the headstock. The "B" and the "O" are open at the top.
It has two pickups and four gold knobs. The pick guard is whitish/yellowish.

The neck has crown inlays. (It looks just like the picture of the LP standard you sent me, with the exception that the switch on his guitar is white, where the one on the picture looks "orangish").

The case was manufactured by "Stone Case Company." It has five latches, a metal handle (if there were leather on the handle, there is no more) and a pink plush interior. It is tan leather.
It does not have a flat top. He looked this up and he believes this is a "California Girl" case.

We thought it might be a 1969, but his dad purchased it sometime before he passed away in August of 1968.

Lastly, he also has a GIbson Hummingbird acoustic with the serial number 863248. Let me know what you think. JAK

I would be taking pictures of those guitars and sending them to a nationally accepted company like Gruhn's in Nashville-appraisal fee is about 35$.Do NOT leave them anywhere overnight.If the LP is clean,you will find the value to be in the neighborhhood of (comps on Gbase were~300K$)several hundred thousand dollars.That guitar needs to be appraised and insured as quickly as possible.There are many people who will want to buy it/steal it.PM if you need help or additional info....

TwoTubMan
02-28-2007, 11:50 AM
9 1097 serial number appears to make it truly a '59. Wow.
Also, the number is in the right series. Here's 9-1098.

http://www.burstserial.com/gallery/main.php?cmd=album&var1=1959%2F9+1098/&var2=2

frank62
02-28-2007, 11:51 AM
Great story with a happy ending! Proof this does in fact still happen from time to time.

Tycho
02-28-2007, 11:55 AM
About 3 weeks later I sold it to Eric Johnson for $3500 (quick profit!). He sold it a few years later for $6000 to get some Dumble gear. We are both kicking our butts for letting that one go. Who knew??

It's stories like that that make me afraid to ever sell anything.

brad347
02-28-2007, 12:23 PM
WOW. Awesome! keep us posted! What good fortune for those people!! They oughtta give you a cut haha.

trisonic
02-28-2007, 12:30 PM
Congratulations, sounds like the real deal. Insured, secured, appraised next.
Do post pics though.

Best, Pete.

plaintop
02-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Great! You have to get us pics...

shallbe
02-28-2007, 01:14 PM
That is one of the lowest, sleaziest moves I have ever heard. True the owner of the store had every right to do the deal he did, but the guy needed to sell the guitar for medical expenses.........that's lame.


I thought it was lame too, and it really changed my trust factor with the owner. I can't remember the last time I bought anything significant there.

gkoelling
02-28-2007, 01:22 PM
What a great story! Congratulations to your friend. I'd also like to see some pics.

Rock Johnson
02-28-2007, 01:24 PM
What an amazing story. Hope springs eternal.

John Hurtt
02-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Call me a sceptic....but I'm just not buying it.

gregovertone
02-28-2007, 01:52 PM
just got an email

Hi,

I talked to the owner this morning. Sounds like a ’59. He’s sending photos.

Thanks,

Walter Carter
Gruhn Guitars

Crazyquilt
02-28-2007, 02:02 PM
Time to start negotiating for your finder's fee. :D

Seriously -- that's a great story, and I hope it continues to play out well. Just remember: as interesting as the story is, this thread is useless without pictures!

CocoTone
02-28-2007, 02:12 PM
Serious question. How many '59 bursts were really made in '59?? How many knockoffs are there?? Just askin'.:cool:

CT.

TNJ
02-28-2007, 02:13 PM
I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about this!
Somebody needs to write a book, about this specific thing.
"The case of the Lost 'Burst (and the beauty within)".

I'd buy a copy in a heartbeat.

My story about '59 Les Paul 'bursts involves a local mom/pop music store (Witmer/McNease) in my town...which, incidentally is about 40 miles from Kalamazoo, MI. Mac is retired now, but back in the day he spent alot of time at the Gibson plant, got to know Ted McCarty, meet Les Paul ,etc.
As a young salesman/store owner, he had some savvy that through his career made him friends and enemies. He was always nice to me, though.
He told me some stories about a '59 Les Paul that he pulled off the line with hang tags, OHSC, etc. He told me that he took more than one of those home with him at the time, to keep them for his own collection.
He said that he never had a clue as to what the vintage guitar market was going to finally mushroom into...especially wrt the '59 Bursts.
Anyway, he was approached many times over the years with big $$$ offers for his pristine '59 bursts...I think he had two of them.
He also had a '54 Strat, numerous early and mid 50's Tele's, and some old Epiphone jazzboxes. He also had a barrel full of PAF humbuckers and old pots/caps from his early days of tinkering on guitars at his shop.
He didnt tell me this, but I heard through the grapevine that Greg Bayless, of Makenmusic, offered him a small fortune for his bursts and the PAF's. I guess it pays off to have a little collector in you, doesnt it!
What a great time to be alive, though. To be able to just drive up to the Gibson plant on an afternoon, chew the fat with a certain Mr. McCarty, and check out the latest solid and semihollow body gems being turned out there on a routine basis. To be able to see this building full of luthiers and artisans (including Seth Lover, who also worked there) make history.
Boggles the mind, doesnt it?

S.
j

gregovertone
02-28-2007, 02:18 PM
i keep getting emails :D

i can assure you that pics will be posted when i get them.

it is a great story, and this is really as good as it gets when your a gear whore like all of us. the real deal, 59' burst.

i hope this puts a hint of curiosity in the minds of the naysayers in the future.

what if.....

plaintop
02-28-2007, 02:26 PM
Well, I think we'd still need to see pics of the guitar. It could be a fake. Like I said before, until it is in your hands, you really don't know what it is.


As we've discovered over on the LPF, there were a few 'bursts made in Chicago. :munch


Clear pics are extremely helpful.

MrMo
02-28-2007, 02:40 PM
Here's the one that sold at Elderly a couple years back. As I recall, it took about a week to sell.
GIBSON LES PAUL STANDARD (1959) (30U-12188) - Elderly Instruments (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/30U-12188.htm)

rockinlespaul
02-28-2007, 04:28 PM
Here's the one that sold at Elderly a couple years back. As I recall, it took about a week to sell.
GIBSON LES PAUL STANDARD (1959) (30U-12188) - Elderly Instruments (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/30U-12188.htm)

Yup, I remember that one.

David Collins
02-28-2007, 04:31 PM
I remember it too - I was working in the repair shop when it came in. :)

WordMan
03-01-2007, 06:18 AM
Thank you for keeping us posted!

A quick scan of this thread seemed to indicate that no one had alerted the Les Paul Forum about this thread and apparently-real burst. Those guys know their stuff, so I posted a thread there with a link to this thread...

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125502

Stay focused on a few key users over there, like Joe Ganzler, CDaughtry, kthesheep, j45 and the leader of the pack, TW59 - they really know their stuff; some other folks, too - but there will be some folks who will get feisty if they don't see pics, and then when they do see pics, only comment on something that doesn't look quite right to them. If you can deal with that type of stuff - just let it slide, frankly - you can learn a TON.

drbob1
03-01-2007, 07:46 AM
59 Bursts are the most variable of guitars, price-wise. There's one owned by Christopher Cross that's been for sale forever at $120k-it has some significant work done (partial refin etc). On the other end, a nearly unfaded 59 with really nice figure has pulled an offer of over $500k at least a couple of times I'm aware of. It depends so much on the finish, the provenance and the figure in the wood.

As to the story of the found guitar, it really is critical to get it appraised. There're some fakes out there good enough to fool even well educated dealers (although there's probably only 5 or 6 guys in the world that can do work at that level and I don't think any of them are currently building copies). That said, 2 or 3 times a year a burst "comes out of the woodwork" and it's always time for celebration for those of us who love these old things.

As to the dealer paying $5k for a Les Paul-they're scum. And those actions will come home to roost eventually-treat everyone well and more than one person will come in with an old guitar to get some help; treat them badly and you may only see a few. Dave at Dave's Guitar Shop in LaCrosse has built a rep for treating people fairly, at least once or twice a year a really nice (like the 58 Custom in near mint shape from September this year) guitar will walk in the door.

Notes
03-01-2007, 08:00 AM
There're some fakes out there good enough to fool even well educated dealers (although there's probably only 5 or 6 guys in the world that can do work at that level...

And can we know who those extremely skilful people are?

Thanks.

WordMan
03-01-2007, 08:03 AM
And can we know who those extremely skilful people are?

Thanks.


Hang out on the Les Paul forum - including the Backstage area - and their names get mentioned regularly - mostly for legit repair/restoration work. Dave Johnson, Terry Mueller, Chris Mirabella, Scott Lentz (the latter two are no longer doing this type of work, I believe...)

AtomEve
03-01-2007, 12:03 PM
I need one of those "this thread is worthless without pics" emoticons!!!


PICS! :RoCkIn :BEER

POA
03-01-2007, 12:17 PM
I need one of those "this thread is worthless without pics" emoticons!!!


PICS! :RoCkIn :BEER


You want burst pics! Here are some cool pictures of an old burst I found on photobucket the other week, posted it in another thread already but we can see it once again… :drool

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/1959_Les_Paul/

Cheers POA :BEER

AtomEve
03-01-2007, 12:20 PM
You want burst pics! Here are some cool pictures of an old burst I found on photobucket the other week, posted it in another thread already but we can see it once again… :drool

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/1959_Les_Paul/

Cheers POA :BEER

Thanks but I meant pics of the mysterious burst this thread was started about! :RoCkIn

Geetarpicker
03-01-2007, 12:49 PM
With the help of my dad and a few relatives we uncovered an original early '59 one owner burst a couple years ago. Talked to the original owner myself. These guitars are out there, but most leads like this turn out to be 70s guitars. All that said, your best chances are with leads of guitars bought long ago such as this. Keep us posted, and DO NOT sell until you get it researched VERY carefully.

trisonic
03-01-2007, 12:53 PM
Yes I tend to view these stories of old Les Pauls found under beds with severe pessimism but sometimes they are fun to follow through on!

Best, Pete.

Drew816
03-01-2007, 01:15 PM
WOW!!! I can't wait to see some pictures. Once appraised and a deal made by the current owner with Gruhn or whomever you all ought to inform the local newspaper for a 'local interest' story; your name and shop will be in the paper and all KINDS of guitars will come flying in your door! Sure 98% of them will not be worth a damn, but in this day and age I never thought I'd hear a story like THIS again; amazing!

drbob1
03-01-2007, 01:24 PM
The last copy I'm aware of was made by Gustaffson in Sweden? The motivations of the guy that had it made aren't entirely clear, but it was good enough to fool at least one vintage dealer. Mr. G is a true craftsman and I believe has made it clear that he'll never do another.

zensurfer
03-02-2007, 09:49 AM
So...gregovertone, any updates yet?

Andy J.
03-02-2007, 10:39 AM
I love this thread... :munch

daddyo
03-02-2007, 10:49 AM
drum roll . . . drum roll . . .

choppermn
03-02-2007, 10:53 AM
reminds me of a how some old man has this car in his barn, and it turns out to be a mint packard or old caddy. seeing them serial numbers made me wonder wow this may be for real:BEER

marko
03-02-2007, 11:24 AM
about 1 1/2 year ago my wife's cousin was visiting us from out of state. she saw my telecaster and told me she had a real "burst" back home!! it was her dead uncle's old les paul and a big amp that has tubes like old tv's. she starts describing the lp as having 2 pickups and has a sunburst finish. she said a music store tried to buy it on the spot recently too. by now i am about to have a nervous breakdown. i showed her a photo of a LP and she says her burst looks just like that except it looks worn and older. i tell her it could be worth over $150k and more. so, i told her when she gets back home to call me with the guitar in hand. she calls me the next week, or i call her as I am beside myself anyway about this.

guess what it was........







she described 1953 LP goldtop with trapez.....still good but not the burst she thought she had. :eek:

Drew816
03-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Hey Marko, a '53 Les Paul with a trapez may not be a '59 Burst but it beats it turning out to be a Hondo! ;-) What did the amp turn out to be?

I had a '54 Les Paul Gold Top in my possession for a while back in the early 90's, I was working a deal on the guitar when the owner called me and told me to bring it back as it was sold. I said, dude, I thought we were working a deal; he said the guy walked it with $3500 cash and sat it on the counter; I was offering like $1500 (the guitar was a true relic before these were in fashion, it weren't pretty but I could have cared less!). Well the new owner and his then 'crazy' $3500 investment turned out to be the smart one after all; in 1991 we thought he was nuts! And MAN was that guitar awesome, I was SOOOO close, ugh... Then there was the refin'ed '62 Strat for $2600, ok, I'm making myself sick now...

So Marko, if your cousin is interested in $1500 for that Les Paul, let me know! :munch

gregovertone
03-02-2007, 03:26 PM
pics:) (http://web.mac.com/gregovertone/iWeb/Site/59%20lp.html)
http://web.mac.com/gregovertone/iWeb/Site/59%20lp_files/001_1.jpg

pfflam
03-02-2007, 03:32 PM
Well . . . I guess I could live with that . .

LHakim
03-02-2007, 03:35 PM
Wow...

blueroommusic
03-02-2007, 03:39 PM
WOW! :RoCkIn Looks good to me!

darkgable
03-02-2007, 03:50 PM
What a find . Are you going to buy/get it? :RoCkIn I'd say its worth at least 300K , if its all there. Looks like its in very nice shape also. :BEER :drool

Steve Hotra
03-02-2007, 03:52 PM
oh my...
that's pretty sweet!

zensurfer
03-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Looks good so far!


http://web.mac.com/gregovertone/iWeb/Site/59%20lp_files/002_2.jpg



Any cavity shots (neck pickup route and control cavity)?

gregovertone
03-02-2007, 03:58 PM
am i getting it?
ha...

not on a lowly guitar teacher salary.

;)

i told him to hold on to it. sell it when he retires......

or, retire early ;)

maybe we can request for only famous guitar players to buy it.....first eric johnson.....then billy gibbons.....etc......i'll meet my idols ;)

great story, eh?
man, i'm jealous.

P90Nut
03-02-2007, 04:04 PM
My old '60 had a really thin, almost Jackson like neck. It sounded awesome, but that neck...

My old 1962 Les Paul Jr. had a very substantial neck. It was also very light. Man could that git scream!
Mark

jackaroo
03-02-2007, 04:23 PM
Wow.

WahmBoomAh
03-02-2007, 04:34 PM
part it out ! I`ll give you 180 bucks for a potentiometer .

GuitarsFromMars
03-02-2007, 05:05 PM
am i getting it?
ha...

not on a lowly guitar teacher salary.

;)

i told him to hold on to it. sell it when he retires......

or, retire early ;)

maybe we can request for only famous guitar players to buy it.....first eric johnson.....then billy gibbons.....etc......i'll meet my idols ;)

great story, eh?
man, i'm jealous.

Yeah......but what a STORY to tell the boys at the guitar store...:cool:

gregovertone
03-02-2007, 05:06 PM
self employed ;)

but believe you me, i have been telling everyone and their brother at the 2 shops i've been to this week.

GuitarsFromMars
03-02-2007, 05:09 PM
self employed ;)

but believe you me, i have been telling everyone and their brother at the 2 shops i've been to this week.

Greg....nowLMAO:cool:

Crunchyriff
03-02-2007, 05:39 PM
The pessimists can go chew on their tongues over this one eh??

When I hear stories like this I NEVER shoot them down before they are sussed out. It's a 50/50 change it's legit (or not). You'd be surprised at how often there ARE under the bed classics stashed.

I know of one Fender (and while no 'burst) it's a pristine, unblemished guitar with and equally clean case. Candy Red with a white racing stripe. It was lightly noodled on here and there, but there is NO fretwear on it. As mint as you can get for a '65 Fender.

They ARE out there...

Geetarpicker
03-02-2007, 05:46 PM
Congrats on the find! I love the top on that one. I too am a guitar teacher, and I also found a one owner '59 burst (with the help of some relatives too) about 3 years ago. I also couldn't afford it, though I had first dibs but eventually passed it onto a LP forum member who did buy it. However it was very cool to be the first to investigate that guitar, and compare it to the '59 LP I luckily bought in '78 and still have but that's another story. I felt good that in the end I helped the original owner get fair market value at the time, though the guy was a lawyer and didn't really need the cash. The one I found was in similar condition, though it had an added Bigsby that has now been very professionally made to "go away". The original owner even trusted me to check the guitar out for the weekend to do my comparisons to mine, even though he knew it was a 6 digit guitar. Nice guy, and I still keep in touch with him.

plaintop
03-02-2007, 05:51 PM
Awesome! What a beautiful 'burst. This was an incredible find. Thanks so much for sharing!

frank62
03-02-2007, 05:53 PM
Beautiful story. Beautiful Les Paul!!!

Izy
03-02-2007, 06:44 PM
Wow!!

What a find!!

I wish one day, i'll get a chance to hold and play one. (not likely huh??)

Cpt.Kaos
03-02-2007, 06:47 PM
Just caught up with this thread...But the funniest comment was the guy a few pages back that stated "He did'nt buy it"....Whats funny is that he should have stated "He could'nt buy it" !!! just a thought...happy for the owner.........Cpt.Kaos

plaintop
03-02-2007, 07:42 PM
You might want to suggest to the owner to have the tuners repaired (or a usable set installed), and then to string up the guitar to standard tuning (a good setup would be a bonus). This will keep the neck in better condition long-term as it's designed to recieve constant string tension.

KingOfStomp
03-02-2007, 08:31 PM
Amazing thread! What a story, what a guitar!

MVrider
03-02-2007, 08:41 PM
Get it insured. YESTERDAY!

Notes
03-02-2007, 09:23 PM
N_i_c_e ! That´s the TGP LP ´59.

Notes
03-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Curious. I was just reading this in Dave Gregory´s (XTC) website:

"Around 1.700 were produced over the following two and a half years, but many remained unsold and the model was re-designed with a new look for 1961, as the SG Les Paul. It would take a young musician from Surrey, England to resurrect this dorman beast and reveal its splendour to an expectant audience"

And look at them now.

gregovertone
03-02-2007, 11:31 PM
it is a cool story.

the guitar was insured as of weds morning. no worries.

crosse79
03-03-2007, 12:53 AM
Yeah, it was nice of you to do that. A number of people would have taken advantage of the situation.

jcs
03-03-2007, 01:10 AM
gregovertone, what a standup guy you are man!

congrats!

wish i would have bought that princeton from you several months back..

i helped uncover a 55 les paul jr about 5 years ago and stumbled upon my 65 sg special out of the blue as well, what a feeling!

when i was a kid (early 1960s) my mom took me and my bros and sis to jenkins music in kansas city frequently,she and her sisters taught piano and bought all their sheet music there..

my middle bro remembers seeing several gold tops hanging there, i remember the hammond b3s with the leslies especially (i was only 5-6)..

one of the 3 lefty bursts ever produced was ordered and purchased at jenkins in 1960..

anyway congrats!

John Phillips
03-03-2007, 02:43 AM
You might want to suggest to the owner to have the tuners repaired (or a usable set installed), and then to string up the guitar to standard tuning (a good setup would be a bonus). This will keep the neck in better condition long-term as it's designed to recieve constant string tension.
No, don't do that! - not yet, anyway. Once (and if) the owner has decided to keep it, yes. But if it's going to be sold, the best way of preserving its short-term value is to leave it untouched. Originality is a critical factor, and if you're unlucky and snap a tuner screw - not impossible, given that it may have suffered minor corrosion in storage - or even imprint the wood with a different set of tuners, no matter how similar they may appear - you will compromise its value and desirability. Yes, I know that to most of us this seems crazy - it's a great musical instrument, and deserves to be played (and I think so too) - but the reality is that the market doesn't agree, and the amounts of money involved here are too big to just 'try it'.

If it's been unstrung for a long time, you don't want to do anything too sudden regarding tension and a set-up either.


A couple of years ago I restored a '72 LE Les Paul Custom (basically a reissue of a '54, which may or may not have incorporated left-over 1950s parts) that had been left unstrung in a loft since about the mid-80s. Unfortunately it had been left with the truss rod fully tightened, as they usually are - many people think that it's good to detune a guitar for storage but forget about the truss rod...

The neck was badly back-bowed, and worse, when I moved the truss-rod nut to loosen it - gently, and having put a drop of oil on it - the end of the rod snapped off. In fact, it had cracked about three-quarters of the way through at some previous time, just at the back face of the nut... most of the break was rusted, with just a little bit of shiny new metal at one side where it had finally broken when I'd turned it. I was extremely lucky - that particular guitar had a very 'forward' truss-rod cavity, and I was able to remove the D-plate, recess it about 1/4" further into the neck, and refit everything so the repair was totally invisible, even with the cover off. Even after that it took three months for the neck to settle down to the point it could be set up properly.

In fact, there would have been no way of saving the broken rod anyway, so I don't feel bad about it (either breaking it or modifying the guitar slightly to fix it, since the only alternative would have been to take the fingerboard off and fit a new rod), but it shows the potential dangers of working on old guitars...

drbob1
03-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Beautiful guitar, heartwarming story!

bert
03-03-2007, 07:52 AM
last year I was in a music store over here in Belgium (i'm not gonna name wich store), i was talking to the guy who's in charge of the guitar dep. and in walks a guy with a guitar wrapped in a plastic cover....
we went over to this guy and this person wanted his guitar checked out 'cause there was someting broken off (turned to be the tremolo bar) and put on some new strings and have it setup again 'cause the guitar was laying under the bed for years, and his son wanted to start playing guitar....
so this guy takes the guitar out of the plastic covering and out comes a mint sunburst strat.. as far as I could tell it had to be a '62 or '63.

the person told us he bought it from another person in the '70ties in Brussels, played it a while and then it went under the bed...

the salesguy told this person it was a valuable instrument and it would be better to buy the son a cheap guitar so he could learn to play guitar and
later on maybe play this magnificant Strat, the owner then ask what the valua would be for this old Strat, sales guy said : well a few quit....

I then left.. when a few weeks later I was at the store again I asked the guitar sales guy how this story ended ? he told me they fixed the guitar but it wasn't a good sounding one, and the owner picked it up and went home with it... end of story.

now ; 2 weeks ago I was back in that store and the sales guy told me watch his personal collection guitars on a CD'Rom he had with him, a few Custom Shop and Historics passed by... and then there was this '63 sunburst Strat !!!!! so I asked wasn't that the one that entered the store a year ago ??? he went all red and closed down his computer....
I asked how much he payed for it, but didn't get an answer. !!

poolah
03-03-2007, 08:31 AM
Man, this thread made me run upstairs and look under my bed, but all I found was a bunch of dust bunnies...

CharlieS
03-03-2007, 08:37 AM
now ; 2 weeks ago I was back in that store and the sales guy told me watch his personal collection guitars on a CD'Rom he had with him, a few Custom Shop and Historics passed by... and then there was this '63 sunburst Strat !!!!! so I asked wasn't that the one that entered the store a year ago ??? he went all red and closed down his computer....
I asked how much he payed for it, but didn't get an answer. !!


You pricked the guy's conscience. He'll never really enjoy that guitar because of what he likely did to get it.

bert
03-03-2007, 09:00 AM
You pricked the guy's conscience. He'll never really enjoy that guitar because of what he likely did to get it.


I pricked the prick's conscience indeed !! :)

radialaced
03-03-2007, 09:47 AM
You might want to suggest to the owner to have the tuners repaired (or a usable set installed), and then to string up the guitar to standard tuning (a good setup would be a bonus). This will keep the neck in better condition long-term as it's designed to recieve constant string tension.


With all due respect to you as a person Plaintop, your advice to change the tuners is really, really wrong.

Changing any parts on that guitar would be a big mistake.

daddyo
03-03-2007, 11:05 AM
That's a great guitar. It's nice to see one of these stories become reality.

GuitarsFromMars
03-03-2007, 11:25 AM
You pricked the guy's conscience. He'll never really enjoy that guitar because of what he likely did to get it.

I'm with you Charlie...I had been 'gifted' a very unique 1949 Martin 0-15,that had been owned by a fella who was at Criteria/Atlantic South in the late 60's early 70's.A lot of fairly famous people played the guitar(yes,you can even use your imagination,because most of them did).She 'gave' me the guitar and wanted it back when the relationship was over.I took a consensus and ended up giving it back,even with her not being a musician,and having spent a bundle to get a hardshell case made for it, multiple trips to the luthier,for neck reset and broken rose wood on the guitar.2 weeks after I gave it back,my roommate at the time walked in the door Sat nite/Sun morning,and asked if I wanted ANOTHER Martin 0-15...long story short,I got another Martin 0-15 (1959) at a ridiculous price(sold due to a baby on the way),and in 9/10 condition.Karma will get the bastid who grabbed that Fender.

:cool:

Drew816
03-03-2007, 11:38 AM
HOLY $HIT-ski, that thing is AMAZING!!! If he can afford to insure it and has a safe place to store it he 'could' sit on the investment, but MAN I'd sell that sucker so fast it would make your head spin! Why, one minor house disaster or someone breaks into the house and there goes your retirement fund (unless insured and I would suspect that would be an expensive policy!). Plus you'd want the guitar to be stored correctly, etc.

WOW, that is absolutely amazing; $300k easy but I'll bet she goes for me as that thing looks MINT!

Thanks for finally getting pictures, and hopefully these guys will give you some kind of 'finders fee' for helping them out. Hey, a simple 'reissue' Jimmy Page Les Paul would do, right?!? ;-)

So is that guitar heading to George Gruhn for evaluation or what? What's the owner's intention at this stage? Document the hell out of it for sure, just make sure the owner doesn't tell anyone where he lives! ;-)

ssdeluxe
03-03-2007, 03:15 PM
in a world of fraudulent cyberness everywhere, its nice to hear an amazing story, and what a great person you are to help a friend ! karma most definately is bigger than any worldly possesion.

what a guitar ! amazing.

Geetarpicker
03-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Yep, it makes the most sense to let the tuners sit as they are. It makes the guitar's authenticity even more guaranteed. However if it were me I retip them with Lou's tips, as I did to mine just recently. If it were mine I'd at least want to play it.

You could ever so delicately try turning a screw on the tuners to see if they can be removed, albiet only if they turn really easily. The screws might even be a little loose, as in the winter the wood dries a bit.

Still, if the guitar is to be sold anytime soon it's probably an issue best left for the next owner.

sundaypunch
03-03-2007, 05:38 PM
I would still bet that whoever buys it will want to string it up to pitch, ensure the truss rod works, etc. A broken truss rod or bow in the neck has an impact on the price of a guitar like this.

My guess is that you could throw a set of strings on this thing and it would play beautifully with little or no adjustment.

esoteric pete
03-03-2007, 05:42 PM
i read through this whole thread and when i got to the pics i screamed out loud!!

i dont like my R8 as much as i did 10 min. ago! damn, what a nice story greg, thanks!

gregovertone
04-23-2007, 06:19 PM
i received word today that the guitar was appraised for $280k.

it would appear that the owner may be looking to sell, as he rarely plays guitar, and surely wouldn't play on this. :)

that's the update to the coolest guitar story i've ever been around ;)

paintguy
04-23-2007, 08:23 PM
i read through this whole thread and when i got to the pics i screamed out loud!!

i dont like my R8 as much as i did 10 min. ago! damn, what a nice story greg, thanks!

I hear ya Pete.

Awesome, awesome story!!!

AndrewSimon
04-23-2007, 09:48 PM
Wow $280k for that beat up ugly thing.....
OK I am joking but seriously that amount is just crazy.... unless you are a millionaire of course.

:crazyguy

stevieboy
04-23-2007, 09:53 PM
i received word today that the guitar was appraised for $280k.

it would appear that the owner may be looking to sell, as he rarely plays guitar, and surely wouldn't play on this. :)


I'd be looking to sell too, and I play guitar every chance I get! (I would play it a few times first though.)

BoostAddict
04-23-2007, 10:00 PM
DAMN that thing is nice. I don't really read long threads until I see pics. Saw the pics and read the WHOLE thing.

Reminds me of a story. My parents owned a Donut shop that we just sold a month ago. There's this customer that I know really well and 2 months before we sold, I had a guitar shipped there while he was there. He saw my guitar package and asked if I played or not. Of course I answered with a yes, and he asks if I want to buy a couple electric guitars his father used to own but left to him when he passed away. The customer I talked to was around 50-60 years old and his dad was the owner so that guitar HAD to be vintage. I told him I wanted to see, to show it to me. I also told him that if they're old vintage guitars, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it but would help him find the value of it. I waited and waited but he never brought the guitars, because he said that he didn't want to know the values of them because they're his fathers and wants to keep it.

I understood that, but damnit I wanted to see and play a vintage guitar so bad. I brought my amp to the shop everyday after that hoping he would bring it so I could play it.

Now the shops sold and I no longer work there...

Drew816
04-24-2007, 05:44 AM
$280k, wow, just hanging out under grandpa's bed; amazing story. I wish them well with the sale and I hope it goes to a collection where it can be seen since at that kind of money it's not likely to be played! Thanks again for sharing...

Dr. Tweedbucket
04-24-2007, 06:07 AM
I'm afraid I'd have to offer to give the friend lessons, then tell him that POS guitar is what's holding him back.

Here, take mine, and I'll just throw that one away for ya.

Then phone him from the bahamas to cancel our next few lessons. :Devil :Devil

Dr. Tweedbucket
04-24-2007, 06:27 AM
i received word today that the guitar was appraised for $280k.

it would appear that the owner may be looking to sell, as he rarely plays guitar, and surely wouldn't play on this. :)

that's the update to the coolest guitar story i've ever been around ;)


Nice!! Great story, thanks for sharing it.

GuitarsFromMars
04-24-2007, 08:43 AM
i received word today that the guitar was appraised for $280k.

it would appear that the owner may be looking to sell, as he rarely plays guitar, and surely wouldn't play on this. :)

that's the update to the coolest guitar story i've ever been around ;)

Nice ending to a great find,Greg...I figured the estimated value was going to be near,or at 300K$...thanks again for sharing the story.

:munch ;)

otterpop
04-24-2007, 09:07 AM
This has gotta be one of the coolest stories I've come across recently. Kudos to you, gregovertone for giving the guy some good direction. If I came across this, I would pay off my mortgage, go house shopping, and a nice vacation, after attending a couple of '59 burst owner's club meetings.

Sharkey
04-24-2007, 12:22 PM
Great story Gregovertone:AOK

An old friend of mine found this SG JR at a yard sale last Saturday along with a fender deluxe reverb that was in really bad shape. There is still a lot of Vintage stuff out there. This appears to be a 70 's SG Jr but we are still not clear of the year or what it's worth. It's not a 59 but a great find non the less. Why can't I find yard sales like this? :D

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00561.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00562.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00548.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00560.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00539.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00543.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/SG%20Junior/DSC00545.jpg

John Phillips
04-24-2007, 04:02 PM
An old friend of mine found this SG JR at a yard sale last Saturday along with a fender deluxe reverb that was in really bad shape. There is still a lot of Vintage stuff out there. This appears to be a 70 's SG Jr but we are still not clear of the year
'68 or '69 I think - large pickguard but no 'Made In USA' stamp below the serial number.

Changed tuners, but at least no oversized holes drilled through the head :).

Sharkey
04-24-2007, 06:41 PM
Hey John, Thanks
http://www.everythingsg.com/catalogs/1970%20SG%20Junior.jpg
This one looks like his to me and I think these tuners are original. How can I be sure? I think the #s for this time period are a little screwey:confused:



'68 or '69 I think - large pickguard but no 'Made In USA' stamp below the serial number.

Changed tuners, but at least no oversized holes drilled through the head :).

John Phillips
04-25-2007, 02:16 AM
Hey John, Thanks
http://www.everythingsg.com/catalogs/1970%20SG%20Junior.jpg
This one looks like his to me and I think these tuners are original. How can I be sure? I think the #s for this time period are a little screwey:confused:I'm pretty sure the tuners are modern - the old ones would have been 3-on-a-strip too, but plainer looking, with covers over the gears, and white plastic buttons - if you take those off you should find some extra screw holes since the top screw on the originals would have been closer to the end of the headstock. The good news is that you can buy repros of the correct type now, so putting it right is easy - and any extra screw holes can be filled and will be completely covered by the heads:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Vintage-style_3-on-Plate_Tuners.html

The serial numbers for this time are pretty random, but the '68-'69 time frame is right - the wide pickguard came in around late '67 and the 'Made In USA' stamp was added in early 1970. I'm assuming it doesn't have a volute (raised ridge on the back of the neck behind the nut) which also started in 1970. If it does have the volute it's an early '70.

You can get a more accurate date if the pots are original and the backs are not completely obscured by solder - they're date-coded, the number you're looking for is 137yyww, where 137 is the manufacturer code for CTS, yy is the year and ww the week of manufacture (of the pot) - obviously the guitar can't be earlier than this, and is usually a few weeks or months later.

(There are some exceptions to this, eg Fender between 1966 and 1970, where they vastly over-ordered pots, and took years to use them up - many 1967-70 Fenders have 1966 pots.)

crosse79
04-25-2007, 03:06 AM
Man, this thread made me run upstairs and look under my bed, but all I found was a bunch of dust bunnies...

LOL

sumlin
06-24-2007, 04:54 PM
Wow, I just read this thread for the first time. Great story.

A friend of mine lived in LA in the 80s (he shared a house with Axl Rose pre-GnR-becoming-huge and ended up playing on the demos for Use Yr Illusion, bizarrely, but that's a different story) and a non-guitarist friend of his found a guitar case in a dumpster and, knowing my friend was a guitarist he gave him it.

Turned out to be a late 50s Goldtop with humbuckers. He took it round all the music shops in the area trying to find out if it was stolen or what the deal was with it and all any of them wanted to do was buy it from him so he ended up keeping it.

Here it is, being dissected on a kitchen table:

http://www.dogntank.com/images/fullsize/14.jpg

Clam
06-24-2007, 05:42 PM
Looks like Lou Reed's getting ready to stab that goldtop, maybe the Joker will stop him......

frank62
06-24-2007, 05:51 PM
^hah, i thought it was Gary Moore. Cool story. I have seen some strange stuff in dumpsters but never any goldtops.

snarkle
06-24-2007, 06:09 PM
http://www.dogntank.com/images/fullsize/14.jpg


Just another relicing session at the Art & Historic division...

scottlr
06-24-2007, 06:33 PM
pics:) (http://web.mac.com/gregovertone/iWeb/Site/59%20lp.html)
http://web.mac.com/gregovertone/iWeb/Site/59%20lp_files/001_1.jpg

MERCY!!! :AOK

mingo
08-25-2009, 06:48 AM
interesting story....i'm a little late coming into this, but thought i see about an update.

did it ever sell?

Vibrolucky
08-28-2009, 11:40 PM
About 5 years ago in Macon, GA, I was called by a friend of a friend who had just received a Sunburst 1959 Les Paul from his grandfather. He wanted to know what it was REALLY worth as several people told him it was worth over $200,000. I was so excited to see the guitar I could not sleep the night before. The next morning I woke up and drove to their house and was let down BIG TIME when I saw the small alligator case. It was a 59 Sunburst Les Paul JUNIOR. It was in terrible condition and needed more work done than it was worth honestly. Headstock broken and repaired incorrectly, changed tuners, frets worn down to wood, huge divits in fretboard, no pickguard, no bridge, and badly needed a neckset - it was warped beyond anything I'd ever seen.

Turns out it was in the basement of their house during the 100 year flood that happened in 1994 in Middle GA. It got a little wet....:jo

RectoGriz
08-29-2009, 12:13 AM
Wow! Just WOW!

Ayrton
08-29-2009, 10:40 AM
I will add another story...

A friend who works in guitar repair locally called me one day to tell me about the guy who came in with an "old guitar" that he wanted new strings on it so his young daughter could learn the guitar.

Upon opening the case, my friend was staring at a '50's gold top, and then went on to explain to the "Dad" exactly what he had.

That guitar turned into her college fund.

Groovey Records
08-29-2009, 10:43 AM
I would have walked him home and offered him a year of free lesson in exchange for a %

brentrocks
08-29-2009, 11:13 AM
WOW! i totally missed this story...that is a great turn of events!