Preamp vs Control Surface

[zzmoore]

This will be my first purchase for home recording. Is it mostly a matter of convenience. There certainly is a cost issue. I am looking at something like a Presonus Firepod ($500.00) as compared to a Mackie Onyx 1640 ($1,400.00). Will the Mackie control the recording software in the computer? Of course for that kind of money I could get the RME Fireface 800. I do not know if one piece of equipment is better quality than another. Your opinions and experience would be much appreciated. I am using Windows XP.
Thank You

[Jo]

I've got a Firepod and use a Behringer BF-2000 controller for the software (Sonar). It emulates the Mackie Universal controller and is a whole lot cheaper too.
You may want to consider that for another option if you want to be able to control the software with external faders.

[Denyle_Guitars]

The Onyx 1640 offers a lot above and beyond the Firepod. You get twice the number of preamps, so it's like buying two Firepods. Do you need the use of 16 preamps at once? AFAIK, it does not function as a daw control surface, however, it does give you routing for hardware fx, plus tactile control for eq, faders, etc. If you have or will have a lot of outboard, the Onyx might be a good call. If you're looking for some hi-tech moving fader gadgetry, look elsewhere.

[zzmoore]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess I should be looking at some type of control surface. The ability to control the software from a "mixer" seems like a good idea, but then again I really do not know. A lot of you guys use a preamp interface and then control everything with a mouse and keyboard. I suppose you get accustom to it over time. What has it been like to trade your mixers for keyboards and mice? Do you regret not having knobs and faders to put your hands on?
Thanks Again

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

i've never used this, but it looks worth investigating:

http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/product_pics/big/projectmix_io.jpg

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html

seems a reasonable price for a control surface w/ 8 built in mic pres, etc.

What has it been like to trade your mixers for keyboards and mice?

dunno. i went right from a large format console to mackie control surfaces and high end mic pres. i can't imaging trying to work w/ only a mouse and computer keyboard.

[jayhawk]

i've never used this, but it looks worth investigating:

http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/product_pics/big/projectmix_io.jpg

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html



That looks like a great unit; I really like the various features...but...M-Audio is notorious for having the worst drivers of all the major audio equipment makers. I'd triple check out that unit and thoroughly investigate all reviews before buying it.

[fearhk213]

Tascam has the FW1082 and FW1884 that are definately worth looking into.

[cochese]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess I should be looking at some type of control surface. The ability to control the software from a "mixer" seems like a good idea, but then again I really do not know. A lot of you guys use a preamp interface and then control everything with a mouse and keyboard. I suppose you get accustom to it over time. What has it been like to trade your mixers for keyboards and mice? Do you regret not having knobs and faders to put your hands on?
Thanks Again

I still kept my mixer. I use a Motu 828 interface with my DAW and have the outs routed to my Mackie mixer. You can go both routes with an external mixer plus use outboard effects and save your processor power. So many guys have chucked their mixers but most large studios still use them. I find it's just easier when tracking.

[Daedalus77]

Buy the unit with the best mic pres and the best converters, given how much you want to spend, and given how many inputs you need (based on how many inputs you'll be recording at once), and the DAW platform you'll be using. There are lots of options.

FORGET about having the control surface dimension at this point. A control surface, at the level of the projects you're doing, is, in my humble opinion, a luxury. FAR more important for the quality of your recordings is the quality of your mic pres (and mics and room) and, a distant second, your converters.

It's true that mixing with a mouse is different—and less "performance"—than having faders, but the "front-end" (mics, pres, conversion) is far, far more important (for the sound of your work) than the improved (or just different) workflow a control surface will give you.

My $.02. Best of luck.

[thesedaze]

If I were you, i'd go for the FireStudio instead of the FirePod. Also, at this point I would just look into something like the Frontier Design Alphatrack (I own one, and it's wonderful...I use it with a Firebox). It's a step up from the Presonus Faderport...

Allows for that console control, but one channel at a time. The realtime automation is a lifesaver. Being able to control EQ's and plugins with a rotary based knob is a lifesaver as well....Who likes making circles w/ a mouse just to turn a virtual knob? Certainly not me.

When the time comes, if you find you need to mix with all of the channels at once, the Mackie Control Universal is a great tool. Comes standard with 8 channels, but is expandable w/ their add on units.

[-momo-]

Ergonomic considerations aside, good recording software provides full-featured console functionality, total automation and project recall of every setting - I simply can't afford the hardware equivalent of all that, so I'm a software guy. I use Cubase 3 and my interface is a Focusrite Saffire Pro I/O 26, which has decent preamps and great latency. An Octopre is my next likely purchase, which will double my inputs.

For me, it's about bang for the buck and portability, and software mixing gives me both.

But consoles sure are sexy and the chicks dig 'em. :)

My $0.02

[edit]... and yes, if you wanna go multi-channel and stick with Presonus, go with the Firestudio... good kit, functionally on par with the Saffpro 26... [edit]

[Mickey_C]

If I were you, i'd go for the FireStudio instead of the FirePod. Also, at this point I would just look into something like the Frontier Design Alphatrack (I own one, and it's wonderful...I use it with a Firebox). It's a step up from the Presonus Faderport...

Allows for that console control, but one channel at a time. The realtime automation is a lifesaver. Being able to control EQ's and plugins with a rotary based knob is a lifesaver as well....Who likes making circles w/ a mouse just to turn a virtual knob? Certainly not me.

When the time comes, if you find you need to mix with all of the channels at once, the Mackie Control Universal is a great tool. Comes standard with 8 channels, but is expandable w/ their add on units.

Four months late, but at last I am on board with this.

A number of folks gave up waiting on PreSonus to write a bundle for Cubase 4 to use the FaderPort. I bought mine in February, been waiting all this time. Well, I threw in the towel after reading that it's not happening... and I should go get the alpha track.

Guitar Center in Tempe was UberSuperCool... they actually did a straight exchange tonight for the Alpha Tracks... it worked right out of the box!

Super cool... sorry I didn't have the advice then. If you're on Cubase 4 studio or AMS forget about the Faderpor, and go for the Frontier Alpha Tracks. It works with the drivers right out of the box (opening a project for the first time with the AT was cool... I glanced over and watched the motorized fader rise up to the channel volume in the project - yippe-kye-aye!).

[KungFuLio]

Back to your original thought in the subject line...

a control surface will be of little to no value in five years

a great preamp will maintain its value over several years

[Mickey_C]

5 year old prosumer electronics stuff is pretty worthless thanks to outdated drivers and lousier bit rates, etc. That's just my take on it. I admit I don't really know about prosumer gear from 5 years ago as I just started with computer recording a couple months ago. But in five years I am pretty sure my MOTU Traveler will be ready for the junk pile, or dang near. And I'll hopefully be out there shopping for 512K 96bit convertors for OSX 11.5.9 "Chipmunk" and Cubase 7.

Meanwhile, the transport control is pretty useful; definitely less adverse to a good performance than bending over and pointing a mouse to start recording, or advance/rewind the track, etc.

[vladshap]

And I'll hopefully be out there shopping for 512K 96bit convertors for OSX 11.5.9 "Chipmunk" and Cubase 7.

Don't you mean OS XI 11.5.9 :)

[enharmonic]

When I was faced with this same issue, I opted to go with the best preamp and converter that i could afford rather than a Yamaha DM1000, which would have given me a lot more bang for the buck...including a control surface for Cubase.

I'm still happy with my decision :)

[JZG]

Buy the unit with the best mic pres and the best converters, given how much you want to spend, and given how many inputs you need (based on how many inputs you'll be recording at once), and the DAW platform you'll be using. There are lots of options.

FORGET about having the control surface dimension at this point. A control surface, at the level of the projects you're doing, is, in my humble opinion, a luxury. FAR more important for the quality of your recordings is the quality of your mic pres (and mics and room) and, a distant second, your converters.

It's true that mixing with a mouse is different—and less "performance"—than having faders, but the "front-end" (mics, pres, conversion) is far, far more important (for the sound of your work) than the improved (or just different) workflow a control surface will give you.

My $.02. Best of luck.

Nicely said. Definitely invest as much as you can in a good mic pre. I've had a couple of different control surfaces in the past, but outside of the scroll wheel and a couple of buttons, they didn't really improve my efficiency. It was easier for me to find what I needed using a mouse, as opposed to looking for the right fader, button, etc.

[stvnscott]

I like to keep things as simple as possible and the signal chain as clean as possible.

By far, the most important parts of the system are the mic pres and the convertors (not including outboard gear like mics). I don't care for mixers, for example, because I never use most of the features like track EQ--they just get in my way and introduce noise into the signal path.

So I use a FireStudio slaved with a DigiMax FS to give me 16 mic pres and a bazillion line-in options. The pres are very quiet and transparent (better than MOTU and as good as or better than Mackie IMHO), and the convertors are better than the FirePod. I do everything else with the very robust mixer inside Sonar 6 Producer and plugins. I have some good outboard pres for when I want to do something special.

For small projects, you don't need a control surface. I just use a Frontier Tranzport to control Sonar's transport functions. It is a wireless device I can carry to the drum kit, vocal booth, or wherever to start/stop/punch in/undo recording operations with the touch of a few buttons. Very convenient, but falls far short of the functionality of the typical control surface.

[azimuth]

another vote for spending the $1500 on a great preamp over any sort of convenience based toy.

[Nomadgtr]

another vote for spending the $1500 on a great preamp over any sort of convenience based toy.

+1
My next addition to my home studio is either an A-Designs Pacifica or a Great River MP-2NV. I'd like to spend money on a console but I'd rather invest my limited funds in making my signal chain as good as possible.