A question about the neck pocket

[dead of night]

Hi. I have a tele styled, small luthier guitar but I don't want to give the brand right now because of the nature of my post. This guitar plays well but I have a question about the neck pocket on this guitar. On the bass side, there is a very tiny gap. Is my guitar defective? Must all neck pockets have absoulutely no room at all between the wood?

[Jon Silberman]

I've said this before and I'll say it again now. The modulus of the body neck connection is primarily through the connection of the back of the neck to the top of the body. You look at a gaggle of old Fender Teles and Strats, the ones going for tens of thousands of dollars today, and almost all have neck pocket gaps. And it makes no difference to their tone. The attention - indeed, fixation would be more accurate - on perfect neck pockets today is one-half attempting to use the neck pocket specs as a surrogate for overall attention to detail/quality and the other half a mix of ignorance and wishful thinking.

If you had a quarter inch gap, that's one thing. It still likely would have no significant impact on the tone/sustain but one that big would bug me, too. On the other hand, "a very tiny gap" (your words) along the lines of a business card in width is not worth the electrons to type about and I would respectfully suggest you find something else about the axe to obsess over! :)

[dead of night]

Thanks for the insightful post, Jon, I'd love all other thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Another question, when lifting the guitar out of the case, must one be careful to grab it by the neck and body, instead of by the neck alone, in order to not shift the neck out of place?

[Karmateria]

The modulus of the body neck connection is primarily through the connection of the back of the neck to the top of the body. :)

With all due respect, the key word in your statement is "primary".

While I'd agree that the majority of the transfer occurs there, it is mostly because of the direction of the force holding the two parts directly together. After that, a gap is a gap. That doesn't mean that a tifgter fit doesn't make any difference, maybe it's too small to notice. Maybe it would actually lessen the "bolt on" vibe by creating too much resonance/sustain when F-style guitars are characterized by snap and twang.

I'd love to see real numbers... actual, scientific measurement of the percentage of energy transfer produced by a tight-wedged fit vs a gapped fit.

On the issue of whether or not it makes a difference to me... I don't care. My Tele has a huge gap on the bass side, and it sounds fantastic to me. If I want swell, bloom and sustain I pick up my Gibson or my Hamer.

[VaughnC]

Thanks for the insightful post, Jon, I'd love all other thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Another question, when lifting the guitar out of the case, must one be careful to grab it by the neck and body, instead of by the neck alone, in order to not shift the neck out of place?

I agree with Jon. While a neck pocket gap may reflect the craftsmanship of the builder, it has little, if any, affect on the tone of a Fender. I've actually played Fender's that had nearly a 1/4" neck pocket gap that sounded better than one's with a near perfect neck pocket....so some Fender's just seem to have "it" no matter what. And, actually, a little neck pocket gap is beneficial for centering the strings on the fretboard.

If the neck screws are tight, under normal "non-Hendrix" handling, a Fender neck shouldn't move in the neck pocket....so picking one up by its neck shouldn't make any difference.

[larry1096]

People don't seem to get the physics of this-if there's ANY gap (i.e., air can pass) then there is no transmission through the adjoining components. And almost every neck joint will have some minuscule gap, if only to allow the neck to go in and out without chipping wood. And once there's any gap, it doesn't matter how large.

IMHO, of course, but I'd like to see it disproved.


Larry

[Jack Briggs]

Yep, so in essence - if you had absolutely no gap (to speak of or see) you'd have the maximum available area for tone transfer. Would you hear this difference? That's the 64 million dollar question! Some can (or say they can), some can't.

Personally, I feel if you can pass more than a piece of writing paper between neck and pocket - it's too much gap.

[larry1096]

Yep, so in essence - if you had absolutely no gap (to speak of or see) you'd have the maximum available area for tone transfer. Would you hear this difference? That's the 64 million dollar question! Some can (or say they can), some can't.

Personally, I feel if you can pass more than a piece of writing paper between neck and pocket - it's too much gap.

I'm thinking that the parts would need to be in HARD contact-i.e., under compression, for tonal transfer to really result. Even a micro gap is a GAP, and wouldn't transfer energy, right?

I suspect that any part not actually glued/screwed/fastened to another doesn't transfer much tone, but I've no way to support that.


Larry

[Joe Naylor]

Larry and Jon are correct. How well the neck is secured to the bottom of the pocket would be the most significant factor effecting tone.

A tight fitting pocket is less prone to neck shifting. But it's more prone to causing paint cracks in the body, and sometimes wood cracks .

A slight gap allows fine-tuning of the string alignment. Some players prefer the high E aligned further in from the fretboard edge to facilitate wide finger vibrato. If properly mounted, a pocket with a gap wil not have shifting problems.

[Vince]

I'm thinking that the parts would need to be in HARD contact-i.e., under compression, for tonal transfer to really result. Even a micro gap is a GAP, and wouldn't transfer energy, right?

I suspect that any part not actually glued/screwed/fastened to another doesn't transfer much tone, but I've no way to support that.

Larry

Yep, gap is gap. If it's .001, it may as well be 100 miles as far as those two surfaces transferring vibration.

There are a jillion variables that make the magic when it comes to the mating of parts and the resultant tone. My job as a builder to is to be able to predict and build in tone, so that means I want to remove as many of those variables as I can. I don't really like gaps all the way around a neck in a pocket, which would be one way to make it consistant, so I make them so tight I need vaseline to fit the neck, no kidding. I also cheat the placement of the neck screw holes on the neck away from the butt to work with the linear pull of the strings to force the neck closer to the neck pocket butt on the body.
The amount of pressure where the butts of the neck and neck pocket meet are only second to the surfaces held by the neck screws. The transferrance at the sides is minimal in comparison, even with the tightest joint, as there is no directional pressure there.

[Jerrod]

Most of the responses here should automagically be posted every week when someone asks this question.